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Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 12 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

Was he actually Moenghus? Scarred arms and blue eyes would indicate so - but his reputation was as one of the most powerful of the cishurim...
I don't recall him ever being mentioned after the start of tDtCB. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 12 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Nerdanel, Peralogue

I think it's clear that Mallahet = Moënghus. The identificating marks are just too specific for me to think otherwise.

I think Kellhus, not having heard of Mallahet, could not connect the dots and ended up dangerously underestimating his daddy. He guessed that Moënghus was a weak Cishaurim both magically and politically, when the only reason Moënghus wasn't the Heresiarch was that he had been born a foreigner. We have accustomed to Kellhus always being right about people but his past record doesn't mean he's incapable of being wrong.

Also, Moënghus was careful to keep his face disguised beyond darkness and falling water as much as possible, which would have made things difficult for Kellhus. On the other hand, snakes may have bad vision, but their sense of smell is formidable - something Kellhus didn't know or didn't think of. Kellhus's scent could presumably tell Moënghus a lot of what he thought he was hiding. I think Moënghus also recognized skin-spies by their distinctive smell and not by their voices like Kellhus guessed.

As for how easily Moënghus died, I think that strongly implies that he didn't and instead faked his death. Someone as strong as Mallahet should have been able to put in more of a fight. I think the explanation is that Moënghus was possessing someone else from afar and also keeping up a constant illusion that the person was himself. Kellhus wouldn't have sensed a thing because Moënghus used Cishaurim magic to do it. Moënghus could also have been inserting thoughts into Kellhus's head, something that Kellhus wouldn't have been able to sense either. It really is quite convenient that Kellhus teleported away without staying to look at the face of the corpse and before his daddy actually died. That could be mindcontrol or just arrogance. Either way, it's important to remember that Moënghus invited Kellhus in and obviously gave a lot of thought for planning the meeting.

There is also a quote somewhere that suggests that Moënghus might be able to teleport. Namely, I think it was he who made the unprovoked attack on the Scarlet Spires in order to draw them to the Holy War Maithanet would later incite. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 12 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

Well, Cnaiur certainly recognized him...

But I always thought it kind of odd that Mo didn't think Kellhus might just stab him. Beyond seeing if Kelhus was nuts I'm not sure what Mo's objective in that meeting was and it's evident even to me that if K was indeed 'mad', there would be some risk involved.

I can't decide whether I think Mo is stil alive or not, but I think you're correct that there more went on in that meeting than we know about. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 16 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by anor277, Didact

Quote: "Nerdanel":35jif9ct
I think it's clear that Mallahet = Moënghus. The identificating marks are just too specific for me to think otherwise.

I think Kellhus, not having heard of Mallahet, could not connect the dots and ended up dangerously underestimating his daddy. He guessed that Moënghus was a weak Cishaurim both magically and politically, when the only reason Moënghus wasn't the Heresiarch was that he had been born a foreigner. We have accustomed to Kellhus always being right about people but his past record doesn't mean he's incapable of being wrong.[/quote:35jif9ct]
While I agree that Mallahet's identity certainly was that of Moënghus, most of what you write is directly addressed in the book. As a foreigner, Mallahet did not serve as heresiarch; a more vital factor preventing his leadership of the Cishaurim was his inability to plumb his emotion (or at least his lack of emotion) that prevented him from summoning the "water" that was integral to the practice of Cishaurim sorcery. Moënghus was good at the aspects of sorcery that did not require "passion" or "emotion".

Also, Moënghus was careful to keep his face disguised beyond darkness and falling water as much as possible, which would have made things difficult for Kellhus. On the other hand, snakes may have bad vision, but their sense of smell is formidable - something Kellhus didn't know or didn't think of. Kellhus's scent could presumably tell Moënghus a lot of what he thought he was hiding. I think Moënghus also recognized skin-spies by their distinctive smell and not by their voices like Kellhus guessed.

I don't think we have enough data to speculate. Reptile vision is reportedly inferior to that of birds and mammals, however it extends into the infra-red (to which birds and mammals are insensitive). And of course we are supposing that the Cishaurim sees what his snake familiars see.

