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Harbinger posted 10 April 2009 in The Judging EyeHarbinger by Athjeari, Peralogue

I have been thinking about this ever since we were introduced to the Mandate prophecy about the Anasurimbor.

Everyone seems to feel that Kellhus is the Harbinger, and most individuals think that this means he will be the one to save the world. For some reason they call him a harbinger and yet think, just because of the prophecy, that he will save the world.

If he is indeed a harbinger, than it only implies that he is coming as a forerunner to the apocalypse. It doesn't necessarily mean that he will save the world. Kellhus' coming could merely be a sign that the apocalypse is near, not that he will prevent the apocalypse. Celmomas never says that an Anasurimbor will save the world, he says that an Anasurimbor will return at the end of the world. (in fact we have no reason to believe that the world can even be saved!)

So, after stating that, does anyone feel that the WLW could be the one to deliver mankind from the brink of apocalypse? As of now the WLW has been portrayed as a somewhat dubious person/creation that is going to reek havoc on the world, but if the WLW does have divine power from a God, would that not make the individual good? view post


Harbinger posted 10 April 2009 in The Judging EyeHarbinger by Curethan, Didact

Quote: "Athjeari":2ze51oyu
Celmomas never says that an Anasurimbor will save the world, he says that an Anasurimbor will return at the end of the world. (in fact we have no reason to believe that the world can even be saved!)
[/quote:2ze51oyu]

Agreed, but Celmomas did seem rather happy about it, and considering he organised Ishual which as it turns out is a haven where his scions could hang out getting trained by super Miagis for 2000 years as a place to return from and he had these handy powers of precognition...

I've always thought the very idea of a second apocolypse is kinda funny anyway. "Now with 20% more world ending and improved ultimate destruction!" view post


Harbinger posted 15 April 2009 in The Judging EyeHarbinger by Athjeari, Peralogue

I think you could argue that Celmomas did not build Ishual as a place for Anasurimbor to lay and hide in the weeds until they saw fit to leave. Ishual was a last ditch attempt to keep humanity alive, not a haven for Anasurimbors to regroup, and the Dunyain were not in the original plans for Ishual. I don't think Celmomas had precognition. I think he knew that his bastard lived in Ishual and that he had a good chance to survive the apocalypse because Ishual was hidden. He made the claim because he had a reason to believe that someone from his line would survive. Like I said, he makes no claim as the how the Anasurimbor will return, nor does he say the purpose of the return. Celmomas simply states that an Anasurimbor will return at the end of the world. view post


Harbinger posted 15 April 2009 in The Judging EyeHarbinger by Curethan, Didact

Well, y'know from the bit of Seswatha's memory of Celmomas' passing, I got the impression that he genuinely had a prophetic vision. view post


Harbinger posted 16 April 2009 in The Judging EyeHarbinger by Truth Shines, Candidate

Quote: "Athjeari":2qyekfcq
Everyone seems to feel that Kellhus is the Harbinger, and most individuals think that this means he will be the one to save the world. For some reason they call him a harbinger and yet think, just because of the prophecy, that he will save the world.[/quote:2qyekfcq]
Well actually not even everyone in the book believes he is the savior. To this day there are still "orthodox" who struggle against his rule. And many readers certainly have harbored doubts about Kellhus all along. Though this is in fact another great thing about this series: no one really knows what's going to happen.
So, after stating that, does anyone feel that the WLW could be the one to deliver mankind from the brink of apocalypse? As of now the WLW has been portrayed as a somewhat dubious person/creation that is going to reek havoc on the world, but if the WLW does have divine power from a God, would that not make the individual good?

I very much doubt it. The gods seem pretty out of it. I mean they certainly didn't do diddly squat during the First Apocalypse. view post


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