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posts by n0g0d Candidate | joined 08 Apr 2006 | 14

Kellhus's sorcery... posted 18 Apr 2006, 22:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus's sorcery... by n0g0d, Candidate

Kellhus uses the gnosis a higher level than any Mandati actually. But because he does it "properly", as he has acquired TTT, he is not marked. Is Kellhus immune to such artifacts as chorae? Since the "psukhe" is basically a failed imitation of Kellhus's personal enlightened view of what sorcery is( the Cishaurim also do not bear the mark), does that mean that Kellhus can practise Cishaurim magic. He also has other powers, glowing hands and so on. Some sort of sainthood power...why does he have to rely on abstractions? He does communicate with God, but is he not ready to simply bend reality w/o using Gnostic words? :twisted: view post

Re: Kellhus's sorcery... posted 19 Apr 2006, 08:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus's sorcery... by n0g0d, Candidate

[quote="anor277":3fhjfjaa] As far as we know Kellhus is now marked and he certainly is vulnerable to chorae - witness his action after he "teleported" to Shimeh, he conjured a vortex of whirling debris around him to protect himself from chorae projectiles. When he plucked a bolt out of the air with a chorae attached, this was a tour de force made possible only by his preternatural reflexes (had he grabbed the hot end he would have regretted it). [/quote:3fhjfjaa] I see. This is quite interesting, that though he lectured Achiaman about the use of magic and how all schoolmen were wrong he still uses the Gnosis. The Cishaurim, were probably closer to Kellhus's insight into what [b:3fhjfjaa]sorcery really is[/b:3fhjfjaa], at least conceptually. [quote:3fhjfjaa] As regards his sorcerous powers, certainly it is not yet mature - he is unpractised and inexperienced though possessed of enormous potential. Achamian himself said that he (A) would have been able to overcome him (K) as a sorceror; and the Cishaurim primaries in concert were apparently more than his match on the occasion above. Doubtless Kellhus' sorcerours power [u:3fhjfjaa]will develop in the next few years under Mandate teaching [/u:3fhjfjaa]- to the extent of [i:3fhjfjaa]surpassing his teachers (the Mandate quorum, as Achamian had warned them, are in for some interesting times)[/i:3fhjfjaa]. [/quote:3fhjfjaa] You are certainly correct in saying that Kellhus will become even more powerful as a sorceror. He could even be strong enough to fight the Mandate quorum which is the strongest sorcerous group that we know of currently([i:3fhjfjaa]I wouldn't like being in that room without a chorae[/i:3fhjfjaa]). [quote:3fhjfjaa] To echo EE, Kellhus' mastery of the thousand fold thought was something separate from his sorcery after all he grasped TTT well before Achamian's teaching.[/quote:3fhjfjaa] My contention was that as he grasped TTT, he also grasped what magic was in essence. All Schoolmen and even the Non-men, though they learned the rules and had some insight into magic never did grasp it. Awakening to TTT, Kellhus removed his heart from his chest and his hands started glowing. Then again his inspiration about the Shrial nights and Cishaurim occurred earlier...[b:3fhjfjaa]Kellhus will certainly learn more from the Gnosis but I would like to think that he will develop a parallel [i:3fhjfjaa]Shamanic[/i:3fhjfjaa] school of magic.[/b:3fhjfjaa] Being Dunayn, he might even be interested in learning about Water, from Cishaurim libraries that haven't been burned down. Being Aspect Emperor he might learn from the other Schools though their sorcery is weaker than the Gnosis. [/b] view post

posted 19 Apr 2006, 12:04 in The Thousandfold Thoughtwhy can't all cishaurim see the skins spies? by n0g0d, Candidate

