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White Lord Subdidact | joined 26 December 2004 | 212 posts

Stephen Erikson's Books posted 19 February 2005 in Literature DiscussionStephen Erikson's Books by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: "Faelcind Il Danach":1e2p38xd
I can't imagine trying to slog through Steven Ericksons prose more then once, my head hurts just thinking about. Like many others I bounced hard off of GOTM. People have told me to give it a second chance but there really wasn't a single thing I like about GOTM, and nothing I have heard of the following books convinces me they are much better. The charecters seemed like D&D charictures, ever one more powerfull then the last, the charecters actions were almost completely random and the prose, Ouch.[/quote:1e2p38xd]

I agree completely. I've tried to read most of his books, and I've not been able to finish one, and that is very unusual for me, since I can read most anything and I generally dislike leaving books half-finished. I simply don't see what the big deal about Erikson is all about. His work is just not something I care to read.

Then again, to each their own . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

Stephen Erikson's Books posted 22 February 2005 in Literature DiscussionStephen Erikson's Books by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Mithfânion&quot;:egevt5di

Off-topic a bit, but what *are* your favorites? I noticed you're very big on worldbuilding, as am I, so maybe I can pick up a recommendation or two.[/quote:egevt5di]

Well I think RevCasy has expressed in his post more or less what I think also. To tell you the truth, even for those books/series which were well-written/fun to read I couldn't give you a recommendation for simple world-building.

I think the only fantasy books/world that I could really appreciate for its world-building is Tolkien's Middle-earth. And even then I'm not really enamoured of his story. I just think it's a really well-made world, and even the story itself draws something from it that you can't really find elsewhere.

I like reading fantasy in the G.R.R. Martin mould, and while I love his story I think his world is much less detailed and thought out than it should. For ex. his eastern continents feel just as an afterthought to anchor the Daenerys storyline, which is fast coming to bore me <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> . . .

Jordan also gets a lot of praise for his world-building but again I don't see exactly why . . . Hell, the world as revealed in the first book of Prince of Nothing was already more detailed and more gripping than the Wheel of Time after ten books. What you get in the WoT is repetition of the same "world-building" details ad nauseam and some really annoying braid-tugging and sniffing . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Now we come to Scott Bakker's PoN books, and I have to tell you that for the first time since reading LotR I can really appreciate a fantasy world for itself without paying much attention to the story, and even the story gets more and more interesting against such a well-made backdrop.

Really can you guess why I'm constantly plaguing Scott for more details? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

And I can tell you that reading the books was a really great experience for me. I have read them only once and I have absorbed nearly everything, from names, history, geography, storyline, that I don't think I'll need a re-read when Book Three comes out. That should be sufficient reason to tell you how much PoN has impressed me.

Now, though, I have to ask you the same question you put to me, because I'm frankly interested in the worlds you think good, since as you see, they may have escaped me . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Cheers, WL. view post

Stephen Erikson's Books posted 22 February 2005 in Literature DiscussionStephen Erikson's Books by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;RevCasy&quot;:12lnby7a
This is off topic, but I've seen questions like this many many times on other forums. And I understand the desire to find something good to read, because good fantasy is rare.

The sad thing is that I have stopped asking the question myself, because I came to realization that the well is dry. After 25 years, I've read all the really good fantasy that has ever been written (and a lot of the less good stuff too).

Now my only choice is to read in other genres that I haven't exhausted and wait for new books to be published.


It makes me sad to think this way.[/quote:12lnby7a]

Very, very true . . . (unfortunately).

I'm also not reading much fantasy anymore, simply because 99% of it is pure and simple trash, and I'm afraid I could lose the love for the genre if I keep up picking books I end up loathing.

I picked up Darkness that Comes Before as an afterthought, not really expecting much, and I can't stop thanking whatever deity put it on my path . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Really great books, and much to look forward to in the years to come, but don't expect much from other new or old authors . . .

Frankly I'm grateful Scott Bakker is here and writing, and maybe Martin if he gets his act together, since I suspect he has lost his inspiration and is incapable of finishing Book Four. view post

the emperor Ikurai Xerius III posted 22 February 2005 in The Warrior Prophetthe emperor Ikurai Xerius III by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;RevCasy&quot;:xw73rxzf
As I said, I'm not Dunyain, but apparently 'H' is. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Those are both excellent points H, and ones which I hadn't thought of.

On the other hand, the Consult now know for certain that Kellhus can detect skin spies. Even if he leaves some alive in the ranks of the Holy War, might the Consult not be suspicious of his motives for doing so? In fact, wouldn't they look for a new, undetectable, way of infiltrating and spying regardless?[/quote:xw73rxzf]

You seem to be following my train of thought pretty well . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

I really don't expect that Kellhus thinks he can find more about the Consult from the skin-spies, just as I don't think the skin-spies will stop trying to eliminate him.

After all, Kellhus has single-handedly wrecked whatever hope the Consult had of smashing the Cishaurim, and they have already marked him for some really painful demise.

The only reason why they won't be quickly eliminated from the Holy War I have already posted upthread, however I suspect that at the very least the Thanes Kellhus has been training will be able to pick up the skin-spies so we might see some captures and interrogations. Kellhus has been observing and mapping their behaviour and I have no doubt he could push the right buttons to make them talk if he can capture them alive.

