Three Seas Forum

the archives

dusted off in read-only

  •  

talek Candidate | joined 21 April 2006 | 16 posts


Inri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ posted 26 April 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeInri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ by talek, Candidate

Sharp observation! Since 'Inri Sejenus' is an acronym, I suspect that many other terms are as well.

Although most of his Three Seas languages appear to be made up, there are certain cases where he uses an ancient Greek word:

psykhe soul, psyche
logos word, rationality
pragma act
tekne skill, art, expertise

The leftover "en" in "Inri Sejenus" might be the Greek preposition "en" meaning in, on, among. view post


Inri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ posted 26 April 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeInri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ by talek, Candidate

Anagke, goddess of fate, is ancient Greek word meaning necessity, force, compulsion, often personified as a goddess.

BTW, I don't think we should ask Bakker about such things; they are there to give us the fun of trying to figure them out. view post


Inri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ posted 26 April 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeInri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ by talek, Candidate

More speculatively, might "anasurimbor" be constructed from "asura", supernatural being? Perhaps with negative prefix "a"? that leaves the "imbor" unexplained, to be sure. view post


Inri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ posted 26 April 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeInri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ by talek, Candidate

"Anagogic" comes from Gr. "Anago" meaning to raise up; perhaps this refers to the raising of demons? view post


Inri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ posted 26 April 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeInri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ by talek, Candidate

Some things about ajencis suggest that he is an analogue of Aristotle. view post


Inri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ posted 26 April 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeInri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ by talek, Candidate

It is no doubt deeply significant that "Kellhus anasurimbor" is an anagram for "A lesbian humor lurks." view post


Oh,Mother! Said Oedipus at Cholonae posted 26 April 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeOh,Mother! Said Oedipus at Cholonae by talek, Candidate

this is how the Roman Emperors were. Raise someone on palace intrigue and give them absolute power - a recipe for madness. A lot of them were crazier than Xerius. view post


Kyraneas = Cyrene? posted 26 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKyraneas = Cyrene? by talek, Candidate

"Kyraneas" suggests "Cyrene," an ancient Greek colony (now Shahlat) in Lybia. OK, it's a little farfetched (although "c" and "k" are both widely used to transliterate the same Greek letter, kappa, so that Cyrene=Kyrene), but there is also this: the native Lybians called on the Egyptian Pharoah (= Mog-Pharau?) to help them throw the Greeks out. Pharaoh was, however defeated. Note that "Anaxophus," as in "Anaxophus V, defeater of Mog-Pharau," is a name of Greek flavor ("anax" = "prince"). view post


Buddhist connection? posted 26 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtBuddhist connection? by talek, Candidate

There may be a Buddhist connection; the historical Buddha was called "Shakamuni," meaning "shaka monk," where shaka = schythian = skylvendi = Skiotha. Very striking is the similarity of Kelhus' meditation based on the phrase, "The Logos has neither beginning nor end" to Zen and other Buddhist meditation techniques (although, of course, "Logos" is a Greek term - possibly roughly equivalent to the Buddhist "dharma," however). The Dunyain claim that everything reduces to causality has a reflection in the early Buddhist claim of the same nature. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 27 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by talek, Candidate

Insofar as I would use religious categories, I would go for an immanent god of everything, and various lesser gods. Immanent god of everything being identical to everything - the universe. The universe is conscious, analogically at least, insofar as it contains conscious beings. If you are conscious of a potato, then in a sense the universe is conscious of a potato.

Just as neurons make a network in the human brain, the interactions of things, and especially the interactions of people via language, make up the mind of the universe. It is quite different from the human mind, e.g., bigger and more distributed. When we think or discuss, the universe thinks.

In order for the universe to be truly self-conscious, as opposed to being conscious of this or that, in this way, there has to be a sentient being who considers him/herself to be the universe, i.e., a mystic.

The universe grows and understands itself better and better, although this process is by no means straightforward. In a way, the god of everything is in its infancy. Or at least, that's the way it looks from here.

The most important growth, IMHO, is moral growth.

One nice thing about an immanent god is that it doesn't hide itself away. Open your eyes and you will see it. Open your ears and you will hear it.

There are various processes, smaller than the universe as a whole, which can also be said, analogically at least, to have mind; if you don't like the idea of polytheism, you can think of them as angels or djinn rather than gods. Religions and ideologies are entities of this kind. If you call them gods, then you have something like the Hundred Gods in the Kiunnat tradition (althogh the number 100 is arbitrary). view post


ajencis-sejenus posted 27 April 2006 in Philosophy Discussionajencis-sejenus by talek, Candidate

It intrigues me that phonetically, "Sejenus" and "Ajencis" differ only in the ordering of their consonant sounds (assuming that the "c" is soft) and in their vowel sounds; and their vowel sounds are very closely related. As I read, I had to make a bit of an effort to keep them apart.

