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Akka the Anarchist posted 09 Aug 2006, 07:08 by Sedulo, Candidate

Akka denounces Kellhus and everyone that believes in Kellhus out of self-defense/preservation; like Cnaiur, I believe he has suffered too much pain. What is interesting is that this opens the door to anarchy (according to Hobbes). I believe Hobbes actually allows this (self-preservation) as the one absolute reason to oppose or create a ruling power/government. So what is the meaning of creating strife with three major characters that are most likely to become anarchists (or create a new "side") when there's a war on? Akka-renounced Kellhus Cnair-already anarchist Esmenet- Likely to become disillusioned due to increasing awareness and pain. Do you think Kellhus is doing this on purpose? Probably, but why? view post

posted 09 Aug 2006, 17:08 by Ennui, Commoner

I think Kellhus is losing it a bit. He used the Holy War as the Shortest Path to Shimeh, and ultimately his father. Now he DOES believe that he is the Harbringer of the Second Appocolypse. He's Dunyain. The Harbringer has a goal to accomplish, and he will use the Shortest Path to achieve it. My theory anyway. view post

posted 11 Aug 2006, 20:08 by Harrol, Moderator

Kellhus will keep Esmi due to her loyalty. She believes that Kellhus is the the hope of the worls. Akka and Kellhus will most likely be reunited just after the start of the Second Apocalypse. I bet Kellhus will convince the humans that they are fighting a holy war in order to harness their fanatasisms. view post

posted 12 Aug 2006, 08:08 by Sedulo, Candidate

Okay, but the AE is in the future, I was just thinking that if the Akka/Kellhus combo is what APPEARS to be required then how is it cool for Akka to renounce the whole shebang. So, you think Kellhus will bring Akka back on his knees? I guess he [i:woq3ehr1]has to [/i:woq3ehr1]in order to keep everything under control. I just thought that there would be significant fallout from Akka's renunciation. I realize that the reason I am writing these questions is simply due to cliffhanger shock. I keep thinking there is more in the book but it just ends! Plus I keep thinking about when I first read The Darkness That Comes Before and how I was really hooked by the creation of a character like Kellhus. The interesting thing is that his actions don't really surprise me the way everyone else's do. But that ending...I can't remember being this impatient to find out what happens next in any other series I have read. Therefore I speculate. I'll likely start to re-read the whole series again on Sunday.................... Argh a "PoNoholic!!!" view post

posted 14 Aug 2006, 18:08 by vercint, Peralogue

I don't think Kellhus will ever be able to control either Akka or Esmi the same way again. They will become more like Cnaiur in that they are aware of his manipulation and so distrustful of everything he says. Of course, Kellhus will still be able to use them, the way he manipulated Cnaiur by using something they cannot resist desiring above all else... probably her child for Esmi, and the war against the Consult for Akka. In AE I think we'll see more of Seswatha's memories of Celmomas, and the parallels between the first apocalypse and the second will become clear... Kellhus will be Celmomas, Akka Seswatha, and since AE is twenty years into the future, there may even be a latter version of Nau-Cayuti. view post

posted 15 Aug 2006, 04:08 by Sedulo, Candidate

Maybe Esmi and Kellhus' child=Nau-Cayuti? Akka would likely care for him/her a great deal. view post

posted 15 Aug 2006, 23:08 by anor277, Didact

Just on topic re Achamian;s future relations with Kellhus. I think it is unlikely that Achamian will survive in the next few years without Kellhus' intercession. Achamian is now a renegade, not only has he repudiated a prophet, he has also repudiated his school (a school that is now arguably the most powerful in the Three Seas and which is probably no longer infested by spies). Given those prospects, it is unlikely that Achamian can avoid a price on his head - unless of course Kellhus, for whatever reason, gratitude, guilt, mercy (if he can feel these things) chooses to stay his hand and refuse to countenance Achamian's prosecution.. view post

posted 16 Aug 2006, 06:08 by Primal, Peralogue

about the children: Cnaiur-Serwe's; Kellhus-Esmenet's: The children will be about 20 & 19 years old, respectively. What roles do you think they will play in the scheme of things? And how will they affect Kellhus's "vestige"? ( of "vestigial" derived from scene with Kellhus and father) view post

posted 16 Aug 2006, 07:08 by Sedulo, Candidate

(response to Anor 277) Yes, perhaps that is why Kellhus announces to everyone present AND to Achamian that the next time Akka comes before him he will kneel. This could convince all of the factions that Kellhus has everything under control and buys some time. I read in another thread the theory that because Akka revealed Kellhus's location to Cnair he had joined the Consult. I do not believe that to be the case. I just thought that Achamian's renunciation proclaims a major schism, based upon the importance of his character and his relationships. IMHO this is a very big deal especially since the book ends that way. I doubt that Kellhus will simply give him the smackdown... then on with the second apocalypse! Even though most seem to think Kellhus will prevail over Akka, I think (hope!) it will somehow be a combination with both men continuing to influence one another. view post

