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posts by rycanada Peralogue | joined 27 Jan 2006 | 56


posted 27 Jan 2006, 16:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus & Moenghus? by rycanada, Peralogue

Sorry, that should have read unite the "world", not rold, which isn't even a word. Anyway, I wasn't overjoyed by the "reveal"-style ending, but I know the point of the discussion. Kellhus has a categorical split from the thought of the Dunyain - he IS the Warrior-prophet, and he has somehow transcended his humanity (even the sort of super-humanity of the Dunyain). view post


posted 27 Jan 2006, 22:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

The Inchoroi came to Earwa, realized the existence of, and source of magic. But they don't approach it like a religion - to them, the Outside is more like an alternate dimension. They observed mankind (or at first, Nonmenkind) and realized that they were windows to the outside, just as Achamian describes with his light trick at Xinemus' camp. Because men and nonmen are windows to the Outside, they are able to do magic - and susceptible to damnation (i.e. they have souls that will have a fate in the Outside after their deaths). Unfortunately for the Inchoroi, upon reaching Earwa they realized that they themselves (or at least, a few of them) were also "windows to the Outside." Thus, they were also susceptible to "damnation" But the Inchoroi have a very materialist approach to everything - thus, rather than seeing transcendence in contact with the Outside, they see it as a kind of parallel dimension. Rather than try to redeem themselves, they would prefer to cut this dimension off from that one, to avoid the dangers of beings they cannot hope to dominate, and fates they cannot hope to alter. To a certain extent, they treat emanations of the Outside like we would treat radiation; occasionally something to be used, but mostly a phenomenon to be controlled and eliminated. Their natures are so corrupt that they cannot approach the universe with a real grasp of spiritual philosophy. view post


posted 28 Jan 2006, 01:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtExplanation for Achamian's survival?? by rycanada, Peralogue

I'm ... just not sure. The Ciphrang was bleeding just before Achamian fell... I just don't know if Iyokus "let him go" or if the Ciphrang was too wounded, or just got hit by some third party unseen. I wouldn't be surprised if this had to do with "Do you want to hear a secret?" said by the Old Name to the child picking up the remains of a shattered sorcerer on the battlefield. view post


posted 28 Jan 2006, 04:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

Oh, just to add one more thing - I think the line of reasoning of the Inchoroi that I charted above is also the reason the Dunyain would side with the Consult eventually, in trying to close the world - the influence of the Outside would just be a difficult, unpredictable variable that should be eliminated. Hence Kellhus' actions are on some level a renunciation of the amorality of the Dunyain, although what Kellhus' idea of morality is will be very interesting to see. view post


posted 28 Jan 2006, 04:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtExplanation for Achamian's survival?? by rycanada, Peralogue

One thing: I'd be highly upset if the shattered salted sorcerer being picked up by the child was Achamian, and the other was somehow a Consult spy with a soul. That would just suck (and I don't think it would be fair play, since Achamian is still tormented by dreams). view post


posted 28 Jan 2006, 04:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus & Moenghus? by rycanada, Peralogue

The Dunyain will side with the Consult, I'm practically certain of it. Otherwise it just won't be a good enough story. Oh, and when the Consult talk about the Architect (I believe they at one point refer to him as human) doesn't that character seem awfully Dunyain-like? view post


posted 28 Jan 2006, 05:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

I think the Ciphrang might not be much help against the No-god, either. I just can't see them giving the Three Seas a big leg-up for that. view post


posted 29 Jan 2006, 19:01 in Author Q & AJust finished TTT by rycanada, Peralogue

Absolutely fantastic work. Put me in the camp of "Conphas got what was coming to him." Please, oh please, oh please, don't eat, don't sleep, just ... keep writing more books. I'm dying to see what you would produce from a single narrator's perspective, although I know I may have to wait a long time. That would probably be the best fantasy novel ever, like: "Yeah, when we talk about fantasy we have to [i:28mn831t]consider[/i:28mn831t] Tolkien, but really, if you're going to read the important stuff in fantasy, you should read R. Scott Bakker." view post


posted 30 Jan 2006, 20:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThousand fold thought ultimately flawed? by rycanada, Peralogue

