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posts by Twayleph Auditor | joined 03 Jul 2004 | 114

posted 03 Jul 2004, 02:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Title by Twayleph, Auditor

Hey everyone :) Like other people I voted for the Thousandfold Thought, I think it really sounds mysterious, original and profound, like The Prince of Nothing is. I just finished The Warrior Prophet today and I can't wait for TTT... this series is some incredible work Scott, I can't thank you enough for bringing these books to our shelves! view post

posted 04 Oct 2004, 01:10 in Off-Topic DiscussionMindless Amusement: Type your Username with your elbows by Twayleph, Auditor

ty3wayulerph Ha...thought it would be worse :) view post

Another Maithanet Theory (possible spoiler) posted 15 Oct 2004, 03:10 in The Warrior ProphetAnother Maithanet Theory (possible spoiler) by Twayleph, Auditor

I noticed there were a lot of speculation about the identity of little-known characters such as Moënghus, Mallahet and Maithanet. Although both the "Moënghus = Mallahet = Maithanet" theory and the "Mainthanet belonging to the Consult" theory, were both very well-developped and plausible, I have a different explanation. We know very little about Maithanet, save that he is a lone man that, for some reason, travelled all the way from Nilnamesh and then set out to conquer the Thousand Temples like a storm, and then declared a Holy War to reconquer Shimeh. The big question is, why declare this Holy War? Maybe Maithanet is simply a Consult tool used to destroy the Cishaurim. But there are hints that in TWP that make it very hard to believe Maithanet is entirely evil (one being the part where he asks Proyas to aid Achamian). I'd like to draw a parallel to Cnaiür here; before he crossed the path of Moënghus, he was simply the son of a chieftain. But after his disastrous encounter with Moënghus, he was utterly transformed into the murderous and deranged warrior we know. What if something similar happened to Maithanet? Moënghus, for some reason, crosses Nilnamesh and decides to use a young Inirith adept, Maithanet, for his own purpose. After Moënghus leaves, Maithanet, like Cnaiür, sees past the Dûnyain deception and sets out to avenge himself. He quickly realizes, however, that Moënghus is heavily defended by the heaten Fanim. Yet Maithanet has his own strenght. Like Cnaiür, he grows powerful because of hatred of Moënghus; only instead of gaining furious strenght and talent in combat, he affinates his skill at inspiring devotion and obedience in other men (probably inspired by the Dûnyain manipulation techniques displayed by Moënghus). So what better way for him to avenge himself than by paying a visit to his Inirith brothers, using his newfound talent to become Shriah and asking them to destroy the heathen in Shimeh (and Moënghus with them)? That doesn't rule out the possibility of a Consult link; the Consult might have proven a great ally for Maithanet because of their common will to see Shimeh stormed. But I think there's more to Maithanet than merely a Consult tool (or even skin-spy). So there it is; sorry for the discouragingly long post and possible poor english. I'd very much like to hear for your comments, objections, assents... view post

posted 17 Oct 2004, 22:10 in Philosophy DiscussionOrigin of Morality by Twayleph, Auditor

I find your explanation on the origin of morality very impressive; in some way it relates to my own beliefs. But there are some parts of your argument that I can't seem to understand clearly. Per example, you state that morality is based on ungrounded beliefs and that these delusions are what allowed us to create a society of mutual trust. But how can you determine that it was these beliefs that allowed the creation of society, that ungrounded trust still keeps us together? You said the belief that, per example, our neighbours and society are trustworthy and won't trash our home when our back is turned, is what allows us to leave home. But reason also tells us we should leave home; otherwise we won't get to work, get money, get food, etc. Besides, the probability that a crime actually occurs when we're gone is very low. So how can you say it is not necessity and reason, instead of ungrounded beliefs, that guide our society? By the way, I'm not used to philosophical arguing, so my post may not make much sense, but I find this forum's philosophy section fascinating so here I try to join in! view post

French Edition of TDTCB posted 14 Jan 2005, 21:01 in Author Q & AFrench Edition of TDTCB by Twayleph, Auditor

Hi Scott, first I'd like to say how much I appreciate your Prince of Nothing series. The Darkness that Comes Before and The Warrior-Prophet both "clicked" for me in a way that I could never have imagined ; these are arguably the novels that I found the most captivating because of the characters, the world, the intricate storyline and the philosophical elements. I can't wait for the rest of the series ; keep up the good work and please don't mess up TTT, because I've already pre-ordered it :) My question concerns the French edition ; I've waited for it for a while because I was really looking forward to see what the translators would do to TDTCB (the title in particular is very hard to translate). Do you know when this edition will be available in USA or Canada ? I would've ordered it from France, but the overseas shipping is very costy. view post

posted 14 Jan 2005, 21:01 in Off-Topic DiscussionAnd now for something totally idiotic - BK v McDonalds by Twayleph, Auditor

I think you're talking about "poutine". I don't really like it but it is somewhat popular here. view post

posted 29 Jan 2005, 14:01 in Interviews and ReviewsFirst French Review - Help Wanted by Twayleph, Auditor

Well I live in Quebec and fluently speak French (or at least our version of French) and I'm not so bad at English either, so I can give it a shot. I'm not used to translation work and it won't be perfect - but at least I'm positive it'll be better than Google ;) view post

posted 29 Jan 2005, 15:01 in Interviews and ReviewsFirst French Review - Help Wanted by Twayleph, Auditor

I've done a sentence-per-sentence translation but it's as long and complicated as the original text, so I thought instead I'd give the essential idea of each paragraph and a translation of the last. First paragraph : a summary of the story, centered around Achamian and referring to some sort of quest for redemption. "Une nouvelle carte des Archétypes" : A praise to Scott's use of biblical Archetypes and his use of language to define the world, compares Scott to other great authors such as Steven Erikson, Martin, Hobb... "La magie et les rapports humains" : A praise to the way sorcery is dealt with in TDTCB ; both defining the society's structure and restricted by this same structure, also compliments the dialogues as very gripping and revealing. "Bakker l'historien" : A reference to the veracity added by the Nietzchean philosophy background and to the "antinomical" character of Khellus and Cnaiur. Also gives a reflection on Khellus as standing "in a place between light and dark, defined by his own kaleidoscopic point of view". "The imports Bakker’s first novel is a remarkable, thrilling and gripping work, thanks to his powerful historical view of [Eärwa]. He re-invented the process of writing the Holy Words and swept aside the impediments of trying to convice God must exist and the old conflicts of nature and culture, to restore the fundamental process of a Will that can create history, and plan a secret plot that courses through our collective subconscious (a common virtue of this new genre of Fantasy) so that, by the process of reviving biblical archetypes, a new story could rise with vivid characters that live outside the bounds of the storyline. We are left breath-taken by the beauty of this divine will, intricate in the beauty of the world and subtle enough not to transform this book into a mere copy of the Bible. The apocalyptic story, brilliantly coreographed by Bakker, is at long last a reminder of the fantasy writer’s charge and, moreover, of the reader’s work to grasp the hidden meanings of this genre. It depicts the modern tendancy of trying not to explain, but to self-explain, the meaning of the world. It is a subtle shift from the « outside » to the « inside », this withdrawal into ourselves which is necessary to witness a new world as would a child, and to transform the process of reading into a miracle. Bakker reminds us that our society cut itself off from the divine, only to embrace it again in much simpler ways, such as the scribbling of a plume or the convulsive slapping on a keyboard – a new prayer which is to self-explain a world amongst so many others, to deal with the unknown in a much more profound and sincere way. Perhaps this way is very much preferable to an absolute belief in a text written and spoken by men. This is what seperates a writer, creater of worlds, from a Rael who really believes what he writes – it is the difference between a pure work of imagination and reflections, and an absolutely absurd and totalitarian ideology. We witness here a work of Fantasy and a work on Fantasy, an inspiring work and a successful novel remarkably worthy of this genre." So, all in all, it's a very complimentary (if long-winded) review, mostly centered around the use of biblical Archetypes. Edit : At first I had only included the translation of the last paragraph but then I figured you may not want to depend on a Google translation for the rest of the text ! view post

posted 05 Feb 2005, 03:02 in The Warrior ProphetAnother Maithanet Theory (possible spoiler) by Twayleph, Auditor

As a reply to RevCasy's question : Why would Maithanet help Achamian? Yes, that's the big question...My theory does provide an answer: whereas the Holy War serves as a means to destroy the political and military power of Moenghus, by conquering Fanim lands and destroying the army that protects Shimeh, there is still the problem of taking care of Moenghus himself. There are the Chorae bowmen, but it's likely many of them will be destroyed during the War, and anyway as we've seen in TWP, a cunning and powerful sorcerer can find ways to deal with Chorae's. And Moenghus is a VERY cunning and VERY powerful sorcerer. As far as Maithanet knows (supposing he really doesn't know about Khellus), Achamian, the most powerful sorcerer within the Holy War, is the only man with a real shot at Moenghus. This leaves the question of how he intends to convince Achamian to kill his friend's father, I'll admit. Concerning a conspiracy between Moenghus and Maithaneth or a manipulation of the latter by the former : it does make a lot of sense that the Holy War serves as a ground for Khellus's rebirth as a prophet, though this also leaves the question of why Moenghus would want this. We know very little about the Dûnyain's profound motives, and about nothing about an [i:kqz9gjtm]exiled[/i:kqz9gjtm] Dûnyain's motives ; why should he care about the Consult ? If anything, his actions have alerted the Consult about the Dûnyain and threaten their isolation, even their very survival. And if the goal is to fight the Consult, then a war bent of destroying the Cishaurim (the Consult's enemy) looks like a strange way to achieve that goal. view post

On Inrithism posted 12 Mar 2005, 04:03 in Author Q & AOn Inrithism by Twayleph, Auditor

First of all, I'm begging everyone not to flame me if I've misinterpreted the religion cited here ; to my shame, I know very little about this subject. However for some reason I'm interested to know more about Inrithism (probably because I'm appealed by all that bears the seal of Earwa !). I was wondering what the principal tenets of Inrithism were ; i.e. its core values. Par example, as I understand it, one of the core values of Christianism is the sense of self-sacrifice. We've been given bits of information on the polytheistic nature of Inirithism and citations from the Tusk, as well as things it opposes (prostitution, sorcery...) and it's pretty clear to me that its interpretation in the Three Seas serves as a way to submit lower castes to the dominant class ; yet I still don't feel like I "get" it. What values does it promote ? How many saints or prophets does it glorify, and are they for real or are they just inventions ? Is its ruler (Shriah) held to be divine, to be of divine inspiration or just a man with more sense than the others ? I'd be interested to ask the same questions about Fanimry as well, but I'm afraid it would touch a red zone (the Cishaurim) and in any case, I feel we'll know more about the Fanim in TTT. Hopefully :) view post

posted 15 Mar 2005, 17:03 in Author Q & AOn Inrithism by Twayleph, Auditor

Thanks for these answers, it answered my question as much as I expected it would :) With each new thread it seems the TTT appendix will be something to look forward to ! view post

posted 16 Mar 2005, 05:03 in The Warrior ProphetAnother Maithanet Theory (possible spoiler) by Twayleph, Auditor

First of all Brady, I have to say it's a very good explanation indeed, simple and realistic. However I still have trouble believing that Moënghus would willingly trigger a war in which the Cishaurim would be slaughtered. If he's an enemy of the Consult, why would he want to see destroyed (or at least bleeded) an enemy of his enemy ? Speaking of the Cishaurim : I wonder, has anyone made a theory on [i:38pmwit3]why[/i:38pmwit3] the Consult wants to destroy the Cishaurim so badly ? Considering that, before Khellus, they weren't aware the Anasûrimbor lineage had survived, they couldn't possibly have known all about Moënghus ; at most, they knew him under wathever identity he's assumed in Earwa. Do you think their manipulation of the Holy War is all about killing Moënghus, or the fact that the Consult can't see them as the Few - or maybe a deeper effect of Psukhe ? view post

posted 23 Apr 2005, 12:04 in The Thousandfold Thoughtlivin n dyin in TTT by Twayleph, Auditor

