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Athjeari Peralogue | joined 29 May 2008 | 63 posts

Kellhus, his divinity, and his "good guy" status. posted 03 June 2008 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus, his divinity, and his "good guy" status. by Athjeari, Peralogue

I think this is a sensative topic. Kellhus is motivated by his goal. If his goal meant that he would have to be evil then he most definitely would be. Using understandings of our civilizations philosophy Kenneth Burke makes the argument that the "negative" or what is perceived as evil is a creation of man. In nature there is no "good" or "evil" there just "is".
It is man that puts the meaning behind what is evil or good. So you could argue that Kellhus just "is" and it's his goal that determines whether he is good or evil.

I think one could argue that Kellhus is playing the "good guy" because it is the Shortest Path. If the Shortest Path was for him to be a killer, we know he wouldn't hesitate. Kellhus demonstrated this by killing the boy watching Cnaiur bathe while Kellhus and Serwe were lying down. If Kellhus were a good guy he surely wouldn't have killed the boy.

I also don't feel that Kellhus has lost control of Legion. Showing Achamian his "true" face was necessary at that point to dominate the circumstance.

The argument about prophecy is quite odd too. Kellhus follows the principle of before and after. What come before dictates future events. Kellhus has been using prophecy since he entered civilization. He uses the Probability Trance to figure out what future events will occur by what has already occurred.

I thought it funny that he acts so different around Moe and you can tell that he is baiting him constantly, I believe the book even states something similar. Kellhus tells Moe what Moe wants to hear but that isn't necessarily what Kellhus was truly believing. With regards to his prophecy to Coithus Saubon he merely used the Probability Trance. The probabilites were numerous and Kellhus wasn't exactly sure what was going to happen but he used that as an opportunity to get rid of an enemy as well, in essence to walk the Shortest Path view post

Rome posted 03 June 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionRome by Athjeari, Peralogue

Have you guys watched both seasons of Rome?
I'm up for discussing it if anyone wants too. I absolutely loved the series! view post

What Comes Before Determines What Comes After... posted 03 June 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]What Comes Before Determines What Comes After... by Athjeari, Peralogue

Could concept, and I have thought about this as well. The stories are quite paralled, so much so that it's hard not to think about it.
I think that Bakker paralled them for a reason, either to support the Dunyain philosophy, or turn it on it's head.
Only time can tell

This might have already been discussed on this board but forgive me I'm new.

I had always wondered why Kellhus was the Harbinger. If you look at the facts Moenghus was back in civilization first. He was the first Anasurimbor to return. Should he not be seen as the Harbinger? And one thing that I always wondered about the Celmomas prophecy was where does it ever say that an Anasurimbor will defeat the second Apocalypse? He merely says that a decendant of his will return at the end of the world.

I also feel that the Mandate is assuming this means that an Anasurimbor will save the world but it might not be so. I think it might be safe to argue that Seswatha had more influence in stopping the first apocalypse than an Anasurimbor. view post

Maithanet posted 03 June 2008 in The Judging EyeMaithanet by Athjeari, Peralogue

I cannot imagine that Maithanet with get in the way of Kellhus. If anything, I speculate that he will only aid him in converting the entire world to one religion so they are all allied to fight the second apocalypse. (Isn't that part of what TTT was about, or did I miss understand this?)

What better way to control the world than to be an Aspect-Emperor and half brother to the religious leader of the time. Maithanet could plant all sorts of directives and thoughts into his followers especially since Kellhus is seen as a prophet.

I also think he might be better used to help convert as many followers instead of fighting the great ordeal. Maithanet gets others to fight for his cause, he does not need to go fight himself.

As for who runs the Empire.

In a passage I read (maybe on wikipedia) it talked about how 20 years had passed. Kellhus is off fighting his war. Akka is figuring out the Dunyain and trying to find them, and Esmi was ruling the Empire and trying to control her murderous children (of Kellhus).
I have no idea how legit this synopsis is but it made sense to me. Maybe you guys have seen or heard otherwise. (I liked the thought of Kellhus's children being murderous, it sounds as if Kellhus had no interest in raising the children and left them to their demise upon which they discover they are somewhat superior to humans and begin a reign of terror) view post

The Dunyain philosophy posted 03 June 2008 in Author Q & AThe Dunyain philosophy by Athjeari, Peralogue

Mr. Bakker and anyone else with insight,

I have been wondering for a long time whether or not you have taken influence for the Dunyain philosophy from the Stoics. There are several parallels that exist such as the "worshipping" of Logos. The idea of controlling emotions and not succumbing to passions. Even the concept of Before and After was believed by Stoics in the concept of the Theory of Causal Determinism.