posted 16 Aug 2006, 07:08 by Sedulo, Candidate

[quote="Primal":3giqgycn]about the children: Cnaiur-Serwe's; Kellhus-Esmenet's: The children will be about 20 & 19 years old, respectively. What roles do you think they will play in the scheme of things? And how will they affect Kellhus's "vestige"? ( of "vestigial" derived from scene with Kellhus and father)[/quote:3giqgycn] I think about this a lot. My initial thought is that Cnair's son (Moe II) may be haunted by his father, plus he's likely to be a big fella! He may get Serwe's temperment though. Which would make him tractable. Esmenet and Kellhus' baby; for some reason I keep thinking it will be a girl. What if Kellhus sends the baby or Esmi while pregnant away to the Dunyain? Or, as someone pointed out in another the baby okay? Both children will probably be given training of some sort, and unless something strange happens they'll be attractive 8) . Of course anything is possible. They could fall in love with each other, kill their parents (well Moe II may not succeed too well at that). It doesn't seem at first glance that either of them will be too happy when they find out the truth of their origins. I am not sure if Kellhus will prove Moe I wrong or right regarding the abilities of his child(ren). He'll try to train one or both of them though (repeated sentence). Maybe as a new kind of sorcerer. view post

posted 16 Aug 2006, 13:08 by Harrol, Moderator

I believe those children will be used by Kellhus to achieve the shortest path. He will need intelligent people to help lead the humans against the consult. I believe the destruction of the consult is one of Kellhus's big objectives in order to achieve the ultimate goal of becoming a self-moving soul. view post

posted 16 Aug 2006, 20:08 by Sedulo, Candidate

So, you think Kellhus's success is just a matter of time? I think that he'll [b:2mnbnkbv]of course [/b:2mnbnkbv]try but somehow I do not think he's going to get through it without some actual non-compelled/voluntary help rather than just using and manipulating everyone. view post

posted 17 Aug 2006, 13:08 by Harrol, Moderator

Sedulo I agree. He will have voluntary help, but I suspect that he will crush most of the consult. Another wacky therory I have is that He will turn the nonmen erratics. If the erratics turn against the consult then things would be interesting. view post

posted 17 Aug 2006, 18:08 by Sedulo, Candidate

That would be amazing! How do you think it will be accomplished? Tell more of your theory (if you like). Also, on the topic of Akka. Will he be estranged from Kellhus for 20 years? view post

posted 17 Aug 2006, 20:08 by Harrol, Moderator

No kellhus and Akka will be brought back together by the rise of the consult and of the No-God. I believe it will mirror Seswatha and Celemonis's (sp) relationship. Yet I sense Scott will throw something in there to break the cycle so that the Second Apocalypse will not be a carbon copy of the first. Why do I think Kellhus can turn the Erratics? Well first Seswatha was freed from the wall even though a nonman had him prisoner. I do not belive that Seswatha won his freedom by force but rather he gained his freedom by suppling the Nonman with something he needed. In other words memories. i believe that Kellhus can build off of this. The erratics do not serve by desire but by need. If that need is removed then I am sure the consult would have hell to pay from the Erratics. I know goofy theory and hard to support but i believe Scott has dropped enough clues that it is possible. view post

posted 17 Aug 2006, 23:08 by vercint, Peralogue

I like this theory, but I think the notion of Kellhus healing the Erratics is unlikely. Consider in TTT when he couldn't heal Xin's eyes... which Akka took to mean that he's not really a prophet. Kellhus may be the master of the mental, but he cannot heal physical injuries, and I think the cause of the madness in the Nonmen is that their brains are only capable of retaining memories for their normal lifetime. Kellhus would be unable fix this. Of course, in twenty years, who knows? view post

posted 28 Aug 2006, 15:08 by brandon, Candidate

It may not require healing their minds as such, but rather giving them an alternate path to memories. Most surviving non-men are able to do this by keeping busy, if kellhus compelled the eratics to fight against the consult, this would give them plenty of worthy oponents and clashes to remember. i'd never thought of this idea though. frankly though, i'm just excited to read any in depth plots concerning the non-men. it would be like reading about the elves in the LOTR, and then getting to read all about them in the Silmarillion (although obviously the next series will not deal with them as strongly) view post


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