the archives

dusted off in read-only

  •  

Prince of Nothing on TV/Big Screen posted 13 Jul 2005, 19:07 by superkeer, Candidate

I'm sure a lot of writers are hesistant to endanger the integrity of their work by adapting their stories to either television or movies, but... there are so many epic visuals in this series thus far that I'm curious if Mr. Bakker is hopeful that someone will pick up his tale for production. I'd think it would make an excellent miniseries, say, on HBO. Fifteen hour-long episodes per book, massive budget, the best of the best in the business involved in the production... I've got no doubt that there would be a big enough audience, comprised of both fans of the book and fans of intelligent storytelling. I wish I knew someone in the business, so I could offer a "hook-up." Unfortunately I can only offer my services as an extra in a battle scene or something. Ah well... view post


posted 13 Jul 2005, 21:07 by Deerow, Auditor

I dunno if it would work. It would either have to be so watered-down (ie the violence against women, sexual content, general social climate) or altered drastically to meet the needs of the average consumer (ie Kellhus would only do good instead of doing what is in his own interest, everyone is shiny and happy, zero philosophical undertones). I mean, if an [i:3f2zweyl]accurate[/i:3f2zweyl] tv series or movie could be made I'd watch it for sure. Just afraid that the second these big movie publishers get an idea in their head they immediate cut away and alter main parts so that it looks near-enough identical to every other movie out there. Just my thoughts on it though. view post


posted 13 Jul 2005, 23:07 by Cynical Cat, Auditor

Well, the Sopranos and Deadwood show a large TV audience can and will watch morally questionable characters. Trying to do something on the scale of the First Crusade on a tv budget is pretty tough. A movie would have to cut a lot out to fit and that would be hard to do without gutting the story. Honestly, I wouldn't expect it anytime soon. In a way, it is quite reassuring. The fact that other entertainment mediums can't do it is another reason why we can expect the novel to live on. view post


posted 13 Jul 2005, 23:07 by superkeer, Candidate

[quote="Cynical Cat":cfnm0204]Well, the Sopranos and Deadwood show a large TV audience can and will watch morally questionable characters. Trying to do something on the scale of the First Crusade on a tv budget is pretty tough.[/quote:cfnm0204] I am optimistic that TV budgets will soon be on the level as big budget hollywood releases. Some of the HBO budgets are already reaching that point.. then again, they often spread it out over much more content. I'm hoping that the upcoming miniseries on "[url=http://www.hbo.com/rome/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category0_show5:cfnm0204]Rome[/url:cfnm0204]" will reveal some of the extent that TV producers are willing to go financially (this first season of Rome is said to have been [url=http://www.darkhorizons.com/news04/040405a.php:cfnm0204]budgeted at $75 million[/url:cfnm0204]). It's all wishful thinking, of course. Seeing Bakker's vision (undoubtedly he'd have to have tons of input into a production) would be a nice complement to my own mental images from reading the story.[/quote] view post


posted 14 Jul 2005, 02:07 by Deerow, Auditor

[quote="Cynical Cat":1vj06qhy]Well, the Sopranos and Deadwood show a large TV audience can and will watch morally questionable characters. [/quote:1vj06qhy] True enough. Somehow I still don't think people would accept a gritty world like Earwa when the only other fantasy stuff most people out there know is [i:1vj06qhy]Lord of the Rings[/i:1vj06qhy]...which, while amazing, is a lot more watered-down and pleasant (for lack of a better term). I think Earwa would shock a lot of the fantasy-newbies which isn't what PoN is aimed at in novel form...but would be what it would be aimed at in movie/tv show form (as it is all about selling tickets/ad slots). view post


posted 14 Jul 2005, 04:07 by Cynical Cat, Auditor

[quote="Deerow":3of3sjtg] Somehow I still don't think people would accept a gritty world like Earwa when the only other fantasy stuff most people out there know is [i:3of3sjtg]Lord of the Rings[/i:3of3sjtg]...which, while amazing, is a lot more watered-down and pleasant (for lack of a better term). I think Earwa would shock a lot of the fantasy-newbies which isn't what PoN is aimed at in novel form...but would be what it would be aimed at in movie/tv show form (as it is all about selling tickets/ad slots).[/quote:3of3sjtg] That's a marketing problem. A possible solution is selling it both as an epic fantasy and as something akin to a historical epic, which people will accept as being dirty and nasty. view post


posted 17 Jul 2005, 18:07 by H, Auditor

A possible 'under-appreciated' alternative could be to do the series as an animated show. This would dramatically reduce the cost to make it, plus it would just look damn cool too. Hell, look at how popular that Star Wars: Clone Wars show is, and it is essentially a kids show with terrible animation... My problem lately with Japanesse animation is the lack of origional concepts (and not to mention 'adult' themes too). A gritty fantasy work like PoN could be an amazing subject, and if done well, could actually give some reputablity to American animation as an 'adult' medium. view post


