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Shell Peralogue | joined 16 September 2007 | 66 posts


Was Cnauir gay? posted 16 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

I just finished TTT about 3 hours ago.

8 pages is of messages is overwhelming for a newbie, but...

I must be the densest person on the planet. I spent three books wondering what the hell "proof" Serwe was, and then the passionate kiss with Moe...

The light bulb goes on... view post


Akka posted 16 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAkka by Shell, Peralogue

Brienne of Tarth,

I just finished TTT about 3 hours ago, and I absolutely agree with you. I loath Esmi by the end because she can't just say "Akka, its over." Its like she tortures him with looks and nonlooks and nonverbal language. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 16 September 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

I just finished TTT about three hours ago, and have been roaming this site...

I agree with Carral and Harrol. Never once did I see Cnaiur as insane, and was, in fact, suprised to see it even mentioned!

Victim of child sexual abuse? Probably (and confirmed at the end, depending on your POV).
Angry? Definetely.
Guilty over obviously liking "stronger arms"? Yes.
Conflicted that his thoughts strayed from the traditions of the People? Certainly.
Hurt and betrayed? Yep.
A survivor? For sure.

But insane or mad? No. view post


Was Cnauir gay? posted 16 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

Thanks Harrol! Whew, thought I was the only one...

If I am going over old ground, forgive me, I just finished the trilogy yesterday, and couldn't sleep last night.

I think what threw me is that Cnauir seemed utterly surprised that his tribe thought he was a "faggot weeper". Maybe in hindsight, he was surprised that the tribe even suspected, as I am sure he thought his liason completely private and hidden.

That said, I don't think he is gay, or rather he would not define himself as gay. We are placing that label on him. He clealy likes/lusts for women as shown in his descriptions of Anissi and Serwe. You don't hear him noticing Conphas' "muscular thighs" for example.

Let me expalin further. I am a student at the University of Minnesota and am taking an HIV/AIDS class, and rather than talk about gay men, the instructor kept speaking of "men who have sex with men" or MSM as being high-risk for HIV, blah, blah.

I couldn't get my head around this. If you are a man, and having sex with a man, you are either gay, or bisexual. So I asked. Here is my instructor's example. Say you have a male prostitute and he is has majority male clientele, we say "He is gay" - yet you ask said prostitute, and he will say " I love women. I date them when I am not working. I turn tricks with men to put food on the table and pay the rent. I am not gay." This person is MSM, but not gay. Gay is pretty much a self-defined term.

So...Cnauir would not define himself as gay. We define him as gay.

I compare Moe and Cnauir parallelling sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests. That, and as Scylenvendi culture was short on expressions of love and acceptance, why wouldn't he turn to Moe as a caring, accepting father figure (however false). view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 16 September 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

To Magewind, Ah-nold is too bulky, too slow. I see Cnaiur as leaner and therefore quicker, but still a large man. view post


Was Cnauir gay? posted 16 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

Moe sexualized the relationship, not Cnaiur. Think of all the child molesters out there - priest, boy scout leader, teacher, neighbor. Its always an authority figure and they usually insinuate themselves by becoming the father figure, the trusted confidante, and then it leads to a sexual relationship. The child believes that this person is doing this because the adult "loves" him.

BTW, after spending EIGHT hours last night on this forum, I realize I am really late to the party - I some cases years late! lol I have the hardcovers and TTT is copyright 2006, so I figured it was a pretty recent series. I had no idea the paperbacks were out up to five years ago.

Ah, for the days when publishers put the hardcovers out first so one knew one's place in the world... view post


Was Cnauir gay? posted 17 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

Thanks for that - that is good to know. I have bone to pick with whole Esmi-Akka-Kellhus thing, and Kellhus' "morality" - just not sure how to say it yet... view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 17 September 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

It just occured to me that Cnaiur is a lot like Karsa Orlong in the Malazan series. view post


Ok so I feel like ive read every good author in existence. posted 17 September 2007 in Literature DiscussionOk so I feel like ive read every good author in existence. by Shell, Peralogue

Hello all,

I would strongly suggest Scott Lynch's "The Lies of Locke Lamora" and "Red Seas Under Red Skies" - this is supposed to be a 7 book series.

