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The desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? posted 06 Jun 2008, 04:06 by Callan S., Auditor

I was wondering, on rereading the darkness that comes before, whether something I noticed is intentional. There was a section talking about why the dunyain pursue the logos, and it talked about their thoughts not being their own and because of that they will always be slaves. And they don't want to be slaves to the darkness. Heh, it's probably an effect of the novels making me ask, but why? It occurs to me the desire not to be slave to the darkness would come from the darkness itself. Why resist slavery? Why - it's not just some word desire, it comes from somewhere else. The darkness. I was wondering if it was intended to be presented that way? If not, no big deal, but atleast for me it puts a different spin on things. :) view post

Re: The desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? posted 17 Jun 2008, 07:06 by Curethan, Didact

I would suggest that it comes from the logos itself. It being the counter to the darkness, which is born of instinct and presentience, the logos is the perfection of intelligence - an abstract concept of choice born of rational and critical weight. The Dunyain argue that men are slaves to the darkness, but logos is the quintesence of rational thought - the ability to defy instinctual reaction and apply forethought and the consideration of reasoned consequence to make a descision that manipulates circumstance to a desired outcome that best serves one's further goals. (Does that make sense?) Example: storing/rationing food to outlast a possible famine. To completely defy the darkness is the goal, with the desired outcome being infalibilty. The logos is the beacon of intelligence that shines beyond the darkness born of instinct and repition. view post

Re: The desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? posted 01 Jul 2008, 05:07 by Callan S., Auditor

Best serves what further goals? Wouldn't any further goals also come from the darkness? Pursuit of the logos would make one infalable at pursuing further goals doesn't make sense without some generator of further goals to actually pursue. view post

Re: The desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? posted 11 Jul 2008, 14:07 by Curethan, Didact

Heh. That would become evident only when you achieved the logos. But thats what has always bugged me about the dunyain beliefs, it's too zen to be considered logical. A quest where the goal is to be free of your quest. It reminds me of the tao. For the purpose of trying to mesh their goals with the story of Earwa, I propose that the being that attained that state of perfection would rewrite the world and become the new darkness that comes before all men's actions (or mebe disappear in a puff of logic. :oops: ). Perhaps Kelhus is that being and the no-god is his antithesis (or so-conspiritor as some believe). Consider that perhaps Kellhus is free of Earwa's DtCB and instead walks a path from the 'light' of the Duyain where the darkness that moves him is cast only by his own shadow. That he HAD ALREADY attained the logos before leaving the sanctuary. He now rewrites the world in his image, his darkness, 'freeing' it from the old only to enslave it in his shadow. Perhaps Moenghus was in fact the arm of the Dunyain and not a renegade. Eh, prolly not tho. view post

Re: The desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? posted 02 Aug 2008, 04:08 by Callan S., Auditor

I think with the TT, he encountered a sort of meta conciousness which wasn't made by men but was the original. The one men sort of copied when they made their version, so as to be close. By meta conciousness I'm talking about stuff like a race or religion - it's one big organism spread across thousands of brains. But race and religion, massive creatures that they were, were a sort of just a grasping for the meta conciousness of the planet. It's funny - in the darkness that comes before, when Kelhus leaves the monastary, at one point he gets lost in a trance looking at a twig he found in his shoe. Eventually it drops from his fingers at nightfall. In TTT, when he calls out to that thing, he finds a twig in his shoe. This time he sees one branch of it is green, the other dead. It's like it was calling out to him from the beginning, but like world born he couldn't hear it - he just had the dunyain meta conciousness substitute, just like world born have their race and religion. But he's still not working for it - he denied it, saying he couldn't tell them (the world born) the truth. Personally I think he's seen the light (perhaps simply at a clinical level - the true meta conciousness can grant the self moving soul), but will still walk a damned path because it is the shortest one to helping the goal of the light. His own damnation doesn't make a path any less short. It'd be kind of like a mad mix of completely reptilian calculating and absolute personal sacrifice. view post


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