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Virus Candidate | joined 20 March 2006 | 25 posts


Transhumanism and Genetic Engineering posted 26 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionTranshumanism and Genetic Engineering by Virus, Candidate

I voted no.

Genetic engineering as an answer to imperfection prescribed by nature is absurd. We have too many people on this planet as it is.

Patching up bad breeding with a quick fix would eliminate decent, diligent people striving to better themselves to find good mates. After all, why be responsible when you could abort/alter the product of crack binge sex?

I believe nature knows best. To circumvent the long process of evolution which cultivates the noble and strong-willed for a prepackaged version is an insult both to nature and mankind. view post


Transhumanism and Genetic Engineering posted 28 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionTranshumanism and Genetic Engineering by Virus, Candidate

In other words, unless you demonstrate how anything humans (= biological organisms) do can take place outside of evolution, I do not find this argument compelling.


I am not saying that humans are separate from evolution; only that artificially accomplishing what would normally require better people is not the answer. To accept it as such is to surrender to consumerism, to mediocrity.

Also, I think you'll have to show how evolution "cultivates the stong-willed and the noble".


Think Darwin.

To my mind evolution simply caters to the lucky, and those who have more lottery tickets are more likely to be lucky.


This is slave mentality.

It enhances our ability to react to change (a bit like a homeostatic system, really)


Sure, if you need plenty of factory drones.

Evolution is very effective at achieving its own goals, which is creating lifeforms that are good at reproducing.


Yes it is, and you can bet it will kill us off if we continue our arrogance.

But, as those same overpopulation problems prove, evolution is flawed too.


How can evolution be flawed?

Due to the ways it works it is unable to solve problems in the most efficient way, it can only take small steps.


What? What is the most efficient way?

Talent is useless if not applied.


Exactly. Good genetics is a privilege. To be able to pass on your genes is a privilege.

people don't chose their "mates" based on their genes anyway.


Oh? So what do they base it on then?

I fail to see the relevance of abortion and crack binge sex to this debate.


I fail to see how your sentence is relevant either but I guess you missed the joke.

It cultivates the smart and the rapid-breeding. Are rats strong-willed and noble? Are cockroaches?


So you admit that the human race’s current route is destined to the likes of these vermin?

Society will always favour the strong-willed.


Does our society favor the strong or the highest bidder? I believe it is the latter. view post


Transhumanism and Genetic Engineering posted 29 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionTranshumanism and Genetic Engineering by Virus, Candidate

Because it can only ever favour short-term advantages.


Short-term advantages? Some species are nearly as old as the planet itself! I believe you are talking about technology…

Something that will only prove helpful generations down the line will never evolve.


Evolution is a never-ending process, what are you talking about?

That's why our spines aren't suited for walking upright, and will give back-problems to vast quantities of people. That's why our eyes have blind spots. That's why there are tons of genetic disabilities and diseases, people born with defects so hideous they cannot survive for more than a couple of years or decades.


These defects are the product of bad breeding and nature intended this, She is not wrong. If a species grows slovenly then it will become extinct as deserved.

By the way, where did you get that spine information?

Recessive traits survive a very long time even if they're disadvantageous.


So what if eugenics takes long?

A human engineer can improve on problems such as these. Unlike evolution, which is a blind process, a human can see what he's doing, where he's going, what he wants to accomplish. He can attempt solutions far more ambitious than evoltion can, and far more quickly.


Please explain how evolution is a “blind” process. Also, the majority of humans cannot “see what they’re doing” look at all the damage we have already caused the planet.

And will evolution kill us of because of hubris? Ha! It's not a god or something... we have mastered the food chain. We might be decimated by some new disease, but other than that biological threats are few and far between. (and against diseases, genetic engineering may well prove the prime weapon) Man is far more likely to destroy himself with nuclear weapons or enviromental abuse than anything natural.


I was merely pointing out that nature finds a way toward balance. Man should discover and appreciate nature and this balance, since he is a part of it, rather than trying to conquer it. Also, you said yourself that overpopulation has become a problem. How about depletion of resources?


When gene manipulation is as easy as making a choice it oversimplifies a vastly complex process. Nature gives us our frailties for a reason, or would you have us be immortal?

What do you mean by "articial" in an evolutionary context?


Now you’re just playing semantic games. Get real.

How does modifying genetic material to (for example) better resist certain diseases equate to conformistic behaviour?


Ok let me put it this way, would you take the time to raise your own child or have one molded to your liking using some magic machine? view post


Transhumanism and Genetic Engineering posted 19 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionTranshumanism and Genetic Engineering by Virus, Candidate

It's a little late but...

