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Do you believe a God exists? posted 19 May 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

Hehe, I only ever post crackpot theories!

I just got overstimulating reading a book called Shamanspace, it's about ancient secret societies of assasins (the Hashashim etc) whose true aim was to assasinate God. The depiction of God in that was very out of the ordinary and really got me to thinking...

But my point was that if one was omniscient, then you know everything that has happened or will happen with perfect recall then experiencing any one moment would be indistiguishable from rememberance of the past or future, one's conciousness would be locked into the totallity of existence, free will or descion making would be impossible and time an unknowable illusion. Or something. Really it's more a comment on the impossibility of omniscience in a being with any sense of self. So imo, if there is a God it wouldn't be all-knowing or all-powerful in any situation where it wanted to take action...

Ohh, it really makes my head hurt. I prefer abstract concepts like Scott's (Moenghus's) where God is viramsata.

Personally I consider myself an atheist (yeh, I don't believe I exist either) but if pushed I would tend to think of God like the Taoists, he's both zero and infinitty and men can bother with the numbers in between that they call reality.



and that post i made earlier was just a joke to loosen up the tense atmosphere that i feel everytime i see that someone had made a new post..........no offense to anyone, i love this post, don't kill it.


I appreciate your humour - it's .... edgy
(One day someone will kill me for my bad puns) view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 19 May 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

lol, edgy, very cute

shamanspace? i'll have to look that up, it sounds interesting

I see what you mean tho....interesting idea, one way or another view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 27 December 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by brandon, Candidate

i do not believe in any form of god, only science. my philosophy is basically that all religions exist in order to explain away the unknown, to limit the fear of death, and to enforce a moral code. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 03 January 2007 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by GreyMantle, Commoner

Here's my thoughts on the subject (Forgive me if I offend anyone, it's not intentional)

I'm something of an agnostic right, and trying to formulate a workable philosophy that I can use. In my opinion, it's impossible to flat out say that God does or does not exist, for the simple reason that we have no definite proof for either argument.
However, I think God's existence is more subjective. If you choose to believe, then FOR YOU he exists. If you don't, then he doesn't. In essentially, you could view it as what believe is true.

However, I personally think that the need for a God has slackened greatly in the current age.
In the past, the world was not even close to as stable as it is now. There was always the chance of a plague, or as freak war, or famine, or flooding. And for that reason, there is the need for a strong central power that is able to enforce order and ensure some degree of peace and prosperity. Only the strongest most capable would survive (Darwinism and all that). And religion in many cases provided that central power.
"God commands that you do not kill."
"God commands that you live in peace with your neighbor." and so on...
People did not have the same kinds of dreams and ambitions as now, instead focusing on eking out some sort of survival. Therefore, most fit into this mold, and the rebels had to contend with powerful forces dedicated to their church, or king, or whatever.
Kings fit into this mold as well. They would claim their power came from God, and would expect others to obey them, which they did.

But now, the world has changed. Advanced technology has eliminated disease, famine, etc., from most of the world. And suddenly we depend less on higher authorities to make sure we survive. Instead we depend on our machines. We are the Inchoroi, empowered by Tekne to will ourselves through hardship without outside influence. And God has become obsolete. To quote Nietzsche, "But when Zarathustra was alone he spoke thus to his heart: 'Could it be possible? This old saint in the forest has not yet heard anything of this, that God is dead!'" view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 05 January 2007 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

I was born into this world without any saving grace/religion. It is interesting to me that people can "choose" a religion, and always more interesting that people believe that a religion (or it's prophets) might "choose" them.
I do believe in God as a metaphor for collective consciousness. I do not believe that many of these things can be expressed in words, though if I were to choose a word that represents it best it might be "mystery". Perhaps God is also that which mankind finds otherwise inexpressible.
I did attend a Sufi Church for a while, long hours of chanting whipping the group into a frenzy, [/i]Allah being translated as "reality" instead of "God". Thus the chant "There is no God but God" would translate to "There is no Reality but Reality". However, I no longer believe in absolutes (this happened after reading Atlas Shrugged and realizing how angry absolutes make people). view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 05 January 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by zephyr, Candidate

However, I personally think that the need for a God has slackened greatly in the current age

But now, the world has changed. Advanced technology has eliminated disease, famine, etc., from most of the world. And suddenly we depend less on higher authorities to make sure we survive.


