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Su'juroit, Cû'jara-Cinmoi and Cûnuroi Witch-Kings posted 25 Aug 2006, 16:08 by Catalyst, Commoner

Hi all, just a couple of questions that have been bugging me for a long time, mainly because of a passage in TT which I will quote here for your convenience: "The 'Third Phrase' was a thing of myth in Gnostic sorcery, a story handed down to Men during the Nonman Tutelage: the legend of Su'juroit, the great Cûnuroi Witch-King." So here are my questions: 1. Who is Su'juroit? 2. What exactly is the significance of a Cûnuroi Witch-King? 3. What is the legend of the 'Third Phrase' and Su'juroit? Thanks alot! view post

Re: Su'juroit, Cû'jara-Cinmoi and Cûnuroi Witch-Kings posted 25 Aug 2006, 19:08 by White Lord, Subdidact

[quote="Catalyst":1gwifeno]1. Who is Su'juroit?[/quote:1gwifeno] Well, Su'juroit was the great Cûnuroi Witch-King, and here what we know about him stops (although we can speculate, which I'll do later... :)). [quote:1gwifeno]2. What exactly is the significance of a Cûnuroi Witch-King?[/quote:1gwifeno] Cûnuroi society was/is divided in castes. The Ishroi were the warriors/rulers. So the fact that a Quya (sorcerer caste) could rule would be indicated by the term Witch-King. In fact, Scott said that the Nonmen have no rule forbidding sorcery, so I guess even an Ishroi with the gift of sorcery that was in line for a throne would be called a Witch-King. I'm also a bit unclear about the precedence of castes between the Quya and the Ishroi. I attribute some sort of priestly/religious role to the Quya as well (although that is simply my impression, not something that is shown by the books at this point), so that would put them above the Ishroi. There is also the fact that since in those times there were no Chorae, nothing could have stopped the Quya from dominating everyone else. The fact that there were kings, and not only Witch-Kings would indicate some sort of compromise or an accepted role for sorcery in that society. Still, I would say that these Witch-Kings, if there were more than one of them, were remarkable sorcerers who went outside their role of priests/councilors and chose to use the Gnosis as the basis of their secular rule. [quote:1gwifeno]3. What is the legend of the 'Third Phrase' and Su'juroit?[/quote:1gwifeno] Well, the 'Third Phrase' refers to the third string (in this case a second inutteral string) that is used when working sorcery. If you followed what Achamian said when teaching Kellhus the Gnosis, even working with two strings (one utteral and one inutteral) is incredibly difficult. And we all know what Kellhus is, what he can do, and more importantly what he will be able to do. The fact that Su'juroit possessed the ability to use a second inutteral string (the only one in the entire course of Nonman history, that we know of; and Nonmen being a cut or two above your average Man as well...) suggests that he was every bit as remarkable as Kellhus is likely to be. And who knows what Su'juroit did, and in what way he impacted Nonman society. (I suspect we might find out in later books, if the connection between Su'juroit and Kellhus is more than guesswork on my part...) I could even suggest that he had a role to play in his time that might be similar to that of Kellhus in this Age; after all, is pure intelligence everything one needs to use the Third Phrase, and perhaps go beyond it, or are other requirements necessary...? [quote:1gwifeno]Thanks alot![/quote:1gwifeno] You're welcome, provided my post [i:1gwifeno]did[/i:1gwifeno] help in any way... I haven't opened the books in some time and may be a bit rusty to participate in discussions just now... :) view post

posted 25 Aug 2006, 20:08 by Harrol, Moderator

Your information looks right to me. I just have not figured out how big a role that will play in the future. His ability to teleport is a function of the Third Phase I believe. view post

posted 25 Aug 2006, 20:08 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Indeed the Third Phase allowed him to change the Cant of Calling to what he called a Cant of Transposing. view post

posted 25 Aug 2006, 22:08 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I think you hit the nail on the head WL, at least what you summed up matched exactly what my own thoughts were on the subject from reading things. I'm craving more detailed information on the society the Non-men had before their slow decline into obscurity. view post


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