As for how easily Moënghus died, I think that strongly implies that he didn't and instead faked his death. Someone as strong as Mallahet should have been able to put in more of a fight. I think the explanation is that Moënghus was possessing someone else from afar and also keeping up a constant illusion that the person was himself. Kellhus wouldn't have sensed a thing because Moënghus used Cishaurim magic to do it. Moënghus could also have been inserting thoughts into Kellhus's head, something that Kellhus wouldn't have been able to sense either. It really is quite convenient that Kellhus teleported away without staying to look at the face of the corpse and before his daddy actually died. That could be mindcontrol or just arrogance. Either way, it's important to remember that Moënghus invited Kellhus in and obviously gave a lot of thought for planning the meeting.

Again this is all speculation. For a start Moënghus did not die very easily. He turned off several skin spies (after?) Kellhus had delivered what was arguably a mortal blow. Moënghus while blind (or at least with his vision impaired by what the snakes see) was evidently a very formidable opponent, as we would expect for someone Dunyain-trained. It made sense for Kellhus to deliver the blow and scarper. As Curethan says Cnaiur certainly recognized Moënghus; he might have been a better eye-witness than Kellhus, whose last memories of his father was that of a boy prior to Moënghus' maiming.

There is also a quote somewhere that suggests that Moënghus might be able to teleport. Namely, I think it was he who made the unprovoked attack on the Scarlet Spires in order to draw them to the Holy War Maithanet would later incite.
If Moënghus had been able to teleport, he would have had no need of his son to take over the 1000 temples; Moënghus could have flitted in and out between churches. In fact, in the next novel I think Kellhus' ability to teleport, to transcend distance, will have to be treated very carefully. Again, Kellhus in the novel clearly describes how the attack on the Scarlet Spires was inspired by a Cishaurim faction that was not in Moënghus' control. Of course (i) Moënghus later exploited the feud between the Spires and the Cishaurim, and of course (ii) Kellhus may be wrong, but it would certainly be an (unacceptable!) deux ex machina if Moënghus appears in the next novels. There would then be too many players, (i) Kellhus, (ii) the Consult, (iii) the Dunyain(?), and (iv) Moënghus. I don't buy it. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 16 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by lfex, Peralogue

Quote: "anor277":78vzh5fb

If Moënghus had been able to teleport, he would have had no need of his son to take over the 1000 temples; Moënghus could have flitted in and out between churches. In fact, in the next novel I think Kellhus' ability to teleport, to transcend distance, will have to be treated very carefully. [/quote:78vzh5fb]


Do we know how long is the reach of Kellhus's teleportation ability? Could he teleport from Shimeh to Ishual and back, or is it restricted to far shorter distances? I agree that the former possibility would create many difficulties with the plot, since if Kellhus could appear anytime at any place, he could become truly unstoppable. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 16 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

Mmm, teleportation is undeniably one of the most potentially powerful abilities someone (especially Kellhus) can have, to say nothing of the level of physical manipulation involved when compared to, say climbing invisible steps into the sky or making things burn.

Generally magic systems have rules that aproximate scientific ones. By this I mean that the amount of power/change expended is related to some 'cost'. In the case of Earwen sorcery we know that it is the 'bruising' of the onta, damnation and the deepening of the mark. What this means is unclear, but I think perhaps that Kellhus will realise there is a cost which forces him to use teleportation sparingly.

Back on topic, my original question was related to the fact that Mallahet was described as being both a notorious and powerful Cishaurim, second only to the heresiarch, which is the only thing that runs contrary to him being easily identified as Moenghus. Also, what the heck was he doing running messages if it was Mo?

Again, Kellhus in the novel clearly describes how the attack on the Scarlet Spires was inspired by a Cishaurim faction that was not in Moënghus' control.


