the archives
dusted off in read-only
dusted off in read-only
I love your books. Now that that is out of the way, I would like to ask a question regarding how the Consult, as an organization, fits with the themes and inverted archetypes present in PON. You have said that, in creating your characters, you intended to change or invert typical fantasy archetypes-- the fearless barbarian, the wizard guide, etc. In this, you have succeeded. Why, then, did you decide to make the Consult a stereotypical, and entirely unsympathetic, "Evil Organization"? While the Consult (its leaders, mysteries, and methods and means) is well-developed and interesting, it seems one of the few parts of your work that bows almost entirely to accepted fantasy convention, and, as such, stands out. view post
Some great ideas here-- it certainly wouldn't surprise me if the Consult's motivations and goals went far deeper than we have seen so far. However, while what you have put forth may explain the Consult's destructive and subjectively "evil" actions, I don't see these motivations challenging the Consult's position as "The Evil Organization" (at least relative to the other characters and the rest of the Three Seas). Perhaps Mr. Bakker decided that the presence of a "The Dark Lord and his Minions" stereotype is required for any high fantasy work, even in an experimental and dark series such as this. Without it, the work would be too far distant from the fantasy norm with which we are all familiar, and the other inversions (character archetypes, overall tone) would be lost. view post
An excellent reply. I accept that there can be no objective moral criteria to determine which character or group is "good" or "evil", but this really has little bearing on the position of the groups or characters in the plot of the novel. For example, just 'cause one can determine Sauron's justification or rationale for why he wants to destroy all that is good in Lord of the Rings does not change his position as "Evil Antagonist". When I said that the Consult is an archetypical "Evil Organization", I referred to its place in the plot, not his claim to pure evil as an ideal. I see, however, that you agree with the possibility that, without a nebulous "bad guy", the books would be too inaccessible for the other inversions to be effective. It certainly sounds like a plausible explanation. view post
I suppose that makes sense, seeing as the other (character) inversions do not fundamentally change the position of the characters in a traditional fantasy plot, but rather serve to add a new dimension to those character archetypes. For example, Kellhus's abilities and manipulative tendencies do not prevent him from still serving the role of the "boy who would be king" or the savior-protagonist, but rather simply add a new dimension to an old fantasy role. In the same way, I suppose the Consult and Inchoroi could still serve the place of the "Evil Organization" without succumbing to the stereotypical motivations (or lack thereof) of most fantasy "Evil Organizations". But it still seems to me that the Consult's goals and motivations are much closer to accepted fantasy norms and archetypes than are the other characters and concepts in PON. view post
I might be wrong, but I think that only a minority of Nonmen hang out with the Scranc and Ichoroi-- they aren't univerally aligned with the other "evil" dudes. view post
Give....me.....TTT! view post
Cnauir was gay? OMG I hate the PON now! Yeah, just cause Bakker didn't put a billboard up saying "Cnauir was seduced by Moengus" doesn't mean that he didn't fairly clearly suggest to the reader that he was. You could, however, read it so that it was just a platonic relationship between the two, which was mistaken for a homosexual relationship by the other members of the clan, if you wanted to. Bakker probably left it open on purpose. view post
They had had a sexual relationship. I thought this was fairly evident even in the first book-- the events in TTT (namely Cnaiur's rape of Conphas and the end scene) just make it explicit. The kiss was likely BOTH a means to an end and a product of his true feelings. Without this paradox born of Cnaiur's insanity, Moengus would have realized what Cnaiur intended before he was murdered. Cnaiur's mental state allowed him to act essentially on a whim, making his actions unpredictable and unreadable. view post
As for the first question, it would seem that Chorae do survive after use. Otherwise, there likely wouldn't be very many left in the Three Seas. view post
That's an excellent point. The Harbringer doesn't nessessarily need to DO anything. Rather, the title implies that he is a sign of the impending conflict. We know that Kellhus, and perhaps Maithanet, will play roles in the coming Apocalypse, but that has little to do with whether they are Harbringers. view post
The last line of TTT was great. Makes one wonder what is in store for Akka and really shows the extent to which he is totally alone. Akka really steals the show at the end of TTT, in my opinion. Oh, and did anyone find they were rooting for Kellhus at least a little less once it is revealed that he really IS a prophet, and is not merely playing the part? Somehow I liked it when it seemed that he was just leading everyone on. view post