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posts by Gravity Gun Candidate | joined 08 Apr 2007 | 33

Is No-God an Apache Attack Helicopter? posted 08 Apr 2007, 20:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs No-God an Apache Attack Helicopter? by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Well it sure sounds like it! Think about it -- big whirlwind, thick armor, vulnerable to big laser cannon -- what else could it be? :) But seriously, just exactly what is it? Any good theories? There does appear to be some inconsistencies about its nature. In the Glossary included in The Thousand Fold Thought, under "Tekne" we read that the Inchoroi base their "craft" under the assumption that all things are mechanical in nature. So the No-God should be a mechanical, engineered entity (in which case it very well might have been something like an attack helicopter :wink: ). But under the entry of "No-God," we read the Inchoroi worship it as their savior. In fact at the end of The Warrior Prophet Aurax refers to himself as "His" (presumably the No-God) servant. It doesn't seem to make sense that the Inchoroi should worship something they engineered and manufactured, and refer to themselves as its "servant." view post

posted 09 Apr 2007, 02:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAre there female skin spies? by Gravity Gun, Candidate

The most appalling scene to me, in the whole trilogy, must be the image of Cnaiur kissing the true face of the thing posing as Serwe. That had me throwing up all night... Given the physical differences, even without getting naked, between men and women (Adam's apple, breast, hip, etc.) beyond facial, it seems the skin-spies' morphing ability must be very formidable indeed. Reminds me of the liquid metal T-1000 from Terminator 2. :D Which reminds me of a question: what's with Geshrunni? Why was his face taken? The skin-spies do not need an actual face to pose as that person -- so is that just casual cruelty? view post

posted 09 Apr 2007, 02:04 in The Darkness That Comes Beforeinrau by Gravity Gun, Candidate

[quote="Jamara":5lhxwxvi]I don't think he discovered anything about the Shriah. I think he was having conflicting emotions and went to a shrine to pray and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when he came across the Synthese and had to be killed for what he saw.[/quote:5lhxwxvi] On page 119, in italics, Inrau thought "[i:5lhxwxvi]The Shriah. But how could it be[/i:5lhxwxvi]?" just before his unfortunate meeting with Aurang. So he must have discovered something shocking about the Shriah, though we are never told what he has discovered. But my guess is that it has nothing to do with the Consult, since when Inrau sees Aurang in its birdform, he was stunned nearly speechless. If Inrau has seen something that links the Shriah to the Consult, he would not have been this surprised to see a member of the Consult. In all probability, he saw something that suggests Cishaurim. After all, Maithanet is in fact sent by a renegade member of the Cishaurim. view post

posted 09 Apr 2007, 02:04 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeThe Prologue by Gravity Gun, Candidate

The bit about the Nonman having actual faces sewn on his cloak threw me off for a while. I naturally linked this to the "de-facing," if you will, of poor Geshrunni. So I thought those hunting down the spies of various schools must be Nonman, that it's their habit to collect human faces. :roll: view post

posted 09 Apr 2007, 03:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Kellhus vs. Satan? Kellhus hands down! I mean think about all the [i:26ybricd]issues[/i:26ybricd] Satan must have, what with the teenage rebellion, parental abandonment, insecurity with body-image (those horns, and pitch-fork? That's so 90s!). Put the Prince of Darkness on a couch and give Kellhus 20 minutes to psychoanalyze Him, and Satan will be crying his eyeballs out... Now Kellhus vs. Indiana Jones -- that will be a one-sided conflict. Kellhus will be standing there brandishing his sword and pontificating about the frailties of mankind, and Harrison Ford will just pull out a revolver and shoot him dead. :lol: view post

posted 09 Apr 2007, 03:04 in The Darkness That Comes Beforeinrau by Gravity Gun, Candidate

That's what Moenghus is, isn't it? view post

posted 09 Apr 2007, 05:04 in The Darkness That Comes Beforeinrau by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Well I use the word "renegade" in the sense that he only pretends to serve Fane and Cishaurim, that by this point in the story he has long since developed his own agenda, which in fact hinges on the destruction of Cishaurim by a Holy War. view post

posted 09 Apr 2007, 05:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Ha! Kellhus in Westeros? With all the psychological baggage everybody there carries, Kellhuss can talk his way onto the Iron Throne in a week, if he wants it. p.s.: an interesting parallel -- skin-spies and Faceless Men. :?: :!: view post

posted 10 Apr 2007, 05:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Gravity Gun, Candidate