I don't remember this, can you please eloborate? I think that the assasination is what is prompting speculation that Mo could also teleport (which I think would be highly unlikely because I believe it requires knowledge of the Gnosis). Speaking of which I don't think it would mean Mo would've been able to infiltrate the 1000 temples himself because he still wouldn't have enough time to do so - being able to move instantly doesn't add any hours to your day <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 16 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;lfex&quot;:28dm7r3u
Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:28dm7r3u

If Moënghus had been able to teleport, he would have had no need of his son to take over the 1000 temples; Moënghus could have flitted in and out between churches. In fact, in the next novel I think Kellhus' ability to teleport, to transcend distance, will have to be treated very carefully. [/quote:28dm7r3u]


Do we know how long is the reach of Kellhus's teleportation ability? Could he teleport from Shimeh to Ishual and back, or is it restricted to far shorter distances? I agree that the former possibility would create many difficulties with the plot, since if Kellhus could appear anytime at any place, he could become truly unstoppable.[/quote:28dm7r3u]


We know nothing of Kellhus' ability to teleport, only that he developed it de novo and that it involved the use of a second inutteral (whatever this is). Obviously there are going to be limits to its use, and again this is going to require careful handling if its existence is going to be &quot;realistic&quot;.

Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:28dm7r3u
Back on topic, my original question was related to the fact that Mallahet was described as being both a notorious and powerful Cishaurim, second only to the heresiarch, which is the only thing that runs contrary to him being easily identified as Moenghus. Also, what the heck was he doing running messages if it was Mo?

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:28dm7r3u
Again, Kellhus in the novel clearly describes how the attack on the Scarlet Spires was inspired by a Cishaurim faction that was not in Moënghus' control.[/quote:28dm7r3u]

I don't remember this, can you please eloborate? I think that the assasination is what is prompting speculation that Mo could also teleport (which I think would be highly unlikely because I believe it requires knowledge of the Gnosis). Speaking of which I don't think it would mean Mo would've been able to infiltrate the 1000 temples himself because he still wouldn't have enough time to do so - being able to move instantly doesn't add any hours to your day [/quote:28dm7r3u]
Being able to move instantly would in fact add many hours to my day; anyway, as you say, it is highly unlikely that Mo had any such ability; it was Kellhus' gnostic tour de force while he was still a novice. Mo, as far as we know, had to initiate contact with Kellhus. From the earliest part of TDtCB we were aware that Mo had summoned K to Shimeh and he went to extraordinary lengths to do so, the meeting was the conclusion. No doubt Moënghus recognized that a meeting with his son would be extraordinarily dangerous (the Dunyain had sent Kellhus as an assassin and Mo could have anticipated this); there remained the possibility that Kellhus could have committed himself to Mo's plans or even that Mo might have assassinated Kellhus and assumed control of the Tusk crusaders.

As to the attack on the Scarlet Spires, from memory it was discussed in that very meeting between Kellhus and Moënghus. Moënghus personality, while formidable, did not operate at a distance. His colleagues among the Cishaurim reagarded his indifferent power as a water bearer as a curse from God and a weakness. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 16 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Nerdanel, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;TDTCB&quot;:rhi1d86r
Xerius sensed the Grandmaster stiffen next to him. &quot;Emperor,&quot; the sorcerer murmured, &quot;you must leave at once. If this is truly Mallahet, then you're in grave danger. We all are!&quot;

Mallahet... He had heard that name before, in one of Skeaös' briefings. The one whose arms were scarred like a Scylvendi.

&quot;So three [Imperial Saik sorcerers] are not enough,&quot; Xerius replied, inexplicably heartened by his Grandmaster's fear.

&quot;Mallahet is second only to Seokti in the Cishaurim. And only then because their Prophetic Law bars non-Kianene from the position of the Heresiarch. Even the Cishaurim are fearful of his power!&quot;[/quote:rhi1d86r]

My point is, Moënghus is actually extremely strong in the Water. As traditional enemies the Nansur and the Kianene have a lot of reason to keep themselves up-to-date on each other. Achamian was an outsider to their conflict, and while he was good at general knowledge he had had no reason to concentrate on learning about the internal politics of the Cishaurim. As Kellhus learned from Achamian, not Cememketri, he might not have heard about the power of Mallahet and what Mallahet looked like. But he didn't, and so his guesses about Moënghus at their final confrontation were that much less accurate.

