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nvyxxus_negus Commoner | joined 24 March 2006 | 6 posts

Seswatha=Kellhus? Nau-Cayuti=Achamian? (Or not ...) posted 25 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha=Kellhus? Nau-Cayuti=Achamian? (Or not ...) by nvyxxus_negus, Commoner

how about the dream where seswatha drags nau-cayuti and others to find the heron spear under false pretenses? he explains he lied because 1.) he couldn't do it alone, and 2.)'what we do here do is more important than truth or LOVE,' (n-c's love for a woman). to me this whole dream seems like a role-reversal. (the sorcerer represents the present-day man/dunyain, the man represents the sorcerer in THIS era. Who does Seswatha sound like in this dream -who do his words remind me of in the present -? his arguments and machinations remind me of Kellhus' actions/words to his 'followers' during the Holy War -in fact, Seswatha's words here could be spoken directly to Achamian by Kellhus (quite nicely) if the present era were transferred to Earwa's past; Esmenet being the greatest bone of contention between the two. the figure of Seswatha in that dream is a 'Kellhus' type figure, while young Nau-Cayuti, all concerned with finding his woman -'she.' ...'where is she?'- speaks to the senses like the present Achamian. Like he was a forerunner of Achamian, a life lived along tandem lines thousands of yrs. before. it seems like there's something to the dunyain's assertion that the 'past' determines the present -something vital and still unexplained.

as to the following dream, where Seswatha/Achamian answers the No-God's/Anaxophus' questions, well it seems as though Achamian is back in the tutor/teacher role, affirming something even though he doesn't want to-! maybe once someone (anyone?) speaks out a description in an attempt to 'define' the No-God, he is formed, he comes into 'being.' by speaking so, i thought maybe Achamian actually brought him to the fullness of existence ...of course the circumstances of this 'naming' are strange, confusing -but the dream changes just as the present world Achamian occupies begins to change, as well. (once again, the present seems to be reforming the past.) the No-God's questions seem desperate, almost childlike -or else just completely honed to simplicity, to the most basic of desires: see me, name me, tell me of my significance, etc.

this is why (horrors!) i've actually considered kellhus himself as the No-God. he seemed to reach some sort of pinnacle right around the same time as Achamian had these dreams -found his father, pronounced himself as 'more,' etc.

just thoughts, though. view post

DELETED posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtDELETED by nvyxxus_negus, Commoner

on the word in particular: Aspect ... went back to review (going over what has 'gone before' to better see the ties to what comes after -beginning again in TDTCB) and found, in Inrau's death scene, his brief homage at the goddess Onkis' 'temple' in Sumna just prior to his death. here it talks of Onkis holding the power of/being/bringing the 'Aspect' -i.e., a power lifting a certain 'desire' in the hearts of men- a desire to reach for more, somehow. this small definition is ambiguous in that it adds that sometimes men under the influence of this 'aspect' can overextend, reach for more, in fact, than they can hold. Inrau, lost in thought and considering the goddess, also describes her as 'coming before' him -a meaning that i'm sure goes beyond the literal. and, although he says he's found his place of 'peace' in Onkis' temple, he also curses her for her 'adulteries' moments later, when the synthese and the two corrupt shrial soldiers appear- even though it seems she answers his prayers- for strength, and then, to 'make me like a pillar.' somehow he does find the strength to give his life, to reach back for his old talents- to use the Gnosis, even though it goes against his beliefs as a Thousand Temples' prelate/scholar. I noted the word, Aspect, though, and wondered about what it portends for Kellhus' forthcoming rule as emperor. also bound to this (it seems,) is Esmenet, for we see the chapters following Inrau's death dealing with a surer knowledge of her, how she thinks of men- how she asks them of their journeys ostensibly to learn more of the wider world, but how none of them hesitate to confess -because they always and forever want to appear, to BE, 'more.' Again- i saw Onkis, the Aspect, and the desire in men to 'reach for more,' as hinted. Esmenet could be an archetype of Onkis, literally walking the world of Earwa. Scott put the word 'Aspect' in his next novel for a reason, surely- is it connected only to this desire to achieve/hold 'more' in the men of his world -or does it refer to kellhus himself? has Kellhus overreached, or does he desire to aid the threatened world of men in reaching for more? does the true 'aspect,' belong to whoever holds Esmenet- is it directly connected to her at all? it sounds as if Onkis can be fickle -and then there are Esmenet's occasional moments of profound meaning in the ch.'s re. her. either way, 'Aspect' has a deeper meaning all by itself. view post

Batathent -a palm cupped round the remnants of civilization posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtBatathent -a palm cupped round the remnants of civilization by nvyxxus_negus, Commoner