I am just wondering because I have been studying Stoicism as of late and I am truly intrigued by the concepts. If you have any more insight on the topic I'd love to hear about it, or any other types of philosophical theories/beliefs you used while writing your books. (I am a Speech COMM student, but we discuss philosophy quite a lot especially Ancient Greek philosophy) I'm just interested on the concepts that influenced your writing I guess. view post

Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. posted 07 June 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Athjeari, Peralogue

You can be sure that I will be working on,

At least one more re-read of the PoN series

Reading Neuropath when it is released

and the rest of my top ten will be devoted to - trying to attain the Absolute; total mastering of the legion within, or the darkness that comes before. view post

Rome posted 07 June 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionRome by Athjeari, Peralogue

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head Harrol.
Both my friend, who I introduced to the series, and I thought the second season was rushed. If HBO was more willing to fund Rome, they could have at least made another season without making it seem drawn out.

So much happens so quickly that it feels as if they decided to finish the season instead of make the season great. (I still liked the second season, but it was not as good as the first) view post

Nostalgia: Fav part of the trilogy? posted 07 June 2008 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNostalgia: Fav part of the trilogy? by Athjeari, Peralogue

There have been some very memorable moments accounted for.

Some that I particularly like that haven't been mentioned

Anytime Kellhus remembers his training with a Pragma. (TDTCB & more specifically the one in WP right before he single handedly defends the Swazond standard)
The part where Kellhus defends the standard itself.

The dialogue between Kellhus and Moenghus at the end of TTT was spectacular.

Mekeretrig (sp?) scenes, especially on the wall

I really like reading about Athjeari. I was hoping he would survive the Holy War. I love the scene about Athjeari's Pilgrimage!
I also liked his death scene

Cnaiur going into bloodlust mode at the Battle of Kiyuth. I still remember the goosebumps it gave me reading, "WHO?" "WHO SHALL KILL ME?" "I AM THE MOST VIOLENT OF MEN!" etc etc

AH, I almost forgot, when Inrau remembers the words and rips out the Consult's heart near the beginning of TDTCB view post

Who would you cast in a Prince of Nothing movie? posted 08 June 2008 in General DiscusssionWho would you cast in a Prince of Nothing movie? by Athjeari, Peralogue

I'm confused. A lot of people seem to picture Akka as black. Where do you get this from in the descriptions from the books. If anything I have always pictured Akka as a Greek/Phoenician. I'm not opposed to the idea of a black Akka, it's just that I don't remember ever reading anything that hinted at Akka being that dark of skin.

I have always had trouble picturing Cnaiur. So many things about him make me picture Euro/Asian barbarains - i.e. Gauls, Germanic tribes, even Huns etc. etc.
At the same time I also feel that picturing him as a Native American would also fit. The sinewed look, the long black straight hair, the Scylvendi lifestyle itself.

What ethnicity do you all imagine for Cnaiur???

I have always pictured Proyas, Saubon and the others quite young. Most of the royalty are not rulers of their respected territories yet. They are still princes. I've never imagined most of them a day older than 30. So I would say it needs to be young actors.

Kellhus would be the HARDEST character to cast. He is taller than most men. He has long blonde hair (I believe it's wavy too), blue eyes and is in peak physical condition(remember he holds Cnaiur over a cliff with ONE ARM!). He has a beard and is from the north. Nordic characteristics if you ask me, he sounds like a menacing nord but yet with a body type that screams agility. That body type is hard to come by, plus he has to be beautiful. Not to mention he has to have a voice that can melt people where they stand.

Esmi I have always pictured as someone far more....elegant?? than Monica Belucci. Don't get me wrong, Belucci is good looking but Esmi has always seemed to have more class to me, even when she was a whore in Sumna. view post

Availability?? posted 08 June 2008 in NeuropathAvailability?? by Athjeari, Peralogue

I work at a Barnes and Noble and I can't even find this book in our system. Is this a limited release title or what? Anyone have some more information on this title? view post

Logos is theft posted 08 June 2008 in The Warrior ProphetLogos is theft by Athjeari, Peralogue

Ahh I have noticed a lot of people equating Kellhus's actions to what is good or bad - morally right or wrong or compassionate
Remember that all of these things have been created by man.

