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unJon Auditor | joined 08 February 2006 | 134 posts


Inrau's sorcery posted 09 March 2006 in Author Q & AInrau's sorcery by unJon, Auditor

Yes it does seem that Inrau would either 1) not know how to cast a really damaging Cant or 2) already be damned, given Akka's comments to Kellhus in TTT. Scott has already ignored this question once (further down the list on this forum) so I'm not hopeful that he'll answer it. My hunch is that its an error, unless Scott does let us know some explanation.

The only plausible explanation (though a bit far fetched) that I could think of, was that Akka taught Inrau some cants using a different method than the Mandate normally does, after Inrau fled the Mandate. Perhaps Akka woried about his students life (either from the Consult in an off the stage scene of TDTCB, or from the Mandate sometime before the book took place). I still have trouble squaring it with Akka's comments in TTT to Kellhus, however.

WP, IIRC, once you cast one single Cant you are Marked for life. That's the impression I got from the Akka/Kellhuss scene with the Doll in TWP along with numerous other places in the books. view post


What should we have anticipated? posted 09 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhat should we have anticipated? by unJon, Auditor

True WP, I think we can trace back the idea of a sorceror being marked at least as far back as the Christian idea of witches having the mark of the devil. Likely Christianity borrowed this idea from somewhere else that I'm not aware of. view post


Schools of the 3 seas posted 10 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSchools of the 3 seas by unJon, Auditor

I think its safe to assume that any human sorcerors hanging out on non-men mansions are more likely to be Gnostic than Anagogic. The non-men don't have the Seswatha prescription that kept Gnosis from the 3 seas area, and of course all of the human sorcerors prefer Gnosis. view post


Water posted 10 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWater by unJon, Auditor

My impression was that it was some type of blue energy force. I kept imagining the Emperor in Star Wars but less lightning looking. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 10 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by unJon, Auditor

So this came up in the Bakker thread over on the ASOIAF board, and I never really thought about it, so I thought I'd kick it over here.

(Posted here in case TTT reading informs your opinions or responses).

In TDTCB Kellhus has a meeting with a non-man that turns out to be the ultra-famous Mekertrig.

He also gets attacked by Sranc on the way across the Scylvendi Plains and just happens to be laying close to death on the grave of Cnauir's father.

Two giant unexplained coincidences that have or will have a large impact on the plot? Anyone have any speculation? Outside forces at work? view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 11 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by unJon, Auditor

Hi, Xray!!! Nice to see some more ASOIAF people over here.

I think you are misremembering the connection between the Outside and the Inchoroi. The Inchoroi are waging war against the Outside in order to shut it out of Earwa so that they are not damned. The Outside represent the higher beings of Earwa (gods or God or whatever), and Kellhus might be some true prophet so that some Outside agency could take an interest in his actions.

H, I really like your idea that Kellhus and his father traversed the same path based on the Logos. However, I don't think it removes the coincidence about the Sranc attacking such that he collapses right where Cnauir would find him. I don't think the Logos can explain that. view post


TTT Map posted 11 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtTTT Map by unJon, Auditor

There are too many bad map books out there for this to ever be rare. I'd return it if it bothers you, and not return it if you don't care. view post


Any suggesations posted 11 March 2006 in Literature DiscussionAny suggesations by unJon, Auditor

"The Name of the Rose" - Umberto Eco
Excellent historical fiction with a lot of philosophical undertones: plato, aristotle, bacon. It's a classic and a very good read.

"A Game of Thrones" - George RR Martin
I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the other great fantasy series. It's not as 'deep thought' as PON, but there are a lot of amazing characters and it is epic in scope. Marting is great at creating gray characters (no black/white), and this series is enthralling.

"Dune" - Frank Herbert
The classic Sci-Fi book. More political philosophy than psychology but deals with ideas of omniscience.

"Crime and Punishment" - Fyodor Dostoevsky
It sounds like you would like anythng by Dostoevsky, but this is my favorite. A real study of human character.

"Hyperion" - Dan Simmons
The rest of the series falls off some, but this first book is amazing. It is Sci-Fi, but told in an interesting way (a couple of strangers on an important trip that they don't understand that take turns telling their backstory). Again it touches on a lot of philosophy.

"Manifold Time" - Stephen Baxter
Another Sci-Fi, but near future and very realistic on the Science. It deals with a few different paradoxes in very interesting ways.

