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Cnaiür Peralogue | joined 13 August 2008 | 70 posts


sranc posted 14 August 2008 in The Darkness That Comes Beforesranc by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Sranc = el chupacabras.

Hairless, greyish, dog-like creatures that if they stood on their hind legs would be about 4-5 feet tall. They are supposedly viscous and relentless in nature. The name alone means "goatsucker/goateater". They attack livestock, mainly goats, and drink their blood with a side order of goat steak.

I suspect that's where Scott got the influence. Well, that's how I see the Sranc as: genetically enhanced albino chupacabras

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/chupa/chupacabras.dwt">http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/chupa/chupacabras.dwt</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.crystalinks.com/chupacabras.html">http://www.crystalinks.com/chupacabras.html</a><!-- m --> view post


Names and Pronunciation posted 14 August 2008 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeNames and Pronunciation by Cnaiür, Peralogue

It would be fantastic if Scott could produce some audio to properly pronounce the names and words used in his books. He does provide some basic examples we can work with, but its not good enough! I can only suspect Scott wants us to use our own methods of pronunciations, based on our own language backgrounds.
If I had something of mine published and released, and fans came up to me pronouncing all the names and words wrong, I would get seriously annoyed! I would find myself wanting to correct them each and every time. A time-waster! Hide, Scott, hide! If I ever meet you I will maul you down Kellhus closed-fist style for proper pronunciations. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: -->

Anyways...

Based on his examples and my language background these are some of the rules I use, and how I pronounce some of the names:


û = long u sound.

au = separate into 2 syllables, like ah-oo (oo like moon and spoon)

ai = long i sound

ei = long a sound

oi = oy (boy, toy)

y = (the tricky one) if its paired with a vowel, then its a long e sound (like meal, reel), and its also its own syllable. The vowel its paired with gets pronounced separately. If its alone in-between consonants its a short i sound (skill, shit, pick). If it precedes paired vowels or is in-between vowels, it is its own consonant sound (yes, yellow)

j = the j sound I use no traditional English method. Its either a consonant 'y' sound, or a revving j sound. Say shhhhhhh as in shut-up. Now rev that shhhh HARD, like water flowing aggresively, like a car revving HARD. (I'll use jjj to capture that revving j sound). I suspect its also used as a long e sound in certain words, like Cironj. (See-ron-nee?)

i = I mainly turn it into a long e sound, with some exceptions.


Dûnyain = Dune-yen
Gilcûnya = Gill-coon-nee-ah
Mog-Pharau = Mog Fah-ra-oo
Paro Inrau = Pa-row In-ra-oo ('pa' as in ma and pa, the short a sound. The same with 'ra')
(Imperial) Saik = Sike (although I sometimes wonder if its 'sake' - They are there for the Imperial's sake. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->)
Mysunsai = Me-sun-sigh
Isûphiryas = Ee-sue-fee-ree-us
Scylvendi = skill-ven-dee
Inchoroi = Een-kor-roy
Cûnuroi = Koo-nuh-roy ('nuh' like mud, nothing/nuh-thing, the short u sound)
Aujic = Ah-oo-jjj-ick
Ainoni = Eye-non-nee
Sheyic = Shay-yick
Kyranean = Kee-ra-nee-en ('en' is like saying the letter 'n')
Kyraneas = Kee-ra-nee-es ('es' is like saying the letter 's')
Kûniüric = Koo-nee-yur-rick
Kûniüri = Koo-nee-yur-ee
Ikurei = Ee-kur-ray
Istriya = Ee-stree-yah
Xerius = Zee-ree-us (like serious, as he always is <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> )
Conphas = Conf-es ('es' is like saying the letter 's')
Nansur = Nan-sir ('sir' like purr)
Skeaös = Skay-yose
Seökti = Say-yoke-tee
Mallahet = pronounced as its spelled; Mal-la-het
Conriya = Con-ree-yah
Nersei Proyas = Nair-say Proy-es
Krijates Ximenus = Kree-yaht-es Zee-men-us ('yaht' pronounced like the boat 'yacht')
Tydonni = Tie Domi <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> Otherwise, Ti-don-nee ('ti' like tit)


Now here are ones I'm really at a loss:

Cironj = See-ron-nee?
Jiünati = jjj-ee-you-na-tee? Or is that j silent? Ee-you-na-tee

Eärwa = If it wasn't for that umlaut ä I would pronounce it as Ah-yar-wah ('yar' like yard without the d)
Eänna = If it wasn't for that umlaut ä I would pronounce it as Ah-yah-nah
Thoti Eännorean = Thot-ee Ah-yah-nor-ree-en
Eleäzaras = El-ah-yah-zar-as ('zar' like star)

I think that Eä would sound as ay, the long a sound, or more like Eh! like Canadians say eh? Eh? Eh!-rrr-wah??? Eh!-nnn-nah???
Or, long e, then the eh! sound. Like Ee-eh! E. Eh! Sports. Ee-ehrr-wah? Ee-ehn-nah?


Have any of you heard Scott pronounce Eärwa?

I also would like to check out some of your pronunciations to these words. Perhaps we could build a pronunciation lexicon. Even move it over to that wiki (good idea) someone started up. Until Scott ever decides to do audio recordings. view post


Took me a bit...l posted 14 August 2008 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeTook me a bit...l by Cnaiür, Peralogue

When I first purchased The Darkness That Comes Before in mid-2003 I was sucked into a world and writing style like no other I've ever experienced. Just the prelude alone took a few days and a handful of reads. Such exquisiteness I wanted to laminate and frame each paragraph. Such depth of character I could smell their liver and pancreas. I was trying to savour every word and sentence strung together. I was flipping pages with such delicate care in fear they would crumble just by the intensity of what was written (or what was resonating throughout all of me). This sentence alone on pg. 5, &quot;The mountain breeze was bitter with the smell of bruised pine.&quot; rabbit-holed me into memories of Europe where all I remember of the smells there were cow shit and bruised pine. Bruised pine! It was then and there I knew I was holding onto something incredible. Even with a full-time job, the grind of daily responsibilities, and gf issues (vivid images of Scylvendi discipline flashed before my soul's eye) I always found some space and time to submerge myself in-between those pages.

Chapter 12 is when I put the book down. Not because I lost interest. No. It was because that entire chapter struck profound blow after blow within me. I reached a point I became so overwhelmed I could no longer proceed any further. I recall spending the next 2-3 weeks in a hypnotic state thinking about nothing else except those words, those sentences, those paragraphs. And placing them in the context of life, my life. I felt like I was awake. Like an intense yearning was spiraling within me, through me. It was like living in a dream within a dream within a dream, like being more awake then I've ever been, and like standing outside myself and everything else. But, then an even more strange thing occurred. The gf issues were solved and I was getting laid again. That dream-like wakefulness all ended days after having non-stop make-up sex, so much I was left yoked and braindead. I swear, it was like all that profoundness and wakefulness blew out of my cock and into warm oblivion, leaving me cold and hollow. I began thinking about living the Ghandi life. The life of celibacy. If nirvana ends with spilling the seed, then I will never spill mine when I reach nirvana. I was sacked. I felt raped of something wonderful. But I digress......

Now, over 5 years and 100 books later, I have finally picked up TDTCB to absorb it once again, this time determined to read it the whole way through. I've started from the beginning and its still as fresh and new as ever. Still as profound and moving. I'm still feeling those waves of sensations in my body from time to time. This is how stories should be! I've reached pg. 500 and still going strong!