I think his image of the no-god was a true vision. I don't think he's mad. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 04:02 in Author Q & AAbout TTT - Where can I get one? by rycanada, Peralogue

I've got TWP and TTT in trade paperback, but I only have this falling-apart mass-market paperback copy of TDTCB. Anyone know where I can get the trade paperback? view post


Bakker's Theory of History? posted 01 Feb 2006, 04:02 in Author Q & ABakker's Theory of History? by rycanada, Peralogue

Hello... I love your books. You are the greatest! Don't sleep! Stay up and write more books! Um... ahem... sorry. Anyway, I was wondering if you had a deliberate theory of history and the evolution of cultures involved in the backstory creation for Earwa. From Seswatha's memories, and from Kellhus, Moenghus, and Conphas, it seems very great-man-theory-of-history, but I wondered if you had something more elaborate (since the world's history and cultures appear to be so complex). view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 04:02 in Writing TipsNarative Styles by rycanada, Peralogue

It works. Thousands of American authors use it. I personally prefer a more tied-to-character kind of narrative... (hmm... could I be referring to R. Scott Bakker's?) but it's nothing to feel you have to break yourself of - and it certainly shouldn't stop or slow your writing. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 04:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

To clarify, when I described the Inchoroi are "materialist" I don't mean that they don't acknowledge the existence of the Outside, nor that they "caught religion". Upon reaching Earwa, the Inchoroi recognized the influence of the Outside, but expressly didn't "catch religion" - they approach even the Outside in a materialist way (as a source of the various sorcerous phenomena, and a dwelling place of powerful entities). For mankind, however, the Outside appears to be something more; as well as being the font from which the gods spring, Achamian's candle illustration seems to indicate a kind of spiritual transcendence. I think this shows that there aren't "multiple worldviews" competing here (at least not with regard to the facts of existence). The influence of the Outside is plainly essential to the story of Earwa. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 04:02 in Philosophy DiscussionWhat is Philosophy? by rycanada, Peralogue

The most general possible discipline of critical enquiry. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 06:02 in Author Q & AAbout TTT - Where can I get one? by rycanada, Peralogue

No luck even on E-bay! I am truly cursed for my idiocy. Once I saw a second hand copy going for seven dollars... and I thought myself too poor to buy it. I guess I'll have to go to plan B: Sacrificing cows to Penguin Canada for a reprint. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 06:02 in Writing TipsLanguage by rycanada, Peralogue

I've had a lot of luck just sitting down and brainstorming about a hundred words and names in a language, and then working back from that to a set of phonetics. Basically, it lets me start with the feel of the story and work backwards. For a metopotamian-influenced idea I've come up with I had characters named Akigatei, Muntuurei, Uramu, Namti, Deashi, Gulguud, Abainda, Ishalena, Kem, and so forth, and from those (and a bunch more) I basically made a chart of "syllables" like this: Initial Sound | Vowel Sound | Coda A k i g a t ei M u n uu r You start to get repeats, but make the list and you've got a good idea of how your language would "sound" - and that's about all that I think can be really delivered to the reader anyway. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 16:02 in Philosophy DiscussionWhat philosopher suits you most? by rycanada, Peralogue

Machiavelli as a modern gamer: "3\/1|_ FTW!" view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 17:02 in Author Q & AAbout TTT - Where can I get one? by rycanada, Peralogue

Yeah, but I really want the TP... I can get the HC from lots of places... I think I might be able to score one in some Toronto used bookstores. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 17:02 in Writing TipsGreat News - and please post what work you are all doing. by rycanada, Peralogue

I'm working on something for a few years that's been variously called Skyborn, Legends of the Last Age, and several other titles... although it's pretty fragmented. The most solid piece of more than 10 pages in length is When All Was Sky, a mesopotamian-influenced creation myth which has shaped up quite nicely. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 22:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