About teleportation, that is something Kellhus figured out after brief study. Moënghus has had decades to make up new spells. There is nothing that says that teleportation is a Gnosis-only thing. Indeed, Kellhus developed his teleportation based on the Cants of Calling, and all three branches of magic have some form of long-distance communication. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 16 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Nerdanel&quot;:h1s4hlt6
Quote: &quot;TDTCB&quot;:h1s4hlt6
Xerius sensed the Grandmaster stiffen next to him. &quot;Emperor,&quot; the sorcerer murmured, &quot;you must leave at once. If this is truly Mallahet, then you're in grave danger. We all are!&quot;

Mallahet... He had heard that name before, in one of Skeaös' briefings. The one whose arms were scarred like a Scylvendi.

&quot;So three [Imperial Saik sorcerers] are not enough,&quot; Xerius replied, inexplicably heartened by his Grandmaster's fear.

&quot;Mallahet is second only to Seokti in the Cishaurim. And only then because their Prophetic Law bars non-Kianene from the position of the Heresiarch. Even the Cishaurim are fearful of his power!&quot;[/quote:h1s4hlt6]

My point is, Moënghus is actually extremely strong in the Water. As traditional enemies the Nansur and the Kianene have a lot of reason to keep themselves up-to-date on each other. Achamian was an outsider to their conflict, and while he was good at general knowledge he had had no reason to concentrate on learning about the internal politics of the Cishaurim. As Kellhus learned from Achamian, not Cememketri, he might not have heard about the power of Mallahet and what Mallahet looked like. But he didn't, and so his guesses about Moënghus at their final confrontation were that much less accurate.

About teleportation, that is something Kellhus figured out after brief study. Moënghus has had decades to make up new spells. There is nothing that says that teleportation is a Gnosis-only thing. Indeed, Kellhus developed his teleportation based on the Cants of Calling, and all three branches of magic have some form of long-distance communication.[/quote:h1s4hlt6]

Moënghus was strong in those aspects of Cishaurim sorcery that required reason and intellect (and therefore had a formidable reputation amongst his peers and enemies); in those that required passion and emotion he was indifferent and his political base suffered because of it. This is explicitly stated in the colloquy between Moënghus and Kellhus late in TTT. Moënghus would have undoubtedly been more powerful as an anagnostic or gnostic sorceror in which practice reason was (apparently) an asset.

If you think that this is wrong, fine, but please read that passage again. I don't have the books to read so you'll have to find it yourself. There remains no evidence to support the fact that Moënghus had developed teleportation. Why go to the trouble of summoning Kellhus across the world, with all its attendant risks, if he could transcend distance?

(Edited to add): In this last conversation between Kellhus and Moënghus it is revealed that the effort required by Moënghus to contact Ishual &quot;almost broke him&quot;, so at least here there was a limit to the extent of sorcerous power. Earlier Achamian and Kellhus had speculated on the primacy of emotion, of passion in the practice of Cishaurim sorcery. Moënghus, as a Dunyain, had repressed his emotions and passion to the point of non-existence and so was an indifferent practitioner of the Pskuhe. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 17 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by anor277, Didact

There is further discussion on the nature of Cishaurim sorcery in the Ax the author section, [url:ooacmkme]http&#58;//forum&#46;three-seas&#46;com/viewtopic&#46;php?f=14&amp;t=1079[/url:ooacmkme]. Mind you, Scott did not contribute to this discussion. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 17 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

I think we have two poins that both have evidence to back them up re. Moenghus' power levels (over 9000 or not? haha). However I am inclined to believe that Moenghus was weak and that the description of Mallahet as very powerful is actually something Scott revised as the narrative progressed rather than an error in Nansur intelligence. That's what I like about this forum, posters here usually have some good arguments for a number of possibilties and express them clearly and convincingly <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

However I love a good baseless conspiricy theory(as you may know) and thus would like to offer a third possibility that ties in with my dim suspiscions about the true nature of the Dunyain. Perhaps Mallahet was not Mo, but another Dunyain and Moenghus was not a renegade but actually a tool of the dunyain's master ploy that involves manipulating Kellhus, the Cellomomian prophecy, the TTT and everything. Thus blue eyes and scarred arms, as he would have also had to travel the Scylvendi homelands and may have been less ignorant of their customs thanks to Mo's intel and more a emotional 'failure' of the test against the legion within could have been sent. I suspect that the top level of the dunyain hierachy is an unrevealed and key player in Earwa and the 2nd apocolypse.

