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Holsety Candidate | joined 12 February 2007 | 14 posts

What philosophers informed The Prince of Nothing? posted 12 February 2007 in Philosophy DiscussionWhat philosophers informed The Prince of Nothing? by Holsety, Candidate

The whole "self-moving individual" thing made me thing of Richard Wright's (better known for Native Son) The Outsider, a book in the same general vein as Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment. I've always assumed Wright didn't construct the theory he explores, since he seems much more concerned with exploring it than proving it. You might consider looking at Kierkegaard, who seems to have had a profound influence on Wright, but I've been too lazy to take a closer look.

Esmenet's thoughts on The Sagas reminded me a lot of The Iliad in terms of the language. The structuring of them, the history behind the writing, is far closer to the scholastic understanding of the Torah/Tanakh - many authors, . I realize some would probably argue that Homer, God, and the possible authors of the Torah are/were not philosophers, but I'd ask them to leave that for another time, or more bluntly never, since I would agree with that.

One of the little chapter preludes really reminded me of Aeschylus' oresteia, but I haven't a clue what and I'm probably imagining it in any case.

The whole 'dots on the map' with water coming in (as the outside coming in) reminds me of Emerson or Thoreau's Oversoul speech/essay thing. I can't remember which one wrote it - quite frankly, I can't stand either anyway. It's possible that either drew their ideas from somewhere else; certainly, the idea that everything has a connection to the divine isn't too far off from Plato. Frankly, I can imagine Bakker coming up with it 'independently' rather than reading one of them and applying them to his book. view post

A Song of Ice and Fire to Become TV Series posted 12 February 2007 in Literature DiscussionA Song of Ice and Fire to Become TV Series by Holsety, Candidate

[url:3d8ocnwz][/url:3d8ocnwz] has the picks for various characters some fan made.

The good thing about ASOIAF is that it doesn't need to be heavy on really nice special effects. There aren't big battles that use high powered magic (yea we see some magic but it isn't really handled the same way it is in many fantasy series). Eventually we have dragons to deal with though, but they are still relatively small at the moment so that makes it easier.

But it's not like a TV series about Rome would have magic in it. Fantasy and sci-fi productions tend to aim ambitiously high in terms of spectacle. More than anything else, I'd like to see Stannis' attack on king's landing...but that'll cost.

Damn, I almost feel like cutting Dany out would help the series initially. It's going to be tough to hook a TV audience on her and her little circle of friends in one corner and Westeros in the other. view post

Any Wolfe fans? posted 12 February 2007 in Literature DiscussionAny Wolfe fans? by Holsety, Candidate

Lord Null, are you SgtNull from Kevin's Watch? If so I've found two people from over there.

Anyway, Wolfe is amazing. I've read...his Latro series, New and Long Sun books, Peace, Fifth Head, and The Knight. Also one of his short story books, Innocents Abroad (I bought it since it was named after one of Twain's works).

I think Fifth Head and The New Sun books are my favorites. I was a little tired for most of my reading of Peace, so I didn't get a fair amount of it. I'm not really a fan of The Knight, I kept gnashing my teeth when he messed up details about knights I had learned from historical stuff (even if it was intentional, which I suspect may have been the case in some instances) and all in all I finished it feeling kind of un-wowed. It wasn't bad, it just didn't really capture my interest in the same way Wolfe's stuff usually does.

I certainly didn't feel that the strength of these books was...the ability to turn an elegant sentence...

I have to disagree with that...Wolfe sometimes writes confusingly, but he's managed some of the most elegant sentences I've seen, and he knows when to put that talent to good use.

If there's one thing that annoys me about The Book of New Son, it's the archaic words he uses which he explicitly states do not fit. At the same time, I love the atmosphere and effect he creates by doing so. view post

A Song of Ice and Fire to Become TV Series posted 17 February 2007 in Literature DiscussionA Song of Ice and Fire to Become TV Series by Holsety, Candidate

The only HBO series I've really watched much of is The Wire. It is an incredible series, but I don't think it's much of an indication as to how well or poorly HBO will do, being focused on drugdealers and cops in Baltimore. But whatever. I feel like it won't turn out too bad. view post

The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 04 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Holsety, Candidate

Let me start with posts from a topic which has died. I thought about posting in there, but I wasn't sure if there were necro-posting rules here, so I've made a new topic.

