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Dunyain and Technology posted 13 Feb 2006, 21:02 by unJon, Auditor

I realize that this is a fantasy book so that some/all of this speculation should not apply because it is not the [b:3iknqelg]real world[/b:3iknqelg]. With that qualification, I still think it would be interesting to have a discussion about why the Dunyain do not seem to have advanced technologically. The've been chilling in Ishual for 2K years and have spent that whole time breeding for intelligence and investigating the relationship between cause and effect. The obviously haven't stumbled onto quantum mechanics or they would realize that they could not really figure out how what comes before determines what comes after. On the other hand, they have advanced notions of psychology and neuro-science. e.g. Kelhus and the hypnotism of Akka; the neuro-puncture of the defects. Kelhus in TDTCB notes that in Ishual you often know exactly what path a falling leaf would take. This would entail some sophisticated understanding of gravity, air resistence, and thermo-dynamics. Given the pervasiveness of elector-magnitism in the cause/effect relationship for most observable phenomenon, I'm surprised that they haven't stumbled upon electricity yet. More generally, I wonder that they don't have a scientific branch runing experiments in physics and chemistry, discovering Relativity, etc. I would think that such research would pay big dividends in the Logos. Just some careful observations of the motions of the planetary bodies would confirm that Netownian physics is lacking in some respects. view post

posted 13 Feb 2006, 22:02 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I think it boils down to where their focus is. Their goal is to obtain the Logos and t become true self-moving souls, completely free of their human "animal" heritage. Technology would not help them achieve this and so it is not something I would see them investigating. That being said it was pointed out that Dunyain steel is superior to the steel work of the Three-Seas I believe so I wonder why they would keep up/improve that and not others. I guess it would probably boil back down to whether or not the persuit helped them in anway with their Mission. Might be a good question to put to Scott on the Q&A board. view post

posted 14 Feb 2006, 01:02 by RaiTei, Candidate

Well Said Entropic, and I completley Agree. The Dunyain's Desire was to follow the Logos and transcend any remnants of humanity in essence. As Entropic said, shedding animal traits. That's why they distilled their fears and desires and bred for intelligence and reflexes because if you think logically, to evolve you must already be at the peak of what you already have no? Or have some other cause or focus to evolve. Transcending that which is now is the main goal, and technology is of no use to them in this situation, but they were technologically advanced to a point, Ex in TDTCB the probing and freezing of faces. view post

posted 14 Feb 2006, 02:02 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Like I said, I think it may boil down to whether the technology/scientific advancement/study will further their Mission. Eventually they would want to "enlighten" all of Humanity if possible. Their study of neuropuncture and faces furthers their understanding of other men, and how to control themselves and their own facial expressions, etc. These things further their mission. view post

posted 14 Feb 2006, 23:02 by unJon, Auditor

Alright here is my current (pretty out there) speculation. Inchoroi - know about the Tekne but they don't have the current knowledge about it that they used to. They can't make e.g. more energy weapons or Wracu. Dunyain - incredibly smart but never applied the knowledge to hard science like the Tekne because (for whatever reason) they never stumbled across it. Sounds like a marriage made in heaven (hell). If the Inchoroi stumble onto the Dunyain and expose them to the Tekne I can see the Dunyain being able to reclaim a bunch of the lost arts. What do you guys think? view post

posted 19 Feb 2006, 15:02 by zarathustra, Peralogue

Of course Kellhus free from the Dunyain 'mission' could over the next twenty years apply his intellect and scientific reasoning to produce some pretty awesome weapons. But this is unlikely as there are pobably biggers wins produced by his explortion of the Gnosis. view post

posted 19 Feb 2006, 21:02 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I think if we see any technological advances from Kellhus it will likely be things that directly apply to warfare. More advanced seige weapons, better methods of forging steel, stronger methods of building fortifications, things like that. We've already seen that he can decipher better ways to do things like this with little effort. I would think most of his effort would be put into exploring the Gnosis. view post


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