Three Seas Forum

the archives

dusted off in read-only

  •  

shockwave Candidate | joined 05 November 2005 | 18 posts


The Destruction of the Dunyain posted 05 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Destruction of the Dunyain by shockwave, Candidate

The dunyain that received the dream could feel as if they had sorcery themselves. Moenghus contacting them through their own dreams, asking for his son to be sent, probably equals the possession of sorcery to them. Which they do not want; they strive for purity. It would therefor be in the interest of the 'breeding-program' and the dunyain themself, to remove themselves from the group.
This radical 'cure' is only vial because this could mean inpurity for the dunyain. They are faced with what is in their eyes, an incredible taint. Hence they remove it.
But facing magic when under attack from an opponent or when approached by the other various factions in the Three Seas that posses magic would not demand the same response. The magic is not present in them, but in the other. I think they will react and adopt to the situation similarly though not exactly like, Kellhus.
In short: they need not kill themselves to remove this taint.

They need to kill others. Alot of them, but if they will, who can tell. view post


The Inchoroi and the Sranc posted 07 November 2005 in Author Q & AThe Inchoroi and the Sranc by shockwave, Candidate

What appendices is everyone talking about? They are not in my editions of the books (except the short one, without anything on Non-men etc) Its the same as the one on the pon site, so i wonder how i could get a look at the other appendice that there is out there.. view post


The Inchoroi and the Sranc posted 08 November 2005 in Author Q & AThe Inchoroi and the Sranc by shockwave, Candidate

Oh ok, tnx Mr.Bakker.
But then that would be the copy that White Lord read in advance, because the book isnt officially published yet, right?
Id slap myself silly if it do is already published and i dont have it yet <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


Like father like son? posted 10 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtLike father like son? by shockwave, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Echoex&quot;:1t7p5pgm
It also leads one to wonder if the Sranc evolved to protect themselves from the Dunyain. If I recall, they're described as having rather featureless faces. This would prohibit the Dunyain from having that advantage over them.
.Ex.[/quote:1t7p5pgm]

I dont think the Sranc are concerned with that, since they are only the grunts/foots-soldiers. Why would they need to hide the emotions on their face if the only one(s) they know is: bloodthirst/fear/anger, without regard for its effect on their prey. So much unlike humans.
Remember that in TDTCB they attack him without prejudice, without questioning, without fear or regard. Except for his skill i assume, after the first 5 have fallen to his sword.
In general i think that Sranc are 'recognizable' enough for any man not to confuse them with anyone or anything they know.

Moenghus has been in the 'real' world for 30 years. His presence and his potential/power cant have gone unnoticed.
Kellhus has been there for what, 2 years max now? Considering how Kelhuss can still easily sort the consult skin spies from the 'normal people' suggests that either:
1) the skin spies are relatively new (which doesnt support shasheoka being a skin spy..)
2) if the skin-spies arent new, that the consult did not care (!!) to leave them open to recognition.

I dont understand how either of these square, so im missing a possibility.. who helps me out here?
Shasheoka was assasinated 10 years ago. So if he was a skin-spy, they were already known 10 years ago. Why else would Mallahet/Moenghus assasinate him? (the most accepted theory on this board). Yet there have been no more assassinations (that we know of, besides the Mandate's spies and the Emperors spies being off'd one by one) after that. If Eleazeras was found to be a skin spy, why was noone found for 10 years after that? It doesnt make sense if you consider Moenghus's ability and potential power.
Cant there be another reason for this assassination? Shasheoka and Eleazeras were as close 'as ainoni men are'. What does this mean? Maybe they were lovers and they didnt leave each others side at all and that would make it hard to replace either with a skin-spý. More so even if it had to be a sorcerer skin-spy.
I think there is more to this, another reason we are missing. view post


Serious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... posted 10 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSerious TTT thoughts, predictions, ideas... by shockwave, Candidate

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:ed5roxup
Quote: &quot;Spamoram&quot;:ed5roxup
.................


Maithanet has the innate ability of the Few (potential to become a sorcerer). Thus he can observe those who are stained by use of sorcery.

...........[/quote:ed5roxup]

I am not so sure that Maithanet is a sorceror. As a skin spy he could have recognized a Mandate Sorceror. He could also have been fed the intelligence from Sarcellus.[/quote:ed5roxup]

Fed the intelligence from Sarcellus yes.. or the Synthese, there's a scary thought. Yet how how would he recognize him?
Sarcellus:Oh he's an average-sized, medium-height, priest-looking kinda fellow with a smacked lip. Or not.
I just dont think thats probable. Maithanet knew somehow that Akka was a sorcerer.
1) either he is a skin-spy and he got the image mentally from Sarcellus or didnt need to cuz all consult spies can see Chigra (right? or just the synthese?)
2) or he is one of the few as Spamoram suggested and recognized Akka for what he is, a sorcerer, yet Akka didnt recognize him because he hasnt uttered a cant or enough cants to be 'stained'.

