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Crusader posted 25 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

Hey, whilst loving every moment of the Prince of Nothing, i jus couldn't help but notice the striking similarity to the events of the First Crusade, even in some of the names. I was just wondering if anyone else had made this observation. I have to congratulate the author on taking such an enigmatic period of history and using it to weave an awesome story in another world.

I thiink it's a really good thing to do this because history is often looked down upon as pointless nowadays, yet history is basically one big story and the Crusades are possibly the most evocative and gripping episodes in history.

Anyway, as i said, i was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this and if anyone had anything to say on this sbject or anything similar? view post


Crusader posted 25 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

hey!
who's looking at history as POINTLESS?????????
who are they! lemme at 'em!!
it's foolish people's ability to FORGET and inability to learn from mistakes, apathetic imbiciles that refuse to pay attention to history, that has gotten this pathetic country in the heinous predicament it's in now!!!!!
history pointless?????


oops. i over-emoted there. view post


Crusader posted 25 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

Well said, but which country are you referring to?

Many people i know consider history as pointless when you look at things like the Crusades and Medieval History etc. They think it more pertinent to consider more recent history and modern developments. I can see their reasoning, yet i dont think its the best idea. Looking at histry propperly allows you to grasp just how and why we have developed to the places we find oursleves in today. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

well now you know someone who DOESN'T think that way! <!-- s:o --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_surprised.gif" alt=":o" title="Surprised" /><!-- s:o -->

and don't you have the little flaggies on the (dare i say it?) LEFT of your screen there? check the one under my name if you wonder, when i'm whining, which country i'm whining about!! hahahahahaha!


Looking at histry propperly allows you to grasp just how and why we have developed to the places we find oursleves in today.


correctly said, and empires fall, don't they.
(you caught me at a good moment, i'm watching the history channel's version of the French Revolution just now!! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> )

at any rate, historical or historically based fiction seems less of a fiction, doesn't it. one of the things i enjoy about Prince of Nothing. verisillitude and all that. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

i mean...verisimillitude. have to type that word as slowly as i have to say it! hahaha. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

Nice word. Verisimilitude is one of those great big words that make you feel good just saying them <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

I kinda guessed where you were talking about, i just didnt want to be presumptious. Its good to know there are others in the world who like history. I mean, i feel silly saying that because i know so many historians its almost unreal, but its still good to know.

I dont have history channel here, i only have the freeview channels, gutted. I'll just have to make do with my books and imagination. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Alric, Auditor

That's a rather good catch, and I'd imagine if you looked at some of the commentary in the Prince of Nothing sections you'll probably find some discussion around the 1st Crusade and the shaping of this series. It is rather obvious that the 1st Crusade is a model that Scott looked to when crafting the depth and polictical climate of his story.

I have a degree in history, double focus of classic (Rome) and the medieval period (primarily pre-Norman England), I find novels that make an effort to incorporate the feel and complexity of history, from any period, tend to have a far richer and complete background for their stories. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

Exactly. I've almost finished my degree in Ancient and Medieval History. My focus is more on the Medieval period, but rather than just Engalnd i cover the Biritsh Isles, France and the Crusader States mainly. Or at least, those are the subjects i have done most work on. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

HaH! i LOVE historians!!!! they come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and configurations!!!!! historians are some of the few people worth talking to!

i'm also in school right now. have not declared major because i am finishing up gen requirements before transferring to a 4 year program at a "real" university!!! however...i'm thinking history. i would like to teach at university level. my dream job...standing in front of a captive audience (who love me) talking for hours about stuff that i'm passionate about! voila! history teacher!!!! hahahahahaha!

turn ons: noble savages, sleezy homicide detectives with gravelly voices, and historians <!-- s:!: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" /><!-- s:!: --> view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

Yeah, thats what id like to do too, but it means im really going to have to start working soon. Ive got a dissertation to start, but im struggling to start it. We shall have to see. What do you mean by going to a 'real' university? Where you at now? view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

what time is it there?


sorry, i mean that i'm at a community college. City College of San Francisco. it's a college designed to give people like me (adult and impoverised) a way to play catch up with academics or for younger individuals to get trade type degrees (which only take 2 ys as opposed to a 4 yr bachelors degree) a lot of people use it to get their general requirement out of the way before transferring to a 4 year university that will be more expensive!! it's only 26 bucks a credit unit (of which most courses are 3 credit unit courses) which is a lot more affordable than any 4 year university in california.

it's a great school, tho'. i've had inspiring history teachers, if you couldn't tell! view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

It's 19.43 here at the mo. I know what you mean about expenses. I really want to do a postgraduate course, but the way things are looking, i wont be able to afford it. Still, before i worry about that, i have to get my First Class degree......hmmmmm view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

yeah, to teach at university level i'll have to have a Masters. i'm not even going to think about graduate school until i have to. you're probably closer to teaching than i am right now.
still, i intend to stay in school until some one gives me a degree just to get rid of me!!!! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

but back to our discussion, sort of...

i am interested in the british isles as well, scotland in particular, jacobite risings, king james, bonnie prince charlie and all that. got interested in that from the Gabaldon Outlander series. i also like, in a general way, western civilization. from minoans to ww II. i haven't decided how to focus yet. i wonder how hard it would be to learn gaelic. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

I imagine, quite. I really struggle with Latin, although i havent really had much opportunity to learn it, and when i did, i didnt really try. I don't really cover Scotland outside it's relations with England during the Medieval period. The stuff you would be looking it is well outside my area, my brain kinda switches off then, i love the earlier stuff. The foundations of Europe and all that.