123. If you think that big government interferes in your
life too much NOW, just wait till the government starts
regulating the genetic constitution of your children.
Such regulation will inevitably follow the introduction
of genetic engineering of human beings, because the
consequences of unregulated genetic engineering would be
disastrous. [19]

124. The usual response to such concerns is to talk about
"medical ethics." But a code of ethics would not serve to
protect freedom in the face of medical progress; it would
only make matters worse. A code of ethics applicable to
genetic engineering would be in effect a means of
regulating the genetic constitution of human beings.
Somebody (probably the upper-middle class, mostly) would
decide that such and such applications of genetic
engineering were "ethical". and others were not, so that
in effect they would be imposing their own values on the
genetic constitution of the population at large. Even if
a code of ethics were chosen on a completely democratic
basis, the majority would be imposing their own values on
any minorities who might have a different idea of what
constituted an "ethical" use of genetic engineering. The
only code of ethics that would truly protect freedom
would be one that prohibited ANY genetic engineering of
human beings, and you can be sure that no such code will
ever be applied in a technological society. No code that
reduced genetic engineering to a minor role could stand
up for long, because the temptation presented by the
immense power of biotechnology would be irresistible,
especially since to the majority of people many of its
applications will seem obviously and unequivocally good
(eliminating physical and mental diseases, giving people
the abilities they need to get along in today's world).
Inevitably, genetic engineering will be used extensively,
but only in ways consistent with the needs of the
industrial-technological system. [20]

TECHNOLOGY IS A MORE POWERFUL SOCIAL FORCE THAN THE
ASPIRATION FOR FREEDOOM

125. It is not possible to make a LASTING compromise
between technology and freedom, because technology is by
far the more powerful social force and continually
encroaches on freedom through REPEATED compromises.
Imagine the case of two neighbors, each of whom at the
outset owns the same amount of land, but one of whom is
more powerful than the other. The powerful one demands a
piece of the other's land. The weak one refuses. The
powerful one says, "OK, let's compromise. Give me half of
what I asked." The weak one has little choice but to give
in. Some time later the powerful neighbor demands another
piece of land, again there is a compromise, and so forth.
By forcing a long series of compromises on the weaker
man, the powerful one eventually gets all of his land. So
it goes in the conflict between technology and freedom.


Ted Kaczynski

The rest: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.apostate.com/politics/unabomber-manifesto.html">http://www.apostate.com/politics/unabom ... festo.html</a><!-- m --> view post


FAN ART posted 27 April 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionFAN ART by Virus, Candidate

Cnaiur =

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FAN ART posted 30 April 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionFAN ART by Virus, Candidate

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Khellus &amp; Cnaiur &amp; Swazond??? view post


Who is most offensive. posted 04 May 2006 in Literature DiscussionWho is most offensive. by Virus, Candidate

I agree, those who find PON offensive would be of most use as cannon fodder. view post


Where in the world is R. Scott Bakker? posted 10 May 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionWhere in the world is R. Scott Bakker? by Virus, Candidate

There is an idea of a Scott Bakker, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real him, only an entity. Something illusory.

And though he can hide his cold gaze, and you can shake his hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense your lifestyles are probably comparable, he is simply not there. view post


The Future Dunyain of the Three Seas. posted 15 May 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Future Dunyain of the Three Seas. by Virus, Candidate

1) The Dunyain are selectively bred humans. All the traits they possess are those that humans possess. They have been selected for high end intelligence and reflexes, things which also occur in &quot;wild&quot; humans. They Dunyain are still human, they just possess specific genetic traits.


They were far more isolated, their genetics are far superior even if some traits occur in wild humans. Even with their impeccable eugenics, they still have defectors, what are the odds of a mongrel becoming anything comparable to a Dunyain?

2) They are extensively trained and conditioned. There is nothing magical about Ishual that makes it the only place that can provide that training. What Ishual has is the resources, a structured enviroment, and instructors. Kellhus will have access to the entire resources of an empire and is quite familiar with the what is required to train Dunyain.


They are born in darkness and live in darkness; how would Khellus be able to have his kid be born in a cave and then leave him there without instilling suspicion in his followers? How would he be able to live in the cave 24/7 to train the kid while running an empire?

4) Maithanet displays all the traits of a Dunyain, even if his skills are in Moenghus's judgement (a man who has been wrong several times) inferior. Even if a Dunyain trained in the Three Seas is inferior to one trained at Ishual, they are still formidable. They can still spot Skin Spys, engage them in battle, and manipulate the hearts of World born men.