Are we sure about that, Grantaire? I'd always wondered what happened to Iyokus after Achamian destroyed the Ciphrang. I thought the fate of Iyokus had been left to be told in TTT; if you've found a passage which tells us with certainty that Iyokus is indeed dead, could you please quote it? view post

posted 02 May 2005, 14:05 in Author Q & AChorae bowmen by Twayleph, Auditor

I believe that if human nations employ Chorae archers, it's because they have no other choice. Remember what happened to the battle of Kiyuth, where a large Scylvendi horde was so very easily destroyed - all because they didn't have Chorae archers at the ready to fight the Imperial Saik - or the battle at the Fords from Achamian's Dreams. Sorcerers have an obscene power that you simply can't ignore, leaving you with only two choices: either out-power the enemy sorcerers with your own sorcerers or employ Chorae. Sorcerers are a very valuable resource (remember Eleazaras' dismay at losing even two sorcerers!), probably just as valuable as the Chorae. As for handing Chorae to melee units (such as the Inrithi knights), it's not very effective since the Chorae must touch the sorcerer to have any effect, and armies will tend to protect their sorcerers very closely from Chorae-bearing units. All this said, I agree that employing Chorae archers is very risky and that they would be employed only in the rarest of circumstances. In battles where they aren't needed, I imagine they would either be kept as a reserve or employ mundane arrows. Still, Chorae are there to be used, and Chorae archers seem to a good way to do so. view post

posted 03 May 2005, 12:05 in Author Q & AChorae bowmen by Twayleph, Auditor

Quote from M.Bakker on another topic: [quote:dhjrkaeg]"Chorae bowmen from different nations adopt different strategies, but in each case, what they fire is the Chorae itself fixed to the shaft or bolt. Physical contact with a Chorae grants an individual and their immediate effects immunity - nothing else."[/quote:dhjrkaeg] Chorae [i:dhjrkaeg]are[/i:dhjrkaeg] fired by the Chorae archers and, unless retrieved after the battle, will be lost. view post

posted 17 May 2005, 15:05 in Author Q & AAbout Nonmen by Twayleph, Auditor

From what I've seen, the fact that the Nonmen warred against the Inchoroi is precisely the reason why some of them became the bad guys. Scott has hinted that somehow, the Cuno-Inchoroi wars have broken the Nonmen as a people - though how exactly is unknown. Their minds are a waste now, and some of them have taken to expericiencing traumas only because they're easier to remember. Well, if you want to suffer senseless pain, I guess the Inchoroi will welcome you with open arms! view post

posted 22 May 2005, 23:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Logos/Dunyain by Twayleph, Auditor

I would disagree with that last point; in my opinion, the very essence of traditional sorcery, as we know it in Fantasy, is that it's unnatural. It wouldn't be magic if it worked inside the laws and boundaries of the world; when a sorcerer just says a word and the person in front of him bursts into flames, I don't think it's a simple question of understanding the world. Sure, there are laws ruling sorcery, but they're not the ones governing this world and that's why to non-sorcerers it appears wondrous and incomprehensible. In PON, when one of the Few witnesses sorcery, he is at once able to recognize it because it is not of this world but rather of the force that created this world (the God?). As I see it, common people are like cartoon characters living in their little 2D world and forced to follow its rules - and the Few are the ones able to take the cartoonist's pencil and draw a big "X" over those they don't like. view post

posted 31 May 2005, 15:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe agenda of the skin spies and the Consult by Twayleph, Auditor

I'd like to know where you got that quote, White Lord. I've re-read TdTCB so many times I've lost count but I don't recall ever seeing this. Is there a special edition containing more information than the Canadian edition, or did I just over-look it? view post

posted 31 May 2005, 17:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe agenda of the skin spies and the Consult by Twayleph, Auditor

Ah, I finally found it in some little corner of page 554! [quote:1v7j9xd5]She stood, she realized, at the very heart of the Holy War, fiery with passion, promise, and sacred purpose. These men were more than human, they were [i:1v7j9xd5]Kahiht[/i:1v7j9xd5], World Souls, locked in the great wheel of great events.[/quote:1v7j9xd5] I can't believe you could quote that out of memory...Amazing how many subtle little facts like this you can overlook if you're not as incredibly immersed in the world as you, White Lord :) I'll certainly be interested in looking for the definition and origin of that little term in the TTT appendice. view post

Scylvendi magi? posted 11 Jun 2005, 03:06 in Author Q & AScylvendi magi? by Twayleph, Auditor

Hello Scott, I was just re-reading about the battle of Kiyuth when I wondered, do Scylvendi have their own sorcerers ? Cnaiür refers to sorcery as unholy (as he does many outlander customs, be they Inirithi or Fanim). Is this opinion of sorcery generalized among the Scylvendi and they just kept exterminating the Few among them until they were all gone ? If so, would you care to elaborate why they hold sorcery to be unholy ? After all, I highly doubt they'd quote the Tusk to answer that question! Or maybe they do have their own magic ? At the beginning of the novel, Leweth refers to "witches, whose urgings could harness the wild agencies in earth, animal and tree" ; could he be referring to the Scylvendi memorialists and the Scylvendi veneration of the Steppe ? In any case, thanks for taking the time to answer. I can't stress how much curiosity and interest I have in this crazy, crazy world you've created :) view post

posted 15 Jun 2005, 01:06 in Author Q & AFavourite Sorcerous School? by Twayleph, Auditor

I think Scott has done an amazing job describing sorcery and Schools and, apart from the Mysunsai - mercenaries, which is realistic but somewhow a little base for sorcerers imo - and the Imperial Saik -lapdogs of the Emperor - I find them all fascinating in their own way. Now to answer the question, it's a hard choice between the Mandate, whose Gnosis has been so brilliantly described that I'm beginning feel the same envy as Eleäzaras did, and the Cishaurim, who I think wield the closest thing we've seen to holy magic so far (never mind the oxymoron). In the end, however, how could I not take the philosophers' side, as Achaminan describes them? :wink: view post

posted 15 Jun 2005, 22:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtA stupid question by Twayleph, Auditor

Yes, TTT is the last book of the Prince of Nothing Series. It is not the last we'll hear of Eärwa, however, since Scott has planned to write two more series of book, one called The Aspect-Emperor and another one whose title Scott is reluctant to reveal for spoiler reasons. I think we'll have to wait a little more than a year for those, though :) view post

posted 17 Jun 2005, 02:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Twayleph, Auditor

We've actually seen three conceptions of the sky (or space) so far. The Scylvendi belief, expressed by Cnaiür, is that there is some sort of blanket recovering the world, and that the stars are in fact holes in this surface which let in the light of the outside. This is, to them, the proof that the world is not as it appears (everything is false save the People) The common Inirithi belief, expressed by Esmenet, is that the Sun revolved around the Earth and the stars revolve around the Nail of Heaven. The conception of the Inchoroi and Nonmen, explained by Achamian, is similar to our own beliefs. The world we know is a planet lost in an infinitely large, empty universe and the stars are faraway suns. The following citation confirms that the Inchoroi are indeed aliens : [quote:32mtp09d]Supposedly that's what the Inchoroi told [the Nonmen]. That they sailed here from stars that were suns.[/quote:32mtp09d] Hopefully that'll clear things up :) view post

Consult and Empire posted 21 Jun 2005, 02:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtConsult and Empire by Twayleph, Auditor

Re-reading TDTCB and TWP, a passage where Achamian draws an ink line between "Consult" and "Empire" on his map, had me wondering just what the nature of that link was. Obviously Skeaös tried to manipulate the Emperor to serve the goals of the Consult, but reviewing the events I came to believe that the Emperor's plan was diametrically opposite to the objectives of the Conclave. I'll review each step of the plan : 1) The Battle of Kiyuth : the Scylvendi were allies of the No-God at the First Apocalypse and have supposedly spent the last few thousand years avenging his death - and now that they will be most needed, they are obliterated ! Pretty bad timing for the Consult, don't you think ? 2) The destruction of the Vulgar Holy War ; even though they were described as an impediment, wouldn't the Consult freak out when half of the army supposed to kill the Cishaurim was destroyed so quickly ? 3) The pact between the Emperor and the heathen ; the Emperor vowed to spare Shimeh - and thus the Cishaurim, which are for all we know the Consult's deadliest enemies. All in all, it seems the Emperor's plan was absolutely contrary to the objectives of the Consult, so why in the world would they have helped him devise it ? It says in the book that Skeaös tried to talk him out of it, so maybe they did try to prevent this plan from happening. So was this the extent of the Consult's influence on the Empire : a failed attempt to make the Emperor change his mind ? It wouldn't make much sense - or am I missing something here ? This is a lot of rambling, and for all I know, I'm just very slow and everyone understood that matter the first time around :) In any case, any commentary or insight would be welcome! view post

posted 21 Jun 2005, 14:06 in The Warrior ProphetA little help... by Twayleph, Auditor

I'd like to help you Deerow, but I don't think the pages on the edition I have correspond with yours. The first (and only) paragraph of page 186 of my Canadian edition reads : [quote:w4zbw4ce]Song and myriad glittering torches greeted Ikurei Xerius III as he passed through curtains of wispy linen and into the palatial courtyard. Only in light must the Emperor be seen. There was a rustle of fabric as the throngs fell to their knees and pressed their powdered faces against the lawns. Only the tall Eothic Guardsmen remained standing. With child-slaves holding the hem of his gowns, Xerius walked among the prostrated forms and savoured, as he always did, this loneliness. Thisgodlike loneliness. [/quote:w4zbw4ce] No reference to an old man whatsoever. Could you indicate what chapter that blotch is located in and where approximatively to look (beginning, halfway...) ? view post

posted 21 Jun 2005, 17:06 in The Warrior ProphetA little help... by Twayleph, Auditor

No problem, I can understand having an obsession with the details. I myself often leave the subtitles when I watch a DVD just in case I'd miss a word :) I think I found the passage : [quote:y0tqjnhr]After completing the purificatory rites, Gotian and Sarcellus withdrew. Stiff in their ornamental hauberks, the Gilgallic Priests then rose to declare the Battle-Celebrant, whom dread War had chosen as his vessel of the field five days previous. The masses fell silent in anticipation. The selection of the Battle-Celebrant, Xinemus had complained to Khellus earlier, was the object of innumerable wagers, as though it were a lottery rather than a divine determination. An older man, his square-cut beard as white (...) [/quote:y0tqjnhr] I hope that's what you were looking for, and hurry up to finish reading TWP already ;) view post

posted 14 Aug 2005, 01:08 in Writing TipsSnowflake Method by Twayleph, Auditor

I've check that out briefly, and it looks very interesting. The "snowflake method" actually looks like a clearer, more organized version of the process I've used myself, and there are good ideas in there. Thanks for providing the link :) view post

Betraying the Gnosis posted 30 Aug 2005, 17:08 in Author Q & ABetraying the Gnosis by Twayleph, Auditor

No, this isn't about Achamian teaching Khellus, although I'm looking forward to see how that goes :) I'm actually interested in knowing how many Mandati have betrayed their School and to what extent. Somewhere in TWP, Achamian mentions that no sorcerer [i:34u3zrvr]of rank[/i:34u3zrvr] ever betrayed the Gnosis, but what about apprentices? Inrau, at least, has defected and Achamian mentioned that if he'd betrayed what little he knew of the Gnosis, rival schools (the Scarlet Spires first, I'd assume) would eventually be able to crack the secret. So was Inrau the only defection in milleniae? I find that hard to believe, since only sorcerers-of-rank touch Seswathat's Heart and the Scarlet Spires must have invested immense resources throughout the centuries to crack this secret. Have other apprentices ever left the Mandate and, if so, did any one of them live long enough to give over a few secrets to the other Schools? The matter of what happens when a Mandati betrays his School will probably breached in TTT, not to mention the Consult agent mentioned in TDTCB, so I'd understand it I got a "read-and-find-out"...still, any questions you could answer would be appreciated! view post

posted 31 Aug 2005, 03:08 in Author Q & ABetraying the Gnosis by Twayleph, Auditor

Good point on Inrau; he is indeed a special case and I don't think he would've gotten very far without Achamian's help and the Quorum's wilful inaction. But I wasn't implying that Inrau was a common case. Surely with an entire nation at their feet and centuries of greed and envy, the Scarlet Spires could've found a way to get hold of a few apprentices? Yes, traitors would be ruthlessly hunted by the Mandati but if the apprentice could be brought to the Scarlet Spires's headquarters he would be safe there - Achamian himself mentioned that even the Mandate could never hope to infiltrate the innermost sanctums of the Scarlet Spires, and a head-on war against High Ainon would be suicidal. Have there never been traitors that survived long enough to step on a boat out of Nron, and if so why wasn't the secret of the Gnosis exposed after all this time? view post

posted 02 Sep 2005, 11:09 in Author Q & ABetraying the Gnosis by Twayleph, Auditor

