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Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 06 February 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Will, Peralogue

So, is the voice that speaks to Kelmonas part of his own twisted spirit, or does it come from another entity? Also, what does it mean by the Strength? view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 22 February 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Mithfânion, Didact

I thought the Strength was a referring to the inherent power of Kellhus, Kelmomas etc. Kellhus is the root of power and Kelmomas but a branch of it. He is inherently powerful, but no one is to the extent that his father is. According to the voice.

As for who the voice is:

1) At one time when Kelmomas kills Samarmas, it asks why did you not kill me earlier. Suggestion 1 is Samarmas.

2) The second suggestion would be that it is one of the Inchoroi. The voice sounds very similar to the Synthese of the first trilogy. Somehow it manages to speak to Kellhus' son.

3) Kelmomas is a skin spy. Yes, a construct actually born of Esmenet, but still a skin spy. In corroboartion of this I made a link between Kelmomas killing Sharacinth and Maithanet consequently saying this might well have been the work of a skin spy. Maithanet never says things lightly, and usually he is correct. This is not proof of course that Kelmomas is a new sort of skin spy, but he might be.

What's also remarakble is that he is said to have very good senses. He knows more, sees more, and especially smells far better than people. I thought these sort of advanced abilities were part and parcel for Skin Spies as well. All in all it would not surprise me Kelmomas is the Consult's ace in the hole.

4) Kelmomas is something else. There is something very curious about how and Samarmas were locked in an uninterrupted 3 year battle of wills where they kept staring at each other. This was explained, but the mental bond between the two was far stronger than what you normally see with twins. Why? What's the deal there.

Clearly Kelmomas could be any number of these things, and that applies to the voice. All 4 options seem plausible. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 23 February 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by anor277, Didact

Quote: "Mithfânion":n6715pcq
...............................................................................................................................................
3) Kelmomas is a skin spy. Yes, a construct actually born of Esmenet, but still a skin spy. In corroboartion of this I made a link between Kelmomas killing Sharacinth and Maithanet consequently saying this might well have been the work of a skin spy. Maithanet never says things lightly, and usually he is correct. This is not proof of course that Kelmomas is a new sort of skin spy, but he might be.

.......................[/quote:n6715pcq]

The mechanics of the Consult getting Kellhus and Esmenet to conceive and deliver skin spy reminds me of John Varley's classic Titan series of novels, which I read a long time ago. In Titan a heavenly body (i.e. a large, animate satellite, which may also have been a god, and on which lived several genetically engineered races) managed to conceal a spy in the actual body of the female protagonist (she was an astronaut who was leading a bloody rebellion against the heavenly body; the pint size spy was also male, which gave the female rebel some concern).

Anyway, the idea of Kelmomas as a skin spy or Consult artefact is a bit far-fetched. Kelmomas is clearly a sociopath (even given the standards of the Three Seas), and it is quite arguable that the voice he hears is part of his disorder. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 03 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Athjeari, Peralogue

I am inclined to believe that Kel's voice is either the intellect that was suppose to be within his brother, or that it is a mental disorder.
I say it could be his brother because of the three year staring contest, and the impact of breaking it might have had something to do with Samarmas being handicap. Also, the reference of "What took you so long to kill me." when just about every other thing that the voice says deals only with Kel. Now with Samarmas killed, I think you could argue that the twins have become "whole".

I also make the argument for the sociopath, crazy kid. The voice could be totally in his head, and telling him, "The Andiamene Heights have sinned, it's time to cleanse the empire Kel."

And the fact that he hears the voice say "What took you so long to kill me," makes a compelling argument for insanity as well because, as I stated above, it is the only time the voice is not referring to something with Kel (at least that I remember), so the voice could be telling Kel what Kel what's to hear.

The fact that Kellhus and Esmi's first child is the only one that appears to be "normal" also says something too. Kel is not a healthy person, half-dunyain, or whatever you want to call him. All the other children have had some sort of debilitating defect, accept their first son. Why would Kel be any different?
Speaking of the children what are people's thoughts on the boy (I forgot his name) that is locked in the room? What made him become the person he is today? Could it be argued that he "saw the face of God, and now knows madness?" It seems odd that he was at one time "normal" by Kellhus' childrens status, and then became the person he his in TJE. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 05 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Will, Peralogue

I like the "it's what was supposed to be in his brother" theory. Has just the right mix of creepy and awesome for the family.

Also, I doubt the first kid is all that normal. He may seem free of crippling defects, but he's probably just hiding them. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 06 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Athjeari, Peralogue

Keep in mind, I said the first born appeared to be normal. We also have to assume it's possible to have a normal half Dunyain, otherwise how do you explain Maithanet?
This could start a new topic, but what does everyone think about the son locked in his room? Also, if Kel is ruling the empire, how does this escape his uncle and sister's Dunyain eye? view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 11 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Will, Peralogue

I don't think Kelmonas rules the Empire, I think he thinks he does. He manipulates Esmi without detection because he interacts with her only when no one else who is 'aware' is present, as advised by his Voice. He slaughters the delegation on camera, so we know how he gets away with that.