It took me a bit.... a long bit... but after my experiences through and in-between reads I just might mark my arm with a swazond after I'm done with this one. Even go as far as a swazond for each book! <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post


Names and Pronunciation posted 15 August 2008 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeNames and Pronunciation by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> It's funny this topic should spring back to life today, actually -- I was just (procrastinating from real work or writing) by musing over issues of orthography and pronunciation for names in my little fiction project (being an extremely slow, amateur, and unpublished but grimly determined would-be author). <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> [/quote:3itd6cbd]

I've been writing a book for 18 years and I've yet to complete chapter 1. How's that for a handicapped snail's pace. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> I'm also determined to complete it, along with all the others I've scribbled up.
But, really, when you come across a book like TDTCB, it becomes both discouraging and inspiring to write. It pissed me off so much I grow more determined! <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: -->

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

I think, once upon a time, I would have been horrified were I an author and people pronounced my characters' names wrongly. Nowadays ... I think I'd just be happy they'd bought my book and were pronouncing the names at all! Still ... I do ponder how to write names in ways that will be more or less transparent to English-speakers unaccustomed to seeing diacritics or &quot;funny&quot; letters (not to mention publishers reluctant to print them!) and without doing too much violence to the &quot;real&quot; pronunciation. There are always a few vowels and consonants that I just can't decide what to do with! [/quote:3itd6cbd]

Stick them in there. A book to decipher and discover and continuously learn from is a great book indeed. I've read many times most publishers want easy readable 'write-for-the-market' type of material, for those people who enjoy an easy read, and familiar topics, and no strange characters. English only. (isn't the iq and attention span of many in the U.S. extremely lower nowadays? <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> I have no pity). This is why we have troll trash like Stephen King and Chuck Palahniuk (Fight Club was 100 times better than the book, and that was his best book!!! Yet he sells sells sells. It boggles me and bothers me.)

But, then there are the other kinds of people. The more intellectual who prefer intellectual reads. The ones who want a challenging read, in various aspects. The ones who want all these materials that appears advanced and unfamiliar to them, yet they would still enjoy.

Then again, I'm no successful writer or publisher, so what do I know. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->
I just know I like challenging and gripping reads, books I can savor and remember. Books that can resonate loud and long enough I research, study, and learn whatever it was I got out of it, so I can get more from it. And most importantly, perhaps the most important thing of all (for me), books with characters so real I can smell them off the pages, and character interaction so real its like I am present listening, watching.
Without either, the book is a fucking bore. Like every story I've ever read by Arthur C. Clarke, save one.

Anyhow, moving on....


Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:3itd6cbd
au = separate into 2 syllables, like ah-oo (oo like moon and spoon)[/quote:3itd6cbd]
Hmmm, why not a diphthong as with your interpretation for ai (&quot;ai = long i sound&quot;), like /au/ (English &quot;ow&quot; as in &quot;cow&quot;)? I'd be more naturally inclined to go with a diphthong unless there were something like a diaeresis (¨) over one of the vowels (e.g. aü), marking it as being in hiatus (as done in, say, Occitan). [/quote:3itd6cbd]

My base for pronunciations is to step away from English as much as I can. In English, 'au' would be pronounced like a short o sound, like doll, hall, aura, awe, and so forth. I'll always remember an African man I once worked with that pronounced the 'au' as 2 separate syllables, ah-oo, That's ah-oo-ten-tik (authentic). Ah-oo-straw-lee-ah (Australia). I found it amusing then. And very fitting for Bakker's world. So I've stuck with it.

[edited add] The only exception is Cishaurim = See-shar-rim (shar like tar, bar. In this case, the 'u' is not pronounced, it just adds a lengthier 'r' sound)

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:3itd6cbd
y = (the tricky one) if its paired with a vowel, then its a long e sound (like meal, reel), and its also its own syllable. The vowel its paired with gets pronounced separately. If its alone in-between consonants its a short i sound (skill, shit, pick). If it precedes paired vowels or is in-between vowels, it is its own consonant sound (yes, yellow)[/quote:3itd6cbd]
I do agonize over the use of &quot;y&quot;. I really want something to represent the vowel /y/ as the u in French chute or the ü in German Blüte, but since this vowel doesn't even exist in English, I know that wouldn't be at all transparent to English-speaking readers. Up to this point, I've only dared deploy &quot;y&quot; as a consonant /j/ as in English &quot;yes&quot;, though I am sure you are right that Scott is using it as both a consonant and vowel -- and, yeah, at a guess maybe kind of /i/ vowel, either long or short. [/quote:3itd6cbd]

Always the tricky letter. One must hear it vocalized to know its proper sound in a word.

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:3itd6cbd
j = the j sound I use no traditional English method. Its either a consonant 'y' sound, or a revving j sound. Say shhhhhhh as in shut-up. Now rev that shhhh HARD, like water flowing aggresively, like a car revving HARD. (I'll use jjj to capture that revving j sound). I suspect its also used as a long e sound in certain words, like Cironj. (See-ron-nee?)[/quote:3itd6cbd]
Actually, though my background is in Germanic languages where &quot;j&quot; is /j/ and I live in a Spanish-speaking country where &quot;j&quot; is more like /h/ , I'm actually more inclined to see Scott's &quot;j&quot; as something more like the typical English &quot;j&quot; in &quot;judge&quot; (as a /dʒ/). After all, why use &quot;j&quot; for the /j/ sound of English &quot;yes&quot; when its seems he is already using &quot;y&quot; itself for that sound? Scott's use of final &quot;j&quot; as in &quot;Cironj&quot; actually makes me think of Turkish final -c, pronounced as a /dʒ/, just like English &quot;j&quot; in &quot;judge&quot;. Though your &quot;rev'd shhhh&quot; sound is interesting; it makes me think of the Castilian Spanish /x/ for &quot;j&quot;, or maybe even the earlier Spanish /ʃ/ (English &quot;sh&quot;) pronunciation of &quot;x&quot; -- or even the elusive Swedish &quot;sje&quot; sound (/ɧ/). Egotistically, I still personally think like that j = /dʒ/ (&quot;j&quot; in &quot;judge&quot;) is more likely, but I kind of like the idea for you &quot;j&quot; interpretation. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I kind of like the idea of &quot;j&quot; as /i:/ (long i) as well, though I'm not sure its the case here. [/quote:3itd6cbd]

My Brasilian and Portuguese backgrounds rev that j up in every word I know. Ex. January = Janeiro. Janeiro is pronounced jjj-ah-nay-rrr-oo (the r is also revved up, very much like a loud cat's purr. ). Even the g gets revved up from time to time. Its a unique step away from English. Cironj was the only word I considered using the j sound, just like you stated. Like Judge. George. See-ron-ge.

[edited add] What about jnan? I'm at a loss for that one, and just pronounce it as ye-nan.

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:3itd6cbd
Dûnyain = Dune-yen
Gilcûnya = Gill-coon-nee-ah[/quote:3itd6cbd]
Here, for example, I be tempted to interpret Scott's &quot;y&quot; as /j/ (&quot;y&quot; in &quot;yes&quot;) in both of these names: /du:njain/ and /gilcu:ɲa/ (interpreting the &quot;ny&quot; combination in the latter as something like the Spanish &quot;ñ&quot;).
[/quote:3itd6cbd]

That's interesting. You just opened up a door for me. Tie that in with the long i sound for &quot;ai&quot; and Dûnyain would sound Doon-njine, with a hard inflection on the 'nj' sound
Gilcûnya was tricky. I first pronounced it with a revved J (most Portuguese words that begin with 'gi' are pronounced with a revved j). Jjj-ill-coon-yah.
I do believe you're onto something more precise with the 'ny' pairing being pronounced as you stated. It creates a great harsh inflection I can imagine being used in Bakker's world. Gill-coo-njah.
Cironj = See-ron-nge.


Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Oh, but what about that &quot;ph&quot;? Yeah, it's probably just an orthographic variant for &quot;f&quot; to look more cool <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> but wouldn't it be fun if it were a aspirated /p/ like Ancient Greek letter phi? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->[/quote:3itd6cbd]

Mog Pharau = P-ha-row? the p and h separated like in the word up-hill? Tres cool. How about P-ha-ra-oo. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->
Scott probably just pronounces it as Pharoah. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: -->

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:3itd6cbd
Inchoroi = Een-kor-roy[/quote:3itd6cbd]
Now here I would have gone with &quot;ch&quot; as typical English &quot;ch&quot; as in &quot;church&quot;. For you predicted pronunciation, I would have expected a spelling simply with &quot;k&quot;.
In my own project's spelling conventions, I've been using plain &quot;c&quot; to stand for typical English &quot;ch&quot; as in &quot;church&quot; (as in Italian). I realize &quot;ch&quot; would be more obvious to English-speakers, but ... I?ve just shied away from &quot;ch&quot; for some reason! Whenever I've tried it, I've been unhappy with the &quot;look&quot;. Scott's &quot;c&quot; seems likely to just be an orthographic variation of &quot;k&quot;, though. (Unless he's got something enormously funky going on in in names like &quot;Cnaiür&quot;!) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->[/quote:3itd6cbd]

No 'ch' sounds as in church. I personally want to stay away from it. Even if the 'ch' as in church is really Scott's intention. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
I will try to do a better job visualizing my pronunciation. Inchoroi = ink-hor-oy ('ink' like the english word, 'hor' like whore but with a really light stress on the h, 'oy' like boy and toy)

[edited add] Chorae = Kor-rye-ee (the long e cut short)

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:3itd6cbd
Kûniüric = Koo-nee-yur-rick
Kûniüri = Koo-nee-yur-ee[/quote:3itd6cbd]
These spellings make me think Scott is using the diaeresis (¨) to mark hiatus, the separation of two vowels: /ku:.ni.ur/ and perhaps /ku:.ni.u.rik/. Though of course a disyllabic /i.u/ or similar construction with initial /i/ before another vowel in hiatus will easily change into /i.ju/, so we could (in a future version of the languge!) even end up with something like /ku:.ɲur/
[/quote:3itd6cbd]

I think I got this one correct: Koo-nee-yur-rick and Koo-nee-yur-ee with very little emphasis on the -nee- as if its barely pronounced. I guess it would be like this: Kooni-yur-ick and Kooni-yur-ee
Although, I do wonder if there is a y sound right after the K, like K-you-nee-yur-ick. Like literally saying the letter Q. Q-nee-yur-ick.




Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:3itd6cbd

Jiünati = jjj-ee-you-na-tee? Or is that j silent? Ee-you-na-tee[/quote:3itd6cbd]
Yeah, here is where I think j = /dʒ/ (&quot;j&quot; in &quot;judge&quot;) solve those problems neatly (if mundanely!).[/quote:3itd6cbd]

You could be right. But think it like this. How would the Scylvendi pronounce it and how would, say, the Ainoni pronounce it. The Scylvendi probably use the hard 'g' sound, while the Ainoni use the revved j, or just silence the j. Very much like how Portuguese use the hard g and the revved j for the letter &quot;G&quot; while the Spanish silence the &quot;G&quot;. And both are so close together in land and language they're like big brother and little brother to each other in the Iberian peninsula.

Which makes me think if that's the reason why Scott will not create pronunciation audio for us. One method of pronunciation for one race/group of people could be entirely different than the pronunciation of the next race/group of people, in the context of his world.

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:3itd6cbd
Eleäzaras = El-ah-yah-zar-as ('zar' like star)[/quote:3itd6cbd]
Why &quot;zar&quot; as &quot;star&quot; rather than &quot;tsar&quot;? [/quote:3itd6cbd]

Like err and in error?? like how the French pronounce zero? like czar. Ell-ah-yah-czar-as That's actually very fitting! But I'm still at a loss for Eä. I personally like Ah-yaaaaah. Like Kung-fu.

But from Scott's use of 'E' in Serwë, the 'e' could be the same, a long 'a' sound (hay, may, day) so eä would be ay-yaaaah

Or like what I suggested earlier, the Canadian's use the word 'eh', which is very much like a long 'a' sound, but cut short. Scott is Canadian! And he could very well be intentionally inserting the 'eh' sound in 'eä' for the sake of his Canadian heritage.

Sooo....

Eärwa = eh-yaaaah-rrr-wah
Eänna = eh-yaaaah-nnn-nah

Eleäzaras = Ell-eh-yaaah-zerr-as


Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

I am one of those madmen who reads the appendices of Lord of the Rings for fun. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> [/quote:3itd6cbd]

You truly are a madman. <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3itd6cbd

If the publishers balk at putting in appendices, I'd love to see such info go on the Web site. And if Scott hasn't got a pile of notes on this stuff, if he has just &quot;made it up&quot;, then he's done an excellent job at faking a very realistic looking multilingual milieu! <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: -->[/quote:3itd6cbd]

I doubt he's faking it. He stated it took him 13 years to put together TDTCB. And his areas of education speak for themselves. This man is steeped!


I'm glad you responded to this topic. Keep it coming. We'll do Scott's job for us. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> view post


Names and Pronunciation posted 15 August 2008 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeNames and Pronunciation by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Actually, it would really help to know Scott's background, and the languages he learned, so it can narrow down the realm of pronunciations for us all.

How about one of you forum admins who is close to Scott ask about those things. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> Or else this rash Scylvendi bastard might have to unsheathe his sword and mark a couple of swazonds seconds afterwards. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post


Blogcritics Magazine interview with Scott Bakker 06-12-2008 posted 15 August 2008 in Interviews and ReviewsBlogcritics Magazine interview with Scott Bakker 06-12-2008 by Cnaiür, Peralogue

I couldn't find a post for this interview anywhere on the forum. Here it is.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/06/12/075919.php">http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/06/12/075919.php</a><!-- m -->




[img:upo6icdd]http&#58;//blogs&#46;epicindia&#46;com/leapinthedark/Scott%20Bakker&#46;jpg[/img:upo6icdd] view post


Midnight sufferings posted 16 August 2008 in Member Written WorksMidnight sufferings by Cnaiür, Peralogue

That's some good hopeless romantic material. Well written. I really enjoyed it. view post


Names and Pronunciation posted 16 August 2008 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeNames and Pronunciation by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

Sounds about right! I think I officially decided I would write a proper novel in 1995. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> I've made it through more than a chapter, but it's been a learning process, and I've often found myself what I thought was a long way in, but then deciding things were not right, and starting over again. I think the first few paragraphs of my most recent drafts are still largely the same as when I began -- but everything else has moved and shifted and usually changed utterly! <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> [/quote:1qxfotaw]

Sounds like you're meticulous like me. I have chunks written, but from time to time I go back and change a word here, add a sentence there, its always like I'm never satisfied. I've realized this can be a deadly trap, so I've placed my main story in dormancy months ago (it'll always be my prime story until its complete <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->), and moved on to scribbling up a couple of other ones.


Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

I've done lots of writing over the years, but never imposed much structure, so now I'm trying to think carefully about outlines and plans ... a skeleton over which to paint flesh, layer by layer .... [/quote:1qxfotaw]

imho, it's always best to create the skeleton of the story first. From the beginning to the very end. Draw it up like Achamian's map. The rest of the journey is to add everything else.