Alright, I see your point WL. Though I still find it amazing that the Mandate could hide for centuries a secret everyone knows about and that very powerful people want desperatly - I guess it all comes down to the Quorum's determination. If they could find it in themselves to let young apprentices grow up barricaded in such a heartless place as Atyersus behind dozens of series of Wards, then escape becomes nearly impossible - unless, of course, you can find a kind teacher who'll disable all the traps for you. As for the query you posed (I'll start with how they could preserve it during the time of the Apocalypse), I'd guess the arrogance and pride of the Norsirai had a lot to do with it; Achamian told us that even after the Apocalypse was well under way and that their greatest nations were falling, they still thought that the High North was going to win, somehow. They may have thought that their uniquely powerful sorcery would help them keep the edge over the South no matter what devastation the North had suffered during the Apocalypse. Seswatha, at least, might not have been so blind, but we could he do? Travel half the world to go South and find potential apprentices, then proceed to teach them over the next few months or years - not every student is Khellus :) - while his home was being ripped apart? Furthermore, even if his School did manage to convert a few sorcerers to the Gnosis, I'd expect they would be required fight the Apocalypse, not to go back home and spread the word. Concerning how the High North could preserve the secret of the Gnosis from the rest of the world for centuries, all I can do is guess that the Anagogic Schools of the South, at that time, were too weak at that time to even rival the Gnostic Schools or be able to steal their secrets. I'm interested to hear your theories on the subject.[/i] view post

posted 02 Sep 2005, 15:09 in Author Q & ABetraying the Gnosis by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:k9lz9c0j]Scott posted here that it was imparted by a single Nonman renegade[/quote:k9lz9c0j] As I understood it, the Gnosis was the result of Nonmen Tutelage: the original Nonman sorcery shared by the Quya caste, and then "refined" by human cunning until it resulted in something different and, judging by the fact that the Nonmen [i:k9lz9c0j]envied[/i:k9lz9c0j] it, more powerful. I don't know how large the Quya are, but it certainly doesn't look like it was one single Nonmen who gave it away. I think the defector you refer to is this : [quote:k9lz9c0j] the first to [share the Gnosis] (Gin'yursis, I think) was an exile, and so I suspect had personal motives. [/quote:k9lz9c0j] Gin'yursis was the first, but he probably wasn't the last. I'd be interested to find out how much the Norsirai were able to make out of the bits they were given at first - and in comparison, how much the Anagogic Schools would be able to make out of an apprentice's revelations if they could get their hands on one. [quote:k9lz9c0j] I suspect the Dreams are the result of some Gnostic sorcery, possibly not doable with the Anagogis.[/quote:k9lz9c0j] Agreed; if it was possible for Anagogic Schools to impose loyalty through Dreams or similar measures, I bet the Scarlet Spires would have long experimented enough in this domain and wouldn't have to worry about their numbers defecting to the Mysunsai. As for this measure being spread throughout the Ancient North, I think that very unlikely. Didn't Seswatha have to sacrifice himself while he was still alive to accomplish this ritual and leave an imprint of his soul on his followers? I don't see any sorcerer sacrificing himself in such a way simply to ensure the High North would conserve its monopoly of the Gnosis. view post

posted 06 Sep 2005, 19:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Destruction of the Dunyain by Twayleph, Auditor

Well to the risk of getting caught in a crossfire between Mith and WL, here's my opinion on the subject. Would it be so hard for them to change their ways of life - from isolation and secrecy to active involvement in world-born society? Not really. In fact, the Dûnyain strike me as the people who would have the least difficulty adapting their activities to circumstances. To world-born men it would indeed appear as a complete turn-around on their ways, but perhaps not to the Dûnyain. They would probably think that in allying with world-born Men, Nonmen and who-knows-what else, they are still doing what they have always been doing - following the Shortest Path to their destination. In this case, maximizing their chances of survival so they can continue their Conditioning after the dust settles. But it seems to me that allying with human nations isn't their only choice - not even their most likely. Based on the Consult's complete ignorance of the Dûnyain until very recently and to the context of the prologue, it seems that their reaction to War was to flee, not to ally with mankind's defenders. Why should their reaction this time around be any different? If the Consult besieges Ishuäl (or shows sign of wanting to besiege it), could they not simply flee that old citadel and go hide elsewhere (i.e., Zeüm)? view post

posted 08 Sep 2005, 20:09 in Author Q & AQuestion about the ending of TWP *Spoiler Warning* by Twayleph, Auditor

As I understand it, Khellus didn't really rip out his own heart, illusion or otherwise; it was Serwë's heart that he took. [quote:1etsxya8]He brandished Serwë's burning heart.[/quote:1etsxya8] The ripping-his-own-heart passage was a metaphore; since attaining/discovering TTT, Khellus feels that all things are his and that he is everywhere; in that perspective, Serwë's heart is his own heart. Whether that's true or not, we'll see in TTT :) view post

posted 17 Sep 2005, 15:09 in Author Q & Athree seas militray strenght by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:12y4wzsq]I'm fairly certain that less than 30,000 survived the trials of the desert crossing.[/quote:12y4wzsq] Actually, Cause is close to the mark. After the fight on the Battleplains, there were more than 250 000 Inirith warriors left. Around 180 000 combatants entered the desert and close to 100 000 survived, whereas almost all of the 120 000 non-combatants following the Holy War died. [quote:12y4wzsq] It would be the height of stupid to send all of your armies south and allow your northern border to be invaded by an erstwhile ally or worse (and more likely) the Scylvendi barbarians of the Eastern lands to take advantage of the situation and come rampaging across your borders.[/quote:12y4wzsq] I agree that the Nansur would never send [i:12y4wzsq]all[/i:12y4wzsq] of their armies to the Holy War, but I believe that they sent a sizable fraction of it; after all, the Exalt-General's survival depends on the success of the Holy War and they would never miss an opportunity to take revenge against the Fanim. Concerning the threat of the Scylvendi, isn't that what Kiyuth was for? To ensure that a large fraction of the Imperial Army could be sent away to wage war alongside (and later, against) the Holy War without the Nansurium being left open for the Scylvendi. Concerning the original question (how much of the Threa-Seas' military strenght has been expended in the Holy War), I'm afraid I don't have a clue. Scott mentioned that the total population of the Three-Seas was around 75 millions, but I have no idea of the civil/military ratio and anyway the number includes Kian, Nilnamesh...I can only hope that there's enough left for the Three-Seas to put up a fight when the Second Apocalypse begins :) view post

posted 20 Sep 2005, 03:09 in Author Q & ACishaurim magic essentially anagogic?? by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:vpj1b7va]I think I remember during the assault on Caraskand, when the Cishaurim emerge that some of their magic was described as sparrows, which would be an analogy like the anagogic sorcery. [/quote:vpj1b7va] I don't think so; during the clash between the Cishaurim and the Scarlet Spires, it was the Spires that produced burning sparrows to attack the Cishaurim defending the Citadel of the Dog: [quote:vpj1b7va] Flocks of incandescent sparrows swarmed over the battlement, plummeting into face after howling face. Despite the destruction...[/quote:vpj1b7va] The Psûkhe is a different type of sorcery from the Anagogic; it doesn't seem to be limited to analogies, as its effects are often described as "pure" light. The exact nature of the Psûkhe is still a mystery, though; it's one of the many mysteries I hope will be revealed in TTT. view post

Welcome back Scott! posted 29 Sep 2005, 11:09 in Author Q & AWelcome back Scott! by Twayleph, Auditor

Hi Scott, I was just very glad to see you back to the forum and wanted to greet you back ! It's pretty quiet these days, but then that leaves you more time to answer all these threads :) Also, all my sympathies for the computer crashdowns. I cannot imagine being able to survive all this time without a computer, but then I'm a bit of an addict. Anyway, welcome back! view post

posted 10 Oct 2005, 14:10 in Author Q & AWelcome back Scott! by Twayleph, Auditor

Not anymore, it seems :) Many thanks to whoever fixed the theme bug ! view post

posted 18 Oct 2005, 15:10 in Author Q & AThe Nonmen by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:3kij9m0o]I'm afraid I'll never be the kind of writer that gives exhaustive descriptions of things and/or people.[/quote:3kij9m0o] And I'll never be the kind of reader that appreciates exhaustive descriptions, either - especially physical descriptions of characters and landscapes. That's caused me a few problems when reading the works of other authors I enjoyed - like Stephen King or even Tolkien. Maybe it's because I feel they leave no place to imagination, or I'm just too impatient to get on with the plot to appreciate them. I haven't met many people who feel that way, though. view post

posted 21 Nov 2005, 21:11 in Author Q & AEpitome by Twayleph, Auditor

I think the fault Khellus refers to is thinking that one's culture or civilization is superior without having any clear understanding of either of them. Inrithi hardly understand their own society, as Khellus often underlines - "They know so little of themselves" - , and next to nothing about other civilizations - all they need to know about the Fanim is that they are wicked and that they should die, quickly and in the most painful way possible. I don't think it's the belief that "A is superior to B" that Khellus condemns, it's holding the belief that "A is superior to B" when you know little of A and nothing of B. Khellus, on the other hand, seems to have a relatively clear understanding of Dûnyain society, which is essentially devoted to Mission and nothing else. We haven't learned that much about Khellus's childhood, but usually before Khellus makes his "I'm superior" statements he's gleaned some understanding of the people he believes he's superior to. He calls Leweth weak after realizing how little control he has over his emotions. He calls world-born men bovine and maladroit after he's spent the last few months dominating an entire army of them with only insights and brilliant acting. That's not to say Khellus is right - in fact, I find myself hoping he's [i:1wso75p3]not[/i:1wso75p3] right - but at least his beliefs seem to be based on evidence, instead of blind faith confusing itself for knowledge. Besides, I find it hard to imagine that people as passionless as the Dûnyain could succomb to such a base emotion as vanity. view post

posted 14 Dec 2005, 18:12 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Twayleph, Auditor

StegoKing, please refrain from giving TTT spoilers..for those who are waiting impatiently for it and want to keep the element of surprise, it's very frustrating. Even though it may not seem like a big spoiler to you, it can be important to other people. view post

posted 17 Dec 2005, 13:12 in Author Q & AWhy can't Kellhus plan? by Twayleph, Auditor

You make some good points overall ; it's true that Khellus seems to be reacting more than he should, instead of planning, but I think to some extent he can be excused by the sheer amount of data he has to process to conquer the Holy War. Considering the considerable amount of attention this demands and his initial state of ignorance regarding the Three-Seas, I think his earlier lack of planning can be explained. Concerning the water supplies. Of course, with the benefit on hindsight, it can seem predictable that the Fanim would attack the Holy War's provisions, but can you honestly say that before you read about it, you thought to yourself "You idiots, they'll send the Cishaurim after your boats, you're marching into your doom." ? It's specified that no one among the Holy War even considered the possibility that Kian would wage war on water after the first days of the war. At least he was the first to realize what was going on among the Great Names when the fleet was missing. Concerning the skin-spies, I'll grant you he might've devised a plan to deal with them by assuming there were more than of them. But remember that when he first sighted Skeaos, he knew next to nothing about the Consult, and no-one knew about the skin-spies. He could only guess at their nature and purpose. He didn't know at the time that the Consult was secretly steering the Holy War, and so couldn't have guessed there were so many of them within the army - although he probably should've assumed there would be at least a few. Concerning what he's planned when he gets to his father and to Ishüal, I don't think we can judge his plans for that, for the simple reason that we've no idea of his plans. Perhaps I've missed some details in the books, but all I've seen for certain concerning these is that the Pragma sent Khellus as an assassin. We don't know if Khellus really intends to follow these orders anymore and as for Khellus coming back to Ishual to "enlighten" the Dunyain, where do you see him stating that? Finally, concerning warfare, Khellus probably tried to learn warfare from the Inrithi war council, but as we find out in TWP they're really not experts at it. At every turn the leaders of the Holy War are baffled and trapped by the Fanim, and as it's been indicated in TDTCB, they have to be saved from their ignorance by someone who really knows warfare - either Cnaiur or Conphas, both of which violently resist Khellus' manipulation. Being Dunyain, he [i:2q2m247p]was[/i:2q2m247p] able to learn from the war councils and even become more knowledgeable than they were in the matter - remember the examples of the desert - but there's only so much you can learn from novices. view post

posted 19 Dec 2005, 21:12 in Author Q & AAspect-Emperor status by Twayleph, Auditor