Also Patrick Rothfuss' "The Name of the Wind" which just won the Quill Award for fantasy/SF/Horror catogory - this is the first book of a trilogy.

Both are from my home state of Wisconsin, thank you very much! view post


Was Cnauir gay? posted 17 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

The entire army of the Tusk murdered and raped - one man's soldier is another's...raper and murderer.

Cnaiur would not think of himself as a wife-beater either, that is his culture, and when you are inside your culture, you don't see the wierdness of it as an outsider would.

I think the old Japanese custom of ritual suicide is wierd, they think the American idea of "rugged individualism" wierd.

Please don't think I am anxiously responding to posts as they come in. I am a grad student and am sitting here writing a paper, and desparate for any distraction that presents itself! view post


Ok so I feel like ive read every good author in existence. posted 17 September 2007 in Literature DiscussionOk so I feel like ive read every good author in existence. by Shell, Peralogue

Hey, My boy Brett just passed John Elway today as the winning-est quarterback ever! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Harrol, you must be jealous as your favorite team probably has never even won a Superbowl...

To complete my thread above, I forgot to add Alan Campbell's &quot;Scar Night&quot; and Glen Cook's &quot;Instrumentalities of the Night&quot; series. Both of these have really strong religious themes as the PON series.

All have been written post 9/11... view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 17 September 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

Desparate, however, people will do all of the above...

I am not denying that he could use some time on the couch with his therapist every week.

Its because he is &quot;so out there&quot; that I don't think he is crazy. Insane people are always described as &quot;He was such a shy, quiet, nice boy. I never imagined he was chopping up people in his basement....&quot; ala Jeffrey Dahmer. The thing about insane people is that they seem so normal, until we dig up their backyard...

I always imagined Cnauir as, well, not ugly. He was described has having &quot;sensual lips&quot; somewhere. view post


Was Cnauir gay? posted 17 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

We can apply labels where ever we like but the only thing that does is draws a box around our own perceptions.

I like that, we are really defining ourselves when we label something. view post


Akka posted 17 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAkka by Shell, Peralogue

Frankly, I can't even come up with a good reason as to why it bothers me. Maybe because neither Esmi or Kellhus really said &quot;I'm sorry&quot; Does Kellhus ever say he is sorry to anyone? I can't recall and instance, but neither really tried to make Akka feel better.

I would have thought Akka was dead too, and Esmi did wait for him to come back for several days.

Maybe I think Esmi didn't grieve long enough, maybe had she waited 6 or 9 months to jump in the sack I would feel differently.

When Akka asks &quot;Why, why Esmenet&quot;, Kellhus just shrugged and said, &quot;I took what was given&quot; or something along those lines. Akka felt everyone looked upon him as a cuckculded (SP?) husband, and Kellhus never said &quot;Hey, guys leave him alone&quot; or &quot;Akka, we really thought you were dead, and found comfort in each other&quot;.

But Esmi is not being manipulated to the point where she doesn't love Akka. The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. And she clearly is not that towards Akka.

I really don't have a good answer as to why this bothers me so much. view post


Was Cnauir gay? posted 17 September 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

I never thought he appreciated the &quot;strangeness&quot; of his people's attitude towards women, however. He couldn't figure out to love Serwe without beating her. Hmmm, but he did love Anissi - and still beat her.

I don't think the Scylevendi culture was any stranger or eccentric than any of the others, like the ones who had heads or something in their braids. view post


James Rigney aka Robert Jordan RIP posted 18 September 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionJames Rigney aka Robert Jordan RIP by Shell, Peralogue

This is sad.

I am three books behind in the WoT series as is...

Does anyone know if the series will be finished ala Christopher Tolkien? How old was RJ and what was the &quot;horrid disease&quot;?

I hope this will encourage GRRM to write faster as he is not so young either anymore... view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 22 September 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

Well, according to the Catholic Church you don't have to be insane to be possessed... <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->

(Did I miss something? I really tried to read slow, but just had to find out &quot;what happens&quot; so read faster than I should have. Where was Cnaiur possessed?)

