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The upcoming election posted 18 September 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by luciferi, Candidate

I have made this topic because I like to know other people's take on things and it is necessary to hear criticism of what I think or don't think.

Any thoughts on this election year? I am not particularly enamoured with any of the candidates and am currently supporting none. I am also considering using my right to not vote because I cannot agree with any of them and will not make the decision to "choose a lesser evil". There is much corruption on both sides of the party. I think John McCain has too many special interests behind him although I applaud and respect the fact of his serving our country and being a prisoner of war. I think Barack Obama is a little too naive and I don't really agree with the whole universal health care thing. I have more opinions on other views both candidates have but will wait to say what you guys think... view post


The upcoming election posted 18 September 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Harrol, Moderator

Luciferi,

I too feel a little unmotivated to vote for the president in this election. Yes McCain has a lot of special interest groups behind him but so does Obama. Obama did not shoot from the Illinois state senate to the US senate where by the way he voted present more that he voted yes or no on the issues without having powerful backers i.e. money. No McCain and Obama are just repackaged versions of more of the same. I will vote McCain this time around because better the devil you know then the devil you don't. view post


The upcoming election posted 19 September 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Cironian, Peralogue

This post is likely a tad les knowledged than most, for I live in canada, and am not of legal voting age. However, I must say that the entire election process is far too immense a deal this time around. Talk of the election began in November of LAST YEAR. They're still not done yet. In Canada, campaigning was started just last week, and the entir process will only take six. Also, news about the American election, or about any of the candidates, no matter how minor or trivial, ALWAYS make the news before absolutely anything about canadian politics is aired. I'm referring to the Canadian news channels. If Obama's former teacher's mother-in-law's cousin sneezed on someone in public, Canadian newscasters would tell us about it before news of our Prime Minister being shot. Okay, maybe I exaggerate slighty, but I'm sure you get the picture.

Not only this, but they seem to extort even the most irrelevant and non-essetial tidbits of information about the candidates, to make everything seem so blatantly awful. (I believe this may be why the public is generally more reluctant to vote come the time to cast ballots.)

The whole thing makes me just sick of American politics, however much fun it is to poke at the leaders of the so-called land of oppourtunity. No offense meant here, I poke at most world leaders who make terrible decisions. The American ones just seem to be more publicized than everybody else. view post


The upcoming election posted 19 September 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: "Cironian":132cge9r
news about the American election, or about any of the candidates, no matter how minor or trivial, ALWAYS make the news before absolutely anything about canadian politics is aired. I'm referring to the Canadian news channels.
[/quote:132cge9r]

That's because almost all (if not, all) TV channels are owned by foreigners to Canada. The owners probably don't even know where Canada is on the map, and probably think we're all a bunch of Inuit Eskimos living in igloos and dressed in seal skin and don't even know what a tell-a-vision box is.

Quote: "Cironian":132cge9r

Not only this, but they seem to extort even the most irrelevant and non-essetial tidbits of information about the candidates, to make everything seem so blatantly awful. (I believe this may be why the public is generally more reluctant to vote come the time to cast ballots.)
[/quote:132cge9r]

They do it in Canada also. The last time Canadian elections were going on, before Harper was PM, the Toronto Sun had a large picture of Ricky from The Trailer Park Boys TV show on the front page with a blurb that stated Ricky was a fifth cousin to Stephen Harper. The message I got from that piece of info was: Hey all you pot smokers and Trailer Park Boys lovers, vote for Stephen Harper because Ricky is related to him. Talk about irrelevancy! The irony in that message is Stephen Harper is like a Soviet iron fist towards marijuana laws. Paul Martin was willing to decriminalize marijuana, then Harper steps in and builds a wall against it, yet his fifth cousin's role in a TV show is a pot-smoking, pot-growing, highly-irresponsible, trouble-making, prison-loving alcoholic. Go figure.