If you are in to 'heavier stuff' (slow plots, not page turners, but very intersting and thought provoking) then I would recommend the following: "The Left Hand of Darkness" - Ursala K Le Guin; "Gravity's Rainbow" - Thomas Pynchon view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 12 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by unJon, Auditor

I don't really understand your long personal stories point, though it is an interesting coincidence.

There is something unsatisfying about Cnauir's meeting Kellhus (a fundamental moment in the book that changes everything that comes after) being sheer coincidence of the magnitude that it was. Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think its the number of coincidences that is important so much as their magnitude. view post


Inrau's sorcery posted 12 March 2006 in Author Q & AInrau's sorcery by unJon, Auditor

Andrew, I think what you say might, in theory, be true, but it does not seem to be the way that the Mandate teaches its students.

Quote: "TTT pg. 137 US hardback":2g1gf6a8
In Atyersus, teachers always started with what were called denotaries, small precursor Cants meant to gradually develop the intellectual flexibility of their students to the prodigious point where they could both comprehend and express arcane semantics. Denotaries, however, bruised students with the stain of sorcery as surely as any Cant....[/quote:2g1gf6a8]

So if Inrau could "express arcane semantics" like he seemed to be doing when he cast that BA Cant on the skin spy, then it stands to reason that he should have been Marked given the Mandates normal M.O. view post


Inrau's sorcery posted 12 March 2006 in Author Q & AInrau's sorcery by unJon, Auditor

Warrior Prophet wrote:

I was just under the impression that that was not Inrau's first time and im almost sure that it says in Darkness that he had cast some minor Cants.

I was under the opposite impression, hence my confusion at the apparent paradox. I'll take a skim through TDTCB now and see if I can find a quote. view post


Truth, Lies posted 12 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionTruth, Lies by unJon, Auditor

It's a good point Sokar.

Think on the maxim: You can tell the truth by accident but a lie is only told on purpose. view post


Chorae - Weapons of the Tekne? posted 13 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtChorae - Weapons of the Tekne? by unJon, Auditor

Both WP and anor are right. The Chorae are products of the Apropos not Tekne. The Inchoroi had the sorcerors make them, then used them against the non-men and also gave them to the people of Eanna. view post


Glowing Hands posted 13 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlowing Hands by unJon, Auditor

WP,

Moenghus would have know idea who among the Dunyain would be among the Few. There is no way to tell someone is on of the Few unless they cast sorcery. Remember that Akka could not tell if Kellhus was among the few until the test with the Doll. view post


Mekeritrig posted 13 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtMekeritrig by unJon, Auditor

*agrees with WP* view post


Glowing Hands posted 13 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlowing Hands by unJon, Auditor

I don't think there is any Onta to see in Ishual as no sorcery has been performed there in millenia. I find it very unlikely that Kellhus or Moenghus have any idea of how many/which Dunyain are among the Few. view post


Glowing Hands posted 14 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlowing Hands by unJon, Auditor

WP, your second point good be right, I don't know. it depends if you have to be among the Few to receive a Cant of calling. I don't think we know the answer.

I don't have a site about the Mark (yes I was using Onta incorrectly) fading over time, but that is my impression. Also using my primitive version of the Logos, I conclude that the Dunyain have never seen the mark in Ishual or they would (using their superior Logos) deduce the existence of sorcery. Note how quick Kellhus deduces sorcery once he sees it, and how the Dunyain are sure it does not exist. view post


They make us love??? posted 14 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThey make us love??? by unJon, Auditor

I thought it was in reference to Akka at the end of TTT. Doesn't he lament that the gods make him love?

Maybe the phrase is used multiple times in the series and I didn't pick it up. view post


Skin-Spies have Souls posted 14 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSkin-Spies have Souls by unJon, Auditor

I agree with most of what EE says except the possessing the skin spy. I always thought that the guy that keeps seducing Esmi is just an illusion and the Synthese is really all there is casting some Cant and ejaculating the black semen. view post


Skin-Spies have Souls posted 15 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSkin-Spies have Souls by unJon, Auditor

I'm basing it on the black semen. The "man" that seduces Esmi ejaculates black. So does Aurax at the end of TWP. Esmi sleeps with a skin-spy Sacellus and doesn't mention black semen and I think she would notice.