Consider that Kellhus never felt the need to present a fake name and I can see no reason why Mo would do so either. Also include Moenghus' capitulation to Kellhus &quot;aw yeh, I spend a lot of time in the probability trance but I never thought he'd stab me...duh&quot;. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 17 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Nerdanel, Peralogue

Kellhus is not omniscient. In his discussion with his father he guessed a lot of things and Moënghus didn't say if he was correct or not. Kellhus's estimations of Moënghus's strength could have been entirely wrong while Moënghus smiled inwardly about how he had managed to mislead his enemy into underestimating him.

Kellhus thought that the Dûnyain had bred themselves free from most passion, but it could also be that they had simply became masters at repressing themselves, while their passions remained bottled up inside of them. For all his insight, Kellhus isn't good at questioning himself and his assumptions. He is even proud of having been Conditioned!

By the way, can someone please point me to the scene where Eleäzaras thinks about the Cishaurim attack on the Scarlet Spires that killed the formed Grandmaster? I can't remember where it was. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 17 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Nerdanel&quot;:24pd5h2w
Kellhus is not omniscient. In his discussion with his father he guessed a lot of things and Moënghus didn't say if he was correct or not. Kellhus's estimations of Moënghus's strength could have been entirely wrong while Moënghus smiled inwardly about how he had managed to mislead his enemy into underestimating him.

Kellhus thought that the Dûnyain had bred themselves free from most passion, but it could also be that they had simply became masters at repressing themselves, while their passions remained bottled up inside of them. For all his insight, Kellhus isn't good at questioning himself and his assumptions. He is even proud of having been Conditioned![/quote:24pd5h2w]
Everything you say could be true. Kellhus, arch-manipulator and exquisite student of humanity, might have been mistaken. Moënghus might have been manipulating Kellhus and had developed the Psukhe to such an extent that teleport was possible and he simply flitted out of the cave he was in to seek (heroic!) first aid elsewhere. For all we know Moënghus or Kellhus might have been replaced by an ensoulled skin spy. The only thing wrong with all these scenarios is that there is precisely no evidence to support them. We must accept what the novels present in reasonably good faith.

By the way, can someone please point me to the scene where Eleäzaras thinks about the Cishaurim attack on the Scarlet Spires that killed the formed Grandmaster? I can't remember where it was.

Again, I don't have the books to hand, but try the aftermath to the battle of Mengedda in WP. Eleäzaras and Iyokus survey the battleground and almost cackle with glee that 10-20 Cishaurim effectives had been turned off by mundane means, i.e. without the (risky) intervention of any Spires men. I think that they (or one of them) reminisce about the initial attack by the Cishaurim and again wonder at the silence of Cishaurim sorcery. (Let me know if I'm wrong.) view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 17 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by anor277, Didact

Just apropos of the discussion and the difference between Anagnostic/Gnostic and Cishaurim sorcery (why the latter is silent in practice), I find this interesting remark by Scott on the ask the author threads, [url:2ceuvuck]http&#58;//forum&#46;three-seas&#46;com/viewtopic&#46;php?f=14&amp;t=1025&amp;st=0&amp;sk=t&amp;sd=a&amp;start=15[/url:2ceuvuck].

I won't quote the passage here because some regard authors' remarks as spoilers, but it differentiates the &quot;Passion of God&quot; from the &quot;Thought of God&quot;, which Gnostic and Cishaurim sorcery respectively recall. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 18 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Nerdanel, Peralogue

The scene with Eleäzaras after Mengedda isn't the one... I've noticed that Bakker is one of the harder authors to find specific quotes from. I think it's the frequent POV changes and opaque chapter titles along with the amount of internal action that is not particularly dependent on plot or location and therefore doesn't develop memory connections to such in my mind. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 18 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Nerdanel&quot;:1j4wkosf
The scene with Eleäzaras after Mengedda isn't the one... I've noticed that Bakker is one of the harder authors to find specific quotes from. I think it's the frequent POV changes and opaque chapter titles along with the amount of internal action that is not particularly dependent on plot or location and therefore doesn't develop memory connections to such in my mind.[/quote:1j4wkosf]

Ah well, it must be somewhere. And from memory it did seem that the Cishaurim assassins had &quot;simply&quot; teleported into the Scarlet Spires premises. But I still maintain that Kellhus' use of teleportation was absolutely original. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 28 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Nerdanel, Peralogue

I still don't have the quote that would shed light on the teleport issue, so I'm tackling a related issue behind the theory that Moënghus faked his death.

