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posts by Rhadamanth Commoner | joined 28 May 2009 | 5

Incariol, what does it mean? posted 02 Aug 2009, 03:08 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Rhadamanth, Commoner

I've been trying to figure out what this name means by looking at other Nonmen names for things at the back of TTT. The only places where the names are somewhat similar are under Ishterebinth (Exalted Stronghold) where it says it was also called Ishoriol (Exalted Hall). My guess is that -iol means hall (or perhaps riol does) because the translation exalted is shared by them as well as Ishual( meaning Exalted Grotto) but they only match on the -ish prefix. The other parts are -In and -car which are found under Incu-Holoinas( Ark-of-the-skies) and Inchoroi (People of emptiness) guessing that -in means of. The only thing that had -car in it was Cara-Sincurimoi (Angel of Endless Hunger) what the Nonmen called the No-God. Just going by the way it looks, I'm guessing Cara means Angel and Sincurimoi means endless hunger. Although there is an -in there which may be the of part. So put them together and you get Angel of the Hall which doesn't seem to mean anything but Cil-Aujas was called the Dark Halls and Incariol (who really seems like the Nonman Kellhus meets at the end of the prologue of The Darkness that Comes Before, his mannerisms are similar, the whole rolling his head on the pivot of his chin thing they share) knew the ruler of Cil-Aujas (can't remember his name but he talked to the ghost before it possessed him and they had a short conversation where they seemed to talk of damnation, the King asks how could they forget and Incariol says he never did, which seems that his sympathies lie with the Consult if he isn't already a member) and finally some of the scenes where Akka is reliving Seswatha's torment under Mekeritrig, Seswatha says that Mekeritrig was once one of the brightest, or something similar, before his fall which made me think of Lucifer being the brightest angel before his fall which brought me back to the translation (not very good I know, I'm a biologist not a linguist) of Angel of the Hall. Am I way off track here? Sometimes R. Scott Bakker makes things really obvious (thinking of the whole Mallahet=Moenghus thing which was really obvious, so much so that I dismissed it until TTT.) so perhaps he is giving us a few little clues that seem fairly obvious but easily dismissed if we think too hard about it. view post

Re: Incariol, what does it mean? posted 02 Aug 2009, 14:08 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Rhadamanth, Commoner

Yeah but Mimara and Akka have a conversation about how all Nonmen look alike and the only way he knew the statue was that the name was on it. He mentions that they look different to each other but not to humans. I think Akka also wondered why he didn't know the name and not the face of Incariol. As to the reason why Incariol, if he is the same as Kellhus' opponent, gave up his skin cloak perhaps the Consult asked him to keep an eye out on Achamian because they know Achamian knows something about Kellhus and the Dunyain and the only way to get the information is to follow him because torture is useless. Who needs a skin spy when you have a Nonman spy. Also, having a very powerful Nonman sorceror is a fairly simple way to make any Sranc encounters look worse than they are because Incariol could destroy them if he uses his full abilities. So what would look like a fair attempt at killing the travelers isn't really. I'm sure Akka and Incariol could destroy any wayward Sranc tribes not under the Consult's immediate control. The rest they can have ignore the group as it makes its way to Sauglish. view post

Re: Incariol, what does it mean? posted 03 Aug 2009, 19:08 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Rhadamanth, Commoner

Thanks for the replies. I thought my translation was a little too easy and as I've just begun looking into linguistics for fun (still trying to find a good book to start with) I figured I'd just throw it out there to see what others might say. I looked for the other page (because I remember there being one) but couldn't find it. Mainly because I haven't had the internet regularly and have had to rely on school and libraries for access rather than my own so I didn't come here often enough to sign up until recently. I await your comments Thorsten and others. view post

Re: Incariol, what does it mean? posted 15 Aug 2009, 18:08 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Rhadamanth, Commoner

Fascinating reading Thorsten. I think you are on the right track. So if Incariol is from ' hall of the sky ', are there any references to where Mekeritrig (who seems likely to be Incariol, IMHO) is from? Do you the the ' hall of the sky ' is in any way a reference to the ' ark of the sky ' ? On a similar note, does anyone else think Kellhus may have translated Auja-Gilcunni (the lost ground tongue of the nonmen)? I'm not sure if it would be worthwhile but there seemed to be hints in the books that it hadn't been translated...yet. Would it give any advantage? I'm not too sure about the metaphysics of sorcery and language. I doubt Kellhus would have had much trouble translating it since he knew of at least three Nonman mansions where he might find sources and given his ease with languages. One last thing, during Kellhus' encounter with the Nonman at the beginning of Darkness, the Nonman says " I see that you are a student, knowledge is power eh?" when Kellhus merely looks at him without fear or expression. At first this didn't mean much to me but as I was perusing the glossary I found this: " Following its founding in 684 by Sos-Pranimura ( the greatest student of Gin' yursis) the school of Mangaecca pursued a predatory ethos, regarding [b:173297l9]knowledge as the embodiment of power[/b:173297l9]." Did the Nonman think Kellhus was somehow connected to the Mangaecca? Do the Dunyain have roots connected to the Mangaecca? Perhaps they are an offshoot of some early (pre-Consult) Mangaecca thinkers? Any other ideas what this little exchange meant? view post

Re: Incariol, what does it mean? posted 27 Aug 2009, 21:08 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Rhadamanth, Commoner

Does Achamian speak Ihrimsu? I thought he spoke a different version for sorcery. Perhaps he doesn't know the etymology of Ihrimsu or Bakker just doesn't want him to tell us yet. Sometimes his hints are fairly obvious though, I mean come on Mallahet = Moenghus? Who didn't see that coming? All the hints were there. I don't know if Incariol is Mekeritrig (or whether Mekeritrig is the one whom Kellhus meets) but it seems like a nice little circle. Plus, the conversation between Incariol and the Ghost under the Mountain seemed to hint that Incariol knew his people were damned and that he didn't forget like the rest of them. I wonder if either one Mekeritrig, Incariol, and the unknown one Kellhus meets were part of the group that slaughtered the humans near the ruins of Myclai at the end of TWP? view post


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