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

Yes, after reading TDTCB, I decided I could at least get away with a few diaeresis and circumflex marks. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I do know many readers find that sort of thing distracting, but I like to think it adds a little &quot;seasoning&quot;.[/quote:1qxfotaw]
Do you eat your salad plain? Without the oil or vinegar or salt or dressing? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

I do think I'll use the circumflex to sporadically mark long vowels where I think an English speaker might otherwise pronounce them short (e.g. to encourage something written dûk to be pronounced more like French duc than English &quot;duck&quot;), and likewise I think I'll use the diaeresis sporadically to mark out vowels as separate syllables where I think English speakers might otherwise pronounce them as a diphthong in combo with an adjacent vowel (as in French Noël, &quot;no-ehl&quot;) or as silent (e.g. to distinguish something like winë, &quot;wihn-eh&quot; from English &quot;wine&quot;). Not flawless techniques, of course, but they will add occasionaly &quot;visual interest&quot;, if nothing else, and will perhaps remind people that they are not looking at English-language environments.

Still, I intend to try to stick reasonably closely to usages that will work for English-speakers. I think I must use &quot;y&quot; for /j/ (the &quot;y&quot; of English &quot;yes&quot;), and &quot;j&quot; for /dʒ/ (&quot;j&quot; in &quot;judge&quot;). I have flirted with using &quot;dg&quot; or &quot;dj&quot; for /dʒ/ (&quot;dg&quot; in &quot;judge&quot;!), but I wonder whether spelling a word pronounced like English &quot;judge&quot; as either dgudg or djudj would be too weird? Though, actually djudj as a kind of pleasantly exotic look to it .... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Still, I don't think I need the letter &quot;j&quot; for anything else, so I don't really dj instead of just plain j for the &quot;j&quot; in &quot;judge&quot;.

Being set on &quot;y&quot; for /j/ (the &quot;y&quot; of English &quot;yes&quot;), that makes it straightforward to use &quot;ny&quot; and &quot;ly&quot; for what Portuguese would write nh and lh or Spanish would write ñ and ll. My pain remains in whether to admit &quot;y&quot; to represent that elusive /y/ vowel as in French chute or German Blüte? So far, my decision has been &quot;no&quot;, since I'm pretty sure English speakers would simply pronounce a &quot;y&quot; vowel as a /ai/ diphthong (as in English &quot;why&quot;) or possibly a long i vowel (as in English place-names like &quot;Shelby&quot;), and I can't use a German-style &quot;ü&quot; either, since I'm pretty sure I want the diaeresis to distinguish syllabication in vowels. And since that /y/ vowel is not terribly Anglophone, I think I'll to abandon marking it distinctly, and simply write it as an &quot;i&quot; or a &quot;u&quot; ... probably just &quot;i&quot;, since I'm actually not very happy with the look of the letter &quot;u&quot; in names where I would like a /y/ vowel.[/quote:1qxfotaw]

Balance is crucial.
Imho, balance must be struck between writing for yourself and writing for an audience. Put in everything you want, then balance it out -change it- with what you think would work best for the reader.
In your scenario, it would probably help greatly to add an appendix for proper pronunciations (more thorough than Scott's. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->)

Then again, mystery breeds faith and devotion. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Just look at us here on this topic.

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:1qxfotaw
My Brasilian and Portuguese backgrounds rev that j up in every word I know. Ex. January = Janeiro. Janeiro is pronounced jjj-ah-nay-rrr-oo (the r is also revved up, very much like a loud cat's purr. ).[/quote:1qxfotaw]
Ah, I think I'm with you now -- basically a /ʒ/, like the like the French &quot;j&quot; in joue or a bit like the sound of &quot;si&quot; in English &quot;vision&quot;. Yeah, even though I'm thinking like an English &quot;j&quot; in &quot;judge&quot;, I think I'd be happy with your Portuguese &quot;j&quot;, too. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Only a few steps away, in a sense![/quote:1qxfotaw]

You hit the nail on the head. That revved j I speak of is exactly like the English word 'vision', and 'fusion'.

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

Yeah, in a way, I'm seeing that &quot;ny&quot; in Scott's &quot;Gilcûnya&quot; and &quot;Dûnyain&quot; as something like a Portuguese nh. So, in Portuguese orthpgraphy .... like a &quot;Guilcunha&quot; and &quot;Dunhain&quot;, perhaps! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> [/quote:1qxfotaw]

Another nail you hit. I use the Portuguese 'nha' manner of pronouncing the 'nya' in Gilcûnya: But that sound works best with the 'k' sound preceding it, like cunha, and picanha, etc.... But not in words like Dûnyain.

Since writing in this topic I've decided to revert back to my original method of pronouncing Gilcûnya with the revved j. Jjj-ill-cunha. For me, it just seems more appropriate. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->



Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:1qxfotaw
Although, I do wonder if there is a y sound right after the K [in Kûniüric], like K-you-nee-yur-ick. Like literally saying the letter Q. Q-nee-yur-ick.[/quote:1qxfotaw]
Ah, though that would be a very &quot;Anglophone&quot; style pronunciation, as that added /j/ before long /u:/ is a particularly English-language thing -- like the typical English-speaker's pronunciation of &quot;Cuba&quot; as /kju:bə/, whereas a Spanish speaker would say /ku:βa/. Thus, I think I lean away from that &quot;K-you-&quot; pronunciation, as I would expect to see that actually written &quot;Kyûniüric&quot;. [/quote:1qxfotaw]

True. The Q sound is too &quot;anglophone&quot; as you put it. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> It was just a curious thought.

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:1qxfotaw
But think it like this. How would the Scylvendi pronounce it and how would, say, the Ainoni pronounce it. The Scylvendi probably use the hard 'g' sound, while the Ainoni use the revved j, or just silence the j. Very much like how Portuguese use the hard g and the revved j for the letter &quot;G&quot; while the Spanish silence the &quot;G&quot;. And both are so close together in land and language they're like big brother and little brother to each other in the Iberian peninsula.
Which makes me think if that's the reason why Scott will not create pronunciation audio for us. One method of pronunciation for one race/group of people could be entirely different than the pronunciation of the next race/group of people, in the context of his world. [/quote:1qxfotaw]
Though are we assuming that the Scylvendi and Ainoni are all encountering these names in a literate context -- that is, they see the name written down and are trying to pronounce it in accordance with their &quot;standard orthographies&quot; -- or are they encountering these names in an oral context -- that is, hearing a name spoken that we (as obligated readers in this situation) are seeing represented as Scott writes it on the page in some orthography or another? I would guess the latter, such that Scott is showing us the name written as someone in Eärwa would write it (or in transliteration or transcription from whatever script system they use <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->) and characters from outside the speech community associated with that orthography simply do their best to reproduce the name as it is spoken to them, rather than pronounce a name that they see written ....[/quote:1qxfotaw]

Using the Scylvendi was a bad example. They don't read nor write. Its only tribal symbols and colours, and swazonds for them. One reason Cnaiür despises the world of men is because they put &quot;breath on parchment&quot;. In terms of oral, I use the African person I worked with as this example. Even though people tried to correct him with his pronunciation of 'authentic', he would always say it in his African manner. Each race and group of people have their unique ways of pronunciation no matter what. Also, some group of people can't even do certain pronunciations no matter what. For example, their are many groups/races of people not able to do the &quot;th&quot; sound no matter how hard they try. Words like thick, three, through will always be pronounced as tick, tree, true.
So.. once again, I elude to Scott not doing these pronunciation audio files because he doesn't want to cement the pronunciations, when the words could very well be pronounced differently to each reader with their language background, and to the characters themselves and their language backgrounds.