Anyhow... US politics is a sham and the elections are a fraud. Canada is no better in those areas either. I will vote, but I'm voting Green party. They're probably a sham also, but, at least, they want to decriminalize marijuana and possibly legalize it. There's just too many pros about that plant, besides smoking it, and its long overdue that we take advantage of it. Its ironically amusing that the US Declaration of Independence is written on hemp paper and their first president grew fields of hemp and marijuana, and even smoked it. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Anyways. I think Obama will win. Not that it matters. Or something crazy will happen before election day or inauguration day that the psychotic Bush mob will suspend elections and rule for another 100 years. <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


The upcoming election posted 21 September 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by jub, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:lg8eq35o
but, at least, they want to decriminalize marijuana and possibly legalize it. There's just too many pros about that plant, besides smoking it, and its long overdue that we take advantage of it. Its ironically amusing that the US Declaration of Independence is written on hemp paper and their first president grew fields of hemp and marijuana, and even smoked it. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->[/quote:lg8eq35o]

To right! view post


The upcoming election posted 23 September 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Cironian, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Cnaiür&quot;:psfhsphm
Quote: &quot;Cironian&quot;:psfhsphm
news about the American election, or about any of the candidates, no matter how minor or trivial, ALWAYS make the news before absolutely anything about canadian politics is aired. I'm referring to the Canadian news channels.
[/quote:psfhsphm]

That's because almost all (if not, all) TV channels are owned by foreigners to Canada. The owners probably don't even know where Canada is on the map, and probably think we're all a bunch of Inuit Eskimos living in igloos and dressed in seal skin and don't even know what a tell-a-vision box is.

Quote: &quot;Cironian&quot;:psfhsphm

Not only this, but they seem to extort even the most irrelevant and non-essetial tidbits of information about the candidates, to make everything seem so blatantly awful. (I believe this may be why the public is generally more reluctant to vote come the time to cast ballots.)
[/quote:psfhsphm]

They do it in Canada also. The last time Canadian elections were going on, before Harper was PM, the Toronto Sun had a large picture of Ricky from The Trailer Park Boys TV show on the front page with a blurb that stated Ricky was a fifth cousin to Stephen Harper... [/quote:psfhsphm]

Good points both, there. I'd forgotten about the first, and I'd no clue of the second. Thank-you for the info! view post


The upcoming election posted 08 October 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Harrol, Moderator

OBAMA: Said McCain's proposal to give people a tax credit in exchange for treating employers' health insurance contributions as taxable wages amounts to &quot;what one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away.&quot;

THE FACTS: Obama's suggestion that McCain's health care plan is a wash for families is misleading. McCain offers families a $5,000 tax credit to help them buy health insurance. The corresponding increase in taxable wages would result in a much smaller cost than the value of the tax credit, at least at first. Over time, the value of the tax credit may diminish as premiums rise. However, the Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan would increase the federal deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years — mainly because it would lead to less tax revenue coming in, meaning it is a true tax break overall.

___

McCAIN: Said he would provide a $5,000 refundable tax credit for families to buy health insurance &quot;rather than mandates or fines for small businesses as Sen. Obama's plan calls for.&quot;

THE FACTS: Obama's health care plan does not impose mandates or fines on small business. He would provide small businesses with a refundable tax credit of up to 50 percent on health premiums paid on behalf of their employees. Also, large employers that do not offer meaningful coverage or contribute to the cost of coverage would be required to pay a percentage of payroll toward the costs of a public insurance plan. But small businesses would be exempt from that requirement.

___

OBAMA: &quot;Actually I'm cutting more than I'm spending so that it will be a net spending cut.&quot;

THE FACTS: The bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Obama would increase spending by $425 billion over four years and reduce spending by $144 billion for a net increase in the deficit of $281 billion. Obama has said he'll cut pork-barrel programs and the costs of the war in Iraq to pay for his programs — as well as raise taxes on the wealthy — but the specifics of his new spending plans outweigh the few spending cuts he's identified.

___

McCAIN: Said one way out of the financial crisis is to &quot;stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don't like us.&quot;

THE FACTS: Although he didn't spell it out, he was referring — as he has in the past — to purchases of oil from countries hostile to the U.S. The figure is inflated and misleading. The U.S. is not spending nearly that much on oil imports and roughly one-third of what it does spend goes to friendly countries such as Canada, Mexico and Britain.

___

OBAMA: Blamed some of the problem of terrorism in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region on Bush administration policy in Pakistan, saying &quot;We can't coddle, as we did, a dictator, give him billions of dollars and then he's making peace treaties with the Taliban and militants.&quot;

THE FACTS: Obama oversimplifies ex-President Pervez Musharraf's approach to making peace deals. In fact, the U.S.-backed Musharraf focused more heavily on military action, launching blistering attacks on the militants at times and negotiating peace deals with them at others. Obama also ignores the fact that Pakistan's newly elected civilian government, also U.S.-supported, is seeking the same kind of peace deals and has stepped back from heavy-handed tactics that were pursued by the Musharraf government.