I think that the Inchoroi discovered the existence of the Outside (and the fate of their souls, which they seek to avoid) on Earwa because of sorcery. Without such obvious proof of the Outside influencing the world, they could have denied the existence of damnation - or even the soul - but once you add sorcery into the mix, it's undeniable. Their reaction? To avoid pain, work to seal off the Outside. view post


posted 01 Feb 2006, 22:02 in Author Q & ARPG? by rycanada, Peralogue

Also, there's a bit of a money difference... I think for the development of a successful MMORPG companies typically budget in the realm of tens of millions of dollars. If you can throw down $500,000 to develop a tabletop RPG, you're on your way to making a [i:1ssyl8ox]damn[/i:1ssyl8ox] fine game. view post


posted 02 Feb 2006, 04:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

Sorcery had to come from somewhere. I think explaining the supernatural as a window to the metaphysical works very well. But more importantly, I think there IS a good explanation for what's going on. This might not be right (i.e. what R. Scott Bakker ultimately reveals) but it's at least a coherent case: The Outside can be investigated scientifically (i.e. with hypothesis confirmation / contradiction), and it appears what Achamian described as the "light of the Outside" enters into the real world by "peeking through" human beings (i.e. the soul). So it seems to make sense that it doesn't "peek through" in the void of space - only on worlds (hence world-specific influence of the Outside). Now, the Inchoroi are aware of the influence of the Outside, the existence of the soul (at least among the highest-order Inchoroi), and they're highly concerned with avoiding pain and gaining pleasure (i.e. they want to avoid damnation but have no interest in redeeming themselves). So I think we can conclude that they'd be very aggressively investigating the nature of the interaction of the Outside and Earwa. Thus, I think it's appropriate to assume that their actions are at least well-grounded in an understanding of that interaction (they wouldn't hold back from gaining immediate pleasure unless they believed they had a good reason). From the way the situation has been described, the Outside's influence on Earwa seems much like liquid under pressure coming through a membrane: If there are enough holes for water to get through, then the water flows, but there are only very few, the membrane holds and nothing comes through. In the case of the Outside and Earwa, this would mean the Outside would be shut off (no flow between it and Earwa), saving the Inchoroi from damnation. view post


posted 02 Feb 2006, 16:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

I agree - Aurax and Aurang have souls. But as I said, I don't think it takes "just one hole". If it did, the Inchoroi's position would be incoherent. I think there's got to be a critical mass (see my membrane analogy). But if you'd rather be disappointed... :) view post


posted 02 Feb 2006, 17:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

[quote="Grallon":2tvevrvm]And that is where the bone of contention lies. It *is* incoherent to postulate the existence of metaphysical superbeings, as evidenced by their influence through the agency of sentient underbeings, while at the same time making said influence, [b:2tvevrvm]ergo said deties' very existence[/b:2tvevrvm], contingent on an arbitrary number of souls. G.[/quote:2tvevrvm] Hamana... wha? I don't see how the deities' existence is brought into question by the contingency of their influence. But hey, as I said, you seem determined to be dissatisfied, but as long as you're planning on buying more of R. Scott Bakker's books (and thereby encouraging the publication of the Aspect-Emperor) I'm happy. view post


posted 03 Feb 2006, 00:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

Grallon, I don't think calling Nauticus a fanboi is going to help your argue the point (i.e. you'll convince fewer people, not more, by doing so). I can understand why you don't like the pacing, or what happened to Conphas, but regardless of that, if there's a convincing case for the [i:2qc7drqt]incoherency[/i:2qc7drqt] of the given explanation of TTT's magical/ metaphysical/ spiritual content, I'm happy to hear it. view post


posted 03 Feb 2006, 03:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

Well, I think it's pretty clear that I've read your posts, given I've already responded to the points you made. You've called it incoherent. I've explained one plausible scenario where it is coherent. You haven't made any rejoinders. Feel free to stick with your view, but I can't figure out why you'd expect anyone else to agree. view post


posted 04 Feb 2006, 06:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

Thanks entropic, that's exactly my point (and it's that further point you're describing which I felt has not met with a rejoinder). Grallon, I did read your post quite carefully, and that's why I made the point about the contingency of the gods' [i:6dlb5g3y]influence [/i:6dlb5g3y]not being a mark against their [i:6dlb5g3y]existence[/i:6dlb5g3y]. view post


posted 04 Feb 2006, 06:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtGlad to see we have this forum by rycanada, Peralogue