So my conclusion is that the "man" is really an illusion and its the little bird Synthese spitting black semen on her. view post


Paper Back posted 15 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtPaper Back by unJon, Auditor

Hey, Lyth, I think that the Trade Paperback for TWP was out about 8 mo. after the hardback (so September). But I might be misremembering. I haven't seen any mass market paperbacks but I hear they have those in Canada. If you are just waiting for the money, then you might check Amazon. Sometimes they have good deals on Used hardbacks. view post


Spoilerful question about the trilogy's end posted 15 March 2006 in Author Q & ASpoilerful question about the trilogy's end by unJon, Auditor

Stormchaser,

Scott originally planned to write a trilogy in which PON would be the first book. He has referred to it as "his Hobbit." Well PON grew into a trilogy in his own right and Scott now envisions that the second two original books will become dualogies (though it wouldn't shock me if they both turned into trilogies).

So yes, he planned on writing more in this world, from the beginning, and that is why I think that there are so many unanswered questions. view post


Skin-Spies have Souls posted 15 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSkin-Spies have Souls by unJon, Auditor

I agree. If Aurang "possessed" a skin spy and had sex with Esmi, then the semen would not be black. Possession does not change the semen color. Which is why in TDTCB, and later in TWP when Esmi has sex with a dude that spits black semen, I think it is Aurang as a Synthese, screwing her and the guy that Esmi sees is an illusion.

Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying, WP? I'm not sure how to make my point more clear. view post


Skin-Spies have Souls posted 15 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSkin-Spies have Souls by unJon, Auditor

Alright, I just want to make sure that we are talking about the same thing now so I'll try to spell out the two theories.

Event: In TDTCB and WP, Esmi has sex with a "man" that turns out to be something else and ejaculates black semen.

Theory 1 (mine): the "man" is actually an illusion. Aurang uses a glamour to make Esmi see a man, but it is actually the Synthese itself (black bird with a little human head) that is present in the room with Esmi and ejaculates black semen.

Theory 2 (others): the "man" is actually some creation of the Tekne (maybe a skin spy, maybe some creation we haven't seen before), that Aurang possesses to have sex with Esmi.

Do I have the theories correct?

If so let me just restate what I see as the problems with 2. Basically, if it's a skin-spy it shouldn't be black semen. The only creature that we have seen ejaculate black is Aurax at the end of TWPb. If its some other creation of the Tekne, what is it? Certainly nothing we have heard of before. The Tekne creature that could pass for a man is a skin-spy. Are you saying that you think that there are other "man" creatures out there in addition to the skin-spies? view post


Nuclear Power posted 15 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionNuclear Power by unJon, Auditor

Nuclear power is the future of this world, no matter what people think of it. It's a simple matter of oil running out and nuclear being the only available cost-effective solution. Econ 101. view post


Skin-Spies have Souls posted 15 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSkin-Spies have Souls by unJon, Auditor

EoC, I think a glamour is just Scott's word for the magic of illusion. IIRC, Akka warns Kellhus in TTT that it's one of the magics that an Inchoroi can do while in a Synthese. I am willing to say that an illusion can also make Esmi feel the pleasure. The Synthese seems to be able to spark arousal in its skin-spies and Aurang sparks arousal/desire in the woman it rapes at the end of TWP.

So now that I have the two options down correctly, I'm going to post them in Q&A to see if Scott will answer.

Yes EoC this thread originally dealt with a different topic, it's interesting how it evolved (devolved?). view post


ignorance or enlightenment ? posted 15 March 2006 in Philosophy Discussionignorance or enlightenment ? by unJon, Auditor

Ahh, the old JS Mill question. First I would submit that your choices are not exhaustive. That said I suppose that a wise fool is better than a content ignoramus. Why? I don't know, I'm a martyr at heart I guess. view post


Ciphrang, altogether confusing posted 16 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCiphrang, altogether confusing by unJon, Auditor

Regarding Ciphrang and Chorae. I don't think its clear if the Chorae actually 'kill' the Chiphrand or just undo the sorcery that called them into the world, so banishing them to the Outside until the Daimos calls them again. view post


Skin-Spies have Souls posted 16 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSkin-Spies have Souls by unJon, Auditor

<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

It kind of kills a debate in mid-stride when the Author comes down on one side in the middle.

Skin-spies (and all Tekne creatures in general) do not have souls, although in rare instances they seem to 'acquire' one. view post


Ciphrang, altogether confusing posted 17 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCiphrang, altogether confusing by unJon, Auditor

WP, water boils faster when you don't watch it. Find another series to read, I suggest. view post


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