It would probably be best if Scott could give us some cross-referencing info on real languages to the PoN languages. On real groups of people to the ones in PoN.
Right now I can only assume the cross-referencing with my limited history and language knowledge. <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:1qxfotaw

Mmmm, more musings and ramblings! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> [/quote:1qxfotaw]

<!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> view post


Midnight sufferings posted 17 August 2008 in Member Written WorksMidnight sufferings by Cnaiür, Peralogue

I thought it was good as it is, as a short story. No more adding, just polishing. I thought you ended the story well... to me it carried a little mystery. Was he heading back home to sulk? Going elsewhere to drink some more, in a more private area where no one can bother him? Was he going to try to change himself for the better? Was he going back to April again? Was he going to off himself? I enjoy story endings that keep my mind continuing the story. Your story did that to me. view post


Review of Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman posted 17 August 2008 in ReviewsReview of Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Garbage. Not even worthy of a paper weight. Not even worthy of being sold to a used bookstore. It sits at the bottom of a box of old books I have so I never have to see it again. If I ever need paper to get a fireplace fire going I know where to look. The second book I read by Gaiman, and I'm most adamantly certain its the last one too. view post


Nothing against female Fantasy authors but... posted 17 August 2008 in Literature DiscussionNothing against female Fantasy authors but... by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Chyndonax&quot;:ryt1sb5z
Am I the only one who has trouble getting into their works. It seems like every time I try and get into a book by a female fantasy or sf author I can't. It just isn't interesting at all to me.

Anyone else feel the same?

And Diane Duane is the exception here. She's a fun read.[/quote:ryt1sb5z]

You shot yourself in the foot with that last sentence. I wish I was here back when you started this topic so I could shoot your other foot.

In comparison to male sf writers, the women sf writers are a tiny minority. And of all those male sf writers how many do you really enjoy? Probably a tiny minority. As many as there are women sf writers in the business.

Here's a couple names I have found to be excellent. Ursula Le Guin and Marion Zimmer Bradley.
For me, MZB is a champion at telling a story. Imho, she blows away almost everyone in the sf/fantasy arena (and outside it), whether they have testicles or not. If you enjoy action packed stories, then stay clear from her. She's all about the characters and how they interact and react to situations and other characters, and to themselves. And her writing is to the fucking point. Never has an author absorbed me so deeply I forget I'm hungry and forget what time it is or where I am when I lift my eyes off the pages. I compare Scott to her in many aspects, and not the other way around. Its like Scott is her reincarnation, and packed with all this education to mix into a new world to explore.

I know everyone has their tastes. For me, MZB is a queen. If you haven't read anything by her, then I recommend Mists of Avalon, Stormqueen!, The Fall of Atlantis (its 2 books in one) to start off. She has over 50 novels. Enjoy. view post


Top 10 (or so) Ways You Kow You're an R. Scott Bakker Fan posted 17 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionTop 10 (or so) Ways You Kow You're an R. Scott Bakker Fan by Cnaiür, Peralogue

I've almost completed reading The Darkness That Comes Before and, so far, these are what I came up with:



- You're become a &quot;pompous ass&quot; and sign your name with an &quot;R.&quot; in front of it: R. John Smith, R. Jane Baker

- You name your daughter 'Esmenet'

- You experience the Mandate dream

- You pray your pregnant wife doesn't give birth to a blue baby

- You now look at crows more intently to find the one with the small head and blue eyes

- You render the hidden movers and shakers of Earth as 'The Consult'

- You attempt to live and be a Dûnyain monk; you surrender to the Logos, seeking absolute awareness, living the Shortest Way, committed to mission, reading thoughts and faces to dominate souls and circumstance. You become what comes before. Well, at least, you try.

- Despite your Christian faith you say &quot;Sweet Sejenus&quot;

- You look upon all non-Christians as heathen

- You refer to the Pope as Maithenet, and the Jesuit Supreme General as Sarcellus

- You're convinced all priests who molest little boys were raised in the House Gaunum, and Michael Jackson is the Patridomos himself

- You now call the North Star the &quot;Nail of Heaven&quot;

- You mark swazonds on your cock for every woman you lay

- Every time you're horny you look at your wife/gf as Esmenet, and mumble, &quot;Come to me my Esmi&quot;. After a long sweaty session of vibrant sex your wife/gf stuns you by saying, &quot;Ah, Callustrus, you're dreadfully gifted... what would I do without that thick cock of yours, hmmmm. Of all the morsels I get, you truly are the banquet.&quot;

- You look upon trouble-making terrorizing toddlers and pre-teens as Sranc, and give them grubs and insects on Halloween

- &quot;Pardon my Sheyic, but, f--- off!&quot;
- You point to your asshole friend and say, &quot;Coony, coony. That's Gilcûnya for 'you're a dirty, mold-infested douchbag'&quot;.

- You're convinced Scott's flushed cheeks are due to his wife's male Scylvendi complex.

- A beggar once asked you for money and you responded, &quot;I only have 3 copper talents, just enough for a couple pints of ale and a 1/2 pound of Sranc jerky. You should try your luck in Momemn. I've heard many from all across the Three Seas have gathered there in masses, something about an Inrithi calling. And you know those Inrithi, they're very kind and giving.&quot;

- In fear of not making next month's mortgage payments and insurance payments and bill payments, you begin to entertain the idea of selling one of your daughters off. Especially, now that they are of age. And you look upon little Caroline as your retirement deposit.

- You now refer to chess as Benjuka. If your opponent asks, or appears perplexed by that name, you reply, &quot;Oh, its the Aujic name for it, dating back over 5000 years. I've studied its masters and permutations since those historical times to the present&quot;. Without making your first move, you now have the upper hand.

- You quote Ajencis every chance you get. &quot;Faith is the truth of passion&quot;

- You etch PoN runes into a marble-sized ball-bearing and clutch it tightly every time your mother-in-law is present.

- You look upon all lonely grieving drunk men as Leweths

- You name your cock &quot;The Heron Spear&quot;





<!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post


Took me a bit...l posted 19 August 2008 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeTook me a bit...l by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Well... I finally completed reading The Darkness That Comes Before the other day! Woo-hoo! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> What an exhilarating read! A great way to end the first book. I never expected Skeaös to be a Consult spy. Its got me thinking about all the other characters in the book, even the Mandate ones, like Nautzera. I'm already edgy to begin The Warrior Prophet, which has been sitting on my bookshelf still crisp, new, and virgin tight for over 2 years. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Unfortunately, I passed by the library the other day, cuz I had time to kill before an appointment, and walked out with 2 Philip K Dick books. I've already plowed through A Scanner Darkly, and just started Valis today ( <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:!: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" /><!-- s:!: --> ). This man is one of a kind! Once I'm done Valis I'm going to begin The Warrior Prophet. I just hope it doesn't take me over 5 years again. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Sometimes I read certain books at a slower rate than normal, and some I read quicker, and at the rate I've been going with Scott's book he might have the 3rd trilogy already released before I've even finished reading the first trilogy. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> He probably writes them faster than I read them. Actually, he does! <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Truly, I already consider Scott's writing and story (so far) as one of the best out there. Almost worthy of being king in my heart. Its incredible for a first book. I hope Scott can keep the books coming. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Definitely worthy of a swazond. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post


Use of mythology when creating... posted 19 August 2008 in Writing TipsUse of mythology when creating... by Cnaiür, Peralogue

I echo this writing tip. Almost all my inspiration stems from mythologies. The Greek stories alone are worthy of pumping out thousands of novels. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 19 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Check out Marion Zimmer Bradley's material. I compare Scott's TDTCB (only one I've read so far) to her work in many ways, but TDTCB has more of a ... (can't find the proper word, so I'll just say....) philosophical and deeper edge in the writing. MZB just tells the story like it is.