It's going to be a sci-fi thriller situated in the near future. From what Scott has told us, it's probably going to contain some very horrifying reflections on the possibilities of new technologies such as neuro-imaging. view post

posted 20 Dec 2005, 00:12 in Author Q & AAspect-Emperor status by Twayleph, Auditor

So am I, especially since it's going to be a thriller and probably a smaller tome than his previous novels...I'm not skeptical at all, though, just curious too :) view post

posted 23 Dec 2005, 04:12 in Author Q & ASerwe's burning heart by Twayleph, Auditor

Just look a few threads below, A question about TWP ending: It was indeed Serwe's heart he took, not his own. He's not so inhuman that he doesn't need a heart to live...yet :D view post

posted 08 Jan 2006, 14:01 in Author Q & ADo we have a date? by Twayleph, Auditor

So do I. I was really looking forward to reading TTT during my Christmas vacations, and this third delay is really frustrating. view post

Tears of God posted 12 Jan 2006, 04:01 in Author Q & ATears of God by Twayleph, Auditor

Hey Scott, this might be answered in TTT but I just can't wait :) I noticed in TWP that Fanim also used the name "Tears of God" to design Chorae. I could understand why the Inrithi would call them such - because they act against sorcerers, who are an affront against the God - but why would the Fanim hold them sacred? If I remember well, Chorae are lethal to the Cishaurim. Since the Cishaurim are Fanim sorcerer-[i:22rfw2yh]priests[/i:22rfw2yh], how do the Fanim explain that the God's Tears would serve to kill His own priests? Unless they actually know they're not holy artefacts and would give that name only to express their gratitude for a means to kill sorcerers...It still seems weird, for people who hate and fear sorcery, to use sorcerous artefacts so liberally and shamelessly... And, do the Inrithi also realize this, or is it only the Schoolmen who know what Chorae truly are? Thanks for any answer you could give, it'll help me survive the long days before I finally, finally get TTT ! view post

posted 12 Jan 2006, 23:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtTTFT Available Now In Canada by Twayleph, Auditor

Thanks a lot for this information ! I'll cancel my order from Amazon and go pick up a copy as soon as possible - probably tomorrow :) view post

posted 17 Jan 2006, 17:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThousandfold Thought discussion *Spoilers* by Twayleph, Auditor

I finished reading the book on Satursday; awesome work by Scott, I couldn't have asked for a better way to wrap up the PoN series. There were two things in particular that I had high expectations for : an explanation of the metaphysics behind sorcery and finding out the more profound motivations of the Consult. I was very impressed at his development for both of these subjects - the "striptease", as Scott likes to call it, was well worth the wait! One thing, though: was I the only one left with a strange sense of...horror after reading the book? I'm afraid to get more explicit here - I hate giving spoilers as much as receiving them - but I'm very eager to discuss TTT at large with all of you :) view post

posted 18 Jan 2006, 01:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by Twayleph, Auditor

Yes, the sorcerous battle was awesome - nothing like a full clash of the two most powerful Schools. I'm not entirely clear on this - apart from Iyokus, did many of the Scarlet Spires Schoolmen survive or is it reduced to a Minor School ? I was also very surprised to learn who - and what - Maithanet really is. I was a little disappointed, though, to learn that for all the mystery and power surrounding him, he's nothing more than a Dûnyain tool. Also very curious of what was his environment - was he secreted into the obscurity of the Nonmen Mansion to be raised exclusively by Moënghus or was he left in the care of the Cishaurim while Moënghus preoccupied himself with TTT? Nauticus : the Consult isn't the same thing as the Inchoroi. The Inchoroi are an alien race, an invader upon Eärwa that was all but wiped out by the Nonmen. The Consult, on the other hand, is an assembly of powerful servants of the No-God. Though the No-God was originally an Ichoroi weapon, the Consult itself is made up of Erratic Nonmen, Men (of the School of Maengedda) and the last two surviving Ichoroi. view post

posted 21 Jan 2006, 00:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by Twayleph, Auditor

I'm not sure about Cnaiür's fate, either. My instinct is that he survived, but I haven't seen anything that supports or contradicts that. [quote:2gz5xhxg] if he does die, he'd probably be the first character to not be accompanied by 'Dea*th came swirling down'[/quote:2gz5xhxg] What about Serwë ? And...and...well, yeah, Scott does seem to like that phrase a lot :) I wonder how many times we'll see it in the Aspect-Emperor, what will all the murders and betrayals and massacres any good Apocalypse comprises :D view post

posted 21 Jan 2006, 18:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by Twayleph, Auditor

Spamoram, I think you're confusing me with Entropic Existence regarding giving the Gnosis to the Dûnyain :) Also, I appreciated the metaphorical power of the "death came swirling down" phrase the first time I'd read it, I just think over all the times it got repeated over the three novels, the phrase lost its meaning and became more of an anecdote. view post

posted 25 Jan 2006, 01:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by Twayleph, Auditor

I share some of Grallon's disappointments regarding TTT, especially how much ink was devoted describing Cnaiür's madness. I didn't particularly like these passages, and I think a lot more time could've been devoted to the events at the end of the book - like how Maithanet and the Mandate came to serve Khellus. The issue of why the Consult wants to destroy Men and Nonmen, was a metaphysical issue. Men (and probably Nonmen too) are portals through which the Outside can take expression into the world. As long as Men exist, the Gods will have influence over Eärwa and its souls, which means that some souls will be Redeemed and some others will be Damned. The more you kill Men, the less influence the Outside has over the world, until one day they become so remote that the world is "sealed" - a state described by Khellus as when "The Gods howl like wolves at silent gates" If (when?) that happens, then the possibilities of Redemption and Damnation no longer exist and all souls fall into Oblivion upon death. This is the ultimate goal of the Consult. The Inchoroi know themselves damned - the topoi, the glimpse into the Outside, that exists in Golgotterath leaves little ambiguity as to what their after-life fate is. As for the Men, well at first they were sorcerers of the Maengedda and as we know in the pre-Khellus era everyone believed sorcerers were damned. After all the crimes they've commited throughout the millenia, they certainly are now. But if they seal the world, they won't have to suffer the eternal consequences of their actions. Concerning Khellus' rise to power, I think you're writing off the Consult far too quickly. Yes, he did face an Old Name and survived, but remember that for a while he utterly lost control of Legion, which is a pretty impressive feat, and anyway both Khellus and Aurang thought this fight a diversion. Consider also that, if Achamian is to be believed, there are [i:310yex4f]hundreds[/i:310yex4f] of times the numbers of Sranc there were at the time of the First Apocalypse, and the High North, the most powerful civilization of that time, lost. And regarding your comment that Khellus could destroy anything physical now, including the No-God...what ? The physical descriptions of the No-God are more impressive than any other villain's depiction I've ever read of. Even if it weren't for the fact that the No-God is [i:310yex4f]immune to sorcery[/i:310yex4f] (remember the Chorae embedded in its Carapace?), it still wouldn't be a piece of cake to destroy - far from it. The Heron Spear, the only known means of destroying it, is now, I don't think the Consult is beaten yet, and the Three-Seas' chances are still low enough for the Second Apocalypse to be very threatening, in my opinion. view post

posted 27 Jan 2006, 16:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtExplanation for Achamian's survival?? by Twayleph, Auditor

That confused me too, but then I realized that perhaps Iyokus [i:159glstn]intended[/i:159glstn] Achamian to survive. As the demon itself said, "An eye for an eye" ; just like Achamian avenged Xinemus by taking out Iyokyus' eyes (or so Iyokus must've perceived it), Iyokus, who had been overmatched and left crippled by Achamian, delivered the same fate to Achamian. Or perhaps Iyokus feared the reprisals if he ever killed the Warrior-Prophet's Vizier... view post

posted 27 Jan 2006, 16:01 in The Warrior ProphetIchoroi? Nonmen? by Twayleph, Auditor

Actually this has been answered - several times - but since it [i:3e7qacmn]is[/i:3e7qacmn] a confusing matter, I won't mind explaining it :) I'll try to say as much as I can without giving TTT spoilers : The Inchoroi are an alien race, who claim to have traveled across the space from another star, and invaded Eärwa. They are usually viewed as the "bad guys" of the story, and have no relation with Tolkien's Elves - at least, none that I can see. The Nonmen do have a relation with Tolkien's Elves - in fact, I think Scott once referred to them as "fallen elves". They were once the dominant race of Eärwa, but they are much diminished now. Although the bulk of their race did stand alongside Men in the First Apocalypse, some of them - the Erratics - have become corrupted and serve the Consult. The Nonmen we have seen at the end of TWP are an example - and so is the Nonman warrior-magi we've seen at the beginning of TDTCB. That Nonman is Mekeritrig; I can't reveal much more than that without being spoilerish. Suffice to say he's an important character and that more will be revealed in TTT :D And, I was also captivated by that battle, it remains one of the most powerful and intriguing scenes of PoN, in my opinion. view post

posted 28 Jan 2006, 04:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by Twayleph, Auditor

Regarding the Dûnyain siding with the Consult : yes, Khellus said much the same to his father. The Dûnyain [i:1v4ji4xc]have[/i:1v4ji4xc] to be in complete control of circumstances and shut out all that is uncontrollable. Their shut themselves from their emotions, which they call Legion. They shut themselves from the wilderness of the world, inside the walls of Ishüal. It only follows they would shut themselves from the Outside by sealing the world... And perhaps that's why Scott allowed Kellhus to grow so powerful...With the School of Maengedda, the No-God, Aurang and Aurax, millions of Sranc [i:1v4ji4xc]and[/i:1v4ji4xc] the Dûnyain siding against the Three-Seas...they got to have at least stand a chance :) Although first the Consult would have to prove to the Dûnyain that the Outside is real...Even in the face of sorcery, Kellhus didn't admit it at first. view post

posted 28 Jan 2006, 22:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by Twayleph, Auditor

I'll reply to some of the points raised here. First , Scott has already stated that the ability to be one of the Few is hereditary (even more so for Nonmen than for Men), so it is a genetic trait of some sort - yet it is also tied to the soul, since soulless beings cannot work sorcery. Regarding the "late-blooming morality of the Inchoroi". What makes you assume that the Inchoroi only discovered the dimension of the Outside when they arrived in Eärwa ? We know so little of them, for all we know they're on some sort of anti-Gods crusade, travelling from world to world and sealing all of them shut. Their perpeption of worship is entirely different from our own - as it should be, since they are aliens. Regarding why Men being a window to the Outside is a threat. Because then the "punitive" Gods can draw the Inchoroi's souls upon death - think of it as a vacuum cleaner mouth if that makes you happy - and torment them for their sins. Even if the Inchoroi are amoral and materialists, it won't stop the Gods from judging them guilty and condemning them to an eternity of suffering - assuming, of course, that Gods really do exist in Scott's world, and it seems they do. Yes, if the Consult kills off enough humans (I don't think they need to kill all of them, just enough so that the Gods no longer have any effective influence inside the world), then for all practical purposes Damnation and Salvation no longer exist inside this particular world. You say it doesn't speak well for the side of good, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean. It says somewhere in the book that "the Gods entrusted Men with the world". It's Men's responsability to make sure the world can't be sealed shut, and if they fail, then they doom their race to Oblivion. Just like in Tolkien's world, the possible (perhaps even eventual) triumph of Evil and amorality is part of Eärwa, I think. [quote:6ldn2ywj]As far as I'm aware the only way the Inchoroi can avoid damnation is by cheating death.[/quote:6ldn2ywj] Cheating death isn't the only way for the Inchoroi to avoid damnation. How many times was this repeated in this topic alone ? [i:6ldn2ywj]If the Consult succeeds, if the world is shut, damnation is no longer an option. DAMNATION IS NO LONGER AN OPTION.[/i:6ldn2ywj] And it doesn't seem as though they can cheat death forever. Aurang seemed to think his body had slowly degraded over the ages, so perhaps one day the Tekne's patches and avatars will fail and the Inchoroi will truly die. [quote:6ldn2ywj]Finally regarding the Inchoroi and their late-blooming morality, I still find it unbeleivable that such superior beings (they keep refering to Earwa's inhabitants as 'vermin'),[/quote:6ldn2ywj] Oh, so calling others 'vermin' makes one superior, does it? And in what sense do you mean 'superior' ? Does having more powerful technology make one morally superior to another? [quote:6ldn2ywj] If the Inchoroi are so vile that they offend the very heavens - why weren't they smitten ?[/quote:6ldn2ywj] Actually they [i:6ldn2ywj]were[/i:6ldn2ywj] smitten - during the Cûno-Inchoroi wars. They passed from hundreds of thousands of Inchoroi to [i:6ldn2ywj]two[/i:6ldn2ywj] survivors, I'd say that's pretty brutal, no? Of course, since you seem to loathe the idea that Gods objectively exist in Eärwa, you probably won't see that as a divine action, but a case could be made that since the Nonmen also represent a door into the Outside and seem to have their own forms of worship, their victory over the Inchoroi might've been divinely inspired. view post

posted 01 Feb 2006, 02:02 in The Warrior ProphetIchoroi? Nonmen? by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:bkydah11]Now i cant wait for the 3rd book[/quote:bkydah11] As well you should ;) And you're very much welcome. view post

posted 01 Feb 2006, 22:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by Twayleph, Auditor