Kellhus does not (using the example from above about the friend with a sick mother) look at the situation as if he'd be a dick if he didn't spend time with the friend.

Look at it from this point of view. What is your goal? Several communications specialists believe that all communication is goal oriented. What is your goal in hanging out with that friend who needs you? (I am willing to bet the reason you did it wasn't so much for them as it was for you, don't think this is heartless it's just the way human beings are and your goals could be good beneficial goals tool; they don't have to be self centered goals but they are YOUR goals)
You may have wanted to show that you care about the person or that you can be counted on, or something along those lines.
The point being that Kellhus follows the shortest path. He doesn't think about making friendships closer he thinks, "if I make this person believe we are close friends than I will be that much closer to my goal." -- he does not think of anything negatively - negativity is a man made construction.
What I feel is funny is that in doing so he tends to look like a good guy. The reason being is that he knows if he burns a lot of bridges things will be harder for him. Why kill people and make yourself suspect when you can befriend and make them willing want to help you? It would not make sense to NOT try and befriend people even though he isn't really their friends.
Man I could go on and on about this topic but I need to stop because I am truly getting lost in my thoughts and am having trouble typing them coherently. If need be I'll wait for a response to elaborate further. view post

Cnaiur Badass Quote! posted 09 July 2008 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur Badass Quote! by Athjeari, Peralogue

That is a great quote.
Cnaiur has basically given up his life but as you've said he's going to take as many of them down with him as he possibly can.

Cnaiur has some of the best battle speeches/cries that I have ever read in a book. When I read them I get chills because they sound so frackin menacing (nice use of the BSG phrase topic creator, I love that show) view post

Cnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? posted 09 July 2008 in General DiscusssionCnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? by Athjeari, Peralogue

Nice discussion/argument so far.
I think it's quite simple why people are so interested in Cnaiur's sexuality.
The man is the stereotypical alpha male! He is a warrior.
According to our social norms warriors are usually not thought of to be gay. However, Cnaiur seems to be gay or at least bisexual. This conflicts with what is generally viewed as acceptable male behavior.

Another reason why I think the topic is so talked about is because Cnaiur doesn't show emotion throughout most of the series. He does say that he loves one of his wives, but he still has no trouble leaving her and soon forgets about her.
Suddenly in TTT Cnaiur runs into Moenghus and we finally see Cnaiur's fragile, emotional side come out. You can tell that Cnaiur really does/did love Moenghus. We even find out that Mo had a cute nickname for Cnaiur, Naiu. This is interesting because a man was able to make this other alpha male man become human and express emotion.

These are two reasons why I feel that Cnaiur's sexuality is so discussed. It is controversial to say the least. At the end of TTT I almost felt sorry for Cnaiur because he was so angry with himself at falling in love with another man. Throughout the series I never felt sorry for Cnaiur up until that moment when he sees Moenghus again. It made me feel weird, feeling sorry for Cnaiur, because he is such a strong character. view post

Cnaiur-is he dead? posted 05 September 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Cnaiur-is he dead? by Athjeari, Peralogue

As much as I enjoy Cnaiur, I too would be upset if he lived into the Aspect-Emperor. The end scene with Cnaiur was great.
I always assumed that he slit his own throat too. view post

Any up-dates? posted 05 September 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Any up-dates? by Athjeari, Peralogue

I haven't been to the forum in a couple months, so I apologize if this topic has been asked recently.
Does anyone have any news on the upcoming books? Do we have a new information on them? view post

Artwork for PoN? posted 20 October 2008 in General DiscusssionArtwork for PoN? by Athjeari, Peralogue

Does anyone know of any links or websites that have artwork inspired by The Prince of Nothing series? view post

Why was Khellus.... posted 07 November 2008 in Author Q & AWhy was Khellus.... by Athjeari, Peralogue

This is one of my favorite parts of the books. When you read the fight between Kellhus and the Nonman, read how Kellhus is interpreting events.

Kellhus felt himself pressed from a reign of might blows that pushed him back, and back.
"But Kellhus could sense the moment --- although it was far, far thinner than it had been with the Sranc."
"He climbed into that narrow instant, and the unearthly blade fell farther, and farther from its mark; bit deeper into empty air. Then Kellhus's own sword was scoring the dark figure, clipping and prodding the armor, tattering the frim cloak. But he could draw no blood."

