the archives
dusted off in read-only
dusted off in read-only
Kelhus vs Satan Who would win? Elaborate. I bet 9-1 for Kelhus since the other one is driven by emotions (kind of). I know it is a shallow thread. But hey, some things in life need to be. view post
I would go with satan on this one, but would it be one on one or would satan get to use the hosts of hell, because in that case he would def win. A one on one battle would be a little closer, but satan is the post powerful angel and the greatest deceiver greater even than the dunyain. His powers of deception would far outsrip that of hte WP who would surely be lost for what the Truth really is. view post
Cmon on guys. Really... Kellhus vs. Satan? Satan is the most powerful being second to God in all creation (if you believe the mythology). Even if Kellhus could kill him only his earthly avatar would be destroyed and he would still be in hell. Let's not forget the fact that Satan has an army, of demon's at his command as well. How about Kellhus vs. Elminster, Mordenkainen, or maybe Thoth-Amon? Now these are serious sorceres in there respective world's, and they are all mortal. Or magic free fight how about against Drizzt? I await further discussion. view post
Kellhus vs Drizzt? Well as Drizzt shows off his fancy sword work Kellhus would show off his inards. Drizzt as a character would not stand a chance. view post
Cmon... You don't think Drizzt, a drow swordmaster, wouldn't stand a chance? 
I understand that in a literary sense, Bakker is far more mature than Salvatore, and as such his characters and his world, appear much more brutal. But if you transplant either one to the others' world, than I think you get a better picture of just how powerful Drizzt would be in a straight up sword vs. scimitars fight. I mean he has almost a hundred more years of experience. I'm not saying that he would win, but he has a fighting chance.
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I think you must be forgetting Kellhus' fight with Mekeritrig, who has thousands of years of swordfighting experience under his belt and was nearly defeated by Kellhus until he employed his magic so Drizzt wouldn't have much of a chance. view post
You are right... I did forget.
You guys, 
can't you remember what it was like reading The Dark Elf Trilogy for the first time, or Icewind Dale, or any of the Drizzt adventures? I know that for most it's been awhile.
I think maybe your passions are inflamed from your current literary adventures. If you guys won't even give Drizzt the slayer of Errtu, the slayer of Iceingdeath and countless others a chance against Kellhus, than who do you think would?
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You ask who would stand a chance against Kellhus, Im sure there are more than a few Dunyain who would come close, as well as many many characters from the Dune series such as Duncan Idaho or Muad'Dib or his various children. I know Kellhus isnt invincible Im just saying that from what we have seen of Drizzt he would not be able to handle Kellhus' supreme intellect. view post
Good call on the Dune characters. I haven't thought of them for awhile. But, no one has tackled the issue of Kellhus' ability as a spell-caster. Obviously he is an excellent swordsman, but that is only one aspect of his power. If anyone reads Steven Erickson, they would obviously pick Quickben as a suitable trial for Kellhus. view post
Well we could tackle the issue of Kellhus' ability as a caster but you would have to take into mind that the metaphysics of the sorcery and the metaphysics of other novels are quite different, but if we were to take in to mind both sorcery and magic their would be much less few who could actually defeat or come close to defeating Kellhus. view post
Ok, lets try and stay away from pointing out the obvious disparities and metaphysical differences between fantasy worlds. We are obviously discussing hypothetical situations, we should just allow ourselves to have a little fun with it. I know it is easy to get bogged down with colliding realities, but please, lets just get down to it and discuss some Kellhus vs.... view post
OKoK so what if Satan had both his arms tied behind his back, who would win then! view post
Satan view post
Kellhus vs. Satan? Kellhus hands down! I mean think about all the [i:26ybricd]issues[/i:26ybricd] Satan must have, what with the teenage rebellion, parental abandonment, insecurity with body-image (those horns, and pitch-fork? That's so 90s!). Put the Prince of Darkness on a couch and give Kellhus 20 minutes to psychoanalyze Him, and Satan will be crying his eyeballs out...
Now Kellhus vs. Indiana Jones -- that will be a one-sided conflict. Kellhus will be standing there brandishing his sword and pontificating about the frailties of mankind, and Harrison Ford will just pull out a revolver and shoot him dead. 