This is also one of the ways the Great Names can be convinced of the threat the Consult represents . . . view post

A few questions . . . posted 22 February 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:1obuk8yi
Nilnamesh is Ketyai with a Satyothi admixture, and though it was incorporated into the Ceneian Empire (the famous fortress of Auvangshei, which for denizens of the Three Seas is synonymous with the ends of the world, is actually a Ceneian fortress), it's grip was shortlived and dubious.[/quote:1obuk8yi]

Thanks for the info. Can you tell us in what book will we be seeing something of Nilnamesh, if not of Zeum? I kind of hope it'll be in TTT . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:1obuk8yi
Otherwise, and I cannot emphasize this enough, trees DO NOT have any particular significance to the Nonmen - as I think will become apparent in TTT.

The motif you're picking up on plays a far different roll... <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->[/quote:1obuk8yi]

Well I wasn't 100% sure of linking them to the Nonmen (lots of other explanations) but I did think they were important. It surely brings Yggdrasil of Norse mythology to mind. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I'm very glad we'll be finding out in TTT and not the upcoming series. Seriously, the wait would kill me . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Can you tell us what numbers did the Nonmen have population-wise before their decline, or at their zenith? Usually when one thinks of long-lived races, one can't not associate them to Tolkien's elves which have really few children and far between. Now that does not necessarily have to be true, and I expect that in Earwa the Nonmen should have had great numbers, perhaps even more than the number of humans. Can you give us any details?

Thanks a lot! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

A few questions . . . posted 01 March 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:1t9owyoa
As for the numbers of Nonmen, it's not something I've really thought about... hmm. Definitely less than the human population, though they did exercise absolute authority over all of Earwa. The history of the Nonmen definitely something I intend on putting some work into as the series progresses.[/quote:1t9owyoa]

I thought you had the history of the Cunuroi as well developed as that of the later human civilizations . . .

I also think your answers in Annabel's thread on the Scylvendi and life after death very interesting (and significant <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> ). I've been thinking about it for some time, especially on the issue of the Outside, and its inhabitants, and the tidbits you shared with us are very welcome. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:1t9owyoa
[. . .] Given this overarching indeterminacy, there's three basic options: Oblivion, Damnation, or Redemption. The idea is that without the interest of the various 'agencies' (as the Nonmen call them) inhabiting the Outside, one simply falls into oblivion - dies. Certain acts attract the interest of certain agencies. One can, and most Inrithi do, plead to redeemed ancestors to intercede on their behalf, but most give themselves over to some God. Doing so, however, puts their souls entirely into play, and the more sketchy one's life is, the more liable one is to be 'poached' by the demonic, and to live out eternity in everlasting torment.[/quote:1t9owyoa]

I'd like to know what, exactly, these "agencies" you mention are . . . It's clear that they refer both to "good" and "evil" creatures and I expect they must include the god/s of Men and also assorted demons, but what are they exactly, supernatural beings (real divinities who had a hand in the shaping of the world of Earwa) or simply various races of creatures who happen to live in another dimension and who can, on occasion, access the physical world (the case of the demon conjured by Iyokus)?

Also the matter of souls. Is reincarnation viable for the inhabitants of Earwa? Do souls simply vanish if not 'redeemed' or is there some "repository" from which they can later be reborn into the world?

And what of these 'redeemed' ancestors/souls? If they live in the Outside, can they cross the barrier and come back into the world as themselves or through some vessel? (This is particularly interesting because it could bear on Seswatha's Heart).

Actually what is the status of Seswatha? In some scenes, especially in TWP during Achamian's torture, it seems Seswatha is actually taking a hand, controlling Achamian, showing himself to be more than a set of memories. I think he could be still alive somewhere in the Outside and using the Heart as a sort of link which enables him to influence events in the world. Anything in this idea of mine?

Also a question on sorcery. What is it that determines who is a member of the Few, is it genetic or linked to the soul in some way? This is interesting because from what you said of the Quya they are a caste, so one would expect that anyone born into this caste could work sorcery, so it implies a genetic basis, but still . . . Also are the Siqu a branch of the Quya or an unrelated caste?


Oh, BTW, how is TTT coming along? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

A few questions . . . posted 15 March 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Pretty disappointing about this new delay, still not much we can do . . . <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> And honestly I'd better not think about it at all or I'm bound to go insane. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I'll be expecting a kick-ass conclusion to the trilogy, however, Scott!! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Also as an aside, since TTT is being delayed, it would be real good to see some stuff from the book on your site ASAP: some new maps (if I remember correctly you said there would be some new maps), pieces from the appendices or a chapter (or parts of chapters).

Also a question (only one this time <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I think I'm running out of questions I think you'd even remotely contemplate answering!): Did the ancient Norsirai fight wars against the Ketyai and Satyothi or were they too powerful and/or self-absorbed to be a threat to anyone or be threatened by anyone?

Thanks! view post

R.A. Salvatore mentions Scott in passing posted 15 March 2005 in Interviews and ReviewsR.A. Salvatore mentions Scott in passing by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;amadah&quot;:2gcfbejb
I will admit to having read several of Salvatore's books, though it shames me to do so. I have read both of Bakker's books. Salvatore's creations don't hold a candle to Bakker's and they are, in fact, "somewhere between 'porn mag' and 'harlequin romance'" as far as I'm concerned.

Honestly, does Drizz't Do'Urden compare with any of Bakker's characters? Pretty poorly.[/quote:2gcfbejb]

In complete agreement with you. In fact I only read his books (or any book of that sort) to have a good laugh or two . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

Another Maithanet Theory (possible spoiler) posted 16 March 2005 in The Warrior ProphetAnother Maithanet Theory (possible spoiler) by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Twayleph&quot;:e5s2z6pq
Speaking of the Cishaurim : I wonder, has anyone made a theory on why the Consult wants to destroy the Cishaurim so badly ? Considering that, before Khellus, they weren't aware the Anasûrimbor lineage had survived, they couldn't possibly have known all about Moënghus ; at most, they knew him under wathever identity he's assumed in Earwa.

