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Do you believe a God exists? posted 17 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Can it be my favorite word to it just replaced religiose. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 18 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Randal, Auditor

I didn't know that was such a rare word... sounded right. (then again, English isn't my native language)

As for faith... there are a few things I believe that have no real rational basis. (okay, probably more than a few if I take a real close look.) But I don't think stuff like putting money on the bank is "having faith." Yes, the bank can fold, but that happens very, very rarely. Banks like these have existed for a century or more without problems, and if they were threatening to collapse there would be warnings. It's possible something unexpected will happen and all the money will dissappear. But it's not very likely, so it's more sensible to put the money on the bank for the sake of convenience and interest than it is to keep it in an old sock under your pillow. After all, there are risks no matter what you do, the house might burn down or get burgled. The bank poses the safest option.

But for other things, yes, there is stuff I take on faith. I believe people are to be trusted, untill they prove otherwise. I believe in progress. I believe our current world is better than the one of a hundred years ago, and that the one in a hundred years will be better still. I believe altruism is worthwile in and of itself, without any external incentive. I believe these things and more, not because of any real evidence that shows them to be so, but because I think the world is a better place to live in if people believe things like these, and because the alternatives are either a scepticism so extreme it's crippling, or another set of equally unwarranted assumptions. I'll chose the optimistic ones, in such a case.

Still, none of that enables me to suspend disbelief far enough to accept the existence of God, or Zeus, or psychics, or government conspiracies. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 18 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> ..government conspiracies....anyway, yes, faith in somthing that is likely to happen, and faith in the unlikely are definitely on opposite sides of the spectrum of faith. I guess the question of Christianity is how much faith do you have? And I loath to admit this, but Christians sometimes have petty contests to see who has the most faith <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> .

What I don't like is Christians who don't question what their faith stems from at all. For example, I have faith because, one, it's nice to think there is a being out there that loves everyone no matter what, and two, the probabilities of the Big Bang being the author of life is unlikely to me. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but without some kind of force guiding it along, the possibilities that it created life are astronomical. A lot of non christian scientist agree and have come to this conclusion...not that a god exists but that they need to rethink the Big Bang theory. Besides, what came before the big bang?

I wana say, too, that I appreciate your comments, randal and gierra, and wana thank you for being so excepting and patient with someone so stubborn. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> As for the government conspiracies, if you don't believe in those, you're going to hell! Just kidding. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 18 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Randal, Auditor

Shh, not so loud. The evil black helicopters are listening.

Anyway, on the big bang I think you're missing the point, slightly. Nobody ever said it's the &quot;author of life&quot; or something. It did not &quot;create life&quot; either. Rather, a better way to state things would be:

The evidence we currently have seems to indicate that the universe, as we know it, began with what is commonly called the &quot;big bang.&quot;

The big bang is the beginning of the universe, it didn't create anything, it doesn't explain where we come from or where we're going. It's simply something important that happened a long time ago. (quite literally, at the beginning of time.) It's the &quot;how&quot; rather than the &quot;why.&quot; Science doesn't answer &quot;why&quot;.

As for the the odds of creating life being astronomical... well, how do you know that? It seems quite likely to me that given the size of the universe and the time it has existed, the odds of creating life are pretty good. We haven't quite recreated life yet in our laboratories, but we're getting there. I would be very much surprised if there were no alien life forms in different part of the universe.

And anyway, even if the odds were small, that doesn't prove there's a guiding principle behind it. Sometimes things happen against the odds. Or perhaps there were a couple billion universes before this one with no life in them, only we don't know that because there was nothing to observe them.

What came before the big bang? Now, that's where science calls it a day, shrugs, and admits total ignorance. There are a couple of hypotheses out there, I believe. Superstring theory posits something existing prior to the big bang, iirc. But I'm very hazy on this, and anyway that superstring stuff is about as esotheric as science gets.

At this point in the discussion, I say we don't know, and possibly cannot know. Maybe in a few centuries someone will come up with a good explanation... maybe.

Thing is, adding &quot;god&quot; or a &quot;prime mover&quot; to the equation doesn't help answer this question. It merely replaces the difficult question &quot;what came before the big bang&quot; with the equally impossible &quot;where does god come from&quot;.

And even if that question somehow doesn't bother you, this is the god of the gaps. The big bang may be the biggest gap we have, but saying Goddidit just because we can't find another explanation isn't very sensible, in my opinion. It didn't work for explaining thunderstorms or earthquakes, and it probably won't work here either. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 19 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

well...belief in God or a god (or however you want to spell it <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> ) has nothing to do with explanation. faith, theoretically anyway, goes without explanation or complete understanding or perfect reasoning for that matter. faith simply is.

as for evolution and the big bang, I don't really see how those things couldn't co-exist with the idea of a supreme being. It's quite obvious that people adapt to their envioronments, and if the structure of the universe suggests a big explosion made it as it is today, then so be it. those things are easy to have faith in. there is sound, reliable, observable evidence behind them. but there is no way in knowing that for sure, because there is no way in knowing anything for sure. and it's the exact same way with God.

the idea of God is that he came before, and simply that...it's quite simple to comprehend because there's no real reason to question it. see, i'm completely happy with not knowing why and how the universe was made, it's just another uncertainty, another unkown.

we see patterns in the world. only if we conform to the patterns may we survive. after a while, we found out that the more we learned of these patterns, the more power we held in the world. the idea is that not only do these patterns not apply to God, but also that he created them. he stands outside of time and reason and our complete understanding.

i know, it's easy to argue that this kind of thinking hinders understanding of our world and that people who think like this are unrealistic and want to give the meaning and origin of life a simple explanation. but that's not the case at all. God isn't simply the Christian's explanation, he's the Christian's creator, everyone's creator, for that matter.