posted 17 Jul 2005, 20:07 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

The success of clone wars was primarily due to the saga it is a part of...Star Wars. Love ir ot hate it Star Wars is bigger in terms of sheer marketing power than any other fantasy epic out there. I think it dwarfs even the Lord of the Rings. I'm not a fan of turning something like PoN into an animated series, probably because I do have a bias against anime in general. (It's kind of funny the comment about the adult themes in anime...in japan anime is for adults and is highly sexual in nature) but something about it just...bothers me I guess. Although more expensive real people doing live action translates alot better for most people I think. Also I think the style of PoN and the general style of most anime's I have seen seem to clash in my opinion. view post


posted 18 Jul 2005, 01:07 by saintjon, Auditor

shinichiro watanabe could pull it off if anyone could, don't know if that's his kind of thing or not though. Regardless, there's no other big name anime director I know of right now who's that able or willing to depart from the traditional manga look, which really wouldn't work for this (facial expressions/anatomy being so central to the story, plus anime's always TOO CLEAN LOOKING!) These are weird times when an animted feature would cost less. To be honest, I'm not certain an animated feature that was done to the quality PoN deserves WOULD cost less. Animation is about as expensive as you want it to be really. Anyways, I'm not sure even if you could find someone who would be true to the material how well you could convey kellhus without hearing all that inner dialogue. I mean, you can only have so many inner thought voice-overs in a movie right? And where are they going to find a 6'3" adonis who can pass off genius intellect in Hollywood? I guess they're out there but are any of them acting? I haven't seen anyone like that. view post


posted 18 Jul 2005, 02:07 by H, Auditor

Well, yeah more anime in Japan is adult in the sense that it contains a rediculous ammount of sexual innuendos, or is hentai. I was meaning a more adult story like, as in a more realistic or gritty storyline. Most anime's are about 13 year old gils who get transported back in time, or about a kid's rise to some skill level, or about giant robots. Sure, there are exceptions, but i haven't seen too many with what could be called a 'gritty' stroyline. (One could say Neon Genesis, or Cowboy Bebob could be exceptions.) Also, i do realize that no Japanese director would wnat to do such a series. Hence way i was saying that it would most probably have to be an American animation studio.... All in all, it would be tough to pull off, but i think it could be done, but like anything else, it would take a fair ammount of talent to write a convincing screen-play and make it look good... view post


posted 18 Jul 2005, 15:07 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Has anyone seen [i:23cktc97]Immortel[/i:23cktc97] yet? It's a CGI/live-action French SFF film that recently came out here. As interesting as I found it, I probably spent more time thinking about how PoN could be made in a similar fashion than anything else. It's the story that would make it difficult. Books can take you places movies can't, and PoN, I think, is one of those stories that turn in important ways on things that are inaccessible to the silver screen. But the sad fact is that so very, very, very few books get made into movies. I remember reading somewhere that even if your book gets optioned, the chances of it hitting the screen are still less than 1 in 100. This puts authors in a dilemma. Since the odds of a book making it to the screen are so small, shouldn't an author simply try to squeeze as much money as possible out of any offer for movie rights? If the chances are 99% that nothing will come of it, why fuss over questions of quality and control? I know I'll be an uptight prick regardless. Even if it is only 1%, I'm too much of a control freak to sign away something so cool. view post


posted 18 Jul 2005, 16:07 by Atropos, Commoner

As a matter of fact, I just watched it a week ago. Has to be one of the strangest movies I've seen in a long while (and I've seen a few). I personally think using CGI characters would be a mistake, especially on a lower budget film. CGI is a touchy medium, needing a lot of money to produce realistic effects. While [i:1umdashg]Immortal [/i:1umdashg] had some beautiful scenes of a futuristic NY, the characters were most lacking. I'd agree that books are unique in their ability to capture things that movies can't. Then again, movies can do things books can’t. It just makes the actor's job that much harder, to fill the gap that a movie creates, by removing the viewer's ability to read what the character is thinking and feeling. I think it could work rather nicely. Yes, if you do find yourself looking at a movie deal, please, please, be a prick and make sure the movie is made right. Oh, by the way, hello! I'm not a big "poster" but I had to chime in. Best of luck and thank you for two kick ass books and I can't wait for a third. view post


posted 02 Aug 2005, 14:08 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Thanks, Atropos! I agree, CGI characters would be a mistake. It was more the atmospherics and the setting I thinking about. Everything had this cool 'confusion of the ages' vibe I thought. view post


posted 02 Aug 2005, 19:08 by Scilvenas, Auditor

Immortal was definately different. It might have actually been good if it had been consistent. The animation was great at some parts, N64-ish almost at others. The plot was interesting, but was ultimately diluted by too many sub-plots. I could see it being a good series, but as a movie... view post


posted 17 Sep 2005, 23:09 by Niwatam, Commoner

I think the creation of this book into a movie is darn near impossible. One of the biggest things they would run into is the play on emotions that Kellhus uses and the different emotions thats constantly play havoc from within the characters. Without these factors I think the story would lose alot of its luster character wise. view post