Do you think their manipulation of the Holy War is all about killing Moënghus, or the fact that the Consult can't see them as the Few - or maybe a deeper effect of Psukhe ?[/quote:e5s2z6pq]

I think the enmity may have started when the Cishaurim began eliminating the skin-spies. We know Kellhus has been able to identify them from the start, so we can assume that Moenghus could do the same. Having the skin-spies taken out, one by one, would be a severe blow to the Consult, especially if the trend spread throughout the Three Seas. We know Moenghus has trained his followers in the way of the Dunyain so they could unearth the skin-spies too.

However, this could be only part of the answer. From the dialogue between the synthese and the skin-spy it seems the Consult have great respect for Cishaurim sorcery. I'm positive the Psukhe is going to develop into the strongest form of sorcery (maybe with Moenghus's and Kellhus's help). What we know so far is that it is founded on a new metaphysics (a few hundred years old at most) and the lack of the onta makes it very significant, since it would presuppose some form of 'divine' sanction, if the Mark is absent. Also consider that it is already almost as formidable as the Anagogis which has been around for thousands of years. With minds such as Moenghus and Kellhus working on refining it it could become a very powerful weapon.

The Consult uses Gnostic sorcery. As long as all they had to fear was the Anagogis or the Gnosis of the few Mandate sorcerers all was fine. But the Psukhe is invisible to them, with who knows what advantages over the other metaphysics, and the Cishaurim are probably as big a school as the Scarlet Spires, and a powerful threat.

Also if the Cishaurim, through Moenghus, have certain knowledge of whom they are fighting, and if they have initiated skirmishes against the Consult, with positive results, this could have caused the Consult to use the kind of hammer the Holy War represents.

One of the small hints that the Cishaurim may have taken up the Mandate's fight is the thought Achamian has of some Cishaurim attacking him while he was in Shimeh. What if they were not attacking him but trying to communicate with him or take him to Moenghus? Could also explain the interest Maithanet has in Achamian, if he's in any way connected with Moenghus's plans.

Also as an aside on Achamian, I've been steadily coming to believe he could be either the reincarnation of Seswatha or some sort of disciple, one who could carry on his work (or if my theory on Seswatha being still alive in the Outside is correct, as his Chosen). If his role is to be more than Kellhus's teacher, then the Cishaurim contacting him, and Maithanet showing interest in him would not be so strange. view post

A few questions . . . posted 25 March 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:3q9bm0vt
As Grandpa Plato would say, Only the dead have seen the end of war.[/quote:3q9bm0vt]
<!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:3q9bm0vt
Regarding the website, I actually hope to discuss this with Jack in the near future. I can't see much in the way of new content for awhile yet though. I actually have the completed draft of Neuropath to rewrite after TTT is wrapped up.[/quote:3q9bm0vt]

I think you should seriously consider releasing small tidbits at regular intervals, especially before the book's release. I know of some authors who go as far as releasing half the book in weekly snippets on the publisher's board to give the readers the time to gauge whether they think it worthwhile to buy the thing (and the thing is, it works, seems their sales have improved). Now, I'm not suggesting you go to those lengths (I wish <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->) but it's something you should consider: posting small parts of chapters that give people things to discuss while they wait for publication without giving up too much information or compromizing the plot. It would help to keep existing readers' interest fixed and attract new ones. If updating the site is too bothersome for you or whoever does it for you, you could consider doing it here on the board. I think attracting new members to this board, convincing them to register and start discussing the books is also a pretty important move. This board is dead most of the time (or at least parts of it are) and some more activity here would help to draw people's attention, and if you use it to release book-related material I'm convinced it would do so.

But enough of this! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Let me know what you think though . . . On to some questions (hopefully I'll get at least something out of them <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->)

1. You mention that Thoti-Eannorean is the ground tongue of all Men. Could you clarify this a bit, because I find it hard to believe that so many races of Men, possibly living at great distances from one another, would develop and use a single common language. The only explanation is that it is not the original tongue of them all but the earliest known tongue they all spoke, possibly through close contact or, alternately, a bondage tongue that was imposed on them (or that Men, like the Inchoroi, fell from the sky already speaking a common language which was the platform from which all the others developed <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->). Can you elaborate on this a bit?

2. I'd like to know how far back through history you intend to go. Specifically will we ever know what made the nations migrate from Eanna to Earwa. Since I have a strong belief the events surrounding the genesis of the Tusk will be important to the future plotlines I'd like to know if you'll expand on this period some.

3. In one of his Dreams Achamian tells us of the siege of Golgotterath and he mentions a few historical figures. One of them is Nymeric (sp?) sounding the Worldhorn. So who was he? I think he could be the dead son Celmomas talks about. Am I right, and if not, who was he? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Thanks a lot! view post

Erikson? posted 25 March 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionErikson? by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Da-krul&quot;:1l55dwa9
I'm fairly bored, I was gonna add discriptions but then I realized I wasn't THAT bored. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->[/quote:1l55dwa9]
<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

It usually takes a gun pointed to my head to make me do the least exerting thing . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I really admire you, you know, I'd have been too lazy to do as much! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

A few questions . . . posted 28 March 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:2iriy83o
I even have a historical atlas I want to put up.[/quote:2iriy83o]

That's a great idea and I can't wait to see it.
Will the maps be similar to the ones on the site now? Did you consider improving them? Because I actually have a few gripes about these maps . . . For one there's no way to gauge distances; there are no roadways and there are no borders! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Now I know I'm somewhat of a perfectionist, so what bugs me may not be an issue with others, but it drives me nuts not to be able to visualize the exact sizes of the various nations. Using different colours for stuff like deserts, plains mountains etc. would also help.