Curethan, I think I see where we are disagreeing. I think you are saying insane = psychopath=complete break with reality, and I am using &quot;crazy&quot; as more of a generic term, in the sense of having a grasp of reality.

Conphas - psychopath, or at least bipolar or something
Serwe - completely delusional
You could give these two Prozac by IV and they both would still completely living on another planet.

Murder and rape does not mean one is insane by itself, or every crimanal in this country would get off on an insanity plea. Besides, *eveyone&quot; rapes and murders in this story. Being female, the only person I'd feel safe with is Proyas (maybe), and Akka (he's still mooning over Esmi and wouldn't notice me). Kellhus would just talk me out of my clothes and make me think it was my own idea...

As far as killing your alliies, Cnaiur was a tool and he knew it. He wasn't hanging with these people because they were his buddies. In fact, I felt nobody even acknowledged that he was human as nobody even addressed him by name, it was always &quot;the Scylevendi&quot;. And the war was his tool to get him to Moe. It was mentioned that when the Scylevendi weren't fighting Nansur, they were fighting each other, so the concept of ally was slippery at best.

I think people can do crazy things under extreme situations. How many people have heard of mothers being &quot;crazy with grief&quot; and throwing themselves on a child's coffin? Is she really insane (break with reality)? No, but three years later and she is still doing the same thing? Probably insane.

Another real-life example. During the early part of WW II, the Nazi's cut off food to Holland during the winter of '41 or '42 - the Dutch Hunger Winter, and some really fascinating epidemiological studies have come from it. Like any story of famine, these people were eating grass, leaves, boiling shoe leather with rat meat for a touch of flavor...and eating the dead guy who froze to death the night before. When interviewing these people years later, they would say they were completly sane, but having to do crazy things to survive.

My point being that people who are under duress, may do crazy things or appear crazy, but are in touch with reality.

As far as the skin spies, once again I saw Cnaiur as using them as tools to get what he wanted, Now,(and I hope I don't get banned or whatever for this!) didn't it seem that Scott *almost* wrote these skin-spies sympathetically? At least they weren't as odious as Sarcellus, seemed to give him a modicrum of respect and even sort of had conversations?

So, OK, I will go with Cnaiur doing some really strange and &quot;crazy&quot; things, but painfully in touch with reality.

You think he is a good person? Hmmm, that is really interesting, I will have to think on that one. I absolutely agree that he was trapped between his people and the Dunyain. Maybe they are the crazy ones... <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Anyway, love the discussion! You eally make me think about things and defend my position. Thank you! view post


Nothing against female Fantasy authors but... posted 23 September 2007 in Literature DiscussionNothing against female Fantasy authors but... by Shell, Peralogue

No one mentioned Madeleine L'Engle. More geared towards a younger audience but I reread the Wrinkle in Time books a few years ago and found them still enjoyable.

Melanie Rawn has some good stuff...and some really bad stuff. view post


&quot;Murderous Children&quot; posted 24 September 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]&quot;Murderous Children&quot; by Shell, Peralogue

The &quot;murderous children&quot; caught my eye too, along with the fact that Kellhus and Esmi are still together after 20 years (I really hope Akka shows up slimmer, full head of hair with his trophy wife on arm, take that Esmi!)

First of all, Scott could've wrote &quot;murderous child&quot; and we would be pretty sure that was infant Moe. Obviously children implies more than one with homicidal tendencies - which I find strange as neither Kellhus or Esmi are particularily violent. Perhaps some genetic defect on Kellhus part since we are assuming he is rather inbred? Maybe its a twist and it is neither of these children...

Second, &quot;murderous&quot; implies a certain mindset. We know then that they are not scientists, musicians, merchants, statesmen or lawyers. view post


Question about the ending of TWP *Spoiler Warning* posted 24 September 2007 in Author Q &amp; AQuestion about the ending of TWP *Spoiler Warning* by Shell, Peralogue

OK, I know this subject has been posted on ad infinitum, but...