Well not quite the foundations, but you know what i mean. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

no, what do you mean? talk history to me. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

I mean the why of how Europe has developed to become what it is today. Medieval Europe provides a great insight into the politics of today and the national character and identities of many of it's leading nations. It also provides a very subtle insight into the workings of America. Or at least, so my friends and i believe. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

oh yes, i agree heartily with your friends and you. and i don't think the insight is so subtle either (into america, i mean). consider the roman empire. import as opposed to export. looks familiar, doesn't it? patterns. psychohistory. harry seldon. (Foundation) i am constantly seeing patterns in history. not limited to western civilization. so sociology figures in heavily for me. cultures. zeitgeist. world religions. all facinating, really. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

oh yes, and i forgot to ask...what's your dissertation on? view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

My dissertation was hopefully going to be on the Reign of King Stephen. However, the vast wealth of material and the general 'done to death' nature of this period greatly restricted what i could do. I couldn't see any new insights or arguements to present a valid case for writing my dissertation on this, and, due to it being an 'original work', re-assesing, re-defining and re-enforcing other historians' views and theories didn't really fit the bill.

Therefore, it was decided between myself and my tutor that we would consider 'Succession politics of the Twelfth Century'. A grandiose title basically meaning, who succeeded, where and why. I'm not totally comfortable with this yet though, because im finding it difficult to sift out the necessary info from the primary sources. It should all hopefully work out though, and im sure it will become easier and clearer once i begin to work on it propperly.

I think i will be looking at succession in England, France and Outremer. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

how very specific of you! i envy your focus!! i just can't land on any one period yet, much less any specific aspects. but then, i've only recently decided between history and english. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

To get back to the point on America, we tought it an insight more into the Imperial nature of the US. I dont mean any offense if you can read any into it, but the 'states' are basically countries in their own right, just united by one common language, monetary unit and economy. Unfortunately, as for being a democracy, what you appear to have is more of an Empire, with someone using their Sith powers to control and run things, because i doubt G.B. can do it. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaha!!!!!!!

the Sith (or Dirty Dick, as he is affectionately known here in the old Stars and Stripes!) hahahahaha!!!!!!!

you are so carefully funny!!!!!!!!

don't imagine i'm the american you could offend with this discussion!! i'm just amazed that anyone in the rest of the world is willing to speak to any of us at the moment!!!! and just for the record, it's not MY empire!!!!! and he's not MY emperor!!!!


we tought it an insight more into the Imperial nature of the US


and regarding the imperial nature, ironic isn't it? that the mother country should at long last be able to waggle their tongues at the baby country and say "nah nah nah nah nah, you're bigger imperialists than we are!!"
hahahahahahaha!!! view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

Yeah, that is quite funny. Britain isnt realy imperialistic anymore though, however im sure Tony Blair would love that. We dont have a true democracy at any rate. But then again, the Greeks invented democracy and even they didnt manage a true one. I think a Biritish comedian, Bill Bailey summs up our 'special relationship' best:

America is like the school bully, collering other nations and demanding 'Give us you rlunch money'; and Britain is just the nerdy kid who leans round round behind them and says 'Yeah'. Much funnier live obviously. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

hahahahahahahah!!!
very funny!!!
funny even in print!!!

so i'm just waiting and watching (regarding world politics) and corollating.
because i think history DOES repeat itself. patterns.

now i will go to the library and see if i can find a good layman's book on the first crusades. do you have any suggestions?

did simon schama do anything on the crusades? i love simon.
see, i told you i'm a geek. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

Simon Schama is a legend, but i dont think he did. Now to be geeky, here are the best sources in my eyes:

Terry Jones for a very basic, easy, fun look at the crusades.

H.E. Mayer has possibly the best book, but a lot more complex and in depth. Called 'The Crusades' it covers all the crusades.

Martin Scott is older, but another easy look with 'Medieval Europe'

There is 'The Crusades' by M. Paine

J. Riley-Smith is quite a prolific author

Also look out for:

Steve Runciman
Jonathon Harris
Carole Hillenbrand (excelent for Muslim perspective)
Jonathon Philips
Ruth Macrides (mainly cause shes one of my lecturers)
Joshua Prawer

There are many more, in fact there is a brand new assessment of the First Crusade out that i really want to read, but cant quite remember who wrote it yet. I think the first 4 crusades are the most interesting, and the Children's Crusade is a wonderfully sad story to look into. They ae all very interesting to learn about though. view post


Crusader posted 26 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by Lucimay, Subdidact

okay! ask a historian for a reference!!!! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

i'll be printing that little list out, thank you very much!!!

so simon is legend? i love simon. i just LOVE a good storyteller!!! which is why you find me here in this forum!!! and simon is a good storyteller. view post


Crusader posted 28 July 2005 in Off-Topic DiscussionCrusader by target, Auditor

Almost forgot, Terry Deary. His Horrible histories books can be invaluable. One of my friends who is far too clever for is own good revised for his A-Levels from Horrible Histories 'The Stormin' Normans' and still got an A.

Git. view post


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