There is also an intriguing phonetic similarity between Kianese names and nonmen names.

Whether either of these is deliberate or significant I have no idea. view post


back to what comes before ...why Esmenet? posted 27 April 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughtback to what comes before ...why Esmenet? by talek, Candidate

At one point, Serwe thinks something about her friends, namely that they are really gods - why can't they see it? So perhaps Esmenet is a goddess (or a representation/manifestation thereof), she just doesn't know it. view post


Kyraneas = Cyrene? posted 27 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKyraneas = Cyrene? by talek, Candidate

That's what I'm assuming. I'm just trying to work out the details.

Well, there is this question: suppose we have a word in a three Seas language which has a striking resemblance to a word in an ancient Earth language. Is this (a) just a way of making the word sound ancient, to give a bit of atmosphere, (b) a reference to something in our history, the recognition of which will enrich our experience as readers, or (c) suggestive of some parallel or connection between the two worlds?

In the case of Kyreneas/Pharaoh, I'm not convinced yet that anything more than (a), plus a little coincidence, is involved.

In some cases, however, Mr. Bakker uses ancient Greek words without alteration, and in such a way that their meaning in the Three Seas is the same, or nearly the same, as their meaning in ancient Greek; for example, "Logos." This is a rather striking effect (like giving a character the name "George"). It suggests a kind of bleed-through between that world and our own. view post


Kyraneas = Cyrene? posted 27 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKyraneas = Cyrene? by talek, Candidate

Another example: "animas" in the Glossary (TTT, p. 410) is described as

The "moving force" of all existence, typically analyzed as the
"Breath of God."

Now, in Latin, "anima" means "breath," and sometimes "soul" (although this would more usually be "animus"). In the ancient world there were many who believed that the world had a soul. The soul of something was often thought of as its moving force, hence our words "animated," "animation," and so on.

The Glossary goes on to mention that some people think that this may be the same as "onta." "Onta" suggests a present participle of the ancient Greek word "to be," i.e., it could be taken to mean "being," which would be appropriate in this case.

It seems highly unlikely that these are coincidences. Whether Mr. Bakker means to suggest a bleed-through, or some other connection with our world, or whether this is just meant to be an atmospheric effect, I don't know. view post


Inchoroi, Souls, the Outside [TTT Spoilers] posted 27 April 2006 in Author Q & AInchoroi, Souls, the Outside [TTT Spoilers] by talek, Candidate

Just to add a few other possibilities:

(1) Perhaps the Inchoroi were already in trouble in the universe at large, and they thought they could escape by taking one planet and sealing it off.

The use of the term "Ark" suggests that they were already fleeing something.

One possible reason for their being in trouble in the first place might be, that in seeking immortality (or something) they tinkered with themselves too much, and lost something crucial (soul, or consciousness, or ethics, or whatever)) in the process. As a matter of fact, I think this is soon going to be a live issue for humanity in the 'real' world: we are developing genetic engineering and other forms of biotechnology, and we will soon be in a position to tinker with ourselves quite profoundly.

Their arrival seems to have been a crash rather than a landing; that is compatible with the above theory, but not accounted for by it. So perhaps the following is better:

(2) The Ark was a spaceship or satellite, or some fantasy-genre equivalent; when it crashed, all aboard were killed. The medical program aboard the Ark brought their bodies back to life, or perhaps made new bodies, but could not give them souls (or consciousness, or ethics, or whatever). It thereby (unintentionally) created abominations, which had, however, a desire to survive; hence the rest of the story.

(2*, a variant of (2)): Perhaps only the computer survived, or perhaps there was only a computer in the Ark prior to the crash, and the computer, which lacks moral judgment, has created artificial beings, including the Inchoroi, as tools, in order to give itself power in the world.

(3) Somewhere, deep in the Ark, are beings who do have souls (or whatever), but who, out of fear, have created the Inchoroi (etc.) as tools. In this they have sinned, as they know full well, so they want to seal themselves off. view post


Inri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ posted 31 May 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeInri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ by talek, Candidate

(Responding to Eru Iluvatar's list of similarities between Three Seas history and our own)

Everything on yur list seems quite reasonable. The next question, for me, is, "Is the novel just modelled on our history, or is it a comment on it?"

By the end of TTT, it seems clear that there is a profoundly evil, anti-human force behind the Holy War. Maithanet, the apparent mover and shaker behind it, is in league with Moenghius, and hence an ally of the consult. In spite of all the heroism associated with the Holy War, and the many sympathetic characters associated with it, it is a profounldy tragic event.

Nowadays, even those of European and/or Christian cultural descent would be likely to see the Crusades as also profoundly tragic, a mistake for which humanity is still paying. view post


  •  

The Three Seas Forum archives are hosted and maintained courtesy of Jack Brown