[quote="Jamara":3szgb7kc]Oh yeah, Kellhus would so walk right through Westeros. I think on ly the Eunuch would stand any chance against his manipulations.[/quote:3szgb7kc] I doubt it. His ability is disguise and deception -- neither will work against Kelhuss. Well, to be sure, we don't know if anything can work against Kelhuss. We may need to import some kryptonite to get at this guy. view post

posted 13 Apr 2007, 03:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs No-God an Apache Attack Helicopter? by Gravity Gun, Candidate

I thought the Inchoroi want to stay away from the Outside? view post

Inchoroi: Aliens or Demons? posted 13 Apr 2007, 04:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtInchoroi: Aliens or Demons? by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Partly inspired by the reply to my Apache helicopter thread :) -- just what are the Inchoroi? Aliens from a dying world, or demons who escaped from Hell? Originally I thought they were the standard supernatural great evil of high fantasy. Then I read about the "golden ark" and the "weapons of light" -- oh so they are extraterrestrials. Now upon further reflection I'm not so sure anymore. Their sheer "malignancy" seems to defy any explanation based on the assumption of a technologically advanced alien race. One advantage of the demon hypothesis is the potential to construct some sort of "grand unified theory." Admittedly right now this is no more than tantalizing pieces -- Outside, souls as conduit to Outside, damnation, demons from the Void/Hell, escape from Judgment/escape from damnation, extermination of all beings with souls, No-God -- as in no Outside/a world sealed off, Achamian mentioning how sorcery supposedly can only destroy not create, but the Mangaecca "discovering a catastrophic means" to undo damnation -- perhaps No-God is a sorcery-creation? These things all should be connected, but so far I still don't know how. Except if the Inchoroi are just plain little green men none of this would make much sense. view post

posted 14 Apr 2007, 04:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtInchoroi: Aliens or Demons? by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Are the Inchoroi evil? Bakker's world is not Tolkien's, where good guys are easily identifiable by their noble blood, the stars bound to their brows, and the fact that they can't walk three steps without dripping chivalry all over the place. Who are the good guys here? I think they are in fact humanity itself, represented by Men of the Tusk. They are ignorant, murderous, treacherous, and fanatical. In other words, they are not merely frail, but often wicked. Yet they also brood over their own guilt, fall to knees with tears in joy or sorrow, and sacrifice the most precious thing they have -- their lives -- to atone and repent all their sins. The Inchoroi, it seems, possess all of men's wickedness, but none of men's guilty conscience and desire for redemption. To put this in another perspective, I think of a tripartite world (yes yes I know this is just incredibly cliched -- everyone knows all Western stories come in three parts :wink: ). You have two basic elements: Logos (reason/intellect) and flesh. On one extreme there is the Dunyain, creatures of pure Logos. They are, as have been implied many times in the book, not really human. Many readers have called Kellhus a sociopath. On the other extreme there is the Inchoroi, things of pure flesh. To them everything is done to satisfy the carnal. In the middle you have those who are tormented by both Logos and flesh -- humanity (and maybe Nonmen too). In such a world, and if my formulations are correct, then perhaps Inchoroi DOES represent the ultimate evil, and the Dunyain would have been no different if not for the fact that Kellhus is beginning to transform. view post

posted 15 Apr 2007, 05:04 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Achamian by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Yes I agree he'll live. Not only live, but well enough to have gotten a book deal (Compendium of the First Holy War). :wink: It seems unlikely that he will be able to physically get to Ishual. Judging by the narrative at the beginning of Darkness, it's inconceivable that anybody other than a Dunyain could have survived the journey through the wilderness between Atrithau and Ishual. It took Kellhus, who's near the prime of his life and had supreme physical fitness, everything he had -- including very good luck -- just to survive and get through. Akka, being by then probably old enough to cash in his S401(K) (sorcerer's retirement plan), will not have much of a chance to fend off the cold, hunger, Sranc hordes, and the occasional Nonmen lunatic. Being something of a scholar, probably he'll find some cache of old books or artifacts far away from Ishual, and manage to uncover the origin of the Dunyain cult that way. view post

posted 15 Apr 2007, 21:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Holy War and the Consult by Gravity Gun, Candidate