I do not agree with you GreyMantle. With all of human kind's advances in technologies of all types there will be more and more advanced diseases and advanced problems. Problems with anything will never be erased. It is simply how life works. Pain and suffering will always abound and people will always get hurt. The world, if it has no god, will always need one.

Here is my view on god. I believe that somewhere in the cosmos there is something. Whether it is a he, a she, a them, a thing/s, there is definitely some type of intelligence that somehow caused everything to be whether by it's intelligent design or accidentally not paying attention and Poof! here we are. In my opinion I don't really think whoever is out there really cares about us ( and if it did it does no longer). Just look at the world today. So much suffering and pain and unexcusable death of innocents all the time is happening. Does anyone really believe this is all in some god's master plan? view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 17 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by xatantius, Candidate

I don't know.
Absolutely no idea as to whether there is a God, what it is, where it is, what it's intentions are and whether it gives a damn about us. There could be, there's no explanation as to why there's not, but then again there's no explanation as to why there is either. I think it's one of those things that we'll never figure out, and even if we do, the answer won't be pretty, and people won't want to know.
Like, imagine if we found God a few billion light years away, and we go nuts and ask him if he's heard our prayers and stuff, and go 'WHATS THE MEANING OF LIFE, GOD? TELL US!!!'
What if he just shrugs his shoulders and says, 'Honestly, I just created you guys for shits and giggles, and then I got bored and made a giant lounge chair in which to travel the universe'. Bit of a let-down really.

I think it's great if religion makes you happy and gives you hope and stuff, that's fine. But it's when people start talking themselves up because of it and insisting that they're right where problems start, and so many people do that. Just accept that it's YOUR belief, and no-one elses. There are 6.3 billion unique religious views in the world, because we all have different ideas and viewpoints. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 25 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by rogue, Commoner

Any person that believes in any type of god really needs to read the information on the following website. It may be long, but well worth the time.


<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/">http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/</a><!-- m --> view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 26 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;rogue&quot;:k2eg116n
Any person that believes in any type of god really needs to read the information on the following website. It may be long, but well worth the time.


<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/">http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/</a><!-- m -->[/quote:k2eg116n]

Thanks for posting that; an interesting read. I think that as well as having it in for amputees, God similarly dislikes Type 1 diabetics. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 26 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

Seems to be based on the assumption of a christian god, where if he exists then he must give a shit about me. What about some older variants, e.g. god as Aten - gives both life and cancer....

Well, you did say any god. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 27 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by rogue, Commoner

I can only assume you didn't read the entire thing, otherwise you would understand that it applies to every god. Yes, the site is using Christians as an example, but it also talks about Mormons, Jews, and Muslims. Oh, and Santa. There are also a few times it refers to Ra, Zues, etc. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 28 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Harrol, Moderator

I believe in God because there is proof of the devil. My proof is musicians like Hall and Oates only the devil would make crap like that or Pink or even worse Earth, Wind and Fire. All conclusive proof that satan is real and active. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 28 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Israfel, Peralogue

Although if I recall, many religions have deities that are supposed to be responsible for nasty stuff, or reflect the negative side of a good/evil dichotomy, from Set to Loki... view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 28 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by rogue, Commoner

Harrol, just because you don't like certain musicians doesn't make then satanic or evil. What kind of proof is that? Other than the fact it shows you are absurd and ignorant, your statement is meaningless. You are full of opinions and have no concrete evidence to back it up. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 29 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Harrol, Moderator

It was a joke Rogue. Lay off the caffine and relax a little. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 29 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by jub, Peralogue

<!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->
I don't think you should take it that seriously rogue.
And I still haven't seen any 'concrete evidence' that backs up your belief in the non-exsistence of a higher being. Also the link you gave us disputes the importance of Religion, not God.
I really did like the part where you called Harrol 'absurd and ignorant' though, clearly shows your superiority. And I assume you know Harrol in person, because the irony created from that post would just be to much to handle if you didn't. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 29 February 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

Quote: &quot;rogue&quot;:3oqdvk04
I can only assume you didn't read the entire thing, otherwise you would understand that it applies to every god. Yes, the site is using Christians as an example, but it also talks about Mormons, Jews, and Muslims. Oh, and Santa. There are also a few times it refers to Ra, Zues, etc.[/quote:3oqdvk04]

Yeh, I didn't read the whole thing, struck me as very similar to pro-christian literature for some reason. Same 'preaching to the converted' tone, I guess.