[quote="Entropic_existence":1l865cde]Just thinking since you posted in the Q & A thread but does Kelhus know that the Cishaurim can see Souls? If not it is likely that he was merely mistaken with his supposition. But then again didn't Moenghus say it was he who revealed the Skin-Spies. We know they started vanishing after he arrived in Fanim lands. Ah well hopefully we will hear from Scott soon on the subject.[/quote:1l865cde] If I'm not mistaken, Skin-Spies are no longer on the Fanim Lands. The Consult have no eyes over there since Moenghus arrived. I think that Moenghus with his Dunayn training spotted them quite easily. [u:1l865cde]If the Cishaurim know what they were looking for, it might have been easier to actually find the spies, which is probably what happened.[/u:1l865cde] Moenghus remained isolated for[b:1l865cde] a long time and it was probably the Cishaurim which kept the Consult spies in check[/b:1l865cde]. The Cishaurim will prove a very useful ally for Kellhus. Killing most of the primaries will not help him achieve an alliance though, then again we do not know much about Fanim culture. Then again religion is going to be replaced by TTT. I don't think it is an inconsistency either. [u:1l865cde]I have a hunch that it is more of a practical thing.[/u:1l865cde] The skin-spies could stay away from Cishaurim, and we don't know how much the Cishaurim interact with the leaders. I think the Psukhe took a bit from their social life. view post

posted 19 Apr 2006, 16:04 in Author Q & AOutside, Dunyain, and the Anasurimbor Uncertainty Principle by n0g0d, Candidate

I like that idea of the Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle. There is a lot of finesse to it. It might be something in the new book. o_0 view post

person on cover of book 1? posted 19 Apr 2006, 16:04 in Author Q & Aperson on cover of book 1? by n0g0d, Candidate

Who is that? It is very intriguing. After getting TTT I realised it wasn't you. Who is it? The dark existentialist person, could have been Kellhus but that's not him I think. view post

Anasurimbur Uncertainty/Agoraphobia Principle posted 19 Apr 2006, 16:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAnasurimbur Uncertainty/Agoraphobia Principle by n0g0d, Candidate

[b:2r2bosfp][u:2r2bosfp]This is something I wanted to post in Q&A in EEs post but then realized it was the wrong thread so I just made up a title[/u:2r2bosfp][/b:2r2bosfp] Damnation would be an outside agency. Something that they do not understand or have no control on. As EE said it is the ultimate wild card. TTT seems to bypass the Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle as things like Damnation and so on seem to get an answer. Something like a religion...with a lot of universalistic philosophy. I suppose there could be a logic to the physical and spiritual but the Dunayn are not very open to the latter as it is not something they were conditioned for. The Dunayn are not[b:2r2bosfp] well informed people [/b:2r2bosfp]and tend to have a phobia for things that they have not been able to infer on their own through logic within their fortress. Anasurimbur Conditioned Agoraphobia? Even Kellhus's first encounter with Merketrig was an example of that. They do not seem to understand what the soul is? Wanting to be a self-moving soul might be something they need to rethink [b:2r2bosfp][u:2r2bosfp]unless[/u:2r2bosfp] [/b:2r2bosfp]they have the chance of getting away with their initial premise by shutting the world from those other agencies. view post

posted 19 Apr 2006, 22:04 in The Thousandfold Thoughtwhy can't all cishaurim see the skins spies? by n0g0d, Candidate

What I mean is that Anasurimbur Moenghus was immersed in the Probability Trance for years. He seems to have kept himself to the labyrinths under that tree. He was also busy breaking the skin-spies. Yet, the Consult [b:1lohref2]was no longer able to infiltrate the Fanim world! [/b:1lohref2]They feared Moenghus. They had no idea what would be waiting them. Now it seems that the Cishaurim only use those snakes when necessary. It probably uses Water. They don't scope everyone and try to look at the soul all the time. Moenghus who excelled at Third Sight detected them with the inconsistencies in their voices. He simply wasn't looking. How they interact with their snakes is not very known, as in different levels of vision. [u:1lohref2]Looking at how shiny one soul is, isn't something very relevant I think, so it might not be something they do all the time.[/u:1lohref2] But then once they know what to look for, I suppose they can use their skill and screen everyone. Moenghus being intelligent would probably have every influential person checked like Kellhus did. [u:1lohref2]Not one could infiltrate the Fanim [/u:1lohref2]world whilst Moenghus was in his hole...Shimeh is big. The Cishaurim must have been taking care of that how else could Moenghus keep the [b:1lohref2]Consult completely clueless. [/b:1lohref2] They just were showed what to look for. It's simple. It's not abstract though. It is plausible. A lot is of the paths,[u:1lohref2] not necessarily the shortest though.[/u:1lohref2] view post

posted 19 Apr 2006, 22:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAnasurimbur Uncertainty/Agoraphobia Principle by n0g0d, Candidate