All sorcery seem to be derived from Nonmen Gnosis, except that of the Cishaurim (forgot what it's called). What do you is the importance of that, if any? Apparently it's enough to get the Consult pretty nervous. view post

posted 22 Apr 2007, 23:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Achamian the No God? (TWP, pg 12)... by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Let's simply admit this outright: Bakker has constructed the perfect mystery. We just have not the slightest clue what the No-God is. Upon re-reading TWP, the haunting words of the No-God has somehow managed to baffle me even more -- it's something that cannot see itself yet is desperate to know what itself looks like. Far from some battlefield boasting ("Mwahahahaha! I shall smite all you puny humans down and rule the world!"), the No-God asks these utterly incomprehensible questions before being cut to pieces by a laser cannon. On a related note: Lokung is No-God, right? So the Scylvendi are also traitors to humanity, right? But why would they follow the No-God? view post

posted 23 Apr 2007, 04:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Achamian the No God? (TWP, pg 12)... by Gravity Gun, Candidate

This explanation, as with any other possible explanation, leaves one big gap for me: the apparent nature of the NG (death and destruction) and its bizzare questions. It clearly wants to destroy the human world, so why when we meet it, it asks all these strange questions, instead of talking about anything related to the Apocalypse (which should have been priority to him, to say the least)? Besides, if the NG is an oversoul -- why would it want to destroy other souls? Maybe it's the collective soul of those who are damned? The Consult somehow managed to pull it out of Hell, and it desperately doesn't want to go back? This would explain its destructive tendency -- no one alive, no crime; no crime, no damnation. But then this would divorce it from the explanation for the stillborn babies. Also it still doesn't explain why it asks these questions. view post

posted 25 Apr 2007, 03:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Achamian the No God? (TWP, pg 12)... by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Again -- not much substantive to contribute :) -- but I just want to say that the No-God surely is the one of the most magnificent villains in all of fantasy. Ultimate evil and ultimate mystery. view post

posted 01 May 2007, 06:05 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Ummmm, are we forgetting something here? How about the fact that he is insane? Also racist? Every other word out of his mouth (if it's not a spit) is "the People" this and "the People" that -- he completely buys into the notion that everybody else is just sacrificial animal, whose lives are totally worthless. His extreme misanthropy borders on the comic. Had he lived, he would surely be leading the No-God's cavalry during the second apocalypse. He's a well crafted character to be sure, but certainly not personally likable to me. I mean, ask yourself this: would you want him for a roommate? :wink: view post

posted 02 May 2007, 03:05 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Gravity Gun, Candidate

[quote="Warrior-Poet":17uealzm]I disagree, he simply tells himself and others, these things to try and convince himself that they are true, Cnauir maybe completely insane but its only because he lives a lifestyle that he knows he does not agree with. Cnauir's story can be summed up in two words "Inner Conflict".[/quote:17uealzm] Sure, he has questioned some aspects of Scylvendi custom under the influence of Mo, but I remember no instance where he has ever questioned the central tenet of Scylvendi ideology: everyone else is only sacrificial animal for the People to offer on the altar of the dead No-God. BTW, his martial brilliance also should not be exaggerated -- certainly Conphas, probably Skauras, and maybe even Fanayal are all better than him. Remember, his incompetence nearly doomed the Inrithi on the banks of the Sempis. view post

posted 02 May 2007, 03:05 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]TTT, that which comes after and golgotterath? by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Good post. I've also wondered about exactly what the "Thousandfold Thought" is. From that last section you quoted, it seems Kellhus has come to the startling conclusion that the Dunyain are in fact no different from the Consult. So it makes sense to say that he who has grasped the Thousandfold Thought is someone who has transcended the Dunyain, which is to say the Logos, which is nothing less than the whole world. What else is there? The Outside, of course. view post

The Celmomian Prophecy posted 03 May 2007, 05:05 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeThe Celmomian Prophecy by Gravity Gun, Candidate

The first time I read it out aloud, my own reaction shocked me. Today I tried again, and again got really choked up and had to wipe away a few surprising tears. :cry: :wink: Don't know if it's my too vivid imagination or what, but that part about the old king dying in Seswatha's arms always gets me like nothing else. Daybreak indeed. view post

Questions about Xerius posted 03 May 2007, 06:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestions about Xerius by Gravity Gun, Candidate

First, why did the Consult choose to kill him? Second, how did he think he could get away with destroying the Holy War in front of Shimeh, even if he succeeds? This is war, involving hundreds of thousands of people -- there's no way he could keep this a secret. How can he possibly escape the greatest outrage (the Shrial Censure would be the least of his problems) among the Inrithi? view post

posted 10 May 2007, 01:05 in The Thousandfold Thoughtart work by Gravity Gun, Candidate