I'll re-state a question I've already asked you Grallon : What makes you assume that the Inchoroi only discovered the dimension of the Outside when they arrived in Eärwa ? As you yourself indicated we're still in the dark concerning the backstory of the Inchoroi, so what makes you so certain they weren't already aware of that before? And why would you see that as a contradiction? If the Afterlife is as [i:282o4qha]real[/i:282o4qha] as it seems to be in Eärwa, then they can believe in it and react to it after their own manner, and still remain materialists. They see no Good or Evil, they see only the mechanisms by which souls are handled, and the way to affect that mechanism in order to make sure they won't suffer. They try to exterminate Men and Nonmen, not necessarily because they think it's the right thing to do, but because they are driven by the need to avoid pain (especially eternal suffering) and the Apocalypse is their only way to achieve that. view post

Also read TTT and puzzled - Warning : spoilers ! posted 02 Feb 2006, 04:02 in Author Q & AAlso read TTT and puzzled - Warning : spoilers ! by Twayleph, Auditor

Hi Scott, I didn't just finish TTT, but I think I'm only just beginning to recover enough from my first reading, to be able to express my feelings about it properly :) First of all I was stunned by the revelations in TTT; I'd expected to receive a lot of questions and few answers in that last tome, but you've responded to many interrogations I had, both metaphysical and plot-wise. I had high anticipations regarding the motivations of the Consult, and TTT didn't let me down :) I'm really glad you're providing the villains with as much depht as the other characters and factions - it's a relief to find an Enemy who doesn't want to conquer/destroy the world just because "he's Evil" or out of some senseless quest for power. The opening scene of Dagliash was also a perfect mix of awe and horror - please promise me we'll see more of Seswatha's Dreams in AE, because they were some of my favorite scenes of the PoN series! Achamian's transformation throughout the book, the meeting between Kellhus and his father.. I found the outcomes both unexpected and, looking back, obvious, which means you've struck the perfect dose for these matters! I do have an issue with TTT, though. In the first two books, the world seemed rather "materialist": just about everything, from history to the Consult and the power of the Dûnyain, seemed to have a rational explanation that didn't involve the Gods. In TTT, however, this seems to shift completely to the other side as sorcery, Afterlife, the Consult's motivation, perhaps even the Dûnyain's existence is explained purely in terms of the Gods. I was very surprised by this change, and perhaps a little disappointed : one thing that had especially impressed me when I read TDTCB was how you were able to describe a fantasy world in such rational terms, without restorting to concepts such as fate or Gods. I think this was at least partially intentional; as Kellhus rises to match the prophecy and begins to distance himself from the Dûnyain, as we shift more and more outside of Khellus's point of view to the adoring masses, it would be natural that a purely materialist worldview would be altered progressively. However, whereas in the previous tomes this worldview seemed subjective and questionable to the reader - as impressive as the Dûnyain's philosophy was, it was obvious they were missing on something - in TTT the new, "Gods-oriented" worldview seems far less open to questioning to me. Sorcery and Afterlife don't seem to have any alternative explanations, which would mean that we would be forced to accept the Gods' existence. Did I misunderstand? Is the existence of the Gods in Eärwa as ambiguous as the veracity of any worldview exposed in PoN ? Are the metaphysics of sorcery absolute or is there another explanation that doesn't involve the "we are the same Here, we are all God" theory? This is a long-winded post so I should really cut this now, but there are a few questions I'd like to ask first : -The Circle of Nibel was cited as a Major School in the Glossary, yet I don't remember any mention of it during the PoN trilogy, nor did I find any more reference in the Glossary (of course I could have missed it, the Glossary is delightedly huge!). Anything you could say about this School, or is this strictly AE material? -The Chorae Hoard was mentionned (either in the Glossary or in TTT, I'm not sure); was the Hoard amassed specifically to counter the Consult or did its creation predate the Apocalypse? Did it survive the Apocalypse or was it lost, recovered by the Consult...? Regardless of whether you're willing to answer these :D thank you for TTT ; like both of your previous novels, it was a book that I thoroughly enjoyed reading and made me think - and will probably keep me thinking for a long time! view post

The Dream that went wrong posted 03 Feb 2006, 02:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Dream that went wrong by Twayleph, Auditor

I was intrigued by that new version of Seswatha's Dream of the Overthrow of the No-God, which Achamian dreams after being left half-dead by the Ciphrang. Do you think that was simply a nightmare, or the sign of something deeper going on ? Perhaps it was Seswatha warning Achamian somehow, though I don't understand what that warning might be. Was it the No-God directly talking to Achamian? Achamian, after all, was broken then, just as Khellus was broken when he was bound to the Umiaki, when the No-God talked to him. Or maybe it was a result of Khellus' conversation with Seswatha? Is Kellhus so good he can turn even Seswatha's shadow? Or maybe it was something else entirely? Thoughts welcome :) view post

posted 03 Feb 2006, 03:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Dream that went wrong by Twayleph, Auditor

So you think that Seswatha [i:3hkzj520]is[/i:3hkzj520] warning Achamian of what will happen to Khellus? That's a very interesting theory. I, too, have a nag that Kellhus will have to pay for his newfound certainty. With all the parallels to the First Apocalypse's, it's very conceivable that Kellhus will be that over-confident High King who will fail the Three-Seas, just like Celmomas failed the High North. view post

posted 03 Feb 2006, 03:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Dream that went wrong by Twayleph, Auditor

Yes, that is true. In the dream Celmomas seemed to truly [i:3ly8kdtp]mean[/i:3ly8kdtp] his words, like they belonged to him...Just like the victim of a Cants of Compulsion can say all those terrible things and never realize the words don't belong to him. Kellhus being truly mad, the new Aspect-Emperor a tool of the No-God...That would be a good plot...and a so very bad twist of events for the Three-Seas :D Perhaps that's what Scott meant when he replied to complaints that Kellhus had grown too powerful and that the Consult was no longer such a threat. view post

posted 03 Feb 2006, 12:02 in Author Q & AAlso read TTT and puzzled - Warning : spoilers ! by Twayleph, Auditor

I know the [i:3f2lvavj]Chorae[/i:3f2lvavj] were made the Aporetic sorcerers, but what about the Chorae [i:3f2lvavj]Hoard[/i:3f2lvavj] ? In the Three-Seas the Chorae are spread among the caste-nobility, the Thousand Temples and the Schools, so it's plausible that in the High North, Chorae weren't confined to one specific place or faction, either. "Chorae Hoard" sounds like a very large quantity of Chorae assembled in one place, which has me wondering how and why it was assembled. Was it a war effort by all the High North nations to counter the Consult ? Or was it originally assembled long before the Apocalypse, perhaps as a way for a nation deprived of Gnostic Schools to protect itself? And I also wonder what happened to the Hoard when Sauglish was sacked; whether it fell into the hands of the Consult or was it salvaged? Edit : on second thought I'm not sure it was said the Hoard was located in Sauglish; all I could find was the Seswatha was exiled because he "cursed King Hûruth V for not fleeing to Mehtsonc with the Chorae Hoard" view post

posted 04 Feb 2006, 02:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Dream that went wrong by Twayleph, Auditor

Lots of great ideas, theories and corrections here. First off, I agree with Andrew that the No-God should be still dead, but from Kellhus' experience when he was bound to the tree, I think we can assume the No-God is still around in some form (and not only as a memory imprinted on the Battleplain) - I don't buy Moënghus' explanation that Kellhus is just externalizing the darkness within. Perhaps the No-God's nature is such that he can never truly disappear, or perhaps the Consult has already started to re-animate it and it is capable of projecting its will outward to "receptive" souls. In any case, I think there's more to the No-God than memories, even at the time of the events described in PoN. To zarathustra's comment, I admit my mistake :) And I admit it again to Entropic Existence ! ;) Very interesting theory Tol h'Eddes, I like the idea that Kellhus had to "purchase" the Gnosis from Seswatha. I wonder, however, what Kellhus would have to do with Achamian being taken over by Seswatha. For a while now there were signs that Achamian was already becoming a new Seswatha in power, character and position. Would Seswatha really need Kellhus' help to take over Achamian ? This is not a rethorical question, I'm really curious as to just how much influence Seswatha's shadow has over the Mandati and what it can force them to do. It can certainly force them to betray their closest friends. Perhaps all Kellhus gave was his permission, to allow Seswatha to take over his "friend", but both characters seem so heartless and unsentimental that I wonder why that would be an issue. view post

posted 06 Feb 2006, 00:02 in Author Q & ASpoilerish question regarding Sorcery by Twayleph, Auditor

Yes, Moenghus is recognized as a powerful Cishaurim, but there's more than one kind of power. As a Dûnyain, he would wield tremendous influence within the Cishaurim and gain knowledge rivaling that of Seökti himself. Due to his superior intellect, he would also be able to cast a large variety of spells, and perhaps even improve those few who depend on the intellect (i.e. Translating, which he used to arrange a meeting between Xerius and Skauras in TDTCB). When word of him reached, per example, the Imperial Court, the message would have lost its nuances and the knowledge and political power of Moenghus would be translated into power, period. That's why the Nansur called him so powerful that even the Cishaurim were afraid of him, that he would replace Seokti as Heresiarch if it wasn't of the Prophetic Law, etc. But the Psukhe is a metaphysic of the heart. You asked what is was the Moenghus lacked that the Cishaurim didn't; I'd say: sheer sorcerous power. As we've seen in TTT, a Cishaurim with a truly strong heart - and therefore bears large quantities of "Water" - can unleash power dwarfing even the Scarlet Spires'. But the Dûnyain? What little emotion they have, they enslave under the yoke of the intellect. Moenghus could likely cast any Psukari spell ever divised, but he could pass very little power into them. In other words, as wonderful and intimidating as he seemed in conversation, just about any high-ranking Cishaurim would be able to squash him in a sorcerous duel. Finally, you ask what shining in the Third Sight means. The Cishaurim call themselves the Possessors of the Third Sight (because of the way they blind themselves), so I think it refers to Moenghus' abilities with the intellectual Psukhe spells, as well as the superior understanding of the Psukhe he must've developed after becoming Cishaurim. view post

posted 06 Feb 2006, 01:02 in Author Q & AAlso read TTT and puzzled - Warning : spoilers ! by Twayleph, Auditor

Yes, I recall that too. But since the Aporetic sorcerers devised the Chorae specifically for use of the Inchoroi, I think the Consult must've inherited a large quantity of Chorae anyway, and not necessarily because they reclaimed the Hoard. I admit that it's probable that they took it, I just want to be sure :) view post

posted 06 Feb 2006, 01:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestions that haunt me after just reading TTT. by Twayleph, Auditor

