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Q. Sertorius Commoner | joined 26 October 2005 | 9 posts


The Few and Kellhus posted 26 October 2005 in The Warrior ProphetThe Few and Kellhus by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

I don't have the books on me, but isn't there a part in TWP where the crow-Inchoroi comforts the badly hurt wounded Sarcellus (burned by the Chisaurim in the first major battle of the Holy War) by telling him to imagine a world with no births, no joy, etc.

Now Scott's a pretty tricky guy, but it's going to be awfully hard to somehow paint the Consult in anything but a negative light. Scott is a "shades of gray" kind of author; however, since some of his characters clearly are good (notice the absence of scare quotes), why is it beyond belief that some of his characters are evil? Achamian, Esmi, Seswatha, Xinemus, and (for that matter) Proyas are all people who consistently try to do the right thing. although this does not mean they don't sometimes tragically make the wrong choices.

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Like father like son? posted 26 October 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtLike father like son? by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

There are just too many unknown variables at this point.

That Moenghus is Mallahet is pretty much the only theory discussed in this thread that is anyway near being certain, thus the rest of my post will follow this assumption.

For the Consult, it is clear that the Holy War's purpose is to wipe out the Chisaurim. That vast numbers of Inrithi and Fanim will be killing each other instead of their true enemy is undoubtedly a helpful but merely a side benefit. (On a related note, depending on what the Consult plan for after the war, they are also forging a dangerous enemy. Although lots of Inrithi have perished, the core of an extremely dangerous army has been formed. Think Caesar after his conquest of Gaul, after fighting nonstop for seven years, his men were all but invincable.)

I really am curious as to the truth behind the assassination of the old head of the Scarlet Spires. It beggars belief that the Consult was not involveved in some capacity. From what I remember, the assassination was the opening salvo in the war not just another skirmish in an ongoing feud. If Moenghus ordered it, than he must have some heck of a reason. Occam's Razor seems to dictate that the Consult ordered it. Too much benefit is gained by them. Now there is that little problem of how the Consult was able to trick the Scarlet Spires that the Chisaurim were behind it, but that seems (to me at least) far less of a stretch than Moenghus purposefully directing a 300 k army with the most powerful anagogic school accompanying directly against himself.

RiderOnTheStorm-Divine Interventionn is not always a bad thing. I think it depends on how subtley it's done. Tolkien does it pretty well in The Lord of the Rings, for example. Frodo was meant to find the Ring, Gandalf was sent back, Gollum tripping, etc. Again, discretion is the key. So far, I think Scott's entirely capable of that level of subtlety, if divine intervention is what he's going for.

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Like father like son? posted 26 October 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtLike father like son? by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

Tattooed Hand,

Ah, but doesn't that assume that Moenghus is not only the enemy of the Consult but is also intimate with a rather esoteric group of prophecies. Remember, Kellhus had no knowledge of what being an Arasurimbor means until his discussion with Achamian. As far as we know, the only people with knowledge of the Harbringer are the Mandati, a rather tight-lipped group. It is entirely possible that Moenghus learned of the the prophecies from a different source, but that is pure guesswork.

I agree with you that, based on what we know of Kellhus, Moenghus is entirely capable of killing vast amounts of people for the shortest path. At the same time, anyone brilliant enough to perceive that his direst enemies attacking him with 300 k soldiers and the most powerful anagogic school is to his advantage is probably capable of coming up with a slightly less hazardous plan.

On a side note, that Moenghus would allow the Holy War's water supply to be destroyed is a troubling, but perhaps not insurmountable, issue for those thinking that the Holy War has always been his.

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Like father like son? posted 01 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtLike father like son? by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

anor277,

That's absolutely brilliant. I remember reading that passage before but only thinking about the physical aspect of it. While it's entirely possible that Moenghus only interacted with Sranc, we finally have a plausible reason to consider him an enemy of the Consult. Amazing job.

Gosh I can't wait til TTT come out.