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:2iriy83o
There are things from the time of the Tusk I do want to flesh out, such as the conflict between the Old Prophets and the Shamans, the question of how the surviving Inchoroi brought Chorae, the 'Tears of God' to the Five Tribes before the Breaking of the Gates, and the Cuno-Halaroi Wars (Halaroi is the Nonman name for Men). Stuff like that.[/quote:2iriy83o]

Interesting stuff . . . About these "Gates" . . . What exactly are they? I expect you mean fortified passes across the Kayarsus. This also begs the question: is the Kayarsus even natural. I mean, this is a huge mountain range that effectively runs the length of Earwa and seals it from the rest of the continent like a Wall of China analogue (very convenient for the Nonmen). Can such mountains be raised by sorcery? Were/are the Quya capable of such things?

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:2iriy83o
Nymerik is actually the King of Aorsi, and kinsman to Celmomas (my office is an absolute disaster and I can't find the chronicles, but Kuniuri, Aorsi, and Sheneor were once a single kingdom which was divided among three sons - all Anasurimbor). As for Celmomas's son, you actually learn a fair bit about him in TTT.[/quote:2iriy83o]

Was this kingdom that was divided Umerau? Because you say the Anasurimbor were the third dynasty to rule Kuniuri but the timeline would not support it. It's much more plausible that they were the third royal house of Umerau.

Also a closing question. You said you'd not say anything specific about Zeum, still I'm trying this one . . . Is there any contact between Zeum and Injor-Niyas, specifically by sea? The Nonman kingdom is effectively encircled by hostiles by land so the only commerce avenues they have left lead to Zeum.

Thanks! view post

A few questions . . . posted 06 April 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:3ufudsfb
The Gates of Earwa are exactly that: a series of fortified passes through the Great Northern Kayarsus, which are most definitely natural.[/quote:3ufudsfb]

1. Only through the Northern Kayarsus? If I remember correctly, on the Eannorean side of the Southern Kayarsus there is some kind of desert . . . Did that make the Gates redundant there? Also why build them in the first place . . . did the Cunuroi have to defend Earwa from someone on the other side in the remote past?

2. Also a question on the Southern Cunuroi. Why exactly did no contact akin to that between Injor-Niyas and the Norsirai exist in the South? Did Men exterminate all remaining Nonmen there, or did they leave for the North (or wherever)?

3. Two questions on the Anasurimbor (don't know if you'll answer, the first is pretty harmless, the second . . . I don't really know <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->): You've described the coats of arms of some of the Houses, such as House Nersei, House Coithus etc. in the books, so I'm interested in what the coat of arms of the House of Anasurimbor was like, and if Kellhus or his descendents will start using it again; I'd also like to know if there are any more Anasurimbor (apart from Moenghus and Kellhus) alive in Ishual or anywhere else, and if we may expect them to crop up at some point in the upcoming books.

4. You said that Prince of Nothing would tell the story of the Holy War, and Aspect-Emperor that of the Second Apocalypse, so I'd like to know if the third trilogy will continue the story of the Apocalypse or if that part of the tale ends in AE, to be replaced by something else (ordering of the post-apocalyptic world maybe?).

I'd also like to know what made you decide on the twenty-year gap between PoN and AE. I assume these years will be spent fighting the Second Holy War you hinted at in some other post, so why not incorporate both holy wars in the first trilogy? Too much story to tell maybe? I can't stop thinking it would have made for some very interesting reading, especially if it spilled into other parts of the Three Seas . . .

Thanks a lot! (Hope I'm not being a bore with so many questions <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->) view post

A few questions . . . posted 08 April 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:3q7u2kvz
Sorry about the delay, WL. I started the first sentence of this response twice only to be terminally interrupted.[/quote:3q7u2kvz]

Oh I don't mind, as long as I get my answers, that is . . . <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:3q7u2kvz
The southern Mansions were entirely obliterated.[/quote:3q7u2kvz]

I've been meaning to ask you to clarify the concept of Mansion for some time. So what is a Mansion, a Nonman kingdom, a court, or both?

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:3q7u2kvz
3) This is something I've toyed with for years, but I've yet to come up with anything I'm happy with. It's what I call a 'high pressure' detail. It needs to be something uncommon, evocative, and threatening... An animal totem just won't do it.[/quote:3q7u2kvz]

Can't wait to see what you finally decide on! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Also, while I'm at it, I'd like to know what Cunuroi coats of arms are like. It seems Men use animals on their standards, so what about the Nonmen?

Another interesting thing is the Anasurimbor Nonman heritage (could they have adopted a Nonman-like coat of arms?). Did they know they were descended from a Nonman and what was their attitude toward it? For that matter what did the Nonmen think? Did it give the Anasurimbor a slightly better standing than other monarchs?

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:3q7u2kvz
Your other questions I must refrain from answering for reasons of National Security.[/quote:3q7u2kvz]

And what am I to make of this? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

A closing question. Will Moenghus get some airtime in TTT, I mean throughout the book, or will he remain a sort of ubiquitous hidden presence till the very end?

