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Regarding the Dunyain posted 17 Jan 2006, 22:01 by Swordsman, Commoner

Preface: This might be a premature question/observation, since I've only read TDTCB, and infact it might be fundamentally flawed, since it's been a long while since I brushed up on it. It works under the assumption that the Dunyain seek to be capable of controlling all things, within themselves and without, and so become "self moving souls." Does that not connote that either (a) only [i:2qzdghhu]one[/i:2qzdghhu] can ever be free-willed, or (b) that the Dunyain are conditioned and taught that they are the same as all other Dunyain? To make an example: Say you have Corvael and Remmas, both Dunyain. There is a single ball in a room, and they are going to control it. Neither can roll it one way so long as the other is trying to roll it the other. Unless they both share the same intention and thought, only one can ever control the direction of the ball, or both will lose it. In that sense, neither has achieved what they are studying for: perfect control of their environment. So long as either one of them has a sense of identity separate from the other, even if they act in unison, both may have deviate thoughts, and must be aware that even though they are achieving their goal, they do not have the power to deviate from the agreed motion. That isn't control either. Either one must control the other, or both must be the same identity. Addendum: nuts. I'm gonna get RAFO'd, aren't I? view post

posted 17 Jan 2006, 23:01 by Nauticus, Auditor

You're asking how every single Dunyain can control everything, correct? Because that would include each other. Well, the idea of the Dunyain is that they are the [i:3ed4iotp]Conditioned[/i:3ed4iotp], not the 'all-seeing controllers'. The lifestyle and knowledge of the Dunyain dwarf that of Men. They read emotions, and Dunyain don't generally 'have' emotions. So what could another Dunyain read? view post

posted 17 Jan 2006, 23:01 by Swordsman, Commoner

I'm not sure I follow. It doesn't make sense for two forces to be able to control each other: see the ball analogy. view post

Dunyain posted 19 Jan 2006, 20:01 by Dexious, Candidate

Dunyain are conditioned. Meaning they are completely present and aware. I don't believe it is about being in control of the situation. I think it is more about using the worlds influence mixed with personal manipulation to "take the shortest path". Two Dunyains with conflicting objectives? Let's not forget they are human. It would be logical to say not all Dunyain share the same strengths and weaknesses. I suppose we will see a Dunyain confrontation in TTT but it would seem that with all of the conditioning, even with worldly influence, they would come to the same conclusion and agree on a common goal. view post

posted 19 Jan 2006, 21:01 by zarathustra, Peralogue

I am always slightly puzzled by the dunyain aim to control all circumstance. For me the problem with this is that one dunyain munk cannot except a command from another. The Dunyain community should rather be a case of complete anarchy. Or bloody dictatorship as each monk seeks to control the others Yet from what Scott has revealed so far there seems to be a ruling council: the Pragma. Can you fills in a bit more on how the community works or am I already probing Aspect Emporer plotlines Scott? By the way here is a site that gives an insight into what being conditioned would mean for a human and some of the techniques that the Dunyain would possibly see as useful to go along the path to being a self moving soul. view post

posted 26 Jan 2006, 19:01 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

This is actually answered in the glossary of TTT, so in a sense, I guess I [i:vz31j28o]am[/i:vz31j28o] RAFO-ing you! Sounds disgusting... view post


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