Quote: "Harrol":23u57463
There is no one antagonist in this story. You have the consult, the No-God and Kellhus who can argueably be protagonists. Akka is a very human individual in fact his personality and how he feels about peopl seems very similar to Seswatha in the dreams. There are differences though, like Seswatha was politically astute where as Akka is inept because he tries to hard. Now that Akka has nothing to try so hard for he may become a master at Benjaku and therefore serve many purposes. As for turning to the consult? I doubt it. Akka will become the source of their nightmares they will scream his name in dread as his form becomes the incarnation of Seswatha on the battlefield. In TTT Akka even marvels at what he did to the Scarlet Spires because Seswatha took over in some form. Why is Seswatha so dominant in Akka and not the rest of the Mandate? I belive it is due to a kindred spirit and deeply similar motivations that go beyond simply hating the Consult.[/quote:23u57463]
Quote: "Fruitbat":23u57463
Hello... this is my first so be gentle... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->
I think Achamian the moral marker of the books. By this I mean that in a world full of near-gods, kings and the Dunyain Akka is the only character that I could really understand the motavations of. (ok... Esmi too.. but thats another chunk of a topic). At the end of TTT I don't think his leaving the Aspect Emperor's court represents a turn to powers that would seek to distroy the world. It seemed more like a man who finally really SAW what was happening and facing it. He's not running away from his future anymore, he's limping off to meet it.[/quote:23u57463]
I ital'd important parts, and bolded what I believe to be the key points I'm adopting in this post.

I couldn't help remembering Esmi's reading of The Sagas, one of my favorite parts of TTT (for anyone who's curious it all starts on 164 of the hardcover, Overlook edition). Favorite line being &quot;Scowling, she gathered them and carried them to her bed, wondering that the Apocalypse could feel so light.&quot;

Anyway, we learn a few things of import about the Anasurimbors:
-Celmomas II, the Anasurimbor who warred against the No-God, was a man of &quot;flint-hearted brilliance&quot; whose brother was stillborn; this could either relate to Kellhus, also an internally cold and calculating man, or his children, as Celmomas had a still-born brother.
-This Anasurimbor king is wise, indeed, but could ultimately only see what was self-serving.

And about Seswatha:
-He's ultimately the only wizard who really sees the truth, &quot;the gathering signs&quot; - does this relate to him now leaving Kellhus' court?
-We then get his position in several of the sagas (note there are only 8 roles given, and there are 9 sagas). I'll note the ones I got ideas about below.
1&gt;Starts as under his mighty and inconstant king.
2&gt;Is teacher and surrogate of Nau-Cayuti (who was like the best Anasurimbor till he up and died IIRC). Is this important because he teaches Kellhus, or will he teach one of Kellhus' sons?
3&gt;Powerful but resented voice in the war councils after Nau's death.
5&gt;He flees when the no-god is coming.
8&gt;Concluding saga, with Kyraneas's fall (didn't they survive and beat Mog?). He's &quot;nothing less than the world's savior&quot;.

I think it should be self-evident what my viewpoint is at this point, but I think there's strong hints that Akka is our Seswatha. He's powerful, and is one of the few people who's aware of most of what's going on, but is ultimately despised. During books 1 and 2 he is literally the only one who believes in the apocalypse, and at the end we begin to see that his expectations have held true. If his role does hold somewhat to Seswatha's, he may well be nothing less than our true hero in the series.

Another thing I find interesting is a sort of blur between Nau and Celmomas when it comes to Kellhus. If I remember correctly, Akka's pride in his student's aptitude in unraveling and elaborating on age-old philosophers, historians, and sorcerers is mirrored in one of the dreams, in terms of Nau being the greatest glory of the anasurimbors. Celmomas, meanwhile, is intelligent but not really a heroic figure, and I get the feeling Seswatha was in conflict with him more than in concurrence. Thus, Kellhus seems to mirror both Nau and Celmomas to me, but his internal personality (cold calculating) does seem to match up with Cel, even though I wouldn't describe him as particularly self-serving. view post

Your First Time posted 05 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionYour First Time by Holsety, Candidate