I clearly recall Akka saying to himself at the end of that chapter that Maithanet recognized him, but 'only the Few can see the Few'.
Unless there is some secret that we havent been told about yet, i think this clearly says that Maithanet is one of the Few. view post


What about akka and esme. posted 10 November 2005 in The Warrior ProphetWhat about akka and esme. by shockwave, Candidate

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:gfsb7115
Quote: &quot;Jesh&quot;:gfsb7115
I was so sad that akka and esme didn’t get together again at the end of the book, I’m such a sucker for happy endings and while this isn’t the end of the story, I would have been so happy if akka and esme would have ended up together again. But mr. bakker still has a book to make it alright, and he better or else… <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->[/quote:gfsb7115]

Maybe I'm not a romantic, but as I have said before, had Kellhus not taken Esmenet as a lover (as a wife in fact) she would be dead and I can shed no tears for Achamian, he is 40 odd years old not 14 and this cannot be the 1st time someone has preferred another man to him. And has Achamian really been dumped? Kellhus and Esmenet reasonably thought him dead. For all Kellhus' manipulation and Machiavellian cunning, I thought his seduction of Esmenet one of his few defensible acts.[/quote:gfsb7115]

Though i see your logic and the probability of it, i reject it. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Yes, Kellhus' 'taking' of Esmenet was her only salvation. And also her own machinination despite Kellhus's undoubted acceleration and partaking of it.
But i do not agree you cannot or should not shed tears for Akka. Time and time again they have lost and found each other in numerous ways. Always was Esmenet his foundation and only real lasting love (besides Inrau but we all know what became of him and that was a different kind of love).
This is not simply her preferring another man to him, which he could have accepted, he knows there are greater men out there than him. But the betrayal Esmi has commited is that of a true love.
Do you realize that time after time she has longer for him and wished for him, yet dared not? And then when he gives himself, he sets her free, he lets her dare. She accepts, and then at the threshold of the first true test, lets him go. She is true to herself, the whore, yet not true to who she made us think she was. Maybe now she is more who she wants to be; still tied to the person who is at the center of the world. How Akka made her feel before when he visited her in Sumna. But noone has brought that argument and i refuse to accept that without a really good context.

Besides, they didnt think him 'reasonably dead'. Yes they had very probably cause. They had no reason to think he was alive, but no factual news that he was dead either. Throughout the books Esmi is always portrayed as someone who would look for Akka till she saw his body. She knows she is his only love. Why not at least grant him that, is she really that much under Kellhus's spell? Yes i think so. Otherwise she would have felt sorry and shown her love for him.
I agree with you that what they did was in their best interest and a logical, maybe even necesarry step in Esmi's evolving character. But once he was back, things should have changed. Yet it is irrecovably true to the books that she remains with Kellhus, yet another 'strong' character falling for his words and actions.
But in my opinion she should have confessed her 'sins' to Akka, who would have understood, the poor fool, and then profused her 'love' for him despite her devotion to Kellhus still.
I regret that i cannot see it differently than that she is under Kellhus's spell. Yes she consequently did something natural and necesarry for her survival.. but how necesarry is it for her survival now to bed Kellhus and throw away Akka at his return (did she even thank Xin?) when he needs her the most?
Effectively she is turning Akka into the person he needs to be for the 2nd Apocalypse, but way to early in my opinion.

edit: As for defensible acts i do not think that Kellhus should be excused. Yet he cannot be blamed either. He has done everything right so far. He has gotten them this far and united the Men of the Tusk more than they were before, depite their various inherent differences.
Yet he does not need to bed Esmi, nor her child to keep her devotion.
Tho i am reluctant to accept that he knows rejecting Esmi now would probably be beyond her understanding. And thus i undo my whole argument. It is necesarry for him to 'have' Esmi as his untill he finds a better whore. So to speak.

Pun intended. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


What about akka and esme. posted 10 November 2005 in The Warrior ProphetWhat about akka and esme. by shockwave, Candidate

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:5a02hq6f
This of course is your privilege.
...
Again this is your privilege, not to cry for him is mine.[/quote:5a02hq6f]
True, point taken <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

And yet it was Esmenet who begged Achamian not to go to the library. Who abandoned whom (especially with Esme's knowledge that Serwe has seduced him)? And Esmenet had the whore's knowledge that men never stayed.