When you read this passage it is clear that Kellhus isn't exactly having the easiest time with the Nonman. He fought off a hoard of Sranc and yet this one Nonman was giving him difficulty, and his opportunity to walk the Shortest Path was far, far thinner than it had been while fighting off a hoard of Sranc.

Plus it took Kellhus a while to get the best of him. For awhile Kellhus can't even draw blood. And since Kellhus ran away, I'd argue that Kellhus didn't even win, but actually lost the fight.

The Nonman was laughing at the end of the fight. I don't feel that the Nonman was ever truly worried about it's life. Kellhus might have bested him in martial prowess, but that doesn't mean the Nonman would be beat in a sorcerous dispute. Hasn't it been stated that the Nonmen burn with the Mark so badly that supposedly getting near a "Chorae" will turn them to dust? (something along those lines anyway)
I think the sorcery the Nonmen wield is unlike any we've seen (until Kellhus does two inutterals with an utteral at the end of TTT) view post

The Judging Eye posted 07 November 2008 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye by Athjeari, Peralogue

Is this book really coming out on January 22nd, 2009?

Hot damn! If that's true, I can't express how amped I am. I thought it was going to be a late 2009 release!

Anyword on this being released earlier in certain countries like Canada or anything? view post

The metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts posted 10 November 2008 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts by Athjeari, Peralogue

Great posts Thorsten. You've certainly done your homework, both within the world of Earwa and from a historical/philosophical aspect within our own world.

Time will only tell if this is the direction Bakker will take.....unless you apply the principles of causality. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post

The metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts posted 24 November 2008 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts by Athjeari, Peralogue

I wanted to post something with regards to Perseus search engine.

I've played with it a little, and I have found some words that are not matching up with definitions I've been taught at my University. &quot;Kairos&quot; is one of the words. I was taught that &quot;Kairos&quot; has everything to do with time, but not in the same reference as cronos. Kairos refers to the &quot;most opportune time&quot;. We use it within the speech communication discipline. The defintion given for ethos is also not congruent with what I've been taught. The engine doesn't recognize the word enthymeme, or even demos. I'm not saying that the entire Perseus Engine is no good, but I would check the defintions with other sources because I found to many words that were defined differently to me. view post

The Judging Eye posted 24 November 2008 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye by Athjeari, Peralogue

Has anyone heard about how many ARC's are being released by the publisher? I work at a bookstore and often times we get advanced reader copies (we got one for A Feast for Crows, which was great!) and I'm wondering if I'll get a chance to read this. As of today I haven't seen it anywhere within the store, but if anyone else knows some information about how many were released, I might be able to track a copy down. view post

Aspect Emperor Book 2? posted 25 November 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Aspect Emperor Book 2? by Athjeari, Peralogue

So in anticipation for the release of The Judging Eye, I found myself searching for any news on the second book in the series. I thought the title of the second book was
&quot;The Shortest Path&quot; but I floated over to Wikipedia and it says that Bakker has changed the name to &quot;The White-Luck Warrior&quot;

Anyone know anything about this or what the White-Luck Warrior could be in reference to? The wikipedia page was last updated on the 27th of Oct. 2008. Either way I thought the title &quot;The Shortest Path&quot; was a much better title than the &quot;The White-Luck Warrior&quot; view post

What if I told you, that nothing is real? posted 25 November 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionWhat if I told you, that nothing is real? by Athjeari, Peralogue

This is not my area of expertise, but didn't Descartes focus on what is real and what is not real? A lot of his work went towards determining this and has been widely accepted throughout the world even now.

Descartes (pronounced De-Cart) is the well known philosopher that came up with the concept of, &quot;I think therefore I am&quot; Descartes' theories go far deeper than this one quote but even the one quote debunks the idea.

If we think and are real, than what we perceive to be real is reality. At least to us. (If you feel otherwise let me know, but how can you argue against it?)
I think a great argument against your point is according to you than humans themselves or our concept of self might not be real. Descartes argues otherwise. To argue against what we perceive as real you would first have to address whether or not that the &quot;self&quot; is real.