On why/how Cnaiur killed Moenghus : I won't say the scene wasn't confused/confusing, but it seems to me the explanation was there. Cnaiur told himself what seemed like hundreds of times that he "wandered trackless grounds" - in other words, that he could make whims of what moved him. He was convinced that this would be the downfall of Moenghus, and this is precisely what happened. As expected, Cnaiur's rage didn't hold against Moenghus's manipulation and insight, and he found himself loving him again. But Cnaiur was able to use his love - to use the Darkness that Comes Before, rather than tame it as the Dunyain do - in order to destroy Moenghus. In this instance, he managed to get himself to touch Moenghus with a Chorae out of love, even though he knew it was going to kill him. Of course, to hold such contradictory and absurd thoughts you need to be mad, but what with Cnaiur's state of mind during TTT that's really not a problem...That also explains why he both wept and rejoiced at Moenghus' death; he at once loved him (and therefore despaired of seeing him die) and hated him. I really don't think that Moenghus "needed Cnaiur's strenght". It was just part of the manipulation, to make him feel that he(Moe) needed Cnaiur just as much as Cnaiur needed him, in order to make his attraction surpass the obvious shame and madness of the affair. The question of why Achamian survived is actually the subject of a topic by itself, so I won't repeat myself here. I don't see what's awkward or weird about the scene where the Ciphrang goes to a Hundred Pillars to ask Achamian's whereabouts. Iyokus didn't - couldn't - know Achamian's location because he had left after the battle started, so Iyokus sent the Ciphrang into the camp to ask people. I don't think the Synthese was actually going to tell the boy a secret, it was just a trick to get his curiosity and to avoid him calling out for help, I think. My theory is that the Synthese was recruiting the boy to become a member of the Consult, but I'm really not sure. Nau-Cayuti thought he was searching for his concubine, Aulisi, even though as others have pointed out, this was just Seswatha's trick to get him to help steal the Heron Spear; it's written down under "Apocalypse" in the Glossary, p.413 in my Canadian edition TTT. view post

posted 06 Feb 2006, 01:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtExplanation for Achamian's survival?? by Twayleph, Auditor

I wonder what it was in my explanation that you didn't find satisfying. I think Iyokus had very good reasons to let Achamian live, not the least of which the fear of retribution if he died. Achamian was the Warrior-Prophet's Vizier, and the Consort herself witnessed that it was a Ciphrang that attacked Achamian, so Iyokus probably thought he'd be in a world of trouble if Achamian died. As for the "Eye for an Eye", I don't think it should be taken litterally, as the will to take out an eye. Achamian and Iyokus have a history of vengeance : first Iyokus and the Scarlet mission torture Achamian, then Achamian destroys the compound and nearly kills Iyokus. Iyokus takes out Xinemus' eyes, Achamian does the same to him. I think the only "unsettled score" that Iyokus still saw was the humiliation of being so easily overmatched by Achamian, so he proved in spectacular fashion that he, too, possessed immense power. That doesn't mean that Iyokus wanted to kill Achamian - no more than Achamian truly wished to kill Iyokus. In that perspective, the "trailing downward" simply means that the Cihprang let Achamian down, crippled and far from Shimeh (and the help he would find there), to ponder his defeat. view post

posted 06 Feb 2006, 12:02 in Author Q & AAlso read TTT and puzzled - Warning : spoilers ! by Twayleph, Auditor

Ah yes, found it. [quote:n5whr0se]Then there's the famed 'Chorae Hoard' of Sakarpus, and the far greater hoard amassed by the Consult in Golgotterath. [/quote:n5whr0se] I wonder how they managed to get it out of the grip of the Consult and still survive... anyway thanks for the info White Lord :) Oh and I also remember another question I forgot to ask; in the Glossary it says that Atrithau was founded on "anarcane" ground (I think it also says somewhere that's the reason it survived the Apocalypse). However I don't know what that word means and I haven't found it in the dictionnary; do you know what that would mean? Or maybe it's a typo, but I'm almost sure I saw it more than once... view post

Post-TTT interview posted 06 Feb 2006, 18:02 in Interviews and ReviewsPost-TTT interview by Twayleph, Auditor

Here is an interview made in December, I don't think the link was posted here already : [url:2gkolnim][/url:2gkolnim] Found it by accident while searching for Google; the interviewer seems to like Scott's work very much. I haven't read it all yet, but it looks like an interesting view on TTT and PoN as a whole. view post

posted 07 Feb 2006, 18:02 in Author Q & AAlso read TTT and puzzled - Warning : spoilers ! by Twayleph, Auditor

Ah, thanks a lot for your answers Scott. I hadn't seen it this way, but the idea of reversing the "real world" situation, where the revelations of science are replaced by those of the Warrior-Prophet, makes the worldview transition seem a lot less disappointing and reveals a new depht I hadn't seen. Very interesting tidbit about anarcane grounds, I expect we'll hear more of those very soon ! Like, a few years soon :) And I would indeed expect the Consult's sorcerous resources to be limited, since their goal is all about [i:2lsn3s1r]avoiding[/i:2lsn3s1r] damnation, and dying in combat just wouldn't do. And I guess I'll take your silence regarding the Circle of Nibel as an indication that it [i:2lsn3s1r]is[/i:2lsn3s1r] strictly AE material. I can live with that! view post

posted 08 Feb 2006, 23:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtExplanation for Achamian's survival?? by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:15mokjed] we never hear him wonder how he survived[/quote:15mokjed] Very true, but also from that point on we never hear him wonder at all. I think most of Achamian's previous cares were knocked out by the recent events. Especially since the state he woke up in can't have made him particularly happy to be alive, what with the Fevers and the new, "improved" version of the Dreams. All he cared about at that moment was to find Esmenet, not dwell in the events of the past few days. view post

posted 10 Feb 2006, 12:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtExplanation for Achamian's survival?? by Twayleph, Auditor

I'm really not sure I understand your reply, Highman. You ask what is a Ciphrang; if you did read the PoN trilogy through I think it should be obvious that it's a demon. There are plenty of mentions of it before the battle - during the battle of the Iothiah compound, before the siege of Shimeh, in Iyokus' dialogues...Daimotic sorcerers like Iyokus summon them from the Outside. [quote:5s77xqqj]or is it just something you are supposed to accept, like any of the sorcerous cants.[/quote:5s77xqqj] Supposed to accept? How are you "supposed to accept" sorcerous cants or Ciphrang? Please state what you mean more extensively. view post

posted 10 Feb 2006, 19:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtExplanation for Achamian's survival?? by Twayleph, Auditor

Ah, I understand better. Well in TWP they're named Daimotic Cants; I'm not sure they have a more precise name - perhaps the only difference between the summoning of different Demons would be the strenght of the incantations and the name of the Ciphrang included in the incantation. That, and the symbols inscribed unto the floor. As for they being Gnostic Cants, I'm pretty sure that Scott said that, though there were Gnostic Cants for the summoning of Agencies, the Anagogis has its own (presumably inferior) version of these cants. Since even Anagogic Cants seem able to summon the mightiest of the Ciphrang (Potents), I wonder in what way the Gnostic Cants would be superior... As for what they would look like...the arrival of the Ciphrang is described as a tempest, and it says light spills from Iyokus', not a very exhaustive decription, but it is consistent with Scott's style regarding physical descriptions - which I wouldn't want him to change. view post

posted 11 Feb 2006, 04:02 in The Thousandfold Thoughtfuture of PON by Twayleph, Auditor

I'm pretty sure that the third dualogy/trilogy will be set chronologically after AE - not during the First Apocalypse. Scott had planned at first a single trilogy, called "The Second Apocalypse", with PoN as the first tome, AE as the second and a third book, which Scott has refused to name yet. view post

posted 11 Feb 2006, 16:02 in The Thousandfold Thoughtfuture of PON by Twayleph, Auditor

That's great news, Mith! This is very soon, considering that Scott [i:ur7q9cvx]just[/i:ur7q9cvx] finished writing a trilogy and is working on Neuropath right now! It doesn't seem soon enough for those who just finished TTT and want more - like me! - but then it would never be soon enough :) By the way could you post a link to the exact page where you found this information? I've been searching on Google and on the Outlook website itself, but I haven't found that release date anywhere. view post

posted 13 Feb 2006, 12:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestions about Iyokus by Twayleph, Auditor

Well remember in TWP, it takes some time to summon Ciphrang; he needs to recite what looks like a very long Cants, he probably needs a lot of concentration to keep the Ciphrang under control and he has to draw a circle of symbol of runes across the floor. In other words, he needs time, concentration and being undisturbed for a few minutes - none of which you have when a Gnostic Schoolman assails you, especially by surprise. Besides, even if he had been able to summon a Ciphrang powerful enough to pose a real threat to Achamian, the Chorae archers surrounding them could've just struck it into salt. view post

posted 13 Feb 2006, 19:02 in Author Q & Ado chorea last by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:2li6b44w]if a chorea touchs one of the few, does the chorea survive the encounter[/quote:2li6b44w] Fortunately for the Three-Seas, yes they do. Chorae are inscribed with runes that dispel sorcery and kill sorcerers (note that there's a distinction between the Few and sorcerers), but the Chorae themselves don't seem to be affected by this. After all, they've existed for millenia and seem to work just fine. [quote:2li6b44w]Also how do the schools discover the few to traain them in socery[/quote:2li6b44w] Good question; I'd guess that perhaps the Schools regularly test the children of the surrounding cities to discover if they are of the Few. Despite the scriptural damnation of sorcerers, many would gladly leave their life of misery and poverty to access the power of sorcery - like Achamian, per example. But for those who don't know that they are of the Few, or don't want to reveal it, I don't know. The saying "Only the Few can see the Few" leads to confusion; it would be more accurate to say "Only the Few can see sorcerers". If you've never practised sorcery, then the only way to ascertain whether you're one of the Few, could to be by indirect measures such as the Wathi Doll in TWP. view post

The Nonmen Quya (spoilers) posted 14 Feb 2006, 02:02 in Author Q & AThe Nonmen Quya (spoilers) by Twayleph, Auditor

Hi Scott, I have a few questions regarding the Quya in light of what we've learned from TTT. The Quya are a sorcerer-caste of the Nonmen, whose sorcery is about as deadly as the Gnosis. We've also learned that the Quya forbade the use of the Aporos. So what prevented the Quya from utterly dominating Nonmen society ? It's been said several times that, if it weren't of the Chorae, sorcerers would have come to rule the Three-Seas. Well before the Cuno-Inchoroi Wars there weren't any Chorae, so what prevented the Quya from taking over? Perhaps they already did dominate, but then why would there be a distinct Ishrol caste and a Quya caste, if Quya and Nonman noble are the same? Perhaps the Quya's dominance is blunted because their warriors are so formidable in combat, but then the same could be said of their sorcerers. Also, now that there are thousands of Chorae in the world, have the Nonmen resigned themselves to their existence and started accumulating their own Chorae hoard, or do they still spurn all things Aporos? view post

posted 14 Feb 2006, 03:02 in Author Q & AThe Nonmen Quya (spoilers) by Twayleph, Auditor

I should've been more precise; I meant the human version of the Gnosis. It's true that the Quya taught the humans the Gnosis, but since the end of the Tutelage the sorcery of the Gnostic Schools and the Quya have become slightly different (for instance, in TTT Mekeritrig uses a "Quya variant" of a Thawa Ligature). What I meant was that, even though the two sorceries weren't identical, the Quya's sorcery (as practised in the days before the Tutelage) should still be similar in power to the Gnosis used by the Mandate - which is formidable, and should be more than powerful enough to dominate the mundane factions of a society. view post

posted 14 Feb 2006, 12:02 in Author Q & Ado chorea last by Twayleph, Auditor

It is relevant in that those who don't want to join, therefore won't reveal that they are of the Few, which means that the Schools would have to resort to indirect means, like the Wathi Doll. It seems somewhat tedious to ask every child in every village to pronounce a phrase, (and correct them when they stumble, force those who don't want to, etc.) In Achamian's case, he kept shouting "Atyersus! Atyersus!", and probably went back telling everyone in the village he was one of the Few, which would simplify the Mandate's job a lot. Just go in, test that one kid and beat his father senseless if it needs to be done. view post

posted 14 Feb 2006, 20:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNostalgia: Fav part of the trilogy? by Twayleph, Auditor