I had forgotten Serwe's seduction.. that kinda throws a monkey wrench in my whole programm doesnt it?
But i dont think that its a valid point that he abandonded her, he is still a Mandate schoolman and going to the library wasnt supposed to take long nor intended as leaving her.
I kinda thought that Esmi knew that Akka wouldnt have 'left' her. At least not in a profound way (here i mean that getting seduced while hammered, and totally committing to someone else and having their baby is different, the latter is more profound). She has left him intellectually as well, which is inevitable ofcourse with Kellhus, but it must sting nonetheless, especially now that he is back.
Well Kellhus is undoubtedly younger and fitter than Achamian, and no doubt better in bed. I know whom I'd prefer. As for the "true love" between Achamian and Esmenet I take it you don't suggest that you can love truly only once?


Haha yes, but Akka was able to afford younger whores as well, but he always came to her when in Sumna and while she was with him, he didnt couple with others (aside from the Serwe-incident). I dont think Esmi thought about it like that anyway, but i see your point.
No i certainly dont mean that you can only love truly once (tho some may not be so lucky to find it again once it slips away), but it is the betrayal that hurts the most. She was his anchorage and he thought he was hers. But that ofcourse changed with Kellhus's arrival.

No I don't realise this, perhaps I am an emotional cripple, but this is life.

True, that ís life. Maybe i hope to much for something good for Akka, that i dont like it when what he holds most dear gets taken from him. He ís a poor fool.
Well it seems that at least we're in agreement here. Esmenet and Kellhus say to Proyas of their relationship, that they thought somehow that Achamian would have approved. It does not sound like bull$hit. Achamian under torture says "Esme, survive me?", since we're now into making moral judgements, maybe Achamian's love for Esmenet should transcend his jealousy - he should be happy for Kellhus and Esmenet. Kellhus "love" for Esmenet (and certainly he does admire her intellect) gave her something that Achamian could never give and had never given.

True, he should be happy for her. But now Akka is trully alone. Does Esmi not owe it to him to be some sort of a companion? I think she has forgotten how much he needs her and how much he meant to her too.
I dont know if Kellhus really admires her. Is there anyone worth admiring for Kellhus? He stands above them all. Isnt he just playing her like all the others?
What has Kellhus given her that Akka couldnt? Are you referring to her place among the high and mighty and that ppl now listen to her? In a way she already had that when she was with Akka, or am i mistaken?

All of course morally reprehensible but who am I to cast the first stone?

Nicely said, good point. view post


Like father like son? posted 10 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtLike father like son? by shockwave, Candidate

@ .Ex.: But why would the Sranc need to evolve? Except to become better fighters.
Their facial expression is already 0, they just attack and kill. I dont think Kellhus's abilities have alot of influence on them, except that he is a better swordsman etc. But not the facial interpretation part. Their masters must know this.

@ anor277 &amp; Tattoo: Thanks for clearing that up. I thought i had read most of the topics about Shasheoka being a skin-spy or not.
Then i agree with anor, that íf Moenghus is the architect of the Holy War, it does not make sense. Maybe he considers it worth the sacrifice: half the number, but increased strenght through unity. As ive seen mentioned before elsewhere, not a strange path for Dunyain logic to follow.
But still a big gamble, if this was the shortest path, im curious what the other paths were.
Besides, it seems that now some have been shown the skin-spy by Akka, they do not think it so unlikely anymore that the Consult is real. The only reason i can think of why Moenghus didnt think of something like that, is because there werent skin-spies yet, so he didnt have acces to that strong piece of evidence. view post


Like father like son? posted 12 November 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtLike father like son? by shockwave, Candidate

Ugh, wasnt logged in when i posted the above. view post


What about akka and esme. posted 12 November 2005 in The Warrior ProphetWhat about akka and esme. by shockwave, Candidate

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:ma3nq7hv
@shockwave, I wish I'd said "who am I to cast the first stone" before Jesus Christ but I am 2000 year too late (PS I am by no means a god botherer).

As to what Kellhus gave Esmenet that Achamian never could, I do acknowledge what Kellhus gives with one hand he may take away with the other, in other words it may all end in bloody tears for Esmenet (it might end in even much worse, cf Serwe). I suppose I mean that Kellhus made Esmenet confront and accept the enormous “sin” she committed in selling her daughter. Somehow he managed to make her forgive herself. Achamian, who certainly knew of Esmenet’s daughter could not bring himself to speak of it, it was unspeakable, nor could Esmenet – without Kellhus the enormity of this crime was likely to follow her to the grave, the one sin for which there could be no forgiveness. Of course this sin had been repeated many times by other parents across the Three Seas (cf Serwe again), but the banality of an evil deed does not make it any less evil, nor is it any less easy to confront. Kellhus "gift" (and I certainly think it was a gift whatever his motives and whatever the consequences) dwarfs (dwarves?) her current position among Kellhus' acolytes.[/quote:ma3nq7hv]