I admit I didn't read all the other posts and this might not be what the topic is pertaining to.
(I also admit that I need to brush up on my Descartes but I do know that the focus of Descartes' Ontology (or what is real) is matter. Descartes' Epistemology (how we learn about the world) focused on observation and experimentation. Descartes, even though he didn't know it when he lived, can be classified as a Positivist, which many many people are even today. What is real? What can be observed, touched, experimented and replicated) view post

What if I told you, that nothing is real? posted 25 November 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionWhat if I told you, that nothing is real? by Athjeari, Peralogue

Platonistic philosophy would also argue against what you stated about the idea/concepts of good/evil, love/hate, courage,trust, etc.

We as humans have a common idea as to what all these things are. This relates to Idealism to the fullest degree.
Simply put according to you we could argue what we call a chair is not actually a chair. To anyone that has no reference to what we have agreed upon as a chair they might view it as something totally different, but since the idea of what the chair is/does has been agreed upon the chair is a chair. (if this makes no sense let me know and I'll elaborate further)

The idea is the most solid form of what is real, it is even more real than matter itself. This is the Ontology according to Idealism

The things you have listed above could be considered real just because you were able to list them and all of us know immediately what you are referring to without you having to give definitions and descriptions of what each item is. view post

The metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts posted 25 November 2008 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts by Athjeari, Peralogue

Ahh, that makes sense. I am obviously not skilled at spelling in greek.

I understood the concept of Perseus as being a meta-search engine. But since I was familiar with other defintions I wasn't sure if it wasn't accounting for all definitions. (I wasn't attempting to totally disprove the engine, merely that certain definitions were excluded) view post

Ishual posted 29 November 2008 in General DiscusssionIshual by Athjeari, Peralogue

I think if you were to check the encyclopedic glossary you might find the answer to this. I have loaned my copy of TTT out to a friend, so I can't check it right now but I'm sure someone on the board can look it up.

I want to say that you're right. In the prologue for TDtCB, it says Ishual succumbed at the height of the Apocalypse, but in the next couple sentences the prologue states it's the secret refuge of the Kuniuric High Kings. It makes no reference to Nonmen. As I said earlier, check in the back of TTT. view post

What if I told you, that nothing is real? posted 06 December 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionWhat if I told you, that nothing is real? by Athjeari, Peralogue

I would have to say that abolishing an idea is not easy because you would have to abolish it from the minds of everyone else too.

As for matter having no idea associated with it; we typically formulate an idea for all matter as soon as we discover the exist of matter. Think about it, do you ever look at something, or find something new and simply state, &quot;Oh that's matter&quot;. Even then you give it an idea because you have defined the matter as matter. You tend to try and discover it's purpose and you in most cases will name it. There is nothing that just &quot;is&quot;. We postulate ideas for everything that we discover. view post

Consensus so far? posted 23 January 2009 in The Judging EyeConsensus so far? by Athjeari, Peralogue

Can anyone that has read the book give me a spoiler free consensus of The Judging Eye?

I don't know if I can get the book before Feb. 5th and I'm dying to hear some feedback. view post

Consensus so far? posted 24 February 2009 in The Judging EyeConsensus so far? by Athjeari, Peralogue

I finally have the book, and I can hardly put it down! I am about 1/3 of the way through the book and I agree it has been well worth the wait (although compared to George R.R. Martin it wasn't much of a wait).
Ahhh I have so many questions, but I am forcing myself to finish the book before I look at the other threads. I don't want to accidentally ruin anything before I read it in the book.

Consensus so far? Great book view post

Kellhus vs Whiteluck -&lt;SPOILERS&gt;- posted 02 March 2009 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -&lt;SPOILERS&gt;- by Athjeari, Peralogue

I don't think that Curethan has crossed a line; he has simply made his point. I happen to agree with him. Kellhus is certainly capable of crossing into the Outside, and the book mentions that the heads tied to his belt are in fact demons, aka Ciphrang. Sorweel calls Kellhus a Ciphrang....a demon....or vice versa, a demon.....Ciphrang.

Why is it so unbelievable to some that Kellhus has two demon heads? Where would his body go when he teleports if not the outside? We know from TTT that Ciphrang reside within the Outside.

As for the White Luck.... maybe I read this part wrong but isn't Psatma the White-Luck? During the &quot;baptism&quot; doesn't she regenerate and become young and beautiful once again? I thought her old age and wrinkles were passed on to the man she was riding and Psatma took the &quot;White-Luck&quot; into her body? Was I drunk or something when reading this, if this is totally foreign to you all let me know and I'll reread the part. view post


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