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Kellhus vs. Greatjon Umber (ASOIAF) Now I know that Greatjon can't do magic, and he isn't this super-freak. But here's how I think the battle would go down. Greatjon raises his huge axe, Kellhus streaks in and easily disembowels him. Greatjon calls him a whore and smashes Kellhus in the head with the axe, drinks a beer, and dies. view post
Ha! Kellhus in Westeros? With all the psychological baggage everybody there carries, Kellhuss can talk his way onto the Iron Throne in a week, if he wants it.
p.s.: an interesting parallel -- skin-spies and Faceless Men. 
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Oh yeah, Kellhus would so walk right through Westeros. I think on ly the Eunuch would stand any chance against his manipulations. view post
Pshhh the Eunuch would probably help him. view post
[quote="Jamara":3szgb7kc]Oh yeah, Kellhus would so walk right through Westeros. I think on ly the Eunuch would stand any chance against his manipulations.[/quote:3szgb7kc] I doubt it. His ability is disguise and deception -- neither will work against Kelhuss. Well, to be sure, we don't know if anything can work against Kelhuss. We may need to import some kryptonite to get at this guy. view post
Still no contest of course, but how about Kellhus versus Tyrion? The little bugger is certainly smart, and he hasn't got much of a face left for Kellhus to read. If Kellhus turned up in Westeros, in defiance of all probability and copyright, the big thrill would be Kellhus showing just how dangerous those lumpen knights actually were. (We've already had a bit of an example there with Syrio and the Faceless Men.) view post
The only person that could probably defeat Kellhus, is someone from the Dune series, whether it be the Bene Gesserit, a mentat, Paul Muad'Dib, or one of his various descendants, in a universe where manipulation is everyone's game and nearly everyone is a super genius he would be doomed view post
Oh I got one .......Khellus vs. Maithanet ? oooohh I get chills. We don't even know what he is yet. I imagine he might be a handfull.
Just throwing that out there, for all we know Maithanet could actually be Satan. 
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Satan=No-God I know I've probably missed the point of this thread, but I coudn't resist the connection. view post
[quote="Gravity Gun":32lw4mas]Kellhus vs. Satan? Kellhus hands down! I mean think about all the [i:32lw4mas]issues[/i:32lw4mas] Satan must have, what with the teenage rebellion, parental abandonment, insecurity with body-image (those horns, and pitch-fork? That's so 90s!). Put the Prince of Darkness on a couch and give Kellhus 20 minutes to psychoanalyze Him, and Satan will be crying his eyeballs out... [/quote:32lw4mas] But [b:32lw4mas]which[/b:32lw4mas] Satan are we talking about? My favourite (if you can call it that) Satan is the intelligent kind from the Lucifer and Sandman comics by Neil Gaiman. Lucifer in that series has domination through intellect as his prime ability. So does Kellhus. Since Lucifer has had multiple man's ages to develop, I would say that Lucifer would win. And obviously Kellhus would become his tool. Too valuable to die. view post
Kellhus vs Uther Doul. Now that is a match-up that is by no means one-sided. I tend to think that Uther would have the edge, cuz Kellhus has been shown to be occasionally fallible. @ Kellhus vs Satan -> Kellhus would probly whip out the old Douglas Adams' secret weapon and disprove Satan's existence, causing him to disappear in a puff of logos. view post
I was going to say Batman, but again Batman has all the insecurities of parental abandonment and the whole dress up as a bat and beat up criminals thing, so Kellhus could work with that pretty easily.
I was also thinking Gandalf could square of against Kellhus pretty easily. I think I read somewhere that he's like an angel or something, so that could make him immune to Kellhus' Dunyain manipulation.
Scary thought, what would Kellhus do with the Ring? 
Would he be ammune to it's evilness or would he go for it and become Supreme Lord of Middle-Earth.
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[quote="Writer":3po4sv8e]I was going to say Batman, but again Batman has all the insecurities of parental abandonment and the whole dress up as a bat and beat up criminals thing, so Kellhus could work with that pretty easily.