"...a high-winged monstrosity... Blazing eyes and translucent flesh." Aurang's original form? view post

Miscellaneous Stuff posted 12 May 2007, 03:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtMiscellaneous Stuff by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Just to be sure: Kellhus is immune to Chorae now, right? But why? Also, on the number of Srancs: how can there be that many? The book speaks of numbers stretching across the horizon, even in the days of the Apocalypse. Yet I have the impression that: 1. they need food no less than human; 2. they are hunter-gatherers. Human populations began to explode only when we adopted agriculture. As hunter-gatherers there simply isn't enough food to feed a big population. Bashrags: what do they look like? Due to my infatuation with Warcraft back in the days, I can't seem to shake the image of [url=]Ogres[/url:1xplp984] of various sorts whenever I read about Bashrags. Except Bashrags probably don't have two heads. Maybe three? Mama Anasurimbor: where is she? And more importantly, is she hot? :D Alternative theory on why Kellhus so desperately wants Gnosis: Mother's Day is coming up, and he has give Ishual a "call." If he knows what's good for him. Zeum: By all indication a large and prosperous nation. How can they be just left out of the story of the second Apocalypse? Judging by map, they have a much better route to Golgoterath by sea -- just hug the coast and head north. Eanna: So the gates were broken. Were they re-sealed? If not, how come there is no more contact with the original homeland? view post

Re: Miscellaneous Stuff posted 12 May 2007, 05:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtMiscellaneous Stuff by Gravity Gun, Candidate

[quote="anor277":c68u4xwx]...his preternatural reflexes enabled him to grasp a chorae bolt (i.e. the pointy end not but not the trinket end) but he (and Moenghus) are clearly susceptible to them. I grant that in 20 years Kellhus may unravel the Aporos but that remains to be seen.[/quote:c68u4xwx] Oh that's what it is? I feel pretty stupid now. :oops: Yet... This is effectively the same thing, isn't it? There are only two ways to deliver a Chorae: either shoot it from a distance, or up close by treachery/ambush (e.g. Geshrunni vis-a-vis Akka). You can't reach him with an arrow. And up close ambush is useless since he can see through your intention right away. And it probably won't take him 20 years. After all in just a few weeks he has already done what even the Quya couldn't do -- a three string Cant. I mean, seriously, I almost feel sorry for the Consult for having to go up against an enemy like this. By the time the next book opens, he will be all but indistinguishable from a God, at least insofar as sorcery is concerned. Another misc point I forgot to bring up in the first post: what's the relationship between Kellhus and Maithanet like now? Kellhus, after all, did kill Maithanet's father. view post

Quotes about Faith posted 05 Jun 2007, 02:06 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeQuotes about Faith by Gravity Gun, Candidate

I remember two very nice, pithy aphorism about faith -- not sure if they are in this book or the other two volumes. One is something like "Faith is the truth of passion. Since no one passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing." The other I need some help with -- "Faith is [something something] hope. But why have faith when hope alone is enough?" Does anyone remember how that line goes? view post

Re: will this be true of the sequel? posted 07 Jun 2007, 02:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Gravity Gun, Candidate

[quote="slh_2000":1ppyrrkk]Tho it makes sense, do we know for fact that seswatha and the dreams will remain now that Akka has renounced his faith? And when the dreams chaged, isn't is possible (in theory) that perhaps the dreams were never accurate to begin with? perhaps Seswatha purposly corrupted the dreams to reach some other conclusion or perhaps to trick the Mandate into guarding the Gnosis? Not to say seswatha was evil, but perhaps just not completely truithful?[/quote:1ppyrrkk] A most interesting point. We have been shown the dreams, for more than one time, all the way up to the firing of the Heron Spear (I think it's safe to use the word "fire" rather than "throw" :wink: ) -- but never the event itself. Why? The firing of this terrible weapon of light must have been spectacular for a people who have never seen such things before (all other such weapons were used up in the war between the Nonman and Inchoroi). Even more magnificent and certainly memorable would have been the destruction of the No-God as a result of the firing. So why did we never see that? Why, indeed, in the last "showing" of the dream, things seem to take a horribly wrong turn as the Heron Spear was never fired? What really happened? It may be all coincidental. But perhaps not. Is it by chance that this last strange dream for Akka takes place after the encounter between Kelhuss and Seswatha? Remember the spinning knife? We know the Dunyain are master hypnotists: Kelhuss is described as having "scraped away" Serwe's memory of rape. So it seems he did something similar here: it seems all Mandate Schoolmen underwent some very deep hypnosis procedure during initiation, but Kelhuss manages to loosen or even break the hold of this hypnosis in order to learn the Gnosis. Once that hypnosis loosens its grip, is it possible that some deeper, truer memory might surface? The study deepens, father. :wink: view post