Or, step outside of fantasy and look in the SF section. Philip K Dick is one of a kind! He's another writer that tells it like it is. I'm reading Valis at the moment and I'm already blown away and loving every moment of it. His stories and writing are very different from Scott's. Perhaps, that's what you need, something different in all aspects from Scott's work.

Step into the mythology realm. The Arthurian legends or the Greek myths are great places to start.

If you want to keep along the lines of Scott's work and inspirations, then delve into philosophy works, learn a new language, read GRRM books, pick up the Bible, check out the book &quot;A Mind of its Own&quot; by Cordelia Fine, which Scott highly recommends everyone read.

Or just go pick up a Far Side collection and laugh until you cramp and hurt.

One thing is certain, in this day and age there is no scarcity or shortcomings in things to read.

And to say Scott ruined it for you... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> If only I was there to give you some good ol' fashion Scylvendi discipline. Scott's work is inspiring and mind-opening, and I'm grateful for it.

If there's truly nothing you can read, then go hug your mom and dad and express how much you love them so much for copulating and bringing you into this world, because without them you never would've had the opportunity to read Scott's work. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> view post


Names and Pronunciation posted 21 August 2008 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeNames and Pronunciation by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:tn4vtmw1

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:tn4vtmw1
It would probably be best if Scott could give us some cross-referencing info on real languages to the PoN languages. On real groups of people to the ones in PoN.
Right now I can only assume the cross-referencing with my limited history and language knowledge. <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> [/quote:tn4vtmw1]
Well, I recall this quote from earlier in this same thread:
Quote: &quot;Lies And Perfidy&quot;:tn4vtmw1
It's worth noting, for those who missed it in the glossary of TTT, that the names we get in the books are chiefly Ketyai interpretations; for instance, &quot;Coithus&quot; is actually &quot;Koütha&quot; in the original Galeoth, which definitely has more of a Norsirai (read: Anglo-Saxon) ring to it. It'd be interesting to see what some of the other equivalents are.[/quote:tn4vtmw1]
Now unfortuntely, I haven't got TTT yet <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> and so I haven't seen the glossary there! So perhaps that would answer more of my questions about pronunciations and even similarities or analogues between some of Eärwa's fictional languages and Real World languages. Time (and successful intercontinental delivery from Amazon) will tell. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->[/quote:tn4vtmw1]

I have TTT. I've browsed through the encyclopedic glossary but never read its intro. This is some of what it states:

&quot;Inrithi scholars commonly rendered names in their Sheyic form, opting for native forms only in the absence of antique Sheyic analogues. So, for instance, the surname Coithus is in fact a Sheyic version of the Gallish &quot;Koütha&quot;, and so is rendered as such here. The surname Hoga, on the other hand, has no extant Sheyic form, as so is rendered in the original TyDonni&quot;
&quot;The vast majority of the following proper names, then, are simply transliterated from their Sheyic (and in some instance Kûniüric) form.&quot;

The last sentence in the intro to the TTT Encyclopedic Glossary:
&quot;These would be the names as Drusas Achamian knew them.&quot;

In the TTT glossary, under &quot;Sheyic&quot;:
&quot;The language of the Ceneian Empire, which still serves, in debased form, as the liturgical language of the Thousand Temples, and as the &quot;common tongue&quot; of the Three Seas&quot;

In TDTCB appendices:
High Sheyic = Language of the Ceneian Empire
Low Sheyic = Language of the Nansur Empire and lingua franca of the Three Seas


The Ceneian and Nansur Empires are north-western empires. The Ceneian was the greater of the 2 empires, and Nansur is the current empire, which morphed out of the Ceneian empire.
Now, I'm taking a stab here.... to place it in today's history, the Ceneian Empire = British Empire in all its glory once upon a time, and the Nansur is the now debased British Empire today (or U.S.A). In the context of language, then, High Sheyic = Old English, Low Sheyic = modern English.

So, most of the names and places are based on High Sheyic (Old English), which has been transliterated into Low Sheyic (modern English).

With this hypothesis, most of the names are actually pronounced in the modern English way, with exceptions here and there. The most notable exceptions being the names that use a circumflex and/or an umlaut. Modern English pronunciation rules apply everywhere else.

So.... if this is the case, I have some personal pronunciation corrections to make.


What do you think? view post


Sex posted 21 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionSex by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Sex? Monogamist. Preferably early in the morning or late at night, every day. I try to rotate through the 10000+ positions; favourites = missionary, vertical missionary, doggy, and being bucked like a bronco. Oral is always a pleasure. For her also. Locations: preferably outdoors, in forests, by rivers, lakes, oceans. Accessories: her choice, but I always carry cuffs - used more often than condoms. Fetishes: knee-high black boots and see-though nighties. Reality: my cuffs are rusting and my full pack of condoms have expired. Alternate: Engaging mental love with my books and writing; my lifelong harems. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> view post


Your First Time posted 22 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionYour First Time by Cnaiür, Peralogue

I've been reading since I was too young to remember, starting with books on animals to Curious George to Choose Your Own Adventures to Sherlock Holmes to Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms books to Stephen king books to Jim Morrison poetry (which really got me savagely going with writing), up until I was 15... but the one that opened my brain up was when I was seventeen: John Fowles - The Collector. Something about it really kicked me and my brain into gear. I'm no butterfly collector and I've never trapped any woman in my house, but, there was just that... something - something about the 2 perspectives, something about both characters' thoughts and emotions - just something I really related to that really got me going. view post


Music..not generally... posted 22 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionMusic..not generally... by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:3dfuf34g
Any of you like Def Leppard? Pour Some Sugar On Me, and others cannnot be denied.[/quote:3dfuf34g]

ROFL! <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> That, and &quot;Paul Revere&quot; by Beastie Boys is what got me into listening to music. Heck, just because of those 2 songs I have several vinyl LPs, over 100 tapes, about 50 CDs, and over 30 concert tickets to prove I was there (a couple even signed by band members). <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Nowadays, I don't listen to music. Its become unwanted, undesired noise to me. Its like it all sounds the same to me, like I've heard it all before. Blah!!!

If I do listen to music, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, GNR, RATM, and Jane's Addiction (especially!) still get my blood flowing and me going.

&quot;I wish I knew everyone's nicknames
all their slang and all their sayings,
and every way to show affection
and how to dress to fit the occasion.

I wish we all waved!&quot;

Yeah!

&quot;One come a day the water will run
and no man will stand for the things that he has done... &quot;

Hurrah!!!!!


Yeah! view post


The Ramblings of two SciFi geeks in the ATL posted 23 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionThe Ramblings of two SciFi geeks in the ATL by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Oh wow! I wish you were here in Toronto, and did this! I'd make sure to give you honest-to-No-God Scylvendi discipline before night's end. Booze included. I'd even bring a Xunnurit if anyone were to be Xerius. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post


Help me understand posted 23 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionHelp me understand by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Wow, that's heavy duty.

I highly recommend the movie &quot;In Bruges&quot;. One character states &quot;I'm suicidal. You're suicidal. We're all suicidal. Get over it. We all have to live with it. Somehow, in our own way.&quot; or something like that. Its a comedy, imo, but I felt that line summed up a lot.

