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Female Dunyain? posted 22 Mar 2006, 21:03 by Will, Peralogue

I looked through the Q & A forum, but didn't see this one. My apologies if it has been asked before. Are there women among the Conditioned? view post

posted 22 Mar 2006, 23:03 by unJon, Auditor

Is the alternative that they just keep women around for breeding stock and don't train them? view post

posted 22 Mar 2006, 23:03 by Dawnstorm, Candidate

[quote="unJon":22b0icu3]Is the alternative that they just keep women around for breeding stock and don't train them?[/quote:22b0icu3] I've always wondered about that. How much genetic material is there? After a thousand generations their genepool would have degenerated rather than improved if all they had was the limited starting pool. I tell you they're behind the "alien abductions"! view post

posted 23 Mar 2006, 09:03 by zarathustra, Peralogue

I think Scott has said that female Dunyian characters will come into the story in later books. If you look at Kellhus example of promoting Esmenet to be his spymaster then it shows that for a Dunyian gender differences are largely unimportant. They would see womens position in Three Seas society as a social construct and interfering with the path to wisdom. I would imagine in Ishual women play a full part in apprehending the logos and would be part of their Pragma. I haven't spotted any though in the TTT glossary. view post

posted 23 Mar 2006, 15:03 by Will, Peralogue

I concur, it seems that it would double their number of potential non-defectives, but I could see it either way. The Dunyain aren't completely rational, after all, they DID seal themselves away from the world for a few thousand years and convince themselves that sorcery doesn't exist. It would be interesting to see if a female Dunyain was more or less successful than a male one in Inrithi society. view post

posted 23 Mar 2006, 16:03 by zarathustra, Peralogue

Thinking about this a bit more the Dunyian would be able to shed some light on a debate between evolutionary psychologist and social scientist as to whether gender differences are largely determined by biology or are social constructs. I would imagine that the Dunyian would bring up their children without showing any 'gender bias' . Furthermore I'm not sure the Dunyian would have such a concept as individual identity which would include gender. The only difference for them would be the fulfilling of a reproductive role. The Dunyian for me would try and supress any behaviour that would seem to be either masculine or feminine. view post

posted 23 Mar 2006, 22:03 by Xray the Enforcer, Auditor

Thinking back to Kellhus's character early in his dealings with society at large, he does come across as strangely neuter, although this may be a result of no on-screen interactions (IIRC) with women until Serwe. I'll pay more attention to this as I re-read the books. But I am not sure that Esmenet's promotion to spymaster can be used to infer the role of women in the Dunyain. Spying, whispers and such, I think, would be seen as emasculating (for the Inrithi) and inefficient (for Kellhus, who seems to prefer the "personal touch" when it comes to manipulating events.) Essentially, spying could be viewed as "women's work." view post

posted 24 Mar 2006, 01:03 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I found Esmi's promotion to be just another way of manipulation for Kellhus to make her feel important. view post

posted 24 Mar 2006, 01:03 by Xray the Enforcer, Auditor

Do you think she required it? view post

posted 24 Mar 2006, 02:03 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I think she does because thats how she became his in the first place he made her feel as thoguh she were equal to men, he enlightened her. Thats the only thing besides her pregnancy in my opinion that kept her from her form going straight back to Akka. view post

posted 24 Mar 2006, 03:03 by Xray the Enforcer, Auditor

This may be a disagree-until-Scott-pwns-us-all point -- but I never got the sense that Emsi needed that final affirmation to cleave to Kellhus. I thought she was (essentially) bought and paid for long before her elevation to spymaster. view post

posted 24 Mar 2006, 15:03 by zarathustra, Peralogue

I see Esmenet's elevation to spymaster as being for two reasons firstly she has the ability and therfore is a natural choice. Secondly it allows Kellhus to send out a message to the Holy War that things are going to be done differently from now on. That women even ones with tatooed hands will hold important positions in the society he will be creating. It therefore demonstrates his absolute power to overturn old beliefs and customs. As Achamian says at the start of TTT its year zero now. (Incidently I think Pol Pot used that term to describe the society he was trying to create; an ominous precedent.) view post

Re: Female Dunyain? posted 30 Mar 2006, 16:03 by Spamoram, Candidate

[quote="Will":2524nfnu]I looked through the Q & A forum, but didn't see this one. My apologies if it has been asked before. Are there women among the Conditioned?[/quote:2524nfnu] I think the answer has to be yes. That children born by world born women do not have the capacity of full dunyain implies that it takes 2 Conditioned to make an offspring with the potential to be Conditioned. view post

posted 05 Apr 2006, 10:04 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Ummmm shouldnt you be posting in the Off Topic section where they are actually talking about casting. view post

posted 05 Apr 2006, 13:04 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

:lol: view post

posted 29 Jul 2006, 06:07 by slim, Commoner

If Kellus was indeed aware of the probability of Akka surviving his brutal abduction at the hands of the scarlet magi, he may have used Esmi as a way to pull at the heart-strings of Akka and keep him off-balance, much as he did with Serwe and Cnaiur. Akka's knowledge of the gnosis and connection (or lack of connection) to his school were critical to Kellus' plans. But, most likely his motives had multiple folds, like a many layered benjuki move. I would guess that the Dunyain women were treated exactly the same as the Dunyain men - bred for their strengths and killed for their weaknesses...and constantly conditioned. view post

posted 27 Dec 2006, 01:12 by 073811, Commoner

[quote:rdqgioob]In this world, there is nothing more precious than our blood--as you have no doubt surmised. But the children we bear by worldborn women lack the breadth of our abilities.[/quote:rdqgioob] view post

posted 13 Apr 2007, 20:04 by Delazar, Commoner

and what about female sorcerers(esses...)? are witches burnt ASAP, or is it possible for a female to be recognized as one of the Few, and be schooled? if the Few are so..."few", then even female ones should be precious... view post


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