Taran Wanderer, prolly when I was about 5-9 years of age. view post

The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 06 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Holsety, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Harrol&quot;:3pk8qpv2
True, I believe he is trying to thwart the apocalypse. Hebelieves the No-God is returning just by what the skin spies and Aurang has told him let alone from what Akka told him.[/quote:3pk8qpv2]
Ya, I think Kellhus is at least opposing the Consult. Honestly, what I'm hoping for is that we'll see more of what happened in the last book; the Consult sometimes finding itself out of its depth when dealing with Kellhus and others. Too many books have the shadowy ancient evil group shaping every event, up to the last 20 or 30 climatic pages.
Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:3pk8qpv2
Why should anyone feel that Achamian, alone of the Mandate, is specially linked to Seswatha?[/quote:3pk8qpv2]He is actually referred to as Seswatha directly during his escape. I believe one of the quotes is &quot;Seswatha was free&quot; or something like that.
Anyway, Esmenet has already stated that Seswatha’s position in the Sagas is ambiguous, a scheming manipulator in the one source and the saviour of humanity in the next.

Yes; and, specifically, a savior in the last. Moreover, as the Sagas are the view of a people as a whole, rather than an actual account of who the person actually is, Akka is already playing the role of a coward and a traitor openly by leaving Kellhus' court. The Sagas do not necessarily display that Seswatha was particularly inconstant; rather, they prove that the world's view of Seswatha is inconstant. If you ask me, Bakker does a very good job of making Akka's changing view of Kellhus, which is outwardly very erratic, is consistent with who Akka is. He even points to this:
Hated or adored, Seswatha was the pin in the navigator's bowl, the true hero of The Sagas, though not one cycle or chronicle acknowledged him as such. And each time Esmenet encountered some variant of his name, she would clutch her breast and think, Achaiman

(End of this part of the argument)
He manipulated Nau-Cayuti (possibly Seswatha’s only son) into a mad raid on Golgotterath and after the success of the raid (for Seswatha but not for his protégé) he (Seswatha) failed to protect him. Again, Seswatha did what he had to do but I cannot see a more or less moral person, i.e. Achamian, repeating the actions of his predecessor.

Seswatha didn't do what he had to do lightly; the desperation as he shouts at 'Nau's expression as much as his words' (rough quoting) makes it clear that he didn't want to lie to Nau. Also, Nau's death is attributed to poision, not the raid. The fact that the glossary says 'apparently' implies uncertainty, but that's a far cry from any basis that Seswatha caused Nau-Cayeti's death.

Other than lying to Nau, I know of no lies or manipulations from Seswatha. Moreover, the circumstances lead one to think he was willing to make sacrifices for a perceived to be a greater calling - would one call Abraham &quot;pragmatic&quot; since he was willing to kill Isaac?

And besides, Achaiman has done the same thing. Remember Inrau? Akka chose his mission as a mandate sorcerer over his pupil. If Seswatha did fail to protect Nau, it would only create another link between Akka and Seswatha.
Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:3pk8qpv2
*Agrees with Anor*
The crux of Seswatha falling out with Celomas was an affair with his wife, I believe - thus the possibility that Nau is his (Seswatha's) son.

You could draw as many, if not more, parrallels between Kellhus and Seswatha if you were so inclined (manipulator, sorcerous prodigy etc).[/quote:3pk8qpv2]
So, isn't that falling out yet again a parallel, with Akka and Kell conflicting over Esmi? Especially since Cel keeps his wife (presumably) and his son, and Kellhus keeps Esmi (some other post on here gave evidence that Esmi's son ain't Akka's, so forget that).

As far as Kellhus and Seswatha...again, see the above thing; there's very little reason to think Seswatha's manipulation is comparable to Kellhus' - manipulation is an instinct for the warrior-prophet, while Seswatha struggles over the betrayal of one person, no matter how dear. And, again, one can compare Sessa's use of Nau to Akka's use of Inrau. And as I pointed out already, the one most pointed to as a cold genius is Celo, a &quot;flint-hearted genius&quot;. Meanwhile, the respective roles of Akka and Kellhus link them to Sessa and Cel; Akka is a tutor and sorcerer while Kellhus is a military leader. Akka's sorcery is central to his characte; right now, I don't think the same can be said for Kellhus, except for his understanding of inutterals. And the Gnosis is Mandate, and an ancient sorcery, not a creation of Sessa, while the Dreams - which Kellhus does not have - are the firmest ties to Seswatha.