In a philosophical way, I sometimes think this life is merely a test. The real life comes after we die. We're all placed here, or chose to be here at this time for a reason; a reason I suspect has to do with advancing our spiritual understanding, and advancing our life - in the whole universal scope of things. Once we've learned the lessons we need to learn, then, we can move on to the next stage of life to learn those lessons, whatever that may be, until we've finally learned all the lessons we need to learn to be once again united with the Divine One/Creator/Logos/God, whatever you wish to call it. view post


This just in; posted 23 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionThis just in; by Cnaiür, Peralogue

*New Alert!* *News Alert!* This just in...

During my good-looking stud days when females actually approached me, whenever an unattractive one asked me what I thought of them (physically), or if I found them attractive, I would always respond with, &quot;I think you're cute.&quot; For those that don't know, the word &quot;cute&quot; is code for &quot;I think you're ugly&quot;. Its a word used whenever you wish to not be honestly straightforward, yet, remain nice and polite. Most guys know this code (at least, here in Toronto), so if you females ever get the &quot;cute&quot; response, now you know what he really thinks about you. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


This just in; posted 26 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionThis just in; by Cnaiür, Peralogue

It wasn't just me, or my circle of friends at that time. I've also met guys who would do anything with a heartbeat. And do. The &quot;cute&quot; adjective is the only one in their vocab to use to be nice and polite to the ones they considered ugly or unattractive, but would still want their goods, for their own desperate sake. Of course, it could be different with everyone else. The way I see it is, if she was attractive, then the man would say so, and not use that lame &quot;cute&quot; word. Cute is for puppies and kittens and babies. Not women. Beauty has many dimensions, and a man would point them all out to the best of his vocab. I'm not a woman, so I don't know how they look at these things. I would hope their vocab has more than &quot;cute&quot; in store. I might cringe and be ever suspicious if they used that to describe me. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> Then again, nowadays, that might be a compliment. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Anyhow, the &quot;cute&quot; code was many years ago, and times change. view post


Music..not generally... posted 26 August 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionMusic..not generally... by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Hysteria is a legendary album in my collection. My very first tape. My very first rock band t-shirt was the Hysteria cover album with concert dates on the back. Amazingly, my young brother and one of his friends, for several years now - up to this very day - rock that t-shirt like its some priceless holy relic, and walk around downtown Toronto like they're kings and all eyes should be on them and all women should be on their knees in their presence. My brother's friend takes it to the extreme limit of sometimes wanting to fight anyone and everyone while we wears it. Its a crazy matter, with crazy tales to tell <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> . What a $10 investment can do over the course of 20 years is truly amazing. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Anyhow... I'm with you carlsefni, I lost all interest in the band when I heard Adrenalize (Let's Get Rocked?! Puh-leeeeease!). But I was also listening to Jane's Addiction during those times (when don't I listen to them! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->). Hysteria and Pyromania were the ones I enjoyed. I almost don't even remember High N Dry. The last song they made that I enjoyed was a b-side &quot;Two Steps Behind&quot;. Ever since, I haven't heard a thing by them, cept the news of the guitarist passing on, which just goes to show what alcohol can do. <!-- s:| --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_neutral.gif" alt=":|" title="Neutral" /><!-- s:| --> view post


Help me understand posted 08 September 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionHelp me understand by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:2ywydxl0
Try flipping the paradigm. Imagine someone you care about ending their life due to disinterest/depression/apathy or whatever. Then think why that might be a bad idea. I often find that whilst it is easy to see the flaws in other's thoughts or actions, we refuse the simple logic that aplies these insights to ourselves.[/quote:2ywydxl0]

This is a rough topic. Lord knows what people feel or what goes through their own mind at any given time or place. If only people can educate themselves in some way to think/believe that life is a test/exercise/lesson and it needs to be lived out regardless the hardship or ease, then they could move on properly in the whole cosmic outcome. In the case of suicide (which is still murder), my opinion, is those people will most likely come right back (or sent back?) to the life level they were at to try again - to learn those lessons they need to learn. Something equivalent to cosmic-scale karma. They did something that needs to be alleviated. These people would probably have a harder life the next time around.

But this is all philosophical/theological speculation...


Off topic... In Bruges was a great movie. I don't like Colin Farrell as an actor (except in Phone Booth) but he was hilarious in that movie. Then again, the movie is not so off topic because the movie has a suicide theme running through it view post


US Presidential Elections posted 09 September 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionUS Presidential Elections by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Does it really matter who becomes President? The wars and invasions will still continue, the economy will continue to slide, more banks will continue to close, more money and land will continue to consolidate into fewer hands, more draconian laws, no real 911 investigation - its whitewash will continue to stink and rot and puss, more threats and pushes toward a North American superstate (bye bye Canada, Mexico, U.S.).... Do you really think Obama will be there for the US people? Even if he's not working for the Consult, he's going to spend his entire term reversing and patching up all the damage the Bush dictatorship did.

A real President would abolish the Feds, ban the CFR, &quot;shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces&quot;, end all the wars and invasions, and bring all the U.S. troops back into the country to truly protect the nation's people. And that's just a start. Do you think the next US president will do any of these things? JFK once tried, and look what happened to him. If Obama tries.... no, he won't. He's a Consult puppet. A ventriloquist dummy. A Manchurian Candidate.

Pardon my pessimism, but there's no real nominee for the US presidency who will make any positively effective change. Even if there was... the electronic voting machines will ensure that candidate doesn't get their votes counted. Once upon a time the tune was &quot;United we stand, divided we fall.&quot; Now, its &quot;divided we stand, united we fall&quot;. view post


Now Reading... posted 11 September 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Cnaiür, Peralogue

I finished reading The Darkness That Comes Before about 3 weeks ago and, instead of continuing on to the next book I got sucked into a PKD and GRRM binge ever since. In that time, I've read these gems:







[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//ecx&#46;images-amazon&#46;com/images/I/51ZD3951RGL&#46;_SS500_&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]

Excellent story. Better than the movie, and the movie was also excellent.









[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//www&#46;philipkdick&#46;com/images-smallcovers/cov-valis-v-200&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]


This one was a <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:!: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" /><!-- s:!: --> I had to purchase this one because I plan to read it again. Also purchased the subsequent 2 books in this trilogy.













[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//ecx&#46;images-amazon&#46;com/images/I/51NG1ARW97L&#46;_SS500_&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]

So-so.












[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//ecx&#46;images-amazon&#46;com/images/I/51QGENEJKYL&#46;_SS500_&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]

Outstanding! Incredible! I couldn't put this one down. I read it in 5 days and didn't sleep much. The writing is hypnotically absorbing. The characters are some of the best I've ever encountered. Highly recommended. I placed an amazon order for this one and the next 2 books, in hardcover, and I anxiously await their arrival














[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//ecx&#46;images-amazon&#46;com/images/I/41wY79-Pn4L&#46;_SS500_&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]

Incredible short novel.












[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//ecx&#46;images-amazon&#46;com/images/I/411cii749NL&#46;_SS500_&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]

Good, but pales in comparison to the first one. This one had more of a comedic tone to it.














[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//www&#46;philipkdick&#46;com/images-smallcovers/cov-counter-v-200&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]

Great concepts, but it should have been taken further, deeper. Still a good story.









[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//ecx&#46;images-amazon&#46;com/images/I/51R7QY2E2KL&#46;_SS500_&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]

Fucked up. Lots of twists. Great concepts. I plan to read this one again.