Thanks! view post

Bakker vs. Kellhus in Cranium posted 09 April 2005 in Author Q &amp; ABakker vs. Kellhus in Cranium by White Lord, Subdidact

So far the Emperor has been a very funny character to read about. Since I predict a gruesome end for him I hope it can be made entertaining as well . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

Moenghus and Mandate posted 12 April 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtMoenghus and Mandate by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Morgoth Bauglir&quot;:2e5n9fl1
Could it be possible, and I'm acting on a hunch here, so bear with me, that Moenghus could be, not a Cishaurim, but some kind of Consult-spy schoolman who has mastered the Gnosis? Think about it; Dunyain have most of their power through the ability to read peoples' expressions- the Cishaurim have no eyes; while we know little about Psuke, we know that the Gnosis contains the Cants of Calling, by which someone can enter the dream of another as long as he knows where he is- i.e. Moenghus could find Kellhus. This is just a theory, and I'm not nessesarily saying I myself believe it, but it's definantley something to think about.

-Morgoth Bauglir[/quote:2e5n9fl1]

You can do the same thing with the Anagogis or the Psukhe. Actually I think communicating with other people with sorcery could be the easiest thing to do . . . Also remember the scene with Cishaurim sorcery while Skauras and the Emperor first negotiate, that doesn't make it like they are deficient in this department . . . view post

Will the Fanim finally get a break? posted 12 April 2005 in Author Q &amp; AWill the Fanim finally get a break? by White Lord, Subdidact

You don't always have to win battles or wars in order to gain supremacy over other peoples (or lose it if you are defeated), IMO. Who knows what will happen by the time AE begins . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

A few questions . . . posted 12 April 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:3p3rosxs
Sometimes I feel like you're the dirty old man in the strip bar sitting on sniff row shouting 'take it off!'

<!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->[/quote:3p3rosxs]

<!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Well at least now you know what you can expect . . . <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Just one question (the only one that comes to mind ATM <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->): somewhere in TWP Martemus and Conphas talk about the standard of the Over-Army (the Concubine) and there is a description of a golden disk (of Kyranean origin) with strange forms on it (alien, humanlike, with elongated limbs), so I was wondering if this is a sneaky way of giving us some idea of what the Nonmen are like, or the Inchoroi maybe . . .

Thanks! view post

The Destruction of the Dunyain posted 14 April 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Destruction of the Dunyain by White Lord, Subdidact

I don't think the Dunyain will be destroyed outright, nor do I think you should view them only in a negative light. They are misguided, but by their very nature things can be explained to them, and I don't see Kellhus or anyone else throwing them away. Also from things Scott has said, I think we can expect great things from the Dunyain.

We know from the ending of TWP that the Consult are searching for the Dunyain. They will probably be found. They will probably be flushed out of Ishual with sorcery, because otherwise a few thousand Dunyain are invincible, (remember the prologue of tDtCB and the Dunyain erasing sorcerous runes from the walls of Ishual - probably Wards against sorcery.) But you have to consider the location of Ishual itself: right next door to Injor-Niyas. If the Consult use sorcery there, the Nonmen Quya will be involved, and I predict the Nonmen and Dunyain will link up at some point.

As to what could happen next, there's too little data to be sure . . . but for me the Dunyain are on the side of the good guys, if you can call anyone 'good' in these books. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

The Destruction of the Dunyain posted 14 April 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Destruction of the Dunyain by White Lord, Subdidact

The Consult only found out they existed at all some time during TWP.

From what we know, it is possible to make fortresses invisible with sorcery. It's what was done with Golgotterath by the Nonmen. That's why the scene where the Dunyain destroy the Warding runes might be important. We don't know if they have completely destroyed Ishual's defenses so it could mean that it could still be protected from attack but not invisible, or it could mean it's not protected at all, but if the Consult want to find them they will probably succeed. After all they have whole armies of Sranc available, and the last scene in TWP has them searching the Dunyain in Akksersia, on the other side of the continent, so if they're searching there they must be doing it everywhere. view post

error? posted 26 April 2005 in The Warrior Propheterror? by White Lord, Subdidact

I don't think the book says he took out his heart. Serwe and Kellhus were tied against one another whilst hanging from that tree, so what happened is that Serwe's heart got somehow stuck on Kellhus's chest (and it'd be interesting to know the details of its getting there BTW . . .). Anyway you can ask the author himself in the Q&amp;A section if you want anything definite. view post

What is the Thousand-Fold Thought? posted 27 April 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhat is the Thousand-Fold Thought? by White Lord, Subdidact

I think the thousandfold thought is the realization of the Logos, i.e. the knowledge one has reached the Logos. The object of the Dunyain is the discovery of the Logos, or, in other words, to become "self-moving souls", utterly free from the constraints of the world but also possessed of profound knowledge, and the fact that Kellhus, after coming down from that tree says (or thinks) among other things that he encompasses all the Three Seas, and that there are no obstacles or limits for him argues that he has actually discovered the Logos (along with Moenghus perhaps).

Now one has also to think on the nature of the Logos itself, at least in the context of the world of Earwa, since I can find in Scott's writing so many echoes of real-life mythology and philosophy, but with a totally different, syncretic shape that makes predictions of any sort very tough. The concept of Logos exists in the metaphysics of the ancient Greek philosophers, it exists in the metaphysics of heretical Christians (the Gnostics), and the Logos (or Eternal Wisdom) is something that can be incarnated into a human vessel. Since we know so little about the metaphysics of Earwa (and incidentally it's what TTT will mostly be about) we don't yet know whether you can attain the Logos through what the Dunyain have been doing (training mind and body) or if only a chosen person can get it through the intercession of some Deity from the Outside.

As things stand, I'm of a mind to think that only Kellhus, as some sort of champion of the God actually has or can know the Logos, since it will be of great help in fighting the No-God . . . Then again I'm also close to thinking that Kellhus himself may be an avatar of the God (remember Serwe mentioning that in the days of the Tusk men knew the gods and the gods walked among men as men).