All the previously mentionned scenes were some of my favorites. I'd add all the Dreams of Seswatha, because to me they represent some of the best elements of the PoN series. They retake the old archetypes - the Prophecy, the terrible Old Wars, the costly victory, etc. - and then represent them in a much more powerful, real and immediate manner. In particular, Sauron (or Morgoth) might have been as powerful in Tolkien's universe as the No-God, but the [i:1q31aypo]manner[/i:1q31aypo] in which he's presented makes the No-God immeasurably more fascinating and terrifying. Dagliash, the Fields of Eleneot, the Plains of Mengedda, the Assault on Golgotterath...all of them jewels in my opinion. Apart from that, I also loved that scene starting when Proyas comes back to the encampment in TWP only to discover Saubon and the others are gone. It's not terribly significant plot-wise, but just the style of writing...I could just laugh my ass off reading the descriptions of Conphas' dialogue. view post

posted 14 Feb 2006, 20:02 in Author Q & AThe Nonmen Quya (spoilers) by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:h10om8pm]I wonder if there is some sort of social/religious stigma placed on Sorcery by the Non-men as well.[/quote:h10om8pm] Yes, I agree that religion might have something to do with this situation, although my intuition is that Nonmen, to the contrary of Men, might believe sorcery to be [i:h10om8pm]sacred[/i:h10om8pm], in a sense. But that's little more than speculation on my part. I'm all the more interested in the answer to that question, now that you've brought up it might be tied to the Nonmen's notion of worship. Unfortunately, I fear that might be exactly the reason why we [i:h10om8pm]won't[/i:h10om8pm] get an answer from Scott...:) view post

posted 15 Feb 2006, 22:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNostalgia: Fav part of the trilogy? by Twayleph, Auditor

I don't think it was so much a prediction as an observation, and perhaps a warning. Earlier in TTT Khellus said something along the lines of "You're my friend, you need never kneel before me". By saying that, Khellus was probably saying that Achamian had now severed all ties of friendship, and that he was on his own - perhaps meaning that he wouldn't stop the Mandate from hunting him, or guard him from the Consult. It sounds a lot like the conflict between Celmomas and Seswatha; both conflicts were over a loved one (Nau-Cayuti then, Esmenet now) and seperated the High King from his arcane advisor. view post

posted 16 Feb 2006, 17:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Dream that went wrong by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:275woc66]Seswatha has exerted no overt influence on events in the books, being present only through the Dreams, where he simply plays out events as they happened over and over.[/quote:275woc66] I would say that's a pretty big influence already, no? The Dreams don't just make Achamian's nights unpleasant, they [i:275woc66]define[/i:275woc66] him in more than one manner, as they do each and every Mandate Schoolman. It's because of Seswatha that the Mandate [i:275woc66]exists[/i:275woc66] at all - the whole plot of PoN would be entirely overturned if the Mandate was out of the picture. If you mean "overt influence" as being direct influence over the turn of current events...then what of Achamian's torture at the hands of the Scarlet Spires ? Achamian would've most certainly broken under torture if it wasn't of Seswatha's influence; he wouldn't have watched idly while they blinded Xinemus...Of course, it's not the same as appearing in a big flash of light and burning everything around him to cinders, but then neither was Seswatha's intervention in TTT flashy. He just blocked Achamian from speaking : a subtle, invisible intervention that nonetheless had important consequences - just like his intervention in TWP. Although the scene was hazy, personally it just makes me want to learn more about it, I think it was well-written and intentionally ambiguous. view post

posted 17 Feb 2006, 17:02 in Author Q & AThe Nonmen Quya (spoilers) by Twayleph, Auditor

Ah well, at least you prepared us for it...Like Conphas said, answers are like opium, and with a glossary that takes up a hundred pages...definitely count me addicted ! But really, all my questions were AE-spoilers? Even the Chorae one? I like the implications of that....;) view post

posted 17 Feb 2006, 18:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtInchoroi Origins/Aims by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:d1xezfok] The question is, what is it that makes Men so special when it comes to linking the world to the Outside?[/quote:d1xezfok] I'd say the fact that they have souls. Scott already said "only the rare animal on Eärwa grows a soul". In this case, the implication is that on Eärwa only Men and Nonmen had a soul, therefore only they counted when linking the world to the Outside. For that matter, maybe even the Inchoroi did, although perhaps their souls are too dirty for that :) As for whether the Consult's business is sealing Eärwa or sealing the universe containing the planet on which Eärwa is located, good question. I think that the Outside's influence is restricted to Eärwa, since it is directly fueled by the number of souls on the world. As you get farther and farther away from the planet, the influence of the Outside would diminish until it becomes irrelevant. Otherwise, any single planet with enough souls would be enough to bathe the entire universe in the Outside's influence, and that doesn't seem right. It would make the Consult's job impossible as long as there is even a single inhabited planet apart from Eärwa. view post

posted 17 Feb 2006, 18:02 in Author Q & AWorldhorn & Heron Spear by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:348hw5rk]There is a (somewhat weak, concerning the crushing and repeated victories of the Apocalyptic Consult) justification in the glossary regarding why the No-God took the field[/quote:348hw5rk] I don't know why you call the justification weak; even though the Consult won many victories, that doesn't mean they emerged unscathed from these battles. Before the No-God's advent the High North did win some victories of their own, and after that...well invading and destroying one Norsirai nation after another would thin just about any army, even one as huge as the No-God's I think. [quote:348hw5rk] How did Seswatha know he would need the Spear?[/quote:348hw5rk] Because it was mankind's only hope. As long as the No-God lived, there could be no more births, and that means the utter annihilition of mankind within a few decades. The No-God had to be killed someday, and the Heron Spear was the only weapon powerful enough to defeat it. Even if Seswatha wasn't sure when, if ever, the No-God would take the field, he had to try to steal it or just resign himself to seeing humanity die for certain. [quote:348hw5rk]it is also not quite clear to me why Seswatch needed N-C so much that he had to lie to get him to come[/quote:348hw5rk] Well I'm sure Seswatha needed [i:348hw5rk]someone[/i:348hw5rk] with him; as it was said in TTT, he couldn't use sorcery without attracting the attention of the Maegendda. A sorcerer who can't use sorcery isn't much use...As for why it had to be Nau-Cayuti, not sure why it had to be him precisely, but it was said that he was the High North's greatest hero, so I imagine it was only logical to use his help when undertaking such a perilous quest. view post

posted 23 Feb 2006, 17:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtInchoroi Origins/Aims by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:2uifewgd]wasn't it mentioned somewhere that there were no live births during the Apocalypse even among animals or did I misread that? [/quote:2uifewgd] Actually Scott said the opposite, in answer to a query by Cynical Cat. CC : [quote:2uifewgd]I was thinking about Mog-Pheru and the eleven barren years that resulted when he stocked the Earth. This is bad enough for humans, but for shorter lived animals it would have been devestating [...][/quote:2uifewgd] Scott : [quote:2uifewgd]Since the Nonmen no longer reproduce, it only affected humans. The idea has been that only the rare animal ever 'awakens' enough to develop a soul in Earwa, but that's not something I've ever explored to date.[/quote:2uifewgd] So the implication is that only beings with souls were affected. Like White Lord said, the No-God might've made an exception on his followers - which would explain why the Scylvendi would rally to him - but somehow that strikes me as implausible. The No-God seems a force of chaos and void, hardly capable and/or willing to make such distinctions in his stillbirth-power. view post

posted 23 Feb 2006, 19:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtInchoroi Origins/Aims by Twayleph, Auditor

You're welcome :) The exact link to the post is this : One thing EE : yes, Scott only mentioned the Nonmen as another species with a soul, but I'm not sure that's an absolute proof that they are they only other species with a soul. After all, he didn't mention the Inchoroi either, and we're pretty sure that [i:1k9pu6m9]they[/i:1k9pu6m9] have souls. Of course, since only Aurang and Aurax are left, the stillbirth wouldn't have much of an effect on them anyway, but then perhaps Wracu and Bashrang can't reproduce outside of the Tekne, either. I [i:1k9pu6m9]do[/i:1k9pu6m9] believe that all creations of the Tekne, apart from that one skin-spy, are ordinarily soulless, I'm just not sure that quote alone can confirm that fact as 100% sure. view post

posted 24 Feb 2006, 20:02 in Author Q & ABack-er or Bake-er? by Twayleph, Auditor

Scott answers that question here : [url:751ukr7c][/url:751ukr7c] It's pronounced as "Bake-er". view post

posted 28 Feb 2006, 03:02 in Author Q & AAkka and the Ciphrang - TTT spoilers by Twayleph, Auditor

Apart from the fact that Scott probably knows what happens in his own books :) Iyokus isn't dead; we see him at the end of the book. view post

posted 02 Mar 2006, 03:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtExplanation for Achamian's survival?? by Twayleph, Auditor

Abyss : although at first, I too believed that Iyokus had intentionally spared Achamian, from what Scott says here : it seems that Achamian really did survive the attack on his own. Also, I have a very hard time believing that one of Iyokus' demons could possess him. First off the Ciphrang seem very far off from the archetype of the "bad angel" possessing you and driving you to evil. Besides, I'm sure Seswatha wouldn't stand for another intruder inside Achamian's mind. Diem Kaye : I think there are very many reasons why Achamian took out Iyokus' eyes instead of using the Cants of Compulsion. First off I don't see putting out his eyes as being an act of vengeance on Achamian's part, but rather on Xinemus'. And like Achamian said, the compelled soul in no way feels compelled ; Xinemus kept blaming the loss of his eyes, and never even seemed to consider it was the Compulsions that drove him to his pathetic state, so for him the blinding seemed a far more satisfactory vengeance. Also, a passage in TTT seemed to indicate that the Cants of Compulsion weren't Achamian's specialty. Perhaps the Mandate deliberatly scorns them, seeing as how it was the Maengecca's specialty and they keep Dreaming of Seswatha being tortured with them. Finally, I don't think just casting the Cants of Compulsion is sufficient to break someone's mind; it's [i:2nbchjl3]using [/i:2nbchjl3]these Cants to drive the victim to acts contrary to his/her nature that can eventually break down his/her mind. Even though Eleäzaras gave him for death to Achamian's hand, I don't think the Scarlet Spires would just stand seeing Iyokus walking around and doing Achamian's bidding, or that Achamian would relish this sort of manipulation. view post

posted 02 Mar 2006, 23:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSchools of the 3 seas by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:94m7yilo]There is reference to the Anagogic schools of the Circle and Mysunsai in the Glossary which i don't think we ever saw in the books. [/quote:94m7yilo] I don't believe the Circle of Nibel was mentioned anywhere apart from the Glossary (and they didn't even have an entry for themselves). The Mysunsai, we've definitely seen though. Think about Skalateas, that mercenary who was present at the scene in the Imperial catacombs in TDTCB, and was later killed by Eleäzaras himself in TWP. From the Glossary, the Mysunsai are the most numerous of the Schools but not the most powerful by far. I agree that the Mandate is now the most powerful of the Schools. Even before the Scarlet Spires' destruction, they were almost as powerful as the SS. But I don't believe that all the Scarlet magi of rank were present in the Holy War; if there[i:94m7yilo] is[/i:94m7yilo] a passage where Eleäzaras says the contrary, could you post it? view post

posted 07 Mar 2006, 18:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSchools of the 3 seas by Twayleph, Auditor

[quote:21xxa5gr]The Circle of Nibel was the only other Major School in the Three Seas besides the SS, IS, Mysunsai, and Mandate. Which means that the Circle of Nibel would likely be the primary school of the Three Seas, with regards to numbers. [/quote:21xxa5gr] I don't know how you can justify that assumption, since we know next to nothing about the Circle of Nibel, save that it is a Major School. Also even before the Holy War, the Mysunsai were "perhaps the largest" School; now that the Scarlet Spires are nearly destroyed, they are almost certainly the most numerous. [quote:21xxa5gr]The Mandate has ALWAYS been the premier school when it came to power. [/quote:21xxa5gr] What makes you say that? Even Achamian called the Scarlet Spires the most powerful School in the Three-Seas, and he of all people should be aware of his own School's strenght. Sure, one on one the Mandati would be more powerful than the Scarlet magi, but the Scarlet Spires had far more vast numbers, legions of Javreh and an entire nation at their disposal. I agree with you that the Scarlet Spires probably aren't extinguished. I'm not so sure about the fate of the Imperial Saik. Aren't they all about following the Compactorium, which binds all Schools to the Aspect-Emperor? Now that Kellhus is Aspect-Emperor, I'm pretty sure they'll join him, perhaps become the first Anagogic School to be taught the Gnosis. If not, they would still be bound to the Nansur Empire, which is still very much alive (although reduced by warfare). I don't see why they would join Maithanet; in fact, I wonder if Maithanet will have any substantial role left, apart from presenting a familiar face to the world for those who aren't quite ready to submit to the newcomer Anasûrimbor. view post