PS Hall &amp; Oates have been indepentantly evaluated as evil by a council of sainted lemurs, plus one time I spilt some holy water on a cassette of them and it burst into flame. 8o view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 01 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Harrol, Moderator

Well if the council of sainted lemurs says their evil then lets break out the oil and wood. <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: --> As far as proving the existence or absence of God. This seems to go nowhere. Sorry but people are just going to disagree about this one. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 05 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;jub&quot;:1wjndnlk
:roll:
...............
And I still haven't seen any 'concrete evidence' that backs up your belief in the non-exsistence of a higher being. Also the link you gave us disputes the importance of Religion, not God.
................[/quote:1wjndnlk]

Just wanted to add that I tend to doubt that any such evidence that &quot;proves&quot; the non-existence of a higher being could exist. It's a bit of a non-sequitir; belief in God or a higher-being is subject to neither proof nor disproof.

As regards the link Rogue supplied, it does give us ample evidence that the higher being (however we define him) is not much interested in healing amputees (He isn't interested at all in fact). I think that is sufficient grounds to with-hold our worship. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 08 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by jub, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:2il6hrge

Just wanted to add that I tend to doubt that any such evidence that &quot;proves&quot; the non-existence of a higher being could exist. It's a bit of a non-sequitir; belief in God or a higher-being is subject to neither proof nor disproof.[/quote:2il6hrge]

Exactly.

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:2il6hrge

As regards the link Rogue supplied, it does give us ample evidence that the higher being (however we define him) is not much interested in healing amputees (He isn't interested at all in fact). I think that is sufficient grounds to with-hold our worship.[/quote:2il6hrge]

On what basis can you justify the claim that this divinity-in-question is not interested in us? And I am quite certain if you look - try thinking first - you will find dozens of logical arguments as to why a God would choose not to heal amputees. This argument alone accounts to nothing. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 08 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;jub&quot;:126cl13p
On what basis can you justify the claim that this divinity-in-question is not interested in us? And I am quite certain if you look - try thinking first - you will find dozens of logical arguments as to why a God would choose not to heal amputees. This argument alone accounts to nothing.[/quote:126cl13p]

Name one such argument; if God intercedes on behalf of cancer victims and those threaened by bush fires, I doubt it will be logical and sound. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 09 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by jub, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:1v5upd97

Name one such argument; if God intercedes on behalf of cancer victims and those threaened by bush fires.[/quote:1v5upd97]

Who said God interceds at all? And what's to say this life is just a test? It would be rather silly if the examiner helped you with your final exam don't you think? view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 09 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;jub&quot;:3qdbiej9
Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:3qdbiej9

Name one such argument; if God intercedes on behalf of cancer victims and those threaened by bush fires.[/quote:3qdbiej9]

Who said God interceds at all? And what's to say this life is just a test? It would be rather silly if the examiner helped you with your final exam don't you think?[/quote:3qdbiej9]

I did, for the sake of argument. Earlier, however, you made a claim that dozens of &quot;logical&quot; arguments could be proposed for God's pathological dislike of amputees and his stubborn intransigence with regards to answering their prayers. I asked you to voice one of them. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 10 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by jub, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:s5vvgmiu

I did, for the sake of argument. [/quote:s5vvgmiu]
I'm not saying that God intercedes. So I'm not sure why you would throw that in.

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:s5vvgmiu

Earlier, however, you made a claim that dozens of &quot;logical&quot; arguments could be proposed for God's pathological dislike of amputees and his stubborn intransigence with regards to answering their prayers. I asked you to voice one of them.[/quote:s5vvgmiu]

I made no such claim. You are putting words in my mouth. I never said this God dislikes amputees I also never said this God was stubborn or intransigent. A God that is stubborn? Kinda contradicts the idea of God.
However I did say there are dozens of logical arguments that could explain why a God would choose not to heal amputees, or in broader terms, why a God would choose not to intercede in our lives.
1.) It would destroy all the current belief systems as well as social order.
2.) If this God rewarded he would also have to punish in order to keep balance.

The link provided before is as useless attempt to hurt current religions and beliefs in a biblical God. It is a pointless rant, backed up by a biased view, by some atheist with a grudge. And please, for future discussion, can we refrain from using a bib lical account of God? It is flawed, we all know it, it's been known since antiquity. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 10 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;jub&quot;:2d6nfk5q
..........
However I did say there are dozens of logical arguments that could explain why a God would choose not to heal amputees, or in broader terms, why a God would choose not to intercede in our lives.
1.) It would destroy all the current belief systems as well as social order.
2.) If this God rewarded he would also have to punish in order to keep balance.