[quote="Grallon":26aj4021]Certes, but there's no reason to shy away from an argument simply because the debate gets slightly virile.G.[/quote:26aj4021] Well... it can be a sign that arguing is pointless. i.e. if neither party is capable of being convinced, and it spirals deeper into negativity, then "shying away" (which I think is a mischaracterization of agreeing to disagree) is the more productive option. Regardless, I think we can pull back from it if there are more points to be made. view post


posted 06 Feb 2006, 17:02 in Off-Topic DiscussionStarring "Insert Actor Here" as Kelhuss! by rycanada, Peralogue

Christopher Walken as Kellhus - they'd have to do his makeup well to soften his features a bit, but he's got a unique rhythm to his speech and great physical acting that I think would really match Kellhus' hard-to-capture otherness. view post


posted 07 Feb 2006, 12:02 in Literature DiscussionCloud Atlas by rycanada, Peralogue

Seconded. view post


posted 07 Feb 2006, 16:02 in Author Q & ABashrag by rycanada, Peralogue

I had thought they were some kind of living dead (put together from corpses), but I think the srancs-combined idea is probably a better bet. view post


posted 11 Feb 2006, 06:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtPixellated Map?!? by rycanada, Peralogue

That's not right... my copy is fine. view post


posted 13 Feb 2006, 13:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Heron Spear by rycanada, Peralogue

It's some kind of Inchoroi energy weapon; it may have been able to cut through the strongest of the nonmen's magical defenses. I think it was described as killing with a beam of searing light. Remember that the Inchoroi developed the Aporos (construction of Chorae / Tears of God) around the same period. view post


posted 13 Feb 2006, 13:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestions about Iyokus by rycanada, Peralogue

I think he became the Grandmaster just because he was next in line & he could summon a Ciphrang because he knows some elaborate cants to do so. Achamian can take a Ciphrang, but not right after smoking through so many imperials. view post


The Architect = Shaeonanra / Shauriatas posted 15 Feb 2006, 05:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Architect = Shaeonanra / Shauriatas by rycanada, Peralogue

Just saw that and thought it lined up really well. Anyone else agree / disagree? view post


posted 15 Feb 2006, 05:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNostalgia: Fav part of the trilogy? by rycanada, Peralogue

I'd have to say the images of the No-god, first in Seswatha's dream and Kellhus' image of the no-god as he hung under Umiaki view post


posted 16 Feb 2006, 03:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtTDTCB Prolouge by rycanada, Peralogue

Holy crap. Great catch. view post


posted 17 Feb 2006, 05:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Dream that went wrong by rycanada, Peralogue

I think that Akka and Seswatha are now one essentially one person, although that person may not realize it yet. I think the fact that Akka has a new descriptor "The Wizard" like Seswatha did shows this status. As for his dream, I think it's how Seswatha himself would dream (rather than how Akka would dream, which would be how Seswatha would remember) - real life events mixed up and changed by his anxieties. view post


posted 17 Feb 2006, 05:02 in Author Q & ASome questions about the moon,witches and the Inchoroi. by rycanada, Peralogue

Yeah, consensus was Nail of Heaven = Pole Star (like the North Star) view post


posted 19 Feb 2006, 01:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Dream that went wrong by rycanada, Peralogue