Then all we're left with is &quot;sorcerous prodigy&quot;. Not a very strong comparison. If you wish to draw more comparisons, then do so, but here's a list of ties and comparisons between Akka and Sessa. (Oh, by the way, Sessa is a two syllable nick used by Nau for Seswatha; Akka, Sessa...ah-kA, se-sA...but that isn't a serious comparison XD )
-Used students for a perceived larger purpose
-Esmi thinks of Achaiman as she ruminates on Sessa's role in the sagas, thus making ties between the roles of Akka and Sessa.
-Captured by enemies (Akka by Spires, Sessa by Consult).
+In addition, both are captured after a battle; the fall of Tryse results in Sessa's capture, while Akka is captured fighting in the library. Sessa is tortured to find out where the heron spear is. Akka is tortured about the Gnosis and about Kellhus. Neither spill the beans.
+Finally, both are thought of as heroes for this; even Nautezera lauds Akka's battle and then escape with the Spires, while the Sagas describe Sessa heroically (this one is the 4th, which I didn't deign to notice, if you look at my list above).
Quote: &quot;TTT Pg 8&quot;:3pk8qpv2
Yes! You did well, Achamian - well enough to be written! Immortalized in our annals! But what's this about lies?[/quote:3pk8qpv2]
(By the way i just realized i didn't know how to spell Akka's full name XD )
Quote: &quot;TTT Pg 172&quot;:3pk8qpv2
In &quot;The Trisiad&quot;, the verse account of Tryse's destruction, [Sessa] was a shining beacon on the parapets, clawing dragons from the sky with sorcerous light[/quote:3pk8qpv2]
After Tryse's fall is when Sessa is captured by the consult btw.
-Akka is called Sessa in the warrior prophet's narration during his escape (I have no page number).
-Both conflict with an anasurimbor over a woman.
-Both have shifting roles, and thus people perceive them in shifting ways over time.
-Both &quot;see the truth&quot;. Even if you argue that Akka is stupid/confused when he leaves Kellhus, there is still the passage in TTT where Kellhus displays truth (himself) to Akka.
-Sessa flees, Akka leaves Kellhus' court. Both are seen as treachery. Whether either was treachery remains to be seen.

I feel there may be more, but I'm leaving things like that.

Oh, and Aspect Emperor is 20 years after the series, not 30. I've always placed Akka as late 30s to mid 40s max, he's middle aged in a nonmodern society. Even 50 would be pretty a few centuries back. I admit, I don't think it's likely, in consideration of that, that he'll actually be the hero of the series, but I continue to maintain that he's pretty much the new Seswatha, and his side is likely going to be &quot;the good side&quot;. view post

Chorae, Consults and Salts. (Or &quot;A Boy and His Bird) posted 06 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtChorae, Consults and Salts. (Or &quot;A Boy and His Bird) by Holsety, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Entropic_existence&quot;:1d1zr5on
I just felt I should post what we do know about Chorae and their making from the books. The Chorae where created by Nonmen who practiced the Aporos, which I assume branched off of Gnostic Sorcery but is distinct from it. Thus there are three types of Sorcery that we know of: Gnostic, Anagogic, and the Aporos. The Aporos does not rely on analogy like Anagogic sorcery, instead it turns on contradiction. Contradiction is the hinge of the Aporos which is why the Nonmen banned it, it was very, very different and very dangerous. One can think of Gnostic and Anagogic sorcery as being say like matter and the Aporos as being like anti-matter which is why they cancel one another out the way they do. The Aporos contradicts and thus nullifies sorcery.

When the Aporos was banned the Consult took in the Nonmen practitioners and thus commissioned the creation of the Chorae. These details come from the books, the TTT glossary, and from Scott in the Q&amp;A board.[/quote:1d1zr5on]
Hmm. So does this mean that chorae are like balls of anti-magic?