I was also thinking Gandalf could square of against Kellhus pretty easily. I think I read somewhere that he's like an angel or something, so that could make him immune to Kellhus' Dunyain manipulation.
Scary thought, what would Kellhus do with the Ring? Would he be ammune to it's evilness or would he go for it and become Supreme Lord of Middle-Earth.[/quote:3po4sv8e]
Phhhaahh but He would not need a ring. The question is how quickly would he know the words of Valaquenta?
The conditioning would begin within 1 second of him touching the ground. Sauron and 'the darkness which comes before him' would be known in no-time. He would posses the Nazgul with all their weakness. No-one would be spared, no-one save Tom Bombadil of course.
Another interesting dillema is who is unverse greatest swordsman Kelhus or Master Yoda?
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[quote="coobek Phhhaahh but He would not need a ring. The question is how quickly would he know the words of Valaquenta? The conditioning would begin within 1 second of him touching the ground. Sauron and 'the darkness which comes before him' would be known in no-time. He would posses the Nazgul with all their weakness. No-one would be spared, no-one save Tom Bombadil of course. Another interesting dillema is who is unverse greatest swordsman Kelhus or Master Yoda?[/quote] I don't know about Yoda vrs Kellhus, but I have to disagree with you on the Nazgul. I don't think they have souls, so they can be classified as the same thing as Skinspys, just alot more powerful and advanced. view post
Took me awhile to think up this one, but when I saw the subject here I just had to come up with my own champion. Refering to Lanik Mueller towards the end of the book 'A Planet Called Treason' by Orson Scott Card. Odds are no one has any idea who or what I'm talking about. So read the freaking book. It's worth it. I think this would be a good match up and it's kind of a toss up on how their various powers and abilities would match up. I would have to pick Lanik. view post
I woke up in the middle of the night and came up with: Kellhus vs Karsa Orlong (Steven Erikson). He is big, he is a badass, and is pissed off that the Chained God is trying to manipulate him, so maybe he would be immune to Kellhus. Then I remembered that he doesn't have any sorcery, but maybe being Knight in High House of Chains would confer some sorcerous immunity. Kellhus vs Anomander Rake. Thousands of years old, sorcerous ability, Knight of High House Dark, and has a sword that he knows how to use, and that traps your soul forever. If Kellhus got too close, he could probably use a warren to come out behind him... view post
[quote="Warrior-Poet":3icams9p]The only person that could probably defeat Kellhus, is someone from the Dune series, whether it be the Bene Gesserit, a mentat, Paul Muad'Dib, or one of his various descendants, in a universe where manipulation is everyone's game and nearly everyone is a super genius he would be doomed[/quote:3icams9p] Kinda agree - I'd only give even odds on Paul Muad'Dib though. The fact that he has the weirding way, the great control (with Voice) and can see into the future(s) just about counteract the dunyain conditioning, analysis and mandate sorcery in my book. Even if the other people in the Dune series were able to resist his manipulation, he'd tear them to pieces with sorcery before they got close. I suppose a Bene Gesserit mother who also possessed the great control might stand a bit of a chance though. I actually can't think of anyone else I'd send against Kellhus - the whole sorcery being a violation of reality kinda suggests to me that even gods/spirits etc wouldn't stand too much of a chance given Kellhus can adjust to read intention in the smallest of actions (even if some could keep emotion off their face, simple physical action and patterns of behaviour tell him bags), is an absolute master swordsman because he doesn't rely on skill but placing himself in the correct moment (kinda an advanced form of the void from WoT), as well as his ridiculously powerful sorcery. I'd place something close to even odds if he was jumped, though - by an Aes Sedai/Ashaman who wasted no time for example... view post