Mongrel Maithanet is able to pave the way and not create it. The Holy War is an example. He created the momentum, but left the men to their own devices. This is probably a weak example but Moenghus has had 30 years to judge the power of his son, so I doubt he is wrong. view post


halloed hands posted 20 May 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughthalloed hands by Virus, Candidate

Is there any significance to the haloes being around his hands and not his head? view post


haha, fine, &quot;the beer thread&quot; happy? posted 20 May 2006 in Off-Topic Discussionhaha, fine, &quot;the beer thread&quot; happy? by Virus, Candidate

Donne-moi une Bleue tabarnaque. view post


Questions about Moenghus's death. posted 20 May 2006 in Author Q &amp; AQuestions about Moenghus's death. by Virus, Candidate

More importantly: Why all the homoeroticism??? view post


halloed hands posted 20 May 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughthalloed hands by Virus, Candidate

Yeah but it isn't some arbitrary thing. The head contains the mind whereas the hands contain...? view post


nonmen posted 24 May 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughtnonmen by Virus, Candidate

They're taller. view post


Cnaiur posted 01 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Virus, Candidate

Cnaiur is Gilgaol lol, view post


Conphas' story posted 01 June 2006 in Author Q &amp; AConphas' story by Virus, Candidate

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Inri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ posted 01 June 2006 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeInri Sejenus VS. Jesus Christ by Virus, Candidate

*Spoilers* view post


Good Program to rip Streaming videos? posted 01 June 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionGood Program to rip Streaming videos? by Virus, Candidate

like stuff off of youtube or .mov files? view post


Favorite Quote or Part of books posted 06 June 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionFavorite Quote or Part of books by Virus, Candidate

Anything involving Yalgrota. He is totally badass. view post


First Scott, then the rest of us... posted 15 June 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionFirst Scott, then the rest of us... by Virus, Candidate

Hello gentlemen. view post


nonmen posted 05 July 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughtnonmen by Virus, Candidate

Nonmen were men before their transformation by the Inchoroi...possible? view post


Transhumanism and Genetic Engineering posted 05 July 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionTranshumanism and Genetic Engineering by Virus, Candidate

Quote: &quot;vercint&quot;:m2feqs7h
Nice, virus

Of course, freedom is merely an illusion; we are all slaves of the darkness that comes before...

There is no real trade off between freedom and technology. The first is a concept we like to pretend we have in order to make our lives seem significant, the second is a historical phenomenon that has fundamentally changed our lives and continues to do so, quite independently of whether we want it to or not. Of course, in order to maintain the illusion that our choices actually matter society debates whether to make further technological advances or not, when in fact progress -- or whatever you want to call it -- proceeds not through a collective decision by society or government, but through the aggregate of individual discoveries by scientists; just as history is not the result of large, visible events but of the sum of small, marginal events that are unrecorded because, indivdually, they don't matter.

Nevertheless, it would be awesome to manufacture a Kellhus or ten and unleash on the world. After all, we've already got a holy war for him...[/quote:m2feqs7h]

You are right, of course, but I think that man is happier when he is outside.

Quote: &quot;MrJims&quot;:m2feqs7h
Sorry, still new to the system and can't quote. Or attach to a post for that matter. Buy anyway, Entropic_exsistence said.

There is a very good reason why we don't do this with humans much, because the fact is we don't know as much as we sometimes think we do, at least not on the practical level. We build very good models of how things work, we haven't yet learned enough to make 100% accurate simulations. The trials for gene therapy for instance haven't been spectacular, and when two kids died there was a moratorium placed on alot of the research avenues, at least at the clinical stage.


There is more learned in failure than sucess. Granted certain failures could be terminal to the species. I think that one of the main fears, though hidden behind many rationales is that man does not want to become second class, even to his own creation/evolution. With computers we can argure that they only enhance us as oppose to replace. Mind you I am the pizza man and my related scientific info on the matter could fit under your fingernails. As for human losses in the name of research it begs the mean question. What is the price of salvation.[/quote:m2feqs7h]

1 all-dressed 1 pepperoni


I think it's cruel and arrogant to state we should &quot;let nature take its course&quot; and let people who had bad luck in the genetic draw suffer and die. There's no reason to suppose that the way things have been in the past is the way things are &quot;meant to be&quot; at all. And when you say we should do this so we do not lose our opportuny to express compassion... well. I am dumbfounded. You are not expressing much compassion here. Let people suffer so you can then show compassion for them? Do you not see the inherent contradiction in this?

Pain is bad. We should pity people in pain.

As for &quot;creating a monster&quot;... well, I somehow doubt the odds of that happening are very great. This is not a horror movie after all. Why should nature be inherently better than humans? But as you can read earlier in the thread, current gene therapies do not run this risk as they do not actually tamper with inheritable qualities. They just seek to treat the symptoms of disease and disability in the individual, much like ordinary medicine does, though different in its methods.

jesus immortality plz lol view post


nonmen posted 09 July 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughtnonmen by Virus, Candidate

Yes but do we know for sure that they were different than men before the inchoroi or could this be the name men attributed to them when they recorded their history? hmm? view post


nonmen posted 11 July 2006 in The Thousandfold Thoughtnonmen by Virus, Candidate

Oh.
--------

What about the description of The Battle of Trantis Bay? &quot;...thereby denying the First Holy War its primary source of water...&quot; Does this mean there are more holy wars coming??

lol view post


NLP posted 29 July 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionNLP by Virus, Candidate

Stop posting. view post


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