Three Seas Forum

the archives

dusted off in read-only

  •  

Nonmen who and what are they? posted 14 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Aengales, Candidate

Ok i've been confused about the Nonmen since first book, my confusions comes directly from when Kellhus had a sword fight with the Nonmen in the jungle close to Attrithau (i dont have the book currently next to me excuse the spelling <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> ) . He (the Nonmen) said that the humans where there pet then now the Sranc are there pets...

Can someone clear up my confusion.... <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: --> view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 14 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by White Lord, Subdidact

The Nonmen (Cunuroi) are the original (oldest) race of Earwa.

Their history goes back more than 15 thousand years. They held one of the races of Man (the Emwama of the Tusk) enslaved for a long time. They also fought a number of wars against the Inchoroi, a race of aliens.

In the course of these wars they were victims of Inchoroi bioscience. At some point they became barren (hence their adoption of Men as their "children"). After the overthrow of the Inchoroi they started suffering from the effects of the artificial immortality the Inchoroi had given them (in the form of forgetfulness of the "tamer" emotions/memories).

They started feasting on negative emotions, which were the easiest to remember. This is why one of their number (Mekeritrig) revealed the location of the Inchoroi stronghold of Golgotterath to what would become the Consult. (Mekeritrig is the Nonman who fought against Kellhus.)

There are some posts by Scott on the Nonmen in the Q&amp;A section. You should check those out as well. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 15 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Aengales, Candidate

Inchoroi, a race of aliens. ....In the course of these wars they were victims of Inchoroi bioscience.


Now im even more confused, i thought the Inchoroi where a native race in Earwa, or like a race of demons (like the one Iyokus called:?:)

Are the Inchoroi aliens in the sense of ET, or alien to of Earwa (demons ? ) view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 15 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by White Lord, Subdidact

Yes, the Inchoroi are space aliens. Golgotterath was built over the crash site of their spaceship. They arrived on Earwa several thousand years before Men crossed the Great Kayarsus. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 15 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Aengales, Candidate

Ok I never even thought that the Inchoroi as aliens

Where was this explained/introduced ? And which book too ? view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 15 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by White Lord, Subdidact

I don't have the books by me, but you should check TWP. I think something gets said at the meeting Achamian has with the Great Names in Caraskand. He says the Inchoroi are "the greatest terror ever to fall from the sky" or some such. Then also at the very end of the book, in the scene of Aengelas, the Inchoroi says that, aside from his brother, he was the last of those "who fell from the void".

Hope this helps. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 15 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Aengales, Candidate

I remember Akka saying that to the great names...

Im going to read the part of Aengales again.

One more question, why are the Inchoroi "raping" people a lot, like Sarcellus he thought once "to cut her head and f**k it" about Esmenet... view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 15 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Aengales&quot;:3bszfg3c
One more question, why are the Inchoroi "raping" people a lot, like Sarcellus he thought once "to cut her head and f**k it" about Esmenet...[/quote:3bszfg3c]

Well, they get introduced in the books, (in one of those excerpts at the beginning of a chapter) as the "race of flesh and lovers".

They developed the Tekne (cloning/gene manipulation technology) to create "living sculptures", as a form of perverse art. The Sranc, Bashrag, Dragons are all results of the Tekne, weapons they used in their wars against the Nonmen. They use sexual instincts/hungers which are hardwired in their creations to direct their actions. The only way a skin-spy or a Sranc can get gratification is by obeying his masters, i.e. killing someone or torturing etc. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 15 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Da-krul, Auditor

Move over scott, White Lord is gunning for your job view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 16 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Quinthane, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Da-krul&quot;:1cpfcmbm
Move over scott, White Lord is gunning for your job[/quote:1cpfcmbm]


[size=150:1cpfcmbm]WHITE LORD BIOGRAPHY MATERIAL UNEARTHED[/size:1cpfcmbm]




Fellow WhiteLordians,

After unearthing the lost (discarded?) transcripted posts from the PoN message board, I realized that there’s more to be learned about the W. Lord of Queries to whom we’ve offered up absolutly no allegiance and (test results allowing) will buy him some kidney beans.

I retraced my steps down the path that first led me to the lost post. It seems, however, that passwords have been changed and a firewall installed. (I’m not certain if this is due to a recent security breach or if R. Scott is experiencing dead-line induced paranoia and has had a cease and dissist order filed against WL. His personal diary makes no mention of it.) The study deepens. Always it deepens.