PoN movie posted 20 Sep 2005, 15:09 by Anonymous, Subdidact

the only way to come close to a decent PoN movie would mean a cross between gladiator,lotr,and any clive barker movie.or think of an extreme r rated lotr and you might get close. view post


posted 26 Sep 2005, 03:09 by gyrehead, Candidate

[quote:s5qhzthl]It's the story that would make it difficult. Books can take you places movies can't, and PoN, I think, is one of those stories that turn in important ways on things that are inaccessible to the silver screen. [/quote:s5qhzthl] Any book that I love or even just really enjoy has already been filmed in the cinema of the mind. Casted, edited and caught in grand full technicolor. The idea of taking a great book and flattening to put on a screen for a couple of hours is sheer horror for me. I'd rather wish you a huge readership, Scott, and winning the lottery. Or some unknown relative dies and leaves you loads. But Hollywood fame and fortune is a huge step down for a skilled and talented author. To me that would be like coming to Picasso and tellinghim his greatest work has been sold. To MacDonalds to decorate the millions and millions of Happy Meal boxes sold across the world daily. view post


posted 18 Oct 2005, 12:10 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Yeah. You've touched on a couple of different issues that would worry me deeply if it came to that. Personally, the fact that so many things would have to be changed to make a story like PoN work on the big screen doesn't trouble me - different mediums have different demands - it's the prospect of losing [i:2pb7pwrb]control[/i:2pb7pwrb] over those changes to someone only motivated by money that freaks me out. I think I'd have a heart-attack if I saw a version with exploding carts and cheesy one-liners! view post


posted 20 Jan 2006, 18:01 by Dexious, Candidate

I agree with gyrehead. You would not want to sacrifice your story for a paycheck on a low budget fantasy movie that no one will watch (aside from your loyal fans who will surely be disappointed). It deserves much more. I think increasing your fan base will prove much more valuable. Let Hollywood come to you. You have talked of different mediums. Have you thought of graphic novels as an option? There is a world of comic book readers here in the U.S. who would love this story. If you work directly with the artist, I'm sure you would have the creative control to tell the story properly. Plus, the story board for a movie is already completed. Sad but true, there are powerful people in Hollywood who still need pictures with their stories (as do many Americans). Anyway, thanks for writing PoN. I've enjoyed the books and promote them to everyone I know who will appreciate the story. I look forward to TTT, which at the moment is still unavailable in book stores here. I got a tip from another fan to check out Indigo.ca. I'll look into it as my patience is wearing. view post


posted 21 Jan 2006, 17:01 by aergern, Commoner

[quote="Dexious":1j9no3ms] You have talked of different mediums. Have you thought of graphic novels as an option? There is a world of comic book readers here in the U.S. who would love this story. If you work directly with the artist, I'm sure you would have the creative control to tell the story properly. Plus, the story board for a movie is already completed. Sad but true, there are powerful people in Hollywood who still need pictures with their stories (as do many Americans).[/quote:1j9no3ms] Yes, this would be a good medium to tell related stories of PoN much like GRRM did with the Image comic The Hedge Knight. I doubt it would get a green light to be a full fledged monthy retelling of PoN but one never knows. It would take at least 48 issues per book to tell the story without any loss of story. If a PoN comic did come to be.. I know I'd plunk down my $2.99 every month. :) view post


posted 26 Jan 2006, 19:01 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I've toyed with the idea of various graphic versions - not necessarily in out and out comic book panel format. But like I say, I intend to be VERY persnickety about who and how anything from PoN gets adapted - IF that arises as a possibility. Only the future will tell. view post


posted 26 Jan 2006, 23:01 by Tol h'Eddes, Auditor

How does it works normally? Is it the author who decides to approach a new media (TV, comic book, etc.)? Or the artist who ask the author if they can adapt their works? view post


posted 27 Jan 2006, 18:01 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Adaptations are so rare that no one below a certain level of popularity actually searches for them. All you can do is keep your hook in the water. view post


  •  

The Three Seas Forum archives are hosted and maintained courtesy of Jack Brown.