[quote="Entropic_existence":22h44l2h]Damnation must exist as a reality outside of religous constructs. We likely will never know all of the metaphysical details, Scott has stated his reasons why. As to whether Sorcerors are inherently Damned, and if Kelhus' new revelations actually mean anything remains to be seen, if we will ever have it revealed to us that is.[/quote:22h44l2h] Also the reason why Kellhus kills his dad is because he[b:22h44l2h] IS Dunayn. [/b:22h44l2h] The Dunayn and Consult are his enemies. Moenghus even if given all the facts Kellhus holds. If Moenghus opens his mind and "understands" all the new information Kellhus got through the TTT. Or rather all the information the TTT is making him believe, he will simply side with Consult and want to shut the world off. Hence damnation IS a wild card. [u:22h44l2h]Then again there is the possibility that it is a wildcard at least for humans,[/u:22h44l2h] even if they are Anasurimbur. The World seems to control Kellhus. Seraswatha was also a Shaman.[u:22h44l2h] The world was again talking through him when he made the Anasurimbur prophecy.[/u:22h44l2h] The World protects itself I suppose. Kellhus's dad wanted to fight the Consult. Yet Kellhus killed him because he knew that given the right amount of information, Moenghus would side with the Consult as this would be his [b:22h44l2h]cultural shortest and only path....[/b:22h44l2h] Finally I grasp the Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle. :P I think Kellhus the Dunayn's[b:22h44l2h] biggest [/b:22h44l2h]enemy ever! Kellhus seems to be the avatar of all those outside agencies. Ironic he uses Dunayn skills/Sorcery to carry his deeds when he stands for the opposite. view post

posted 19 Apr 2006, 23:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus's sorcery... by n0g0d, Candidate

[quote="Warrior-Poet":2gepdqi0]I agree with EE and Mahajanga. Im just not understanding where some of your ideas are coming from when most of your questions have been answered in the books and by Scott himself.[/quote:2gepdqi0] Well my idea is that it is quite possible for Kellhus to transcend the cognitive side as well as the emotional side of sorcery. He does show how both are actually limited. Maybe because of time he relied on the Gnosis. That was all he had at that point. Ideally he should go further. Then again is he capable of that. Is there limits to the abilities his lineage has conferred to him? view post

posted 20 Apr 2006, 11:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAnasurimbur Uncertainty/Agoraphobia Principle by n0g0d, Candidate

[quote="Entropic_existence":1w9rdb0b]To be fair he made one Prophecy, but being a Prophet is much more than this. No Shamans have existed, or at least been declared Shamans, since the Chronicles of the Tusk so yea WP Seswatha was not a Shaman :) Anyway as I said Damnation must exist as seperate reality from religious belief and convention. Yes Kelhus figures that the Dunyain would ultimately side with the Consult and I theorized that this is because Damnation is a wild card for various reasons. I'm not really sure where you are going with the rest of it n0g0d, you took a few snippets of what I said and then argued it back to me and went in a few different directions in your first post.[/quote:1w9rdb0b] Yes I think I tend to do that....but it is not intentional. Kellhus to Achiaman:TTT Pg 216, "Because you're a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me. Akka. The old revelations have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Shortest Path, and I say that you are[i:1w9rdb0b] not damned[/i:1w9rdb0b]." According to what Kellhus says, he understands and can predict outside agencies. This could mean that: 1/ It is a lie. He did say he was God but then he is very limited.(just before)-paraphrasing Moenghus: TTT has outgrown its vessel maybe. 2/ It is true, but understanding those agencies will be impossible for the Dunayn. Hence they are a threat. But I understand your point that damnation is [u:1w9rdb0b]not simply a question[/u:1w9rdb0b] of: not have sex too much/ not practise sorcery too much and so on. Its a concept that cannot be simplified to DOs and DONTs, like the Quran. Kellhus may not grasp all those concepts himself. But he seems to be fed thoughts from God. That might be where escapes the [u:1w9rdb0b]Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle. [/u:1w9rdb0b] God is trying to protect itself. It is[b:1w9rdb0b] bribing ppl with an escape from damnation [/b:1w9rdb0b] to prevent the Holocaust which may harm it?Consult want to Prevent the natural cycle of things-life cycle of God will be altered.... Honestly, I think I am siding with the[b:1w9rdb0b]Mog-Pharau[/b:1w9rdb0b] though I don't know if God will be killed permanently or it is something that lasts just for some time. God seems like a being that is parasitical to our souls.(Like the Matrix-where the matrix is a living being as opposed to being divided into several entities-architect so on) Dunayn want to break free. Can the Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle be overcome by the gift of Prophecy? [u:1w9rdb0b]That would still be against Dunayn goal of being self moving souls.[/u:1w9rdb0b] view post