Oh, to clarify, when I said in my previous post that I thought they were the same person, I really mean the remnant of Seswatha in Achamian, not "all of Seswatha" More like, you can't make distinctions between 1. The bit of Seswatha that is influential enough to prevent the transmission of the gnosis and Achamian himself. OR 2. Memories belonging to Seswatha versus Memories belonging to Achamian (although I don't think Achamian is having an identity crisis... yet...) view post


Wikipedia entry posted 19 Feb 2006, 01:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWikipedia entry by rycanada, Peralogue

Hi everybody; I've been trying to polish up the Prince of Nothing entry on Wikipedia. Can you guys suggest things I could write in sub-headings titled "Imagery", "Style", and "Philosophy in the Prince of Nothing"? Either posting it here or adding it yourself would be fantastic. view post


posted 19 Feb 2006, 08:02 in Author Q & AWoe comes... by rycanada, Peralogue

Well, we know that the skin-spies infiltrated Atyersus, so they'd know that Achamian was a member (given the fact there are < 200 mandati). I think it wasn't so much the skin-spy recognizing Seswatha in Achamian, so much as the skin-spy knowing enough to recognize that Achamian was Mandati, and that Mandati were the enemy because they were implanted with Seswatha's spirit in some way. view post


Trying to understand a previous statement posted 21 Feb 2006, 20:02 in Philosophy DiscussionTrying to understand a previous statement by rycanada, Peralogue

I think in an interview, R. Scott Bakker said: Regarding God. It's not so much that God makes things like purpose and morality possible, rather it's that he possesses the same general structure of these things, a structure (which philosophers call 'intentional') I get the general drift of this, but I'm also not sure what it really means to be "intentional" in the sense philosophers use it. view post


posted 22 Feb 2006, 02:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhat should we have anticipated? by rycanada, Peralogue

On the Maithanet question: I think Maithanet waited to "make his move" against the Consult because he knows that, unlike Kellhus, he isn't strong enough to repel a concerted Consult assassination attempt. So he had to wait until he was almost en-route to Kellhus in order to purge Sumna, and made sure to purge any skin-spies he encountered en route (so as not to expose himself or Kellhus to danger). view post


posted 22 Feb 2006, 03:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhat should we have anticipated? by rycanada, Peralogue

Thus, Maithanet was essentially using the Consult to help the holy war (which they certainly did). view post


posted 22 Feb 2006, 04:02 in Philosophy DiscussionTrying to understand a previous statement by rycanada, Peralogue

Oh, well, in that case I do basically understand the structure of "intentional" - I just don't understand how this is God's structure. view post


posted 22 Feb 2006, 07:02 in Author Q &amp; AMass-Market Paperback by rycanada, Peralogue

I'd KILL for the trade paperback of TDTCB, original Canadian edition. The mass-market paperback I got smelled like fish, the pages were flimsy and thin, and the ink rubbed somewhat across the pages. I'm all for the TPs. view post


Well, at least I'm narrowing down what I don't understand posted 22 Feb 2006, 15:02 in Philosophy DiscussionTrying to understand a previous statement by rycanada, Peralogue

OK, reading this article, now I don't understand how the property of being intentional (i.e. about something) applies to God the way it clearly applies to "good". view post


posted 22 Feb 2006, 20:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhat should we have anticipated? by rycanada, Peralogue

What e_e said. I don't believe that even the skin-spy with a soul is a sorcerous artifact. I think it is an artifact of the Tekne (essentially perverse bio-engineering) which achived self-awareness (having a soul). Sorcery (qua, window to the outside) wasn't part of the initial equation, it was the result of a very unique individual. When Maithanet mentions that htey have thankfully been unable to reproduce this situation, he's saying that the Consult doesn't know how to trigger / elevate the skin spies to consciousness. view post


posted 22 Feb 2006, 20:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus &amp; Moenghus? by rycanada, Peralogue