___

McCAIN: Said Obama had voted for tax increases &quot;94 times.&quot;

THE FACTS: This inflated count, heard before, includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.

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OBAMA: &quot;I believe this is a final verdict on the failed economic policies of the last eight years, strongly promoted by President Bush and supported by Sen. McCain, that essentially said that we should strip away regulations, consumer protections, let the market run wild, and prosperity would rain down on all of us.&quot;

THE FACTS: McCain has indeed favored less regulation over the years but supported tighter rules and accountability on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years before the start of a financial crisis prompted in part by those giant mortgage underwriters. Obama was not a leader in that unsuccessful effort. Some of the current problems can be traced to legislation passed in 1999 that lifted many regulations over the financial industry. That deregulation was championed by then-Sen. Phil Gramm, R-Texas, a McCain supporter, but also by President Clinton, who signed the legislation, and by former Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, now a top Obama economic adviser.

___

MCAIN: &quot;Oil drilling offshore now is vital so we can bridge the gap between imported oil ... and it will reduce the price of a barrel of oil. ... We've got to drill offshore and do it now.&quot;

THE FACTS: The government estimates that opening the Atlantic and Pacific coasts and eastern Gulf of Mexico to drilling &quot;will not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030.&quot; Even then, it would only increase domestic oil production by 3 percent.

___

Associated Press writers Tom Raum view post


The upcoming election posted 12 October 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by jub, Peralogue

But seriously, who would want Palin as vice president, let alone president? She scares the fuck out of me. If you all manage to vote McCain in everywhere around the world you will hear this giant &quot;sigh&quot;. view post


The upcoming election posted 12 October 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Harrol, Moderator

Why does she scare you and the rest of the world? view post


The upcoming election posted 12 October 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by jub, Peralogue

She doesn't seem to have any notion of what's going on, only what she has been told. She claims 'God's will' on anything that passes under her nose, pro-guns, and she's pretty far right. If it's true, she fired some official who refused to fire an officer who had broken up with her sister, shows how much control she has. Could you really see Palin in control? I can only see her being controled, very easily. view post


The upcoming election posted 16 October 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Harrol, Moderator

More election facts. <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->


WASHINGTON - Facts went astray on tax cuts, negative campaign advertising and oil imports when Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain engaged Wednesday in their third and final presidential debate.

ADVERTISEMENT

Some examples:

OBAMA: &quot;Every dollar that I've proposed, I've proposed an additional cut, so that it matches.&quot;

THE FACTS: The bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates that his programs would add $281 billion to the deficit at the end of his first term. The analysis includes Obama's proposals for saving money.

___

McCAIN: &quot;We have to stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don't like us very much.&quot;

THE FACTS: This is a reference to U.S. spending on oil imports. McCain has repeatedly made this claim. But the figure is highly inflated and misleading. According to government agencies that track energy imports, the United States spent $246 billion in 2007 for all imported crude oil, a majority of it coming from friendly nations including neighboring Canada and Mexico. An additional $82 billion was spent on imported refined petroleum products such as gasoline, diesel and fuel oil. A majority of the refined products come from refineries in such friendly countries as the Netherlands, Canada, the United Kingdom, Trinidad-Tobago and the Virgin Islands.

___

OBAMA: &quot;One hundred percent, John, of your ads — 100 percent of them — have been negative.&quot;

THE FACTS: The statement is mostly true when it comes to McCain's current commercial spots. But by saying McCain's ads &quot;have been&quot; 100 percent negative, Obama ventures into misleading territory. A recent study by the Wisconsin Advertising Project at the University of Wisconsin-Madison found that in the first week of October &quot;nearly 100 percent&quot; of McCain's ads were negative. The study also reported, however, that to date 73 percent of McCain's ads have been negative and that 61 percent of Obama's ads have been negative.

___

McCAIN: &quot;Sen. Obama is spending unprecedented amounts of money in negative attack ads on me.&quot;

THE FACTS: Obama is spending unprecedented amounts of money on ads, period — negative or otherwise. Obama is outspending McCain and the Republican Party by more than 2-to-1 in presidential ads. At one point in August, 90 percent of the ads Obama was airing were against McCain. The study by the Wisconsin Advertising Project found that about 34 percent of Obama's ads are now negative.