That had slipped my mind, i am only reading the first book for the 2nd time now. That is indeed something Akka couldnt give her.
I still think she could have been nicer to him <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> But i understand. view post


Ciphrang, altogether confusing posted 18 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCiphrang, altogether confusing by shockwave, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Xray the Enforcer&quot;:1ul4ipfp
Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:1ul4ipfp
Yah I know Im waiting to get ASOIAF. So from what i hear that will keep me occupied.[/quote:1ul4ipfp]

The 3500+ pages should keep you occupied for a couple of days at least. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> I'm hoping the Erikson, Abraham and Stross will keep me occupied until AE and ADWD come out.

Sorry, that was way OT. Carry on.[/quote:1ul4ipfp]

sorry for this slightly OT post, but since there is a long wait till AE and im almost out of reading material, what are the full names and writer's names of: ASOIAF &amp; ADWD ?
And whats the Erikson, Abraham and Stross you refer too? A book written by those writers, or u mean their seperate ouvres will keep u busy? view post


Ciphrang, altogether confusing posted 19 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCiphrang, altogether confusing by shockwave, Candidate

Tnx alot. Ill make sure to get those books <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
And ADWD ? view post


Akka posted 07 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAkka by shockwave, Candidate

I do not agree that Achamian has turned to the Consult.
In a moment of utter weakness, and feeling defeated, while under strain from a Chorea near his chest, he revealed the location of Kellhus to Cnaiur.
I do not contest this is treason. But that is far from turning to someone/thing. He does not applaud (as of yet) the Consult´s goals, nor is he working with them, actively, to achieve the No-God´s resurrection/re-appearance.
Achamian was led by emotions. Emotions made him betray Kellhus in a way he [Kellhus] did not foresee. The probability trance did not predict this, i think.
It is, IMHO, not surprising that Kellhus was betrayed because of the very concept he has become subject to himself by hang-me-high-on-the-tree incident. The concept he has to master within himself now.
Or something like that. Im rambling.

edit. Ontopic: I think Achamiam will try to hide/turn away from the world. For a while. But if he will succeed i do not know.
After that he might become a sort of reluctant aide, working behind the scenes or with obvious resent in order to prevent the second apocalypse. view post


The Aspect-Emperor posted 01 April 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by shockwave, Candidate

I'm sorry if this is not directly related to the speculating, but it suddenly came to my mind.
The moment Kellhus is sent out by his fellow, senior, Dunyains, to assassinate his father because he is tainted by the Outside World.. Kellhus must know that after doing that, if he returns, he will be killed as well.
He cannot travel all the way to find his father, with all the pitfalls and hazardous (as far as that is possible for a Dunyain) 'adventures' in between without being 'tainted' as well. He will have contact with outsiders and have to infiltrate deeply, as he has done. So he should be killed as well, upon returning.
Did he set out initially, knowing that, and doing it for the good of the Dunyain? I can accept that his devotion was so deep at that time that he simply carried out this mission and accepted the consequences, but what of these implications now?
Is he still pursueing the Consult because they threaten the isolation of Ishual, he is Dunyain after all (tho more <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> ) or as most of you here think, does he do it because he believes in the prophecy? In which case he has fallen in the trap he digs so often for others. Say what someone wants to hear and they will believe it, and thus make it so.
End of transmissioned ramble. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 09 April 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by shockwave, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Celestial Ram&quot;:jg8tp71d


The only real evidence i have to support this are the vision and voices he hears. As well as the prophecy he makes. He knows he will die assasinated ( im guessing by Druass) and that his son will take over the battle against the no-God.

As for serwe. She was just delusional.[/quote:jg8tp71d]

Hmm, a prophecy that Kellhus makes? I completely forgot that or i didnt read those pages well enough to understand that. Could you explain or point me to the scene/page? view post


Neuropath out in May 2008 posted 30 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; ANeuropath out in May 2008 by shockwave, Candidate

Damn thats a long wait, but at least now we have a date to hope/aim/wait for <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Tnx for the info mith. view post


Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. posted 16 April 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by shockwave, Candidate

amazon.co.uk has the release for The Great Ordeal (which should be The Judging Eye) for january 15 2009 <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> view post


Title for AE 2? posted 16 April 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Title for AE 2? by shockwave, Candidate

Bakker confirmed in an interview that AE will be a trilogy as well now.
#1 The Judging Eye
#2 The Shortest Path
#3 some reference about alot of things hitting a certain fan :p view post


  •  

The Three Seas Forum archives are hosted and maintained courtesy of Jack Brown