That's weird. In one of the Sessa dreams, it's revealed that Nonmen sorcs tend to have larger marks of sorcery that cause them to be killed if they come to close to a chorae, let alone touch it. One would think that, like matter and antimatter, you'd need an equivalent amount of antimatter to just straight cancel out the matter (at least I think that's how it works) and that the more matter, or magic, the less effect the chorae would have.

Ok, but maybe chorae are just analogous to antimatter in some ways, but not as closely as most stuff (like say positive and negative charge = matter and antimatter), and I'm just over-analyzing. Alright, it's a little more firm than a maybe...OK SHUT UP SELF! view post

OK, this is stupid, but... posted 06 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionOK, this is stupid, but... by Holsety, Candidate

What was I before I got that first little glyph letter thing shaded in? Like, before I was candidate? view post

Eragon posted 06 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionEragon by Holsety, Candidate

Ok, seriously, I just have to say...I don't care if a work is unoriginal. Well, I care, but I can deal with a lack of originality. It's widely acknowledged that most good authors steal stuff from other authors, and a lot of writing is influenced by other authors. I'm not saying this is universal, or that any author who doesn't steal is bad...but it's not a problem to steal ideas, as long as you apply them effectively and produce something else. You should at least acknowledge people if a person's idea made up an absolutely crucial aspect of your work and you're aware of it, but frankly I doubt anyone can be sure of everyone who has influenced their work.

You don't even have to beat your predecessors. But Eragon sucks. Besides being unoriginal, it's just not good. It doesn't do anything particularly interesting with the fantasy genre. It's worse than its successors (at least, those I've read and seem to have ties to it) in pretty much every way.

I don't know why, but I also read Eldest, which was also really bad. My least favorite part is when Eragon gets super-powers. Basically, he trains at an elf kingdom for a year, and he's still weaker and more useless than pretty much any of the elves. So then this tree transforms him during a ceremony and he's magically stronger and better. Basically, the author's point seemed to be that hard work and willpower do fairly little, but if you've got a kickass destiny and can find a magic tree, you'll become a hero of the ages. view post

OK, this is stupid, but... posted 07 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionOK, this is stupid, but... by Holsety, Candidate


I'm just guessing since you have 2 glyph-things. view post

Music..not generally... posted 08 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionMusic..not generally... by Holsety, Candidate

Ya, I have to agree with Warrior-Poet; very generally...people are not all the same, so different people like different music.

My favorite song is probably Gambler's Blue's by Josh White (it's an older version of the better known St James Infirmary Blues. The song itself has a number of different possible interpretations; I've always thought of White's version as a sort of lonely, bitter, grudging farewell (as though his dead lover is leaving him for another man; the coldness of her body is more of an emotional distance).

Another great version of the St. James Infirmary Blues is by Louis Armstrong. It's a little less raw and painful than White's version to my ears, which is only White with vocals and guitar, but it's still great...but the singing always seems less powerful than the sax in his version. His interpretation is more straightforwardly mournful.

Generally I like Jazz more than Blues, though. A (very) small collection of my favorite artists are Ahmad Jamal, Herbie Hancock, Thelonious Monk, Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Mose Allison. Of those, Allison and Jamal are probably my favorites.

I also like country, though I don't have as diverse a knowledge of the musicians. Ray Wylie Hubbard, John Prine, Johnny Cash, Hot Club of Cowtown, Marty Stuart, Jesse Winchester (classified as rock but I think of him as country), Townes Van Zandt are some of the ones who come to mind. view post

Help with finding stuff... posted 18 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHelp with finding stuff... by Holsety, Candidate

This request for help isn't really specific to TTT, but I feel like what I'm looking for is mostly in there.

Anyway, if anyone can give either page numbers or general approximations of passages talking about &quot;self-moving souls&quot; and such, that'd help a lot. I'll go looking in a day or two myself if no one has a clue, I'll put them up on here as well in case anyone is interested in the reference. view post

The Aspect-Emperor posted 24 March 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by Holsety, Candidate

It is an interesting point you make about the characters and their relationships deciding the future of Earwa. This is one of the central themes that is explored in the series (and in many of my other favourites). Does a man control his own path or are events determined by destiny, the gods or in this case - the darkness that comes before. The question of fate vs free will.

I just want to thing I've liked about Bakker's work is that the Inchoroi and the evil guys are...IMO sort of overshadowed by the core cast of characters. view post


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