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Like father like son? posted 02 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtLike father like son? by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

anor277,

I agree that it is far too early to to come to any conclusions. It's just nice to have a piece of evidence that makes it a possibility that Moenghus is an enemy of the Consult. It seems that a number of theories posited on this thread simply assumed that he was the Consult's enemy without any grounding at all.

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Serious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... posted 03 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSerious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

Mathainet as Moenghus's son--that's a new theory to me. It's entirely possible. At the very least, the quick rise of of Mathainet can easily be explained by some tie to Moenghus; however, this theory still leaves Mathainet's ability to know that Achamian was a sorceror unexplained.

Mathainet as Consult spy. I just don't see it. In my opinion, his letter to Proyas makes that scenario all but impossible. Yes, that Mathainet knew Achamian was a sorceror could be explained by him being a skin spy, but the letter still wouldn't square.

From what I've read, we only know three ways to positively identify a sorceror: to be a sorceror oneself, to be a skin spy (although this would only seem to work for identifying Mandati), and to touch someone with a chorae. Now, we obviously know that Mathainet didn't touch Achamian with a chorae. As I said previously, I think his letter to Proyas precludes Mathainet from being a skin spy. Finally, since Achamian didn't see any stain, we know he's not a sorceror. Thus, we're left with absolutely nothing.

Since I've arrived at such a large impasse, I've decided it's offbeat theory time. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Here it is: Mathainet is a Moenghus plant who has learned (from Moenghus) how to be a Chisaurim without plucking out the old eyeballs. I don't seriously think this is the answer to the puzzle, but it does provide a way for Mathainet to be able to see Achamian as well as providing a reason for his sparing of Achamian and his willingness to partner with the Scarlet Spires.

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Serious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... posted 04 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSerious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

zarathustra,

Inrau was a sorceror, as his fight with the Consult proved. I think he rips out someone's heart and then uses the blood as a weapon.

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Serious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... posted 08 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSerious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

Spamoram,

Where does this College of the Luthymae come from? I feel I'm pretty well versed in the books, but I've never heard of them before. Is this something Scott's told us on this board somehwere?

As you pointed out, the Withi doll incident proves that Kellhus could belong to Few if he so chooses; however, I am unfamiliar with any passages that detail Kellhus' ability to see the Few or any of their cants.

I really don't think that people with the ability to be sorcerors but never practice can see the Few. Otherwise, Achamian's schock when Mathainet realizes he's a sorceror is inexplicable.

Again, I have no knowledge of the Luthymae, but I would reason that the "witch hunters" are made up of sorcerors who have uttered a single cant and then foresworn socerery for ever.

anor277,

Isn't a possible explanation of the absence of Chigra (Seswatha) in Inrau results from Inrau leaving the Mandati before he touched Seswatha's Heart? Thus he could still have learned cants but just hadn't become a full Mandate Sorceror.

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Serious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... posted 08 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSerious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... by Q. Sertorius, Commoner

anor277,

Thanks for the info. I guess I should read more carefully. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

The problem regarding Mathainet can be put thusly. It is not that he knew Achamian was a sorceror but that Achamian was Achamian--an unusual piece of information for a Shria to hold. This recognition of Achamian as Achamian points us toward regarding Mathainet as a skin spy (Chigra and all that). Yet, Mathainet spares Achamian when he was within his grasp and then orders Proyas to aid him. These two actions do not seem to square with Mathainet as Consult.

It is entirely possible that the Consult wants Achamian alive for some reason, but Skeaos didn't seem to get that particular memo . . . Also, it's probably not in Mathainet's best interest, if he is a member of the Consult, to twice act suspiciously against the tenets of the Inrithi faith before a member of the one group organized around your extermination.

These two contradictory actions are a seemingly unsolvable. If I had to put money on whether Mathainet is Consult, I would still go with no. Reasoning away Mathainet's recognition of Achamian as Achamian seems easier than reasoning away Mathainet's aiding of the Mandate.

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