I agree. This is exactly what I think Kellhus is doing. He has to kill Moenghus to remove both variables and opposition. He removes variables because he is Dunyain - he removes opposition because after his circumfiction, he is non-neutral with regards to human life. He is committed to either the notion of saving humanity, doing the God's will, or both. (Although interestingly, I think Kellhus' religious views are closer to Fanimry than Inrithism). view post


posted 22 Feb 2006, 20:02 in Author Q &amp; AMass-Market Paperback by rycanada, Peralogue

Kingmanor, if you have the grey / text of Ajencis version of the trade paperback, I'll trade you in a second. I have two copies of the Canadian mass-market paperback (neither is pristine, the second one is pretty standard used bookstore condition). view post


posted 25 Feb 2006, 03:02 in Philosophy DiscussionTrying to understand a previous statement by rycanada, Peralogue

A little. Damn my excessively clear philosophy professors - the faculty at my university were obsessed with direct, clear argumentation, to the point where they were often willing to just denigrate and ignore most of the less easily decipherable stuff (can you believe I actually graduated top of my class as a philosophy major and I'm in this bind?) view post


posted 25 Feb 2006, 03:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestions regarding Conphas by rycanada, Peralogue

As Andrew said, "THere is a lot of happenstance and unpredicted events that are responsible for world history." but then again, when a Dunyain Gnostic sorcerer is around... they get a lot less unpredictable. Things start to fall into place - like the convenient death of the Aspect-Emperor. view post


posted 08 Mar 2006, 01:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSol / Hertata by rycanada, Peralogue

I thought it was just to tell us that Maithanet was leaving, and to reconnect us to where we started (especially given Esmenet's development) view post


Re: ignorance or enlightenment ? posted 24 Aug 2006, 23:08 in Philosophy Discussionignorance or enlightenment ? by rycanada, Peralogue

[quote="Edge of Certainty":33tgbgpv]Would you rather: --be completely content with being completely ignorant of the world and it's sufferings and the frailty of men? or --be constantly conscious of these things and always in despair? and why? NO HAPPY MEDIUMS PLEASE![/quote:33tgbgpv] To be effective in doing good, even towards oneself, one needs to have clarity about what suffering and happiness are, how happiness and suffering are created in the world, and what forces are now in play that are creating happiness and suffering. The corollary of this is that those who remain willfully ignorant of suffering are likely to sometimes stumble and create suffering even when they seek to create happiness. An example of this might be a person voting in a federal election based solely on the tax incentives offered in their own district; ignoring the impact of your government in the international realm. The person may be genuinely seeking happiness - or to relieve the suffering of the friends and family they know. But if this leads to a needlessly warlike nation, then suffering has been created unintentionally, and that suffering often reflects hardship and suffering back onto the originators (regardless of their good aims). That's what eastern philosophers would call Karma. Now if Karma is effective, then suffering will be fully returned to its creator. But it's possible that Karma is not effective; that someone can do harm but not have it returned upon themselves, or receive the suffering only in part. That said, I'm certain that it would be better, for example, to be wise, just, and compassionate, than unwise, unjust, and indifferent. The latter is a kind of blithe sadism, but - and perhaps just as importantly - it's as close to spiritual self-mutilation as we can get while granting that the nature of the soul may be completely unknowable (i.e., it might not even exist!) Back to the point: When we do choose to act (to better ourselves or for the betterment of others), our muddied perceptions can lead us to create suffering even if our intentions are good. Furthermore, even if a kind of happiness could be achieved in a state of willful ignorance / injustice, we couldn't talk about it being "better" because of the suffering it caused. Through this we can see that [b:33tgbgpv]a compassionate, wise, or just person must seek a clear view, in order to make their compassionate, wise, or just actions effective[/b:33tgbgpv]. view post


posted 25 Aug 2006, 10:08 in Philosophy Discussionignorance or enlightenment ? by rycanada, Peralogue

If what goes around comes around, and you're with me on how willful ignorance can become willful injustice, then the happily ignorant scenario dissolves entirely. It's not just a false dilemma (i.e. not exhausive of our options) - one of the options doesn't really exist. view post


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