Ultimately, though, I think that this esoteric dimension of the story is much more important than the religious/ethical musings the protagonists make. We know so little on the Outside or better yet the ultimate rules and underpinnings of the whole reality of Earwa and the other dimension/s (such as the Outside). Once we know more we'll be able to explain not only if the Dunyain themselves are deluded in thinking they can attain the Logos but also the nature of Kellhus (Messiah/Prophet, son of God/god incarnated or whatever).

Sorry for my incoherent ramblings (I'm half-asleep right now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->). Hope to hear what you think specifically on my idea on the thousandfold thought, and of course your take on where we might expect the storyline to go in relation to the metaphysics of Earwa. view post

livin n dyin in TTT posted 27 April 2005 in The Thousandfold Thoughtlivin n dyin in TTT by White Lord, Subdidact

Iyokus is definitely still alive. To me he's a very ambiguous character (lots of clues on him being a powerful ally for either side), still I've got a gut feeling he may go over to Kellhus's side.

Actually, by the end of TTT I expect many characters will shed their current views on sorcery and religion (and even national allegiance). So I see Eleazaras himself along with the surviving SS (;)) and Cishaurim supporting Kellhus (it's the Mandate itself I'm dubious of). The name of the following trilogy (Aspect-Emperor) is very significant. Some think it refers to Conphas but I think we can safely assume it's Kellhus who is here referred to. Also at first I thought he'd rule an empire slowly expanding from Momemn and the Nansur lands, but right now I find it much more plausible that by the end of TTT Kellhus will be made emperor of the conquered Fanim lands (as a starting point) supported by the surviving Holy War and Great Names, with Fanim additions. Also very likely that the Consult, through the skin-spy rulers of the Inrithi will move against them. And here you have the basis of this Second Holy War Scott has been hinting at: the reconquest of the western lands by Kellhus and the Great Names.

On his timely success also depends whether the Second Apocalypse will be fought in the North or in the heart of the Three Seas. view post

Feelings for our protaganist posted 27 April 2005 in Author Q &amp; AFeelings for our protaganist by White Lord, Subdidact

I think the people who hate Kellhus a priori, based on simplistic/unrealistic or too-rapid expectations, are making a big mistake. This is a story of complexity, and expecting a character to be good or evil (or of that contrived "shade of gray" that's so popular right now) from the get-go is not exactly very realistic. Kellhus is a character who is growing and developing, and in ways which are so ambiguous that many will think he's bound to do good while others'll still keep seeing him as a monster for a good while. I can tell however that in the end (when he starts doing good -- or as much good as a human being (if he is truly human <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->) can be expected to do -- for sound motives that have nothing to do with self-interest) he'll be much more appreciated precisely because he was able to shed all that made him truly alien and "evil" to begin with. view post

The Destruction of the Dunyain posted 27 April 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Destruction of the Dunyain by White Lord, Subdidact

I'm in agreement with almost everything Andrew wrote. A few comments:

1. The Dunyain are obviously safe for a good while, just as you said, but ultimately they will be found, and what's important is how fast that'll happen: will it be before or after the beginning of the Apocalypse? You obviously see that the location of Ishual, and the mentality of the Dunyain, make them as likely to side with or against the Consult, and the nearby presence of the Nonmen makes for an explosive mix, especially if the Dunyain do in fact join the Nonmen.

2. With regard to sorcery I think it's safe to assume that Moenghus only contacted people he knew before leaving Ishual, and that he chose more than one for simple security/redundancy; I also think that for two-way communication both sides would have to belong to the Few, but for one-way communication I expect all one'd have to do was know the person and the location to send these dreams.

3. Regarding your speculations on the Dunyain having sorcerous potential, all things are possible, but I'd first like to know if there are any more Anasurimbor at Ishual (something Scott has refused to answer <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->) and also how much Anasurimbor blood is in the rest of the Dunyain. I think the Anasurimbor line may be hereditary sorcerers (remember they are descended from a Nonman, and if he was a Quya it could be that every future generation has this ability, or at least a very significant number of descendants unlike other humans). view post

A few questions . . . posted 27 April 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Triple-J&quot;:s2pswjos
It's entirely possible that the third book will resolve all of my concerns. Of course, it could also only make them worse! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> For what it's worth -- and again, I realize that my problems with Kellhus are not necessarily shared by your other readers -- I would suggest that if Kellhus does turn out to be a prophet, you need to explain:
(a) what it means to be a prophet
(b) why being a prophet would give him special powers
(c) what made him a prophet/how he became one

Without at least basic answers to these questions, the revelation that Kellhus really is a prophet wouldn't help us understand the events of the first two books.[/quote:s2pswjos]

TTT is supposed to be heavy on the metaphysics of Earwa, which should explain a lot of what you (and we all <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->) ask and more besides. One reason why I can't wait for the book to be out; it's a hell making predictions with next to no knowledge of one of the most important dimensions of the story.

Now a question for the author <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->:

I'm interested in the existence of surviving (human) Gnostic sorcerers (or 'underground' Schools) in the North. From what we know, at least two human cities have survived, virtually isolated, and encircled by numerous and dangerous enemies, for close to two millennia; there are also numerous human tribes scattered throughout the North. So the existence of Gnostic sorcerers where the art was most widespread would be a plausible supposition . . .

Am I right in thinking the Mandate are not the only School/group of human sorcerers that has knowledge of the Gnosis at this present?