returning to TDTCB, i saw in Achamian's journey from Sumna to Momemn that a certain city, Batathent, where Drusas camped for the night, was described by the sorcerer as 'a cupped palm cradling the glowing remnants of civilization' during the First Apocalypse. This reference drew me forward in the books to the 'glowing' palms of Kellhus, and everyone's awe at the oddity. Even Kellhus himself wonders at it, during his con. w/Moenghus. Having run the gamut of possibilites where Kellhus is concerned -at the WCS considering the Dunyain the No-God himself, and at the best, some sort of saviour- I can't help but think that in truth, he may very well fall somewhere in-between. or even, somewhere 'outside.' (hah-! another consideration, if you consider the meaning of the 'outside' in the books.) Perhaps he will be an archetype of this ancient city, Batathent: a palm cupped around the remaining men of Earwa in the devastation(?) to come. Or perhaps his purpose is greater, if still somewhat beyond or 'outside' the considerations of the civilized world as it stands in TTT: perhaps he will serve as a protecting hand for the gods themselves. of course this could only be true if the gods somehow lost their deific powers -maybe with the No-God's return ..? I've already said that Esmenet seems to present an archetype of the goddess Onkis -maybe the gods are already walking the earth, in some portion(?). At one point in TTT, Kellhus tells Esmenet she will be 'the first,' in what appears to be a profound moment. Ok; 'the first' to what-? the first god to come under his protection? the first god to defect (and then, to defect to what, exactly)? to be deceived? to be made defunct? or is she just a woman in a position of unrealized power that he needs to win over? we know she's not really the first wife, so ... And Kellhus seems at times so ...oh, i.d.k. -manipulative, you wonder if his concerns are coming from a place of compassion (for men), or a thirst for total domination. But if -if!- his purposes are 'outside' of the two extreme possibilities -Absolute power and domination, or Saviour of men- his coldness, his urgency in finding the Shortest Path, make more sense. He doesn't have to LIKE his methods, if he recognizes humanity's need of him -or the gods' need of him; time is of the essence if he is some sort of protector- he only has so much time to achieve his ends. (Too bad we have no certainty of what those ends are-! haha) The word No-God is also ambiguous -is the No-God an actual person, a living entity, or is it a 'state,' a state absented of the other 'hundred gods' presence, eh? This is why I considered him (Kellhus) as the No-God. He could represent a time period where mens' thoughts of the gods become sort of meaningless, in some way. view post

back to what comes before ...why Esmenet? posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughtback to what comes before ...why Esmenet? by nvyxxus_negus, Commoner

ok; why Esmenet? going back to TDTCB, i've studied her person. in the chapters on Esmi, we see men of all walks of life coming to her room, paying her, some abandoning her eventually (shrial priest). seems pretty basic. but because i got stalled on Inrau's death scene, i noted Inrau's homage to the goddess Onkis -and that tiny, ambiguous definition of 'the Aspect' she brings-and started drawing parallels. In the ch's. following on Esmenet, we see a shrial priest, a soldier, and various other representations of 'men' worshipping at the whore's altar, right? (Of course there's Achamian- but she refuses to take money from him. 'Not YOU too,' she says.) if esmenet is an archetype of Onkis, then who does Drusas represent, eh? or kellhus? is Onkis more kindly disposed to sorcerers, or is it just Esmi's desire for the intellectual? (Onkis DID answer Inrau's prayers, though not in the manner he'd hoped, i bet.) or maybe she just senses SINCERITY -though even that might only hold her momentarily. (why does her favor end up so highly sought-after? 'jealous of a whore-?' the customer Achamian spies on asks.) There's also the incident, just after Achamian departs, when (what i assume is) the Synthese comes to Esmi and draws a normally pragmatic whore into throes of bestial pleasure. rem. he plops a gold coin onto her belly -she stares at it, thinking of real 'truths.' However we also see that this incident -the synthese's power- upsets Esmenet; she says her intellect questions where her body has been all too easily led. (maybe, but she was STILL led, whether by a need for food or a desire to remain 'her own.') i assume the 'intellect' is a part of Esmenet that she cherishes-and also the portion of her makeup that Achamian appeals to. She also makes statements in these ch's. about 'truth,' and 'games'-'there is TRUTH in a game,' and the time she tells Achamian that men cannot touch truth with their fingers, cannot capture it, only claim it, etc. (now look ahead and see Kellhus' followers saying, 'Truth shines.') Can these intermittent allusions to 'games' figure in the grander scheme? of course they can/probably do! Likewise, there is a ch. mixed in w/Achamian in Batathent, and then later at the camp of Xinemus, where the two men play benjuka- Achamian always gets the stone, and ponders why. these things are going to be momentous, i think. ever take and look for the word 'more' over a few chapters? esmenet's ch's have that word quite often -men wanting to be 'more;' they always want to be 'more.' Onkis/Aspect. i hate to think mr. bakker set the entirety up this precisely -more likely it's my imagination, but the man IS a philosopher and the first book took 15 yrs. to write. on second thought, i don't hate to think it at all-but the parallels are mind boggling, if you go back to 'what comes before' and reconsider. this is almost like a study challenge from college-! (hmm -another parallel ... ) view post

Cnaiur posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by nvyxxus_negus, Commoner

i agree w/Curethan. Through it all, Cnaiur has definitely stood apart -again, 'outside' other characters' reasoning and motives. he has his own motivation, walks his own path. ok; it may be madness drawn from suffering and denial, it may be pure hate, but it is HIS hate, his madness. he talks about Moenghus leading him into an uncharted path -off the beaten track, so to speak. (but why did Moenghus do it? and is kellhus like his dad, then- also leading ppl 'offroad?' if so, why? don't tell me it is all about this 'Absolute!' Humbug!) you have to kind of admire that inability to be swayed that Cnaiur has. i admit i've wished to see him succeed from the end of TDTCB -except to kill kellhus -there were still too many ambiguities there; too much mystery. (have you noticed that there are several characters who have stressed this type of self-awareness: they are their OWN, their motives are their OWN, etc.? achamian seems the same, and on occasion, esmenet ...) view post

back to what comes before ...why Esmenet? posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughtback to what comes before ...why Esmenet? by nvyxxus_negus, Commoner

i can see my late arrival is showing- sorry for the lengthy posts. i just wonder if anyone sees any of the same... i'll search the old discussions instead and hope not to offend further <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> . view post


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