If you've read 'The Scar' by Chine Mieville you might agree with my earlier matchup with Uther Doul. I'd get pay-per-view to watch that 'un. view post
Lolcats. I once thought the No-God was the stolen oversoul of mankind. I now believe it to be the sum of all lolcats in all universes, sealed within an unholy carapace. Kellhus is going to fight the lolcats. I can only hope he wins. WHAT DO YOU SEE? I MUST KNOW WHAT YOU SEE. INVISIBLE BIKE The Aspect Emperor is gonna ROCK! SPOILER WARNING: <COUGH> Cnaiur kills himself in a fit of madness after reaching Golgotterath, which turns out to be a giant web kiosk that can only access You're The Man Now Dog. view post
lolcats - thats true evil. No wonder the no-god is so retarded. MOG-pharau, the overkitty Can the logos really be used to defeat such high level unfun? The gnosis will tear like wet toilet paper before the lolcat emotopropis, I fear. Next match-up; Cnaiur vs Steve Foxx view post
Okay, this is probubly going to make me look like a complete idiot but what's lolcats? view post
I second Writes question but I am not an idiot the correct term for me would be fool. view post
I also don't know what it/they is/are... view post
A painful subspecies of image macro. http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Lolcat view post
^^Don't follow that link or Mog will eet u for fud.^^ view post
Okay, since that's settled I was thinking that an alien invasion might be able to take care of Kellhus, like if they were really weird non-humanoid aliens from War of the Worlds or something. I was also thinking maybe the Kzinti from Larry Niven's Known Space or Species 8472 from Star Trek: Voyager. Any other suggestions? view post
Master Yoda would kick butt. view post
[quote="Curethan":1f5t831z]^^Don't follow that link or Mog will eet u for fud.^^[/quote:1f5t831z] Buhahaha. Lolcats - My Mog - this is ridiculous, or maybe a new Inchoroi, tekne, thing. view post
If you are going to pit Kellhus against anyone in the Dune Universe it would have to be Leto II the God-Emperor. He would be totally immune to Kellhus' manipulations and has more than enough intellect to match him otherwise. As far as fighting ability, pre-worm, he has Prana-Bindu training. As well as the Voice, so it would be more likely he could impel Kellhus to do what he wanted not the other way around. After the transformation, his body is near impervious. Only point blank range with a lasgun would even damage him. Of course there is his oracular vision which would allow him to predict pretty much anything Kellhus could even do. Not to mention that he is also a mentat. So Leto hands down. view post
[quote="dirk69er":2opnn0tw]If you are going to pit Kellhus against anyone in the Dune Universe it would have to be Leto II the God-Emperor. He would be totally immune to Kellhus' manipulations and has more than enough intellect to match him otherwise. As far as fighting ability, pre-worm, he has Prana-Bindu training. As well as the Voice, so it would be more likely he could impel Kellhus to do what he wanted not the other way around. After the transformation, his body is near impervious. Only point blank range with a lasgun would even damage him. Of course there is his oracular vision which would allow him to predict pretty much anything Kellhus could even do. Not to mention that he is also a mentat. So Leto hands down.[/quote:2opnn0tw] Certainly view post
[quote="dirk69er":2yxuko1h]If you are going to pit Kellhus against anyone in the Dune Universe it would have to be Leto II the God-Emperor. He would be totally immune to Kellhus' manipulations and has more than enough intellect to match him otherwise. As far as fighting ability, pre-worm, he has Prana-Bindu training. As well as the Voice, so it would be more likely he could impel Kellhus to do what he wanted not the other way around.
After the transformation, his body is near impervious. Only point blank range with a lasgun would even damage him. Of course there is his oracular vision which would allow him to predict pretty much anything Kellhus could even do. Not to mention that he is also a mentat. So Leto hands down.[/quote:2yxuko1h]
Depends on would they fight on conditioned or non-conditioned ground 
Still Lolcats persuade me...