posted 09 Jun 2007, 02:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Was there an actually description of the spear itself? The firing? And the fall of No-God? I don't seem to remember any of these. And I don't think those dreams are results of sorcery, for three reasons. 1. It's not true that the Mandate shcoolmen use dreams of the Apocalypse to communicate. All sorcerers, Cishaurim and Scarlet Spires and Mandate, communicate with each other while one of them is in a dreaming state. For Mandate schoolmen, this often means the receiver is having a "Seswathian" dream while receiving communication. 2. The act of holding Seswatha's heart while being initiated doesn't mean the dreams are sorcerous. First, this mental fixation on a captivating object procedure sounds a lot like "look at the spinning shiny knife" -- in other words, it sounds very much like hypnosis. Second, based on everything we know, this is simply not how spells are cast. They must be cast where the sorcerer has a line-of-sight to his objective (otherwise they can simply cast war spells behind masses of soldiers without having to expose themselves to Chorae bowmen). Obviously Seswatha is long dead and can't see his followers. The only exception is spell of dream communication, which has to take place between people who personally know each other, and Seswatha couldn't possibly know all the Mandate Schoolmen who have followed him. 3. Again, think about how Kelhuss overcomes the hold Seswatha has over Akka to get Gnosis. He did not cast any spells. It seems unlikely to me that hypnosis can overcome sorcery. Unless it's not sorcery to begin with. view post

posted 14 Jun 2007, 04:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Kelhuss has mastered the ability of teleportation, even to places where he has never been before. So it doesn't really matter how many sorcerers attack him -- if he's overmatched, he'll simply teleport out of trouble. Hell, he can teleport right into the heart of Golgotterath right now and kick Aurang in the gonads. :D view post

posted 14 Jun 2007, 04:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Achamian by Gravity Gun, Candidate

I mentioned this in another thread -- but really the best way is to go by sea, which means allying with Zuem (sp?). If you look at the map, the land route is just far too long. From the Three Seas to Golgotterath, the supply line will be simply unmanagable. And a supply line there must be, since the north is a wilderness so the army can't live off the land. If he intends to go by land, 40 years of preparation will still not be enough. view post

The Norwegian Dunyain posted 13 Aug 2007, 21:08 in Author Q & AThe Norwegian Dunyain by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Have you ever heard of her? Norwegian-American Aud Torvingen, a fictional character created by author Nicola Griffith. She has so far appeared in three books: “The Blue Place”, “Stay”, “Always”. These are novels of realism, not fantasy, so of course she is not literally a Dunyain. She’s only human. But not by much. Lying on the beach and reading “Always” yesterday, it suddenly dawned on me that she shares three crucial similarities with the Dunyain: first, superb physical fitness/martial arts; second, a near-demonic ability to read other people’s thoughts and emotions, and to infer their intentions and past experiences; third, a chameleon-like quality that allows her to morph into any role/disguise, in any given situation, to manipulate others and maximize advantages for herself. And needless to say, that essential coldness, that "detached" quality. If you haven't, try “The Blue Place.” When I first read it (this was 1998, long before Prince of Nothing came out), she reminds me of – guess who? – Nietzsche. :) view post

posted 13 Aug 2007, 21:08 in The Thousandfold ThoughtMoënghus won by losing, fooled everybody by Gravity Gun, Candidate

The point about smell is a good one, but I don't buy that Mo can fool Kelhuss if he used any sorcery at all. Remember, the Psuke (sp?) is already inferior to the Gnosis, and Kelhuss is better at Gnosis than anybody. view post

posted 18 Aug 2007, 03:08 in Author Q & AThe Norwegian Dunyain by Gravity Gun, Candidate

You speak of introspection and development, but I still feel that Kellhus' inner world is just far too opaque for us to understand. He evidently had undergone some transformations, but exactly what, we don't really know. In any event, are there really "hundreds" of characters like this in fantasy novels? I admit I haven't read many, and the only two (other than Prince of Nothing) that I've read more than once and in any depth are LOTR and George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, and there certainly are no such characters in them. It's my impression that authors usually shy away from creating such "Ubermensch" because readers cannot relate to them at all. view post


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