___

OBAMA: &quot;I want to provide a tax cut for 95 percent of working Americans, 95 percent.&quot;

THE FACTS: Obama constantly says this. But the independent Tax Policy Center says his plan cuts taxes for 81.3 percent of all households in 2009.

___

McCAIN: Said of Obama's running mate Sen. Joe Biden: &quot;He had this cockamamie idea of dividing Iraq into three countries.&quot;

THE FACTS: Biden actually proposed dividing Iraq into three semiautonomous regions, not separate countries. He was a prime sponsor of a nonbinding Senate resolution that called for Iraq to have federal regions under the control of Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis in a power-sharing agreement similar to the one that ended the 1990s war in Bosnia.

___

OBAMA: Said he would be &quot;completely supportive&quot; of late-term abortion restrictions &quot;as long as there's an exception for the mother's health and life.&quot;

THE FACTS: Obama leaves himself a lot of latitude in this answer. A woman's &quot;health&quot; has been so broadly interpreted that it can include conditions, including psychological conditions, that are difficult to diagnose or prove. Anti-abortion advocates say that makes the ban meaningless, because it leaves too much subjective judgment in the equation.

___

MCCAIN: &quot;Sen. Obama, as a member of the Illinois state Senate, voted in the Judiciary Committee against a law that would provide immediate medical attention to a child born in a failed abortion. He voted against that.&quot;

OBAMA: &quot;If it sounds incredible that I would vote to withhold lifesaving treatment from an infant, that's because it's not true.&quot;

THE FACTS: As a state senator, Obama opposed three legislative efforts, in 2001, 2002 and 2003, to give legal protections to any aborted fetus that showed signs of life. The 2003 measure was virtually identical to a bill President Bush signed into law in 2002 — a bill that passed before Obama was in the U.S. Senate, but one that Obama said he would have supported. The state of Illinois already had a law to protect aborted fetuses born alive and considered able to survive. Among those opposed to the state effort was the Illinois State Medical Society, which argued that the bill would interfere with the doctor-patient relationship and expand civil liability for doctors. Critics said the proposed legislation would have undermined the landmark Supreme Court case on abortion, Roe v. Wade, in ways the federal law would not.

___

McCAIN: &quot;Senator Obama talks about voting for budgets. He voted twice for a budget resolution that increases the taxes on individuals making $42,000 a year.&quot;

THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding resolution and did not increase taxes. The resolution assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000.

___

OBAMA: &quot;We can cut the average family's premium by $2,500 a year.&quot;

THE FACTS: If that sounds like a straight-ahead promise to lower health insurance premiums, it isn't. Obama hopes that by spending $50 billion over five years on electronic medical records and by improving access to proven disease management programs, among other steps, consumers will end up saving money. He uses an optimistic analysis to suggest cost reductions in national health care spending could amount to the equivalent of $2,500 for a family of four. Many economists are skeptical those savings can be achieved, but even if they are, it's not a certainty that every dollar would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower premiums.

___

MCCAIN: Warned a small business owner that he would be fined under Obama's health care plan if he did not provide health insurance for workers.

THE FACTS: Obama's health care plan does not impose mandates or fines on small business. He would provide small businesses with a refundable tax credit of up to 50 percent on health premiums paid on behalf of their employees. Large as well as medium-sized businesses that do not offer meaningful coverage or contribute to the cost of coverage would be required to pay a percentage of payroll toward the costs of a public insurance plan. But small businesses would be exempt from that requirement.

___

McCAIN: &quot;We can eliminate our dependence on foreign oil by building 45 nuclear power plants right away.&quot;

THE FACTS: For nuclear power to lower oil dependency would require a massive shift to electric or hybrid-electric cars, with nuclear power providing the electricity. No new U.S. nuclear reactor has been built since the 1970s. Although 15 utilities have filed applications to build 24 new reactors, none is expected to be built before 2015 at the earliest. Turmoil in the credit markets could force cancellation of some of the projects now planned, much less spur construction of 45 new reactors, as reactor costs have soared to about $9 billion apiece.

___ view post


The upcoming election posted 26 October 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Cnaiür, Peralogue

The only reason the Republicans could win is because the people of the U.S. wish to see an attractive female politician sitting in Dick's position. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->


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Schwing <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> view post


The upcoming election posted 05 November 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionThe upcoming election by Cironian, Peralogue

Obama wins by a wide margin! I have to congratulate him, and thank the gods that he got it instead of... well, those less apt for the position. view post


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