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Are Kellus/the dunyain not as "enslaved" as anyone posted 23 Aug 2004, 18:08 by Andrew, Peralogue

Hi i'm new so i'm sorry if this has been asked before. My question is, from what darkness does the Dunyain's mission come? All that seems to count for the Dunyain is their mission - but why have they decided that their mission is more worthwhile than falling over dead? How can Kellus find motivation to act beyond what he has been instructed to do? His instructions/mission themselves seem to come from nothing more than the ritualized life the Dunyain have chosen. If Kellus were to succeed and kill his father, what would be left for him? What would he do? Why should he prefer to return to Ishual over falling down dead or taking over the world? By the end of the Warrior Prophet, Kellus seems as interested in fulfilling his father's mysterious purpose as his original mandate. This suggests to me that they aren't any more free than a world born person. The cause that prompts them to continue as before is more subtle than, for example lust, but there must be a cause nonetheless. The way around this as far as Kellus is concerned, seems to be contained right at the end of the warrior prophet when they are under the tree (trying to write without spoilers), but for the rest of the Dunyain, surely they have considered "why do we bother?". Do they ignore the question, or do they have a reason? Is it curiosity? ambition? egoism? A related question, is what is the point in mastering circumstance if once achieved you have no preference as to what to do with it? view post

posted 26 Aug 2004, 09:08 by Fortinbras, Commoner

To add to that (in a way,) what do the Dunyain think of death? Is it excluded from their mastery because it's ultimately unavoidable? view post

posted 27 Aug 2004, 15:08 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Welcome to the board, Andrew! All good questions, though best posed later in the story! The philosophy of the Dunyain, and Kellhus's elaboration of that philosophy, are actually integral to the plot. In all honesty, I would have answered this a couple of months ago, but that was before I realized just how crafty you buggers are! :wink: view post

posted 27 Aug 2004, 15:08 by Aldarion, Sorcerer-of-Rank

You're just lucky one of us hasn't asked you how the Dûnyain would play the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors :P view post

posted 28 Aug 2004, 08:08 by tellner, Peralogue

I just sat down and read DTCB and WP in a couple of days. One of the things that struck me. Not struck me as in an idea but struck me like a blackjack to the side of the head was how "What comes after does not determine what comes before". Kellhus thinks he is a trained manipulator who can treat regular people like white boxes in the engineering sense. Others, like most of the Holy War and Achamian believe that he is a prophet. They both seem to be right. It's not that his Logos is wrong. The future doesn't determine the past and present. But the events of the past seem to have been so profoundly significant that they have determined things thousands of years into their future. So the Dunyain [i:22lzqcie]are[/i:22lzqcie] as enslaved as anyone. They are just somewhat more aware of the way things work. This touches on another feeling that's been growing. In order to be what he must be Kellhus must combine the Gnosis and Logos (and probably the perceptive skills of the Fanim sorcerors). I think we're seeing RSB's philosophy background here :) view post


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