Thanks a lot! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

livin n dyin in TTT posted 01 May 2005 in The Thousandfold Thoughtlivin n dyin in TTT by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Atanvarno&quot;:6p2dld2u
Aye, I'd never really considered that the Consult might have access to sorcery (be it Gnostic or ortherwise), and assumed they had the Tekne alone. In this I may be wrong, and probably am considering the resources of the Consult.[/quote:6p2dld2u]

The Consult as such is a cabal of generals and sorcerers, as you can see from the faction guide in the book. In fact Golgotterath was "reactivated" by a Gnostic School of the Ancient North (the Mangaecca), so there's no doubt they know and use Gnostic sorcery. (The Tekne seems to be some sort of bioscience that only the Inchoroi know and use -- don't think they have shared this with their human and nonmen allies, too important to give up so easily. Also, since the Inchoroi were/are a star-faring, technical society you can assume they have at least the theoretical knowledge of what we consider advanced science, even though they probably don't have the resources/tools to turn it into weapons).

Quote: &quot;Atanvarno&quot;:6p2dld2u
However, this does make me wonder, unlike men the Consult may actually understand how the chorae work, thier metaphysics, etc. which then begs the question, have the worked out a way to block them? All pure speculation of course, but a possibility none the less.[/quote:6p2dld2u]

They ought to know all on Chorae since they were the ones who created them in the first place (or the Inchoroi, really . . .). If you check one of the old threads in the Q&amp;A section you'll find an answer by Scott on Chorae. Basically what he said is: Chorae were invented by renegade Nonmen sorcerers, who defected to the Inchoroi, at the time of the Cuno-Inchoroi Wars. Seems the Inchoroi were losing the war because, though they had advanced technological weapons, they had no sorcery. The renegade Nonmen sorcerers developed the Aporos (a branch of the Gnosis). The Aporos (sorcery of contradictions) can unravel and render meaningless any Cant or sorcery. So to return to the Chorae: they are metallic spheres, with Choric or Aporetic runes engraved on them. So it seems that without the runes with their unraveling spell they would be just that, metallic balls. From this it's obvious that the Aporos is capable not only of nullifying Gnostic and Anagogic sorcery, but also of instantly killing a sorcerer. I asked Scott if Aporetic sorcery can be used for offensive spells (such as blocking a Chorae, which is basically a frozen Aporetic Cant anyone can wield) and he didn't answer since it would be a spoiler. So basically, if we learn from the book that Aporetic sorcerers can stop one another's spells, then, yes, Chorae can be stopped. Guess we'll have to wait till TTT or later for an answer.

Quote: &quot;Atanvarno&quot;:6p2dld2u
Also, on an off topic point. If men possess so few trinkets, then why have chorae bowmen? This always bugged me: a chorae is such a precious item, that cannot be replaced, and jealously guraded by the nobility. Indeed, the gift of several chorae to the Scarlet Spires was enough to make them sit up and take serious notice. Yet these things are fashioned into arrows, and fired away (yes, to great affect), yet retrieving an arrow is a difficult task, it always seemed such a waste, unsustainable in fact.

Say if there were as many as ten thousand chorae in the hands of men (which I highly doubt, if it's ten times fewer I'd still be surprised), take two thousand years of wars after the Apocalypse in which chorae bowmen are used... the damn things would run out at some point. Perhaps I should ask Scott.[/quote:6p2dld2u]

Your number is actually dead-on. If you check Book 1 (where Achamian speaks with the Quorum in Atyersus) you'll see that the Thousand Temples alone have some five thousand Chorae, with an equal number held by the nobility throughout the Three Seas. As for them all being made into arrows, that's impossible. If you consider the numbers of sorcerers, as a whole, over the entire continent, I seriously doubt that there are even five thousand, and how many sorcerers do you think would be present at any one battle? I doubt if you would find more than twenty of them. So basically most Chorae would be worn by the nobility, and foot soldiers or cavalry (remember the Shrial Knights) for protection, with sufficient chorae bowmen to try and deal with the sorcerers. As for your question about loss of Chorae, well it all depends on who wins the battle: if you have defeated the sorcerers and the army that was supporting them you basically have possession of the battlefield, with all the time in the world to fine-comb it searching for the arrows (and this was a common practice on medieval battlefields). view post

A few questions . . . posted 01 May 2005 in Author Q &amp; AA few questions . . . by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Cu'jara Cinmoi&quot;:1hjm5l6k
Am I right in thinking the Mandate are not the only School/group of human sorcerers that has knowledge of the Gnosis at this present?


<!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->[/quote:1hjm5l6k]

Well at least I got this one right . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

A few questions about Aporetic sorcery and Chorae:

1. You said Aporetic sorcery was used by the defecting Nonmen Quya to make Chorae. So I'd like to know if these defectors were the only Quya who knew/developed the Aporos or if there were/are any loyal Quya left who know and use the Aporos. Also do the Consult/Inchoroi still have practitioners of the Aporos or know how to make any new Chorae?

2. I'm interested in the effects of two clashing Aporetic cants: do they cancel each other out? Would an Aporetic sorcerer stand a chance of destroying a Chorae (which I assume is a frozen Aporetic cant that any mundane can use) directed against him?

3. The exact reason why Chorae instantly destroy a sorcerer. I assume this happens because sorcerers, while crafting a Cant are actually imbuing it with some of their essence, and that the Chorae, unraveling the Cant also unravel the place within the sorcerer from where the sorcery comes from -- and so, unraveling this metaphysical link results in the unfortunate <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> side effect of turning them into a pillar of salt. Anything to this?