posted 20 Apr 2006, 13:04 in The Thousandfold Thoughtwhy can't all cishaurim see the skins spies? by n0g0d, Candidate

I did think about Consult not sending in more spies as they are precious resources. But then I thought in more practical terms. They could infiltrate it gradually. No need to go directly to Shimeh. Probe the outskirts and see what happens. [u:2jaz1mwz]The Consult, not being stupid[/u:2jaz1mwz], will not just keep sending skin-spies to mimic the leaders within Shimeh. The Fanim world was closed to them. To such an extent that they had no idea of what was going on and they feared Moenghus was more powerful than Kellhus. They thought Kellhus not to be their main enemy. I am sure they can deploy skin-spies carefully.... Also the Cishaurim is the enemy of the Consult. They hate Cishaurim. Possibly because Moenghus is Cishaurim, but it seems they know that Moenghus is just a manipulator or maybe not at that time. Cishaurim may have been used against the Consult, though they were not even aware of the Consult's existence. [quote:2jaz1mwz]Umm how exactly is Seswatha a shaman? A shaman is a Prophet who practices sorcery Seswatha was just the Grandmaster of the Sohonc not a prophet at all.[/quote:2jaz1mwz] By being a sorcerer and making a prophecy. I didn't mean Celmomas. Fair enough, one prophecy does not make a prophet, but it was a huge one! EE did say the definition of Shaman started afterwards though. [b:2jaz1mwz]That [/b:2jaz1mwz]was good! I don't see any evidence that there is an inconsistency so far. view post

posted 20 Apr 2006, 13:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus's sorcery... by n0g0d, Candidate

So Kellhus is going to be an extremely powerful sorceror. I thought that his understanding of how marking and non-marking occur would mean he could prevent that process. It would be good if he could become God though. The No-God is probably going to be arrive at some point, but it seems to be just a mysterious but very powerful being. Not something omnipotent. Though God could have stopped him so God might not be that omnipotent either. Unless God calculated everything and knows the world will not be closed. view post

posted 20 Apr 2006, 13:04 in The Thousandfold Thoughtwhy can't all cishaurim see the skins spies? by n0g0d, Candidate

[quote="Mahajanga Mordecai":7ghsgv6a]What prophecy did Seswatha make? It's called the CELMOMIAN prophecy, not the Seswathan Prophecy. Seswatha never prophecied anything! Also the definition of Shaman predates Seswatha. It was used to describe apostates in Eanna who discovered and practiced sorcery.[/quote:7ghsgv6a] Yes! I got that wrong completely.I thought Seswatha did it. Sorry all! view post

posted 22 Apr 2006, 12:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus's sorcery... by n0g0d, Candidate

Does anyone think that Kellhus will be able to remove his mark? I don't think he will be able to achieve immunity to chorae. Do you think that Kellhus will investigate the Daimos? He probably has insight into what the No-God is. But I am sure he wants to find out more about it. As the Aspect-Emperor do you think the Daimos is something he will delve in? He might ask a Scarlet Spire Schoolman to summon something for him so that he doesn't have to learn it himself. Summoning things beyond to glean information might be sensible. What do you reckon? view post


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