I don't think Maithanet is terribly normal. I'm awaiting the answer to Esmi's question "Why doesn't my husband trust you"? view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 12 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Harrol, Moderator

I am not positive about who the voice is but it fits the profile of the Consult. The voice trying to sound like Kel or his brother would be well within the machanations of the Consult. Esmi was marked by Aurang, I do not know how but at the end of TTT she is at time thinking thoughts that belong to Aurang or should I say murges rather than thoughts. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 13 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Curethan, Didact

Erm, the way compulsions work wouldn't result in a voice like that imo. I think 'the voice' is simply a more forceful version of the secondary mental voice we all share - the one that frames our thoughts, asking questions that your own 'thinking voice' answers. Scizophrenics often 'hear' disassociated voice/s urging them to do stuff. I would suggest Kelmomas' voice is the product of his powerful imagination gone a bit sick, and thus easily infleunced by outside forces.

*edit: Perhaps the gods broke his elder brother's mind trying to achieve the same result? view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 13 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Harrol, Moderator

As I wrote in the previous post Kel's love of death and destruction seems to be more like a Inchoi love of death and suffering than anything we have seen from the gods (Yatwer)so far. I do not believe the Consult would use compulsion to control or should I say influence Kel's sick actions. What happened to Kel could be a thing of the Tekne rather than magic. This is just speculation so far we do not have enough info to draw a conclusion. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 14 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Curethan, Didact

Certainly can't discount that. I was under the impression that it was compulsion that was used on Esme tho. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 16 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Harrol, Moderator

Could very wel have been. The vision she had of flaying that one knight alive who accosted he in the camp(TTT) seemed to show a trace that Aurang had left on her. The thought brought a sense of arousal to her. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 17 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Callan S., Auditor

Quote: "Curethan":1qzjnexp
Erm, the way compulsions work wouldn't result in a voice like that imo. I think 'the voice' is simply a more forceful version of the secondary mental voice we all share[/quote:1qzjnexp]
I think so too. A dunyain intellect in a half world born body is like looking at a v8 engine running in a tiny car.

It's funny though - the flashbacks to the dunyain base (Ishmael? I can never remember the names). The flashback had the children there laughing as they tried to hit an instructor with their sticks. They seemed relatively functional in terms of being children, and before the final brainwash Kelhus seemed to be a boy with girl bits on his mind, as you might expect. Still quite human. On the other hand it horribly occured to me that the dunyain might put down dozens of babies before they get a proper one, so it might not be the case that Dunyain have normal children. Maithanet might have been the normal one to be spared after many prior 'failed' babies.

But out and out I suspect that the gods of fertility have simply cursed Kelhus to this 'fertility'. Especially since the white luck warrior seems to be connected with sex magic.

That's another odd thing about the book, the magic level is really ramped up. I had assumed from the first three that this was always going to be a godless set of books, with schoolmen being the only supernatural element. It really seemed like it was about men dealing with things in a godless universe, but that's changed. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 21 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by ThePrinceofNothing, Candidate

I believe that Kelmomas' "voice" is actually Samarmas' intellect. At some point, either at birth or during their forced "separation (it was described how they could not look away from each other or be apart from each other)," the combined superior Dunyain intellect did not split properly between each body. Bakker continually describes how Samarmas is much more "simple" and naive than Kelmomas. I believe that Kelmomas has the combined Dunyain intellect. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 30 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Truth Shines, Candidate

I think we are making too much of this. The kid is just nuts, that's all. Remember his father's lineage: two thousand years of inbreeding. That's why he and Esmi and other concubines keep getting these eight-arms-no-eyes "nameless" things. It's a wonder they got any normal children at all. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 30 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Curethan, Didact

ha Anasurimbor Charles? view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 31 March 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by kidten, Candidate

I'm going with the theory that the voice is the soul of Samarmas. I think all of the deformed babies were actually twins melded together. After all, isn't that what the Dunyain do in a way? Become one with the Universe. They did stare at each other for many years. Maybe the Strength of the Dunyain allows them to physically get inside the head of another. It could also be the crazy brother Inrilatas but I'm going with the twin. Maybe it's another Dunyain altogether sent from Ishual to have Kellhus killed. But I'm going with the Samarmas. Did I say that yet already?

Crazy idea that the voice could be born of a plan constructed by the Consult. I always wondered what the effects of the black sperm ejaculated into Esmenet by Aurang could be. But how would the Consult have known that a common whore would birth the children of an Emperor? As for the skin spy theory, no way. Maithanet would have spotted him a mile away. Kelmomas is afraid of Maithanet and his father because he doesn't want to get caught for the murders. "Anasurimbor Maithanet replied with uncharacteristic reluctance. ""I find this turn...incalcuble."" He doesn't know what to make of it.

Whatever or whoever that voice is I think we can all agree that it's making one vicious little boy out of Kelmomas. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 12 May 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by coobek, Candidate

I'll go with his killed brother. It is his voice. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 18 May 2009 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Callan S., Auditor

Quote: "ThePrinceofNothing":2x6200no
I believe that Kelmomas' "voice" is actually Samarmas' intellect. At some point, either at birth or during their forced "separation (it was described how they could not look away from each other or be apart from each other)," the combined superior Dunyain intellect did not split properly between each body. Bakker continually describes how Samarmas is much more "simple" and naive than Kelmomas. I believe that Kelmomas has the combined Dunyain intellect.[/quote:2x6200no]
I'm not too keen to jump into spiritual speculation, since how it works is kind of up to the author and this is a bit of a leap. But that sounds like a good idea on what could be happening, regardless! view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 12 February 2010 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Nerdanel, Peralogue

I think the secret voice is the No-God pretending to be Samarmas in order to manipulate Kelmomas to do its bidding. The voice is very intelligent and sounds too mature and knowledgeable even for a half-Dûnyain child. view post


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