So, undeterred by these permutations,, I cast about for the shortest path with no security measures and decided to contact some of the people mentioned on the blah bla[size=75:1cpfcmbm]h bullshit blah balo[/size:1cpfcmbm][size=59:1cpfcmbm]ney blah bla...[/size:1cpfcmbm]




. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 16 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Aengales, Candidate

I read over the scene where Akka addresses the Great Names, and he does talk about the Inchoroi being from the void and also that when the first Gnostic sorcerers removed the glamour from Min-Uroikas/Golgotterath which "isnt of this world" and they found "terrible arnaments never brough to fruition". Ok, itn aint of this world because its a space-ship, they found arnaments im thinking phasers or such. And Tekne is "degenarate" because its scientific not "magic", but thats what they think it is. Also when Cnaiur was fighting Sarcellus he says "my flesh has been folded more times than the steel of your sword. Men are dogs and kine...But my kind are wolves in the forest,lions on the plain. We're sharks in the sea..." I think the "thing called Sarcellus" was referring to the fact that he is just a juxtaposed jumble of meat pieces combined from animals .... I dont know...

So then, Mog-Pharau is just a alien super being ? Who everyone (Consult, Scylvendi) think is some sort of God (or No-God) ? Why it's just Stargate SG-1 again <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.

Has Scott confirmed the fact that the Inchoroi are aliens ? Or are we speculating ? view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 16 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Quinthane&quot;:jbsn7p2p
Quote: &quot;Da-krul&quot;:jbsn7p2p
Move over scott, White Lord is gunning for your job[/quote:jbsn7p2p]


[size=150:jbsn7p2p]WHITE LORD BIOGRAPHY MATERIAL UNEARTHED[/size:jbsn7p2p]




Fellow WhiteLordians,

After unearthing the lost (discarded?) transcripted posts from the PoN message board, I realized that there’s more to be learned about the W. Lord of Queries to whom we’ve offered up absolutly no allegiance and (test results allowing) will buy him some kidney beans.

I retraced my steps down the path that first led me to the lost post. It seems, however, that passwords have been changed and a firewall installed. (I’m not certain if this is due to a recent security breach or if R. Scott is experiencing dead-line induced paranoia and has had a cease and dissist order filed against WL. His personal diary makes no mention of it.) The study deepens. Always it deepens.

So, undeterred by these permutations,, I cast about for the shortest path with no security measures and decided to contact some of the people mentioned on the blah bla[size=75:jbsn7p2p]h bullshit blah balo[/size:jbsn7p2p][size=59:jbsn7p2p]ney blah bla...[/size:jbsn7p2p]




.[/quote:jbsn7p2p]

<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Scott hasn't complained yet, and I'm sure you wouldn't like it if he did . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Otherwise, if I get any more ribbing, I'll stop showering my vast knowledge on you undeserving philistines . . . <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 16 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Aengales&quot;:274xf1av
So then, Mog-Pharau is just a alien super being ?[/quote:274xf1av]

I wouldn't say he's alien like the Inchoroi, more likely something they discovered on Earwa, and through Nonman sorcery . . .

Quote: &quot;Aengales&quot;:274xf1av
Has Scott confirmed the fact that the Inchoroi are aliens ? Or are we speculating ?[/quote:274xf1av]

Yes, he's confirmed it; but really, there's no other conclusion you can draw after you've read the stuff that's said of them in the books . . . view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 16 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Fell, Peralogue

Regarding the Inchoroi as extraterrestrials, there is also the chapter — I think in TDTCB — where they talk about the sky. I believe it's Esmenet who describes what is the common social belief, about the night sky being something of a divine tarp or cloak stretched over the sky, with holes in it that allow the sunlight to twinkle through. Achamian contradicts her and explains that it's a vast void and all those twinkles are actually suns unto their own right, very far away.

There is something said about that being heathen talk, some sort of old folklore from an enemy belief system, and I think (but am unsure) that they refer to the Inchoroi. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 17 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Twayleph, Auditor

We've actually seen three conceptions of the sky (or space) so far.

The Scylvendi belief, expressed by Cnaiür, is that there is some sort of blanket recovering the world, and that the stars are in fact holes in this surface which let in the light of the outside. This is, to them, the proof that the world is not as it appears (everything is false save the People)

The common Inirithi belief, expressed by Esmenet, is that the Sun revolved around the Earth and the stars revolve around the Nail of Heaven.

The conception of the Inchoroi and Nonmen, explained by Achamian, is similar to our own beliefs. The world we know is a planet lost in an infinitely large, empty universe and the stars are faraway suns. The following citation confirms that the Inchoroi are indeed aliens :

Supposedly that's what the Inchoroi told [the Nonmen]. That they sailed here from stars that were suns.


