Three Seas Forum

the archives

dusted off in read-only


Anasurimbor Maithanet? posted 27 September 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAnasurimbor Maithanet? by Madness, Peralogue

I guess perhaps there's been a lack of interesting topics lately, as no one seems to be writing much in the forums concerning the Prince of Nothing. I hope people are still reading, however, as there's so much to be discussed and brainstormed about these books.

First, I'd like to write a rebuttal towards Cynical's points on my ideas concerning Moenghus' children.

Moenghus's statements on the children not being Dunyain are not reliable indicators of anything other than Moenghus beliefs and he is shown to not be infallible. In fact, his errors lead to his death.

True, Moenghus' statements on Dunyain + non-Dunyain offspring cannot be taken as 100% truth, as it is speculation on his part and a character of even Moenghus' abilities can be wrong. However, the statements made are not wrong due to his beliefs, as he has not yet come to believe anything, but due to his hindered Dunyain abilities and progress through the Thousandfold Thought. Likewise, his death is not caused by any error of his unless you count him putting out his eyes, but caused by Kellhus' more extensive exploration of the Thousandfold Thought. Moenghus did not yet know the possibilities that branched from his encounter with Kellhus as it had taken him a large part of his thirty years to grasp that the Thought included a summons to Ishual and his true son. I honestly don't think he explored the Thousandfold Thought much after grasping this, thinking that possibilites and the shortest path would become apparent to him upon meeting his son.

As to your other points, Cynical. In all honesty I think the first three have already been negated by other members in this and other threads.

To just quickly sum them up, though I wish I had my copy of TTT handy.

Yes, the Dunyain cull their own ranks. Considering that they've been doing this for two thousands years, I would assume that by these days they're doing a little less culling. Though this somewhat goes off on a tangent I'd like to throw in another thought I've had as it ties into this, though I know I'm negating one of my own points from this or another thread. All Dunyain are not all Anasurimbor. They can't be or otherwise you would have an effect of imbreading rather than, for lack of a better word, outbreading. Anyhow, as the Dunyain did and do cull their ranks every generation, each subsequent generation gets smarter then breeds with eachother, then cull the less intelligent and physically fit again, and repeat. Compound that two thousand years.

Therefore, to tie it back to your point or points I guess as it hits a couple of them, when Moenghus and Kellhus couple with worldborn women their children can never compare to true Dunyain. Which is also why Kellhus uses Esmenet, her being a very intelligent women in a male dominate society.

Point 2 and 3 kind of deal with my above paragraph. When commenting or thinking on the Dunyain you have to think in terms of two thousand years, as Cnaiur does. Moenghus probably did try and duplicate Ishual and their teachings when raising Maithanet for his task. However, knowing that a worldborn child couldn't compare with true Dunyain, there was no need for Moenghus to try and train Maithanet as such. In my opinion, I think Moenghus viewed Maithanet as a tool just as any other worldborn man. Though this is speculation on my part, Moenghus had probably grasped the beginnings of the Thousandfold Thought just after Maithanet was born, and so saw Maithanet's uses in all the possibilities.

Your third point is as well ignorant of the above concept. Make no mistake, a Dunyain baby is not a worldborn baby. Perhaps in the days following the apocalypse a worldborn baby might have compared to a Dunyain one but, again, not after the compounding factor.

Genetics inheritance, especially for intelligence, isn't a sure thing. The Dunyain breed for reflexes and intelligence and then cull ... but that only means that doesn't insure superiority over world born men, just high performance in those areas.

Your right, Genetic inheritance especially for intelligence isn't a sure thing. However, as they do kill the offspring that don't measure up, as I said they probably have to do a lot less culling these days.

I don't mean to sound superior or rude because I, in all likelihood, could be wrong in my writings, however, your last point I think was the only one of your four that brought up an intelligent counter-point.

Maithanet is inferior to Dunyain but superior to worldborn man. He's inbetween, in my understanding. He is also one of the Few as are many Dunyain, I assume, but as Proyas says to Achamian in TDTCB (oh, how I wish I had my books with me), many Shriah's have been of the Few. They just choose not to stain themselves with the blood-of-the-onta.

Maithanet was only able to

seize such control of the Thousand Temples, uncover spies and skin spies, and ... personally seize and disable a skin spy sorcerer

because of Moenghus' lengthy interrogation of the Consult skin-spies. Without Moenghus' as a father, with his grasping of the Thousandfold Though, Maithanet, regardless of natural intelligence and ability would not have been to do these things.

I am running out of time here to continue writing, however, I will attempt to give examples before I get cut off.

Think. Moenghus has Maithanet play to Inrithi faith by walking unharmed from heathen lands. He's able to uncover every factions spies through Cishaurim intelligence and counter-intelligence who would be able to identify Xerius' spies in the Thousand Temples, and pull out their own when their task was done, giving the illusion of cleansed. Maithanet himself could be the Cishaurim's spy if need be.

I'll give you a thought before I leave because I just thought about it.

What if the prior Shriah was a Consult skin-spy and through Moenghus' interrogations of the captured skin-spies he was able to assern this?

Hope that gave you food for thought, Cynical and any other readers. view post


The Three Seas Forum archives are hosted and maintained courtesy of Jack Brown