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Finished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - posted 03 October 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtFinished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - by ErebusRed, Candidate

So... as it struck me the Holy War experience was like a contrived training exercise both for Kellhus and the Inrithi (also the Fanim?) armies to steel themselves for the new advent of the No-God. To become the people they needed to be in order to face the second apocalypse. A training exercise that had been devised (or usurped from the Consult) by Maithanet and Moenghus.

Often in the narrative we hear about how the Inrithi warriors have become these iron men as a result of their experiences. I think their development was as crucial as the development of Kellhus. To become 'less numerous but more radiant than the old' as Akka views the new caste-nobility.

But despite the profound cleverness of this plan, several things changed the context of the whole process...

Kellhus had been touched by something from the Outside. What he was pretending to be - he actually was.

And most potently Akka discovered that humanity, love - being free, being 'human' was of greater value than the whole world and it's fate.

Just my perception of it. Great books, Mr Bakker... great books : ) view post


Finished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - posted 04 October 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtFinished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - by Curethan, Didact

Shhh!

<!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> I agree. But is that a criticism of the story? Contrived, surely not! lol view post


Finished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - posted 11 October 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtFinished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - by ErebusRed, Candidate

Just started re-reading TDTCB - a week after finishing TTT! Hehe - may sound extreme but as I'm running some roleplay sessions in Earwa it doesn't hurt to be too familiar with the material.

Weirdly it's like reading TDTCB for the first time, although I only read it a month ago and felt like I was paying avid attention.

Something that really strikes me is how my perceptions about and initial sympathy for Kellhus were down to fantasy conventions, that Bakker has 'sneakily' subverted. At the start we know he is a Prince, that he has blond hair and hence we picture him as handsome - we expect him to have the noble qualities of a typical 'handsome prince'. But right at the outset he has this cold detachment, although somehow I refused to see it so early the first time.

It wasn't till Kellhus lack of intervention on behalf of Serwe that I started to wonder, and even then I thought he would somehow change that situation but I don't feel he did until he had calculated it would best serve his purpose.

Interestingly, as well as his prowess it is Kellhus naiviety about the world that also serves to endear him at the outset. We can relate to weakness. Like Leweth we find Kellhus ignorance to be Godlike. Of course as he loses even that weakness we find our sympathies drifting to characters who better represent our own failings... like Achamian. view post


Finished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - posted 07 November 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtFinished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - by Callan S., Auditor

Acha carried me through the books - when Kelhus leaves behind the trapper who saved his life, I took a backstep. When he latter killed the child who spotted his group, I took him to be an empty killer - more like an avalanche than a character. He happens to people, rather than interacts with them, like a storm or an earth quake happens to people.

Anyway, in terms of the war remember Moenghus realised the spiritual world (or whatever you'd call it) existed - and that by killing enough people, the link to it could be severed. Removing the potential for salvation...and more importantly, damnation. And Moenghus knew he was damned. The war was the first staging ground of mass butcherings for this purpose. And it would lead his son to learn the truth of the matter...sadly for Moenghus, Kelhus was more than truth at the end. view post


Finished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - posted 07 November 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtFinished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - by ErebusRed, Candidate

It's funny because I felt I was paying avid attention but really I excused Kellhus quite a bit, only really growing uncomfortable waiting for him to intervene on Serwe's behalf. I like your description of him as an 'avalanche'.

Thanks for your thoughts on the Holy War as a stage in the severance. I'm very curious to consider what the Consult's next moves will be. view post


Finished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - posted 08 November 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtFinished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - by Israfel, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Callan S.&quot;:1tbch80l

Anyway, in terms of the war remember Moenghus realised the spiritual world (or whatever you'd call it) existed - and that by killing enough people, the link to it could be severed. Removing the potential for salvation...and more importantly, damnation. And Moenghus knew he was damned. The war was the first staging ground of mass butcherings for this purpose.[/quote:1tbch80l]

Ok, I'll have to go back to the book to be sure, but I'm pretty sure this was Kellhus's reasoning about why Moenghus had to die - because he would realise this, not because he had. In fact, I got the distinct impression that Moenghus was going &quot;wtf is he talking about?&quot; when Kellhus went off on his &quot;when you realise you're damned&quot; speech. It's part of what he sees as Kellhus's madness, so I wouldn't agree that it was Moenghus's rationale for the holy war... view post


Finished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - posted 25 November 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtFinished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - by Angainawen, Candidate

I have only read the books once through so far, though after I actually purchase them I will be rereading them much more, but from the very beginning I knew something was off with Kellhus and the Anasurimbor line. That very first passage set both the tone of the book and also the character of Kellhus, even though Kellhus is ignorant of his past. Bakker, as I am sure many have said in similar if not exact words, has crafted a stunning piece of literature with all its nuances. Like Callen, Akka from the beginning won my heart more than Kellhus mainly because Dunyain apathy is something that terrifies me in its resoluteness. But I took from TTT that Moenghus set the Holy War as the training ground to stop the Second Apocalypse and in doing so became like the No-God himself. I am still on the fence on whether Kellhus is evil or amoral or savior; I believe that it's safe to assume that Akka is omnisciently telling the story and therefore the negative slant in Kellhus' portrayal is because of Akka's own perception, so I am open to the idea that Kellhus is really good. view post


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