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It would not matter what ground they fought on. Leto is master of past, present and future. His oracular vision is near infallible, the only reason he died is because he ALLOWED himself to die. I would love to see Kellhus fight him in his worm body with a sword. That would be laughable. Besides you don't live for 3000 years and not become the most inimidating figure in the universe. One other thing in Leto's favour, Other Memory. Even if Kellhus presented something that Leto could not comprehend (not likely) Other Memory would definately have the answer. In this case Kellhus is overmatched. Leto is not the Kwisatz Haderach for nothing. Ironically the Logos is the 'Shortest Path' and Kwisatz Haderach means 'Shortening of the Way' go figure. That is my take, what reason do you have for thinking that the ground, conditioned or not, would have any effect on the out come? Please not I am not trying to be confrontational. It is always interesting to hear other people's opnions. Thank you!! view post
I fink Kellhus would poke his eyes out wif a pointy sword. view post
I'm confused, but which books exactly are you getting these from? I've only read Dune, personally, but wasn't Paul Atreides supposed to be the Kwisatz Haderach? And did Herbert actually present this invincible character in an at least interesting way? I'm not entirely sure I want to read any of the others anymore, actually. Invincible God characters who can Rule All, and Fie on you for trying to destroy him because he cannot be destroyed by any means, while kind of cool for the first five minutes... makes for a really boring book view post
Mandati, Try reading the 'God Emperor of Dune'. Leto though presented as all powerful entity actually makes an interesting character. view post
Mandati, There are many Kwisatz Haderachs. Here is more information about said subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwisatz_haderach view post
Khellus vs Roland Deschain? view post
Kellhus' abilities scale with emotions...thats why he had no hold over conphas, who felt nothing (among other reasons) and was emotionally dead. ergo; the one to defeat Kellhus would have to be an anti-hero or villain as well, one who doesn't feel. problem is, there aren't many of those in any kind of lit. plus said anasurimbor-killer would need some way to defeat kellhus in combat, or prevent kellhus from martially attacking him. i'm drawing a blank though. any suggestions? Who's the most emotionless bad-ass anti-hero you can think of to fight kellhus? view post
Karsa Orlong - Steven Erikson, Malazan series. I considered Darth Vader, but decided he was too consumed by the Dark Side. Master Yoda, while he has emotions, can control them, so would probably do pretty well. Lord Voldemort? view post
[quote:16nqhodd]Lord Voldemort?[/quote:16nqhodd] Too angry. And clearly you are forgetting the most important Star Wars character, R2D2. Let Kellhus try and manipulate a beeping robot. view post
Yoda!? Do not forget that Kellhus has the gnosis now. view post
Of course Yoda. He can use the Force to throw things at him. R2D2 - no martial arts ability. Will those of you who have read the Malazan series come help me out? view post
I always thought Yoda was a little gulible and not all that great as a fighter. view post
yoda is small sized, and so is thus harder to hit. plus, kellhus has that huge greatsword, even if he was fast, i doubt he'd be as fast as yoda was animated...keep in mind yoda was OLD then. yoda in his latter years would surely have an utter mastery of the force, combined with a fairly youthful vigor. Kellhus could maybe take him in combat, but he coult not manipulate him. pluws, we're forgetting that the force can control weak minds; the difference between what the force does and what kellhus does it like the tide to a tidal wave. One edges back and forth, inevitably teasing out a final result, whereas the other is a one-time effect that forces it's results. While what kellhus does is more subtle, i have my money on Yoda. although kellhus could easily just manipulate the weak minded and use them to overpower with number, the tiny green jedi. view post
Or do as the Sith and ooperate right in front of the little oblivious green guy. "Dark side hard to see." another brillant Yoda quote. view post
[i:7bnqkk1m]I fink Kellhus would poke his eyes out wif a pointy sword.[/i:7bnqkk1m] This also would not matter as Leto's oracular vision would allow him to still see Kellhus. There really isn't anyway for Kellhus to defeat Leto. view post
Although if said pointy sword penetrated to the brain then even Oracular vision might not be so useful... It'd probably come down to whether the Logos's ability to determine the best course for action given what's gone before could trump oracular prediction, or if the oracular sight can work as efficiently as the Logos - certainly for Paul Maud Dib it wasn't the super weapon it's being made out as, and if Kellhus is fast enough and the logos is useful enough then all possible futures might lead to death... view post
Kellhus vs. the 300 Spartans 
I think Kellhus hands down. All he'd have to do is reveal their deep-seated sexual insecurities and closeted homosexuality and they'd be too busy crying to own, bwahaha
Kellhus vs. Kratos from God of War
Tricky one...there must be a reason for Kratos' anger, so maybe that could work. Kratos would be too busy destroying things to listen though.