The link provided before is as useless attempt to hurt current religions and beliefs in a biblical God. ................[/quote:2d6nfk5q]

I don't think the link is all that useless in its attempt to discredit current religious belief. Granted, a God that heals amputees might seem to provide evidence that God intercedes in our lives, but since God also allows starfish and crabs to regenerate lost limbs, the occasional stump of an amputee growing back an arm or a leg might not excite such comment if He or She had been doing it throughout human history. This might not have the effect of destroying the social order as you suggest, and the amputee might well be of the opinion, &quot;Bugger the social order, give me my lost limb back&quot;. After all, as the link demonstrates, many attribute the remission of a cancer patient to God's intercession in actual human life, and this has had no palpable influence on human behaviour and society.

At any rate we are attributing to an entity, for which no evidence exists and for whom no evidence can be adduced, potential motives and rationalizations for his imagined behaviour. And if you don't want to use biblical sources, which sources do you want to substitute in their place? view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 10 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

Is it not within the realms of possibility that science might find a way to heal amputees? I think that such a thing is not only possible but fairly likely if medical science proceeds at its current rate. Ironic perhaps that it is primarily religious groups who would like to halt such research, eh? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 10 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Israfel, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;jub&quot;:jlyhxjod
The link provided before is as useless attempt to hurt current religions and beliefs in a biblical God. It is a pointless rant, backed up by a biased view, by some atheist with a grudge. And please, for future discussion, can we refrain from using a biblical account of God? It is flawed, we all know it, it's been known since antiquity.[/quote:jlyhxjod]

I believe that the problem there comes from the fact that most Christians I know object to the accusation that they are 'picking and choosing' their Christianity. However, unless you are taking the bible in its entirety (at least the sections Jesus doesn't openly say he's revoking) completely literally then in a sense you are indeed just picking and choosing* and you have very little ground to stand on when you criticise other variants of Christianity, or even the other Abrahamic religions. You're relying on flawed human reasoning to pick and choose which parts of the good book/equivalents you believe...

Of course, if you're fine with that, then there's no problem in not using biblical accounts of God.


* (although from the arguments I've seen about how apocrypha got labled as such probably even if you are taking it literally, but that's a different argument) view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 13 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by jub, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:oob0qsgk


I don't think the link is all that useless in its attempt to discredit current religious belief. [/quote:oob0qsgk]
I would quote all the flaws in his arguments but that would take to long and I don't have the patience.

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:oob0qsgk

This might not have the effect of destroying the social order as you suggest, and the amputee might well be of the opinion, &quot;Bugger the social order, give me my lost limb back&quot;. After all, as the link demonstrates, many attribute the remission of a cancer patient to God's intercession in actual human life, and this has had no palpable influence on human behaviour and society.[/quote:oob0qsgk]

&quot;Aged sir, I who came to you am a god immortal, Hermes. My father sent me dowde and go with youn to guide and go with you. But now I am going back again, and I will not go in before the eyes of Achilleus, for it would make others angry for an immortal god so to face mortal men with favour.&quot; From the Iliad book 24.

And your example of cancer patients; well if God came down and said &quot;Be Cured!&quot; and all saw this I'm quiet sure this would cause a few ripples through society. Having a Christian, for example, say it was God's intervention that cured them isn't going to turn many heads, but if that person had solid evidence that it was God, well, you see how many people flock to see some so called mircale, imagine if that mircale was proof of God's exsistence. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 14 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Israfel, Peralogue

I always thought it was a bit rich of Hermes there, since the Greek Gods show favour right left and centre. And of course, the 'make others angry' justification is only one that works for polytheism. I do of course realise you didn't mean that part literally, however...

My problem with the fact that it would turn heads by having solid evidence of divine intervention is that it comes down to who arranged things so that they would seem to be 'evidence' - why, it turns out to be God. This is a God who could just have easily have placed a few loopholes in his creation to allow him to effect cures for cancer patients, amputees, sick babies etc, while keeping everything else the same and leaving people to wonder. It doesn't matter if we ourselves can't immediately think, or even ever conceive of such a way. Because this is an all-powerful, all-knowing God who could do things like that, not just some hack off the streets of the Norse pantheon... <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 16 March 2008 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by jub, Peralogue

<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> I hope you're not refering to Odin? At least he had character <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


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