Consult vs Mandate posted 13 Mar 2006, 18:03 in Author Q & AConsult vs Mandate by Twayleph, Auditor

Hi Scott, these are a few questions regarding the recent past of Eärwa that've been nagging me for a while. The Consult and the Mandate stopped skirmishing openly about 300 years ago, correct ? My questions is, how was it then when the Consult and the Mandate [i:2kjissml]did [/i:2kjissml]skirmish? Were there spectacular, devastating sorcerous battles or, to the opposite, did it only involve intrigue and spying with occasional, low-profile conflicts when their agents were uncovered? Were the clashes open enough for the whole Three-Seas to be aware of them or was the Consult already slipping into legend back then? Was the Mandate respected because of their struggle, or were they already being scorned by the great factions? Were they aided by the Anagogic Schools from time to time, or did they fight on their own for 1700 years ? Also, what was, exactly, the aim of these battles; was it simply the Mandate and the Consult attempting to exterminate each other, or was it more of a strategic effort by both Schools to gain foothold, per example, in the Middle-North? Sorry for the horde of questions, but I figure among all of them, there's bound to be at least a few you can answer without giving spoilers :) view post

posted 14 Mar 2006, 01:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlowing Hands by Twayleph, Auditor

The onta is described as the fabric of existence, and as such it would be omnipresent within Eärwa. The sorcerous Mark, which does seem vanish over time (as far as places are concerned, not individuals though), is simply a particular, unnatural state of the onta. Therefore it seems perfectly acceptable that you could apprehend the onta (and therefore realize you're one of the Few) even if you live your whole life without going anywhere near sorcery. As to the theory that most Dûnyain are of the Few...I don't think the Dûnyain would especially favor the Few, since they don't believe in sorcery; in fact they might even see the "experience" of the onta as a sign of madness, and exterminate those who live it, thus gradually culling the Few from their order. I believe Khellus and Moënghus to be the exception, rather than the rule. view post

posted 17 Mar 2006, 13:03 in Off-Topic Discussionyou have to hear this! by Twayleph, Auditor

Hilarious ! Great story Edge of Certainty, I'm sure Scott will be proud :D view post

posted 17 Mar 2006, 18:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHelp finding post on afterlife by Twayleph, Auditor

Good summarization by EE, still I'll post the link in case (found with a simple use of the Search function) : ... redemption It seems it's not simply an Inrithi belief that there are three possibilities after death, it's a reality in Eärwa. The Scylvendi simply believe that since Lokung is dead, neither Damnation nor Salvation are possible anymore. I'm not so sure Lokung could grant these choices to them anyway,seeing as he's not supposed to be a God. view post

posted 25 Apr 2006, 12:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThousand Fold Though Revisited by Twayleph, Auditor

Here's how I understood it; the TTT is simply the name of a new faith, created by Moenghus and Khellus in order to unify mankind, which was divided by the conflicts between Inrithism and Fanimry. But like Moenghus said, the creation a new system of beliefs is so complex as to almost become a living thing - hence the name, the "Thousandfold Thought" which refers to the immensely complex calculations involved. If the third book is named after this, I believe it's because we've seen the "birth" of TTT, with Khellus's triumph and, presumably, the birth of a new theocratic empire. I'm not sure if TTT represents something else, a more abstract concept - I think the answer depends on wether you believe Khellus is really a prophet. view post

posted 13 May 2006, 22:05 in Author Q & AMen and Nonmen Breeding by Twayleph, Auditor

Well we already know the offspring of Men and Nonmen aren't sterile, since the Anasûrimbor lineage origins from the union of a Nonmen and a human woman. I think the reasons would be more political and religious; since Men try to kill Nonmen on sight, there would be certain difficulties to breed Men and Nonmen. Furthermore, I have the feeling Nonmen consider themselves superior to Men, and perhaps wouldn't consent to such a union. view post

posted 11 Jul 2006, 21:07 in The Thousandfold Thoughtnonmen by Twayleph, Auditor

..Yes there will, as is evident from the very beginning of TDTCB. Otherwise, quoting from the "Compendium of the [i:2gqyx5vo]First[/i:2gqyx5vo] Holy War" would make little sense. view post

posted 22 Jul 2006, 10:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestions by Twayleph, Auditor

I don't have the book with me, but I definitely remember a reference to the Emwama, the "soft-hearted Men" who were enslaved to the Nonmen. Scott actually refers to them here : [url:brfvi3d3][/url:brfvi3d3] Aurang also refers to them, when he says that "Men were little more than loping beasts in the First Wars"; he must have been referring to the human slaves the Nonmen used to fight for them, since the Breaking of the Gates occured after the Cuno-Inchoroi Wars. view post

posted 15 Oct 2006, 18:10 in Author Q & AGnosis vs. Anagogis, and sorcery in general by Twayleph, Auditor

-----------TTT SPOILERS------------- I'm sure that it isn't the fact that the Gnosis is spoken in a Nonman tongue that makes it more powerful; in TTT it's said that it is the meanings that are different, not the words. Speaking another tongue is simply a way to isolate sorcerous meanings from common-day meanings, which is also practiced by the Anagogic Schools. Sorcery is all about assimilating the Truth, and what's hinted - although never explained fully - is that the Gnosis uses abstractions in order to understand Truth, whereas the Anagogis is restricted to analogies. The way I understand it, an Anagogic sorcerer will formulate in his mind what he knows of fire, and try to replicate it in reality, whereas a Gnostic sorcerer will understand what fire [i:2eex6rmp]is[/i:2eex6rmp], and conjure the essence of it. view post

posted 16 Oct 2006, 19:10 in Author Q & AGnosis vs. Anagogis, and sorcery in general by Twayleph, Auditor

Concerning what differientiates sorcerers that use the same school of sorcery (Anagogis, Gnosis, Psûhke and Aporos), Scott has this to say : [quote:udj9i8ov]Differences between sorcerers sharing the same Metaphysics is determined in much the same way differences in any profession are: native ability, knowledge, training, and experience.[/quote:udj9i8ov] Also, concerning what Stephen said : [quote:udj9i8ov]What I'm wondering is if there are practical effects one Art can accomplish that the other simply can't.[/quote:udj9i8ov] Unknown. From what we've seen, the Anagogic sorcerers can do pretty much the same thing as the Gnostic sorcerers : combat spells, conjuring demons, communication through dreams... It's just that the Gnostic sorcers do it so much better. If you're trying to light a fire in winter, then sure the Anagogic sorcerer will be just as useful. But in combat, the power and efficiency of the Gnosis will prevail. Since the Three-Seas is a pretty hot place :P that is the aspect that is usually the most important. [quote:udj9i8ov]Kellhus' Cant of Transposing, requires a second inutteral. Could you do this with Anagogic sorcery? or the Pshuke?[/quote:udj9i8ov] Good question, and one I'd given little thought so far. Personally, I think Kellhus's prowesses can't be replicated by the Anagogis, and even less by the Psûhke. But I just know too little about the metaphysics of the Anagogis or the Psûhke - or even the Gnosis - to tell for sure. Like so many said, we'll see in AE..Scott left many unknowns about sorcery, and I'm sure it was completely intentional. view post

posted 17 Oct 2006, 16:10 in Author Q & AGnosis vs. Anagogis, and sorcery in general by Twayleph, Auditor

I'll also answer to the propositions that Stephen made of using sorcery for constructive purposes. Blasting though mountains using sorcery is, I'm sure, a reference to the historical use of dynamite, yet I think there is a fundamental difference between the two. Dynamite had to be created by specialists, but it could be used by trained workers (I believe ; I'm not too savvy on the subject). We have seen a few sorcerous artefacts, but in the main I think only sorcerers themselves can wield the full devastating effect of sorcery, which means they would have to do all the work themselves. I think sorcerers are far too proud to submit themselves to public works. As for using them to communicate at a distance, well we have seen examples of this in TWP (the communication between Xerius and Skauras) and in TTT as the Nansur and the Men of the Tusk used sorcerers to communicate with the homeland. I would think it's not widespread because : 1) they are proud - if you can chose between summoning dragons and serving as a human radio emitter, which would you do ? 2) they are the [i:2mk39pd7]Few[/i:2mk39pd7] 3) sorcerers tend to serve their own interests first of all, as demonstrated by the existence of Schools 4) the use of sorcery in battle, as we've seen, is is so exceedingly important that it tends to trump other considerations. view post

posted 19 Mar 2007, 17:03 in Author Q & AAspect-Emperor status by Twayleph, Auditor

Thank you very much for digging that out Gyrehead, it's great to finally have news on AE ! I really wonder why Scott hasn't been around in such a long time. It's great to have a synopsis of The Great Ordeal, at least. view post

posted 19 Mar 2007, 20:03 in The Darkness That Comes Beforejust read the book.... by Twayleph, Auditor

I was waiting on someone to go to the movies and decided to spend some time in a nearby bookstore. The books's cover really intrigued me, so I picked it up and started reading it; it was so otherworldly, so unlike any fantasy I'd read before that I [i:21dw16kp]had [/i:21dw16kp]to read that book, so I bought it on the spot (something I very rarely do). That was one of the luckiest moves I've made. I cannot count the times I have read and re-read the books, they outstrip anything I'd read before. I had actually never read Steven Erikson's books before, but since he praised PoN he seemed like a smart guy to me, which encouraged me to read Gardens of the Moon :) view post

posted 28 Mar 2007, 12:03 in Author Q & AThe Nonmen Quya (spoilers) by Twayleph, Auditor

I liked that discussion as well. Which misconception are you referring to, though ? This quote refers to the Siqu - which I don't see how they concern this discussion - and mentions that the Quya are a hereditary caste of Nonmen sorcerers, which I had mentionned (except the part that their caste is hereditary). view post

posted 28 Mar 2007, 18:03 in Author Q & AThe Nonmen Quya (spoilers) by Twayleph, Auditor

Ah, I see now. But I think all Nonmen magi are indeed Quya, as supported by the definition in the TTT dictionnary : [quote:1or9u3b3]Quya - The generic name for Nonmen Magi[/quote:1or9u3b3] Siqu isn't another caste of Nonmen, it was simply the title given to Nonmen advisors to mankind during the Tutelage, if I remember correctly. The question of why some individuals belong to the Few and others don't [i:1or9u3b3]is[/i:1or9u3b3] fascinating; I still find it hard to understand why it would be hereditary, per example, given what we've learned in TTT. A good subject for a new thread in the TTT forum perhaps :) view post

posted 29 Mar 2007, 15:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by Twayleph, Auditor

It is confirmed that the Anasûrimbor do have Nonmen blood : [quote:1ecp49ju]820 - The Rape of Omindalea. Jiricet, a Nonman Siqû to the God-King Nincarû-Telesser II (787-828), rapes Omindalea (808-825), first daughter of Sanna-Neorjë (772-858) of the house of Anasûrimbor in 824, and then flees to Ishterebinth. When Nil’giccas refuses to return Jiricet to Ûmerau, Nicarû-Telesser II expels all Nonmen from the Ûmeri Empire. Omindalea conceives by the union and dies bearing Anasûrimbor Sanna-Jephera (825- 1032), called ‘Twoheart.’ After a house-slave conceives by him, Sanna-Jephera is adopted by Sanna-Neorjë as his heir. [/quote:1ecp49ju] view post

posted 03 Apr 2007, 14:04 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeYour favourite character? by Twayleph, Auditor

I thought the passage where Conphas was describing how Saubon had decided to "make the most of Proyas' absence" to be particularly funny. I could just picture him laughing at Proyas, who probably had smoke coming out of his ears. view post

posted 03 Apr 2007, 18:04 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeYour favourite character? by Twayleph, Auditor

Khellus' depiction of the strategic meetings between Proyas and Cnaiur had me laughing out loud :) view post

posted 05 Apr 2007, 16:04 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Kellhus's State of Mind by Twayleph, Auditor

The author did answer that question. Once again, the Search function comes to the rescue ;) [quote:39hbvia7]Before the First Apocalypse the Dunyain were a heretical community of Kuniuric ascetics (originally based in Sauglish) who sought enlightenment (the Absolute) through the study and practice of reason (the Logos). They were a young movement, but they had already suffered sporadic persecution for some time. But since the Kunniat faith practiced by the High Norsirai was not hierarchical, no concerted effort was made to punish their atheism. [/quote:39hbvia7] view post


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