I don't have a quibble with whose (I'm with the Serwe camp), or why (manifestation of his *miracle* resurrection, ala the pictures of &quot;The Sacred Heart of Jesus that my Catholic relatives had), my question is HOW?

Disclaimer: I am an RN and am looking at this with a biased, medical eye!

Kellhus was bound &quot;ankle to ankle, and wrist to wrist&quot; with Serwe, correct? And I had the impression they were hanging upside-down (Serwe's black face would be from the blood pooling) and that they were there about three days, right? So Kellhus is weakened. So he is cut down, jumps to his feet, and...there is the heart!

Open-heart surgery requires a saw to cut the sternum open and then the ribs are cracked open...requires a bit of strength.

Somewhere, someone quoted that Serwe's body had been mutilated by the crowd and that possibly her stomach had been cut open, but you would still have to reach in and dig around...did I miss the digging around?

This is the reason I can't watch slasher/horror flicks, I am always saying things like &quot;Oh, COME ON, you aren't even near a major artery!&quot; or &quot;Jeez, blood doesn't spurt THAT much!&quot;

The comment made by many who have watched with me are &quot;Suspend your disbelief!&quot; I will do that if consensus tells me I am being too picky on this heart issue. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 24 September 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

Curethan,

I find it funny that you think he is a good guy, but completely insane, and I think he is completely sane, but not very nice...either way, neither one of us would want to be in the immediate vicinity of Cnauir! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Well, I will have to re-read the books again because I have no recollection of some of what you describe regarding his behavior. As someone said in this forum &quot;I have no belly to re-read the books at this time&quot;. In fact, I had to put fantasy aside (hasn't happened in a decade at least) and am reading &quot;And The Band Played On: Politics, People and the AIDS Epidemic&quot;. Nothing like depressing reality to get over depressing &quot;reality&quot; in an entirely fictional world.

Did Scott ever weigh in on this issue?

Speaking of Conphas, I wondered why he never denounced Cnauir after the rape... view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 28 September 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

I didn't get the feeling that Conphas buggery was a problem with his men. It seems they were more upset that they having to ally with lifelong enemies, the Fanim, against those of their own religion. Conphas himself was quite happy to keep Cnaiur alive after capturing him.

I also never got the feeling that homosexuality had such a prohibition against it among the Nansur as it did with the Scylvendi. After all, incest doesn't seem to be a problem in Conphas' own family. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 01 October 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

Curethan,

I keep forgetting to ask you why you think Cnaiur is hairy? It seems like he is the only one who doesn't seem to have a big, nasty, ol' beard. view post


&quot;Murderous Children&quot; posted 28 October 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]&quot;Murderous Children&quot; by Shell, Peralogue

Kessriga,

Good point. Here we are all assuming that the &quot;murderous children&quot; are those out in the world, not those who may exist and were left behind. view post


Moenghus = Mallahet? posted 01 November 2007 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeMoenghus = Mallahet? by Shell, Peralogue

Harrol,

I see that you still have that cynical streak... <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

I bet you would feel better if you were a Packer fan. view post


Moenghus = Mallahet? posted 02 November 2007 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeMoenghus = Mallahet? by Shell, Peralogue

Ah Harrol, you always cheer me up so... <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> view post


There are 'no gods' posted 01 December 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThere are 'no gods' by Shell, Peralogue

Angainawen,

I wish I had gone to your high school... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Shell view post


R Jordan passed away posted 06 December 2007 in Literature DiscussionR Jordan passed away by Shell, Peralogue

The first few are pretty good, then the middle ones are like 800 pages and a week passes by, and I haven't read the last two (they are on my list but I will have to start at the beginning again and there are so many good books out there and...)

You get the picture. view post


Just finished Thousandfold Thought posted 07 December 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtJust finished Thousandfold Thought by Shell, Peralogue

Harrol's favorite little rascal is Brett Favre...he is a huge Packer fan... view post


Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. posted 07 December 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

I personally like #8...

As I was putting off doing any schoolwork, and cruising some boards on other favorite authors, I came across a thread that says that AE will be delayed and is not being released Spring '08.

True? view post


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