Hopefully that'll clear things up <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 17 June 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Aengales, Candidate

Hopefully there wiill be more details explained in TTT... view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 05 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Deerow, Auditor

quite possible...they are "NON" men. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 06 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Aengales, Candidate

Now its getting interesting, non-men = robots, great idea man view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 06 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Mithfânion, Didact

That would be lame, wouldn't it?

I think it's a much cooler idea to think of them as native to Earwa, the most powerful people fighting against the alien Inchoroi. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 06 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Deerow, Auditor

How is it lame that they are robots but the Inchori came from outer space? It is a fusion of fantasy and sci-fi either way. While that usually wouldn't be my thing I like the concept of it being written from the perspective of someone existing in a fantasy-esque time period.

What would a robot be to someone who has no concept of advance mechanics? Well, it would be a "non-man."

What would a laser beam resemble? A spear of light perhaps?

There are probably dozens of other examples but I'm too lazy to figure them out. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 07 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: &quot;Deerow&quot;:1mbghiyk
What would a robot be to someone who has no concept of advance mechanics? Well, it would be a "non-man."[/quote:1mbghiyk]

I think you should explain how robots could suffer from bioweapons, namely the Womb-Plague Scott mentioned. Or why robots should have a "womb" in the first place. Or why a robot should bleed and go crazy like the Nonman in the Prologue of tDtCB does.

Really, this notion has nothing to support it, and in the framework of the story is rather silly really.

Then there is also the fact that Earwa was meant to be a pre-scientific world, and the arrival of the Inchoroi was a disruption that is still being healed. There would have been no know-how to manufacture mechanisms of this complexity, and who would have manufactured them in the first place?

In short, not much of an idea, and I'm prepared to bet it'll become clear pretty soon, if not with TTT then in the next book.

It would also be useful if the original poster would add more than that criptic one-liner, so we could have some idea of what he was trying to say and why . . . view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 07 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Grallon, Candidate

They're Earwa's equivalent of Middle-Earth's Eldars: more powerful in mind and body than humans, more beautiful too. So far Mr. Baaker has show great skill (as in very well done) in borrowing snippets of other stories and making them his own. Think of Khellus' people and their training - mirror image of the Bene Gesserit.



G. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 07 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Grallon, Candidate

Btw - has there been any hint as to the goal(s) of the Inchoroi &amp; the Consult ? Destruction or enslavement of the humans ? Why else would fertility be stoped ...



G. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 07 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Deerow, Auditor

WL: I'm not saying I'm 100% on board with the concept...I'm just saying that it is a possibility. I'm not sure about the details, I'm just entertaining the idea considering only Scott really knows what is and is not going on.

I'd personally prefer it if they weren't robots to be honest. It does seem like sort of a let down in the face of a lot of Scott's other seemingly genius ideas. The idea of the Inchori coming from space kind of took the wind out of my sails a bit to be honest, but that seems nothing in comparison to robots/androids/cyborgs/whatever running around Earwa. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 07 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Mithfânion, Didact

WL: I'm not saying I'm 100% on board with the concept...I'm just saying that it is a possibility.

AS WL says, it's not even that. We know they are organic, they reproduce, had original lifespans of about 400 years etc. view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 08 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by White Lord, Subdidact

I should also add that they are sorcerers too. And sorcery is inextricably bound to flesh and blood.

Not to mention that Scott has said what the Nonmen represent: fallen elves. So far as I know, Tolkien didn't have robotic elves in his books . . . <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

About the Inchoroi: well, who knows if in our own universe there are no other societies/species living like the Earwans do, and other more technically advanced ones living like the Inchoroi seemed to do. There is nothing off-putting in combining the two. After all, even if the Inchoroi were technically advanced, after all these millennia they have obviously been absorbed into Earwa, and I guess they had to give up on their technological advantages a long time ago, so that now they are legitimate players in what is going on, with no more potential advantages than anyone else.

And this is a long shot from postulating some robotic/mechanical societies on Earwa, prior or posterior to the Inchoroi's arrival. The only ones who had the means were the Inchoroi, and we all know they chose to go down another road. Quite the opposite in fact. It'll always be easier to manufacture biological rather than mechanical "life". view post


Nonmen who and what are they? posted 08 September 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNonmen who and what are they? by Deerow, Auditor

Fair enough. Guess we'll find out for sure sooner or later. view post


  •  

The Three Seas Forum archives are hosted and maintained courtesy of Jack Brown