Thanks! view post

livin n dyin in TTT posted 02 May 2005 in The Thousandfold Thoughtlivin n dyin in TTT by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:2xnbe1ik
We've gone off topic, but Cnaiur mentioned that his trinket was among a gift from the No-god to his people (this makes sense if the chorae originated from the Inchoroi and the rogue Non-men). Quite possibly, the Scylvendi probably possessed a lot of trinkets. They had never been defeated on the field and had 1000's of years history of looting and pillaging. After Kiyuth of course all those trinkets wold now be in the hands of the Nansur.[/quote:2xnbe1ik]

Well I suspect that after they joined the No-God they were given a second batch of Chorae. The Chorae they had before (along with the Chorae all the other nations have) were given to men a long time before that. Actually the surviving Inchoroi, after they'd been defeated by the Nonmen, somehow contacted the five tribes while they were still in Eanna. They gave them the Chorae and knowledge on how to break the Gates of Earwa. This started the migration described in the Tusk and the Cuno-Halaroi Wars (Halaroi is the Nonman name for Men) and the near-obliteration of the Nonmen. So you see, the Inchoroi actually almost succeeded in defeating the Nonmen through surrogates. It's ironic that 2000 years later they attempted to wipe out Men as well. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> You can't trust the bastards . . .

At any rate it would be interesting to know if this second batch of Chorae the Scylvendi received was some sort of remnant from the Cuno-Inchoroi Wars, or if they still know how to make them. It'd be very awkward for men to fight a Consult who could rain showers of Chorae on any battlefield . . .

As to numbers and current location of Scylvendi Chorae your guess is as good as mine . . .

A more important question would be: What and where is the Heron Spear? It was last seen in Cenei, and the Scylvendi sacked that city. So I guess it could be either destroyed or hanging in some chieftain's yaksh as a useless trophy . . . I get the impression the thing could still play some role, since it knocked out the No-God in Round One. view post

Should Kellhus learn the Gnosis? posted 02 May 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtShould Kellhus learn the Gnosis? by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:2magpvgs
Just a question connected to chorae. Kellhus is a man of prodigal intellect and prodigal reflexes – no one we’ve seen in the Three Seas can compete with him intellectually or physically. It might be that his learning the Gnosis would complete the package (i.e. he would become the ultimate warrior/prophet/sorceror/sage) . Nevertheless by uttering a cant he would,
(i) earn the enmity of the laity (i.e. shades of “thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” etc. Censure of and sanction against sorcerors and witches seem to be fairly potent in the the Three Seas,
(ii) more importantly, he would render himself vulnerable to chorae. Of course Kellhus’ reflexes allow him to pick crossbow bolts out of midair. If he becomes a sorceror he will have to check that the arrows/quarrels etc directed at him in battle do not have a chorae attached.

Other temporal powers in the Three Seas (i.e. the Nansur Emperor, Maithanet – I know he is not temporal!) can hold office without exercising sorcerous powers themselves, indeed the Nansur emperor directs a School. So should Kellhus learn sorcery?[/quote:2magpvgs]

I think that by the end of TTT there will be a drastic reevaluation of sorcery. Everyone thinks sorcerers are sinners, but they do so because they believe that men should not "ape" the gods since they are not godlike. This is what the "gods" of the Tusk say, this is what human narrowmindedness and bigotry believe.

However, and if you do a search on the net -- [url=http&#58;//www&#46;angelfire&#46;com/co/COMMONSENSE/gnosis&#46;html:2magpvgs]check this for an overview on gnosticism[/url:2magpvgs] -- about gnostic esoterics (I advise reading the linked page since it's important for my reasoning below) you'll see that most gnostics believe that the god that created the material world (the demiurge), and his servants (the archons) are not the true authors of all creation, but an unknowable Eternal Creator who is the source of all light. So whatever the gods of the Tusk or the God of the Inrithi say may not necessarily be true or "good" if we can follow gnostic esoterics far enough through the storyline.

Basically the Supreme Being (who is the only one "uncreated" because he came before everything and created everything by exploding himself -- think a spiritual big bang event) caused his light to spread in all directions and as this light in the form of light-creatures (called the aeons) got farther from him it became dimmer, more polluted and unaware of the Creator. The human soul is nothing if not an aeon (a part of the Supreme Being himself trapped in a prison of flesh by the ignorance and conceitedness of the Demiurge who thinks himself the true god and makes it very difficult for man to return to the Father i.e. the Supreme Being) so is a sorcerer who uses the Gnosis really a sinner or is he the man who has the advantage of understanding more easily than most others his own divine nature and the ability to start the return to the Father?

It is also interesting that the gnostics admit the existence of three categories of men: the pneumatics -- those who have the most spiritual empathy, those who can achieve the Gnosis with the least effort (you can think of them as the Few from Scott's books); the psychics -- those who have less emphatic ability than the pneumatics but who can achieve the Gnosis through the rules of some religion that contains Truth (could this be what the Cishaurim are? Remember they reject the Aspects of God as demons.); and lastly the hyletics: materialists who are entirely under the spell of the Demiurge and who are so far misled that they will not even try to believe that they may be a part of a great divine being -- basically most of the religious bigots in the world of Earwa.

So if you examine the situation regarding sorcery in the Three Seas you can see the Few as being the pneumatics of gnostic esoterism, the ones who can find the truth more easily than others; they themselves however only use the God's creative power without understanding their true role in the metaphysical scheme of things, and here I see the great role of Kellhus. Since I think he is the Logos of the True God, the wisdom of the God, I believe he is here to give the sorcerers a true spiritual direction, making them the true priests of the God, warriors against the Demiurge (could the No-God be the demiurge, or one of his archons maybe?) and his tyranny over men.

Now I admit that there may not be a total correspondence between gnostic and kindred esoterics and what Scott is trying to show us, still it's interesting to note the similarities, and speculate on where the story is going from this point of view.

Looking forward to some discussion on this. view post


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