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[img:37i8trbx]http&#58;//ecx&#46;images-amazon&#46;com/images/I/41NSH5T85VL&#46;_SS500_&#46;jpg[/img:37i8trbx]

I'm reading this one now. Almost a third of the way through. GRRM's writing is one of a kind. So absorbing I now pace myself so I can get proper sleep. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Now Reading... posted 11 September 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:25gs2dy8

I agree, Game of Thrones was a fabulous series kick-off. I've generally enjoyed the subsequent books in the series, too, though I have the feeling that (as often happens) success has blunted editorial oversight: the most recent installments have grown in length and slowed in pace, IMO. Still better than a great deal of epic fantasy, but ... well, even though Game of Thrones is hardly light on page-count, even by the standards of the genre, it's a lot snappier than, say, A Feast for Crows (which, I think, only contains half of the amount of plot development that was originally intended for it, with the rest of what was supposed to take place between its covers eventually having been hived off into what will be the next published book!). The production of increasingly weighty and complex tomes seems to have generally slowed down publication as well: the first 3 books came out at about two years intervals, I think, and then there was a 4 o 5 year gap until the fourth book, and it looks like a similar period will have passed by the time the next one comes out. At this rate, it could be 2020 before the final planned book is published! People born just after Game of Thrones was published could have babies of their own by then. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

[/quote:25gs2dy8]


I read this series was originally intended to be a trilogy. By the time the 3rd book released it was to be a 5 book series. The fourth book was so huge the editors insisted it be split into 2 books, so GRRM split it by removing certain characters right out and leaving them for the 5th book. I suspect what was suppose to be the 5th book is now to be split into 2 books, making the whole series a 7 book series. Imho, GRRM is trying to milk it for all its worth, like several other writers who release like 10 book series. Seven books in a widely praised series can rake in more than double the profits of a highly praised 3 book series. I can also understand some why its taking longer to release the books now... GRRM needs to come up with new content to fill out his books, as opposed to already having his story laid out in the beginning when it was projected to only be a trilogy. Also, he's getting himself mixed up in other stuff, like the 2 Hedge Knight novellas, The Hunter's Run which he wrote with 2 other writers, the Wild Cards stuff, and Lord knows what else... he should prioritize and just focus on the series, get it done and over with. Like you said, the babies born right after A Game of Thrones was released will probably grow up to read the series and then wait for the last novel to be released. I just hope its worth it in the end.

Perhaps, GRRM needs to take some pointers from Scott on how to complete a book in a short period of time. Amazon shows a Jan 2009 release for The Judging Eye. That's 5 books in under 6 years. I truly praise Scott for this outstanding drive and ability! Way to go!! You show these bloated bastards how its done. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post


Now Reading... posted 12 September 2008 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Cnaiür, Peralogue

<!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

I just received brand-spanking new hardcover copies of the first 3 books in the mail today, and purchased a used hardcover copy of A Feast For Crows in very nice condition for $7. It all worked out very snuggly, even on my bookshelf. I'm anxious to already dig in, but I still have Fevre Dream to complete, and three PKD books from the library as well. To top it all off, I still have The Warrior Prophet and The Thousandfold Thought to also read, which I wish to do before the next installment is released. But, since my experiences reading TDTCB I'm of a mindset where Scott's books is for a time when I'm ready to savour them like am exotic fruit pie or twenty talent whore. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3diglmmm

I was going to take the slightly more charitable view that GRRM had simply gotten so wrapped up in world and story that he was simply spawning ever more side characters and side plots as he details each day's weather and menu while someone travels from somewhere to somewhere else, the reasons for doing having escaped our minds since the motive was introduced several hundred pages previously. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I think that must be easily done, perhaps even for an experienced novelist -- grave temptation to disappear in to minutiae that make brilliant sense to the author who is intimately aware of every facet of existence in their world and story. It's a kind of micro-management problem, I suppose. [/quote:3diglmmm]

That's called milking it for all its worth, until the udder becomes barren and shrivels into a prune. Using a different perspective, its bloating the novel, like a steak 60 percent fat 35 percent meat 5 percent t-bone. Out of a thousand pages that's 350-500 worthwhile pages, the rest just unusable fluff. This is when the editor must step in with a machete and butcher it.

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3diglmmm

I've certainly committed similar sins in some of my novel project drafts, with loads of description of things that don't really advance the core plot and piles of subordinate characters popping up with their own subplot nuclei before I realize I really have nothing to do with them. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> In fact, seeing how &quot;Ice &amp; Fire&quot; was developing is probably one of the things that made me stop, and go hmm, and think that I probably need a more rigourous plan/outline if I were going to produce anything vaguely sensible! [/quote:3diglmmm]

Just write it all out, then do the butchering job afterwards. Both are excellent exercises. So I hear. <!-- s:| --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_neutral.gif" alt=":|" title="Neutral" /><!-- s:| -->

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3diglmmm

I do enjoy &quot;Ice &amp; Fire&quot;, and do look forward to the next installment .... But I do think some editor should step in and say: &quot;25-50% of this draft has to go!&quot;. Save it for spin-off novellas and short stories that can obit the main series like gnarly little satellites. <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> Of course, the very fact that I still want to read the next installment despite the bloat is probably exactly why some editor isn't stepping in and doing that .... <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
[/quote:3diglmmm]

Its GRRM's publisher's fault for refusing the original draft of A Feast for Crows. They said it was too large, which to me is BS, and forced him to split it into two books. They also want to milk it for all its worth. I just think about War and Peace, The Bible, Neal Stephenson's last five novels, even A Storm of Swords, and no book is too large to bind or release. Yeah, the publishers want to also milk it for all its worth. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

But, at this point, and like numerous others, it won't stop me from getting the rest of the books and reading them.


Btw, whenever you get a chance, read Fevre Dream. I'm two-thirds of the way through and its already one of the best vampire stories I've ever read. The story has balls and the characters pack a stand-out punch. The writing is sharp and crisp and the dialog is sensational. Very much like what I encountered in A Game of Thrones. I highly recommend it.


Cheers. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> view post


the bible is the solution posted 13 September 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Mandati Wannabe&quot;:1aaqwsyv


The God itself, nowhere in the Bible, has told us that we MUST do something, or face eternal damnation. One of the most fundamental parts of the faith is, or should be, due to the writings in their own scriptures, that each and every one of us has free will, and thus a choice. Nothing is more important to God. We all have to choose, of our own volition, to either believe or not to believe. This extends to anything. God quite literally allows us to do anything we please, be it kindness, or harming each other, or editing the words of a paper.

If God &quot;proved&quot; its existence to any of us, that would be forcing us to believe, and that is not the kind of worship that God desires.
[/quote:1aaqwsyv]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Free Will is the key. It is up for us to decide what we do with our own life. This is the greatest gift we were given.



Quote: &quot;dirk69er&quot;:1aaqwsyv

why would God allow a man who was described as upright before the eyes of God, to suffer evil?[/quote:1aaqwsyv]

To test our faith. Most of the time a smooth ride in life doesn't allow for personal or spiritual growth. A catalyst of some sort is needed to give that push, the motivation, the obstacles needed to overcome... with this overcoming usually sprouts growth. Ask yourself, do you notice yourself personally grow when faced with obstacles and challenges, or when faced with idleness and complacency?



Quote: &quot;Israfel&quot;:1aaqwsyv

It's all about Christ/God inside you. [/quote:1aaqwsyv]

I completely agree. Recognize this, and also recognize this in everyone and everything else. How you treat yourself is the same as how you treat God. How you treat others is the same as how you treat God. How you treat an animal, even an inanimate object is the same as how you treat God. Jesus Christ taught a simple formula on how to treat others: peace and kindness, love and forgiveness. This must be how God wishes to be treated. We have the gift of free will to decide.

That's my take on life and what I learned from the Bible.



Just remember, no matter what you do or how you live your life Sweet Sejenus still loves you.

Cheers <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> view post


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