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[quote="xatantius":3c1usn20]Kellhus vs. the 300 Spartans
I think Kellhus hands down. All he'd have to do is reveal their deep-seated sexual insecurities and closeted homosexuality and they'd be too busy crying to own, bwahaha
......................[/quote:3c1usn20]
It's a new one to me that the 300 Spartans kept their homosexuality in the closet. A straight Spartan soldier would have been the exception rather than the rule, and because of this Spartan women (from Helen onwards) were criticized by the citizens of other states who decried their sexual freedom. Of course in Sparta, women did not have to be immured away behind doors because most of the men were not interested.
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Heh, I know that, you know that, but I dont think anyone who had anything to do with 300 did. I suffered through a whole 15 minutes of that movie before I remembered my dvd had a stop button. view post
@Curethan; I haven't yet succumbed to watching the movie, even on video. What I'd really like to see is a film adaptation of the battle of Salamis; this would have everything, scheming politicians and potentates, cryptic oracles, colliding triremes, and human sacrifice. Of course it would still be a pig's ear but at least it would be spectacular. view post
Heh, heh, the best way to watch 300 is turn the sound down and enjoy the view...but that is from a female perspective 
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[quote="Shell":3vhytqwm]Heh, heh, the best way to watch 300 is turn the sound down and enjoy the view...but that is from a female perspective [/quote:3vhytqwm]
Given their sexual proclivities, actual [i:3vhytqwm]Spartans[/i:3vhytqwm] would probably enjoy it too!
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Raistlin Majere.... Willful, intelligent, controls himself, ambitious- and completely amoral view post
I like Raistlin but Kellhus would still find a way to use him much like he did Cnaiur. view post
I would like to see Kellhus vs. Lord Foul. Evil genius vs. evil genius. Both have a very different style though, and ít would be interesting to see them collide. view post
Khellus V Satan Satan wins. Khellus doesn't get a chance to psychoanalyse him as Satan uses his Hell powers to blast him into oblivion. Khellus V God God wins. Khellus tries to psychoanalyse him, God responds with an even better psychoanalysis, pointing out the fact that Khellus is as blind and as much a slave to the Darkness that Comes Before as the people he manipulates. Khellus ends up crying like a baby when he realises that he does in fact love Esmi and is simply repeating the dumb nonsense that the priests beat into him. He slowly understands that he is not as intelligent as he thinks he is, because he has bended the Dunyain beliefs to fit what he has found, and by Dunyain logic, if a belief can be changed or bent, then it must be a matter of where you stand, you stand there because you repeat what comes before, and if you repeat what comes before, you are a slave to the Darkness. God wins, but not before giving Khellus the finger. ...Actually, considering Ray Wise's version of the Devil on Reaper, the above might count for Satan as well. Khellus V Jesus Jesus wins. He does so by touching Khellus on the forehead, and making Khellus understand what it feels like to be truly and utterly happy. Honestly, superpowers aside, I fail to see why people think Khellus is so awesome. How is being a psychopath an admirable trait? Now for a good un... Khellus V Karsa Orlong? view post
I asked the Karsa Orlong question back in Feb. I'd have to go with Karsa. He is a lot like Cnaiur but not so introspecitive as he doesn't give a fig what you think about him. Besides, he is ascended now, isn't he (I haven't read the most recent book yet)? view post
Leto II. Even if you could outwit him [b:wq6v9dp4][i:wq6v9dp4]WORMPOUNCE[/i:wq6v9dp4][/b:wq6v9dp4] view post
Karsa Orlong? I don't think so. It's a question of first being able to defeat Kellhus' ability to inhabit the spaces of opportunity; like trying to gamble against someone with loaded dice. Then you got the gnosis to deal with on top of that. Karsa just hits hard and soaks up punishment (and talks like a tool), Cnaiur and Karsa in Cell block H together would be a good match, maybe Karsa would get the top bunk - but I think Cnaiur would be the daddy... view post
Kellhus vs. AFRO SAMURAI!
Afro Samurai hands down. Kellhus is cool but Afro is voiced by Samuel L. Jackson. Case closed.
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