I'm going to believe Moënghus when he said that Maithanet simply wasn't good enough and he wanted the aid of a full-blood Dûnyain, since otherwise he doesn't have any conceivable motivation in summoning Kellhus. The only place Moënghus could get a full-blood Dûnyain is Ishuäl. The problem is, the Pragmas want nothing to do with him and definitely do not have his best interests at mind after all those who have known Moënghus, and are thus able to receive dreams from him, are forced to commit suicide to preserve the hermetic purity of Ishuäl.

So the Pragmas decide to send Kellhus as an assassin. Of course they know that they cannot control him after he leaves their clutches, but they are intimately familiar with Dûnyain psychology and know that outside of the strict hierarchy of Ishuäl, Dûnyain do not play nice together. Kellhus and Moënghus would be natural enemies, neither settling for less than ultimate power and only using each other as disposable tools. In that kind of struggle, the advantage goes to the one who stabs the other in the back first. The details of the battle would be unknowable due to the Pragmas having no knowledge of the outside world, but Kellhus would have a decent chance of winning, and more if Moënghus had been changed by the world to be foolish enough to think that Kellhus would happy to serve him. Moënghus may even have requested specifically for his son just to give the idea that he had lost his heartless Dûnyain edge.

If the Pragmas had judged it likely that sending Kellhus would actually help Moënghus rather than get him killed or force him to kill Kellhus, all his efforts having gone to naught, I think they would have rather killed Kellhus than sent him to help Moënghus.

But Moënghus is familiar with the Dûnyain and could predict the Pragmas' action and in fact counted on it. Moënghus thinks he can manipulate events so that he can get around either being killed by or being forced to kill Kellhus. The solution is arranging a fake death for himself so that Kellhus no longer seeks Moënghus's death and reverts to acting like a normal Dûnyain set loose - and a Dûnyain is an utterly predictable being if one is smart enough to follow his train of thought, like Moënghus is. Kellhus will be the Aspect-Emperor of the entire Three Seas - and Moënghus the person who can predict what he will do and guide him from afar by initiating events and rumors - and if that isn't enough he is also the person who can cast mind-control and illusion sorcery (as well as teleport) without Kellhus or his Gnosis-using sorcerers having any idea that anyone is doing anything. And mind-control has the property of making one think that the inserted thoughts are one's own... view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 29 July 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

<!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Still it would be cool if it turned out that Mallahet and Moenghus were not the same guy. And then Cnaiur turns up in book four as his manbitch, having gotten over Mo and Kellhus. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 01 October 2008 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Cynical Cat, Auditor

In order to discus Mallahet/Moenghus's strength we need to go back to the sources of our information about his strength. We have several and they are only superficially contradictory.

1) We have his high rank in the Cishaurim, but that tells us nothing about his strength since his Dunyain abilities also allow him to manipulate his way to the top of an organization.

2) We are not told about Mallahet's strength by an omniscient narrator. We have the Nansur believing him to be the second most powerful of the Cishaurim, but the Nansur are hardly omniscient. Mallahet's Dunyain abilities and skill with the more finesse orientated aspects of the Pushke explain his possession of a very high rank with the Cishaurim despite being weak in the water. The Nansur are unlikely to know that, but they are likely to know that he is greatly feared and respected. With the limited information available to them, it is quite likely that the Nansur would come to the logical and erroneous conclusion that Mallahet is strong in the water.

3) We have Kelhus's reasoning that his father is weak in the water and his father does not refute it.

4) We have Moenghus dying comparatively slowly from direct contact with a Trinket, which tends to instantly kill powerful sorcerers.

We put that together and we have only the Nansur, who have limited knowledge of the Cishaurim, believing that Mallahet is a powerful sorcerer. In opposition to that we have the reasoning of Kelhus and the evidence of Trinket's effect on Moenghus supporting Mallahet's weakness. Mallahet was weak in the water, but high in the Cishaurim. view post


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