It doesn't obligate me or anyone to believe this, nor does it hinder the growth of the mind or civilized society in any way. And so when someone asks me, &quot;why do you believe in God?&quot; I respond &quot;why not?&quot; and that truly is my whole explanation, because in a world were nothing is certain, why should the existance of the entity who created it be certain? view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 20 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

i don;t think that the existence of god negates the big bang, and vice versa. the reason that scientists cannot (and probably will never) know what happened before is that all our laws of physics relate to our universe, but since it is impossible to tell what happened before the beginning of the universe, all our posturing and comtimplating will do nothing, because those laws don;t necessarily comply with what existed before, if anything. the big bang was the beginning of what we have now, and the end of what was before.

i don;t know if any of that made any sense, actually. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 20 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Randal, Auditor

Made sense to me, and I agree with what you said.

Though some of the more far-out hypothesises actually do say something about existence prior to the Big Bang. Superstring theory, I believe. (But I don't know jack about that.) It's not much more than speculation, though. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 21 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator


i don;t think that the existence of god negates the big bang, and vice versa. the reason that scientists cannot (and probably will never) know what happened before is that all our laws of physics relate to our universe, but since it is impossible to tell what happened before the beginning of the universe, all our posturing and comtimplating will do nothing, because those laws don;t necessarily comply with what existed before, if anything. the big bang was the beginning of what we have now, and the end of what was before.

i don;t know if any of that made any sense, actually.



Exactly. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 21 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Zarathinius, Auditor

I have spent quite a bit of time trying to get over the &quot;Christians are hypocrites&quot; attitude, since the mere word &quot;Christian&quot; has become so overarching and interpreted in so many ways that blaming Christians for anything is a great way of insulting somebody you don't intend to insult. The actual hypocrites and Fundamentalists often claim a monopoly on Christianity, which is the source of most animosity towards Christians as a whole.

But anyway, to get back on track with the topic, I must say that I do not believe in a personified, intelligent, or unified divine being, which I suppose is a liberal interpretation of Deism. I personally do not feel despair or hopelessness when confronted with the idea that our existence has no purpose or meaning. After all, who is to say what it means to have purpose or meaning? Life is life, and anything beyond can only be speculated upon in a psuedoscientific manner, since it is beyond our physical senses. The metaphysics of faith are dangerously open to human error and logical fallacy, which is where the problems arise. Metaphysics can be defined as truths that can be realized by thinking about them, so how can we know one person's metaphysical realization is &quot;more true&quot; than another's? In my humble opinion, I would rather accept my ignorance than create my own perception of reality.

I realize what I say may offend, baffle, or irk some people, but I ask that you not hold it against me if this is the case. (i.e. I didn't try to hurt anybody's feelings.) view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 21 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Randal, Auditor

Pfff. That won't offend anyone. There are plenty of people in this thread who have stated something to similar effect. At worst, you'll get people who disagree with you.

I don't, except perhaps possibly about the metaphysics part. &quot;Truths that can be realised by thinking about them&quot; sounds a bit vague to me to warrant the label &quot;truths.&quot; Me, I'd define it as &quot;stuff we can only speculate about&quot; view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 21 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Zarathinius, Auditor

&quot;Truths that can be realised by thinking about them&quot; sounds a bit vague to me to warrant the label &quot;truths.&quot; Me, I'd define it as &quot;stuff we can only speculate about&quot;


Precisely my point. When reality has to be processed in our minds, what is there to stop our minds from interfering with what our senses percieve? Next to nothing, the exception being a skeptical attitude. Believe it or not, the idea of metaphysics was (or maybe still is, I don't know) considered as respectable as real physics by many intellectuals. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 21 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by xhaldur, Candidate

to answer the original question of this thread, I believe thousands of gods exist.

Some people call me a neo-pagan or whatever.

Personally, I believe that men make gods. I believe that in the beginning, a god is just an idea, but after hundreds, thousands, even millions of people continually pray/worship to a certain deity, that deity is then made real.

I make my own scented oils, incense, altars, charms. I've been working silver and other metals for over 10 years so I'm good at the whole charm thing by now hehe. I always wear around 3-6 charms on my body everyday and won't leave the house without them. I know that seems wierd and I suppose it is a little =P

One thing I do is keep my personal practices to myself. I usually don't talk about them to anyone, I keep it a private relationship between the deities that I do worship and myself.

I think religion is a good thing, it helps inspire many people to be someone better, to help others, etc. However there's always a flipside and it's sad that we have such extremists today in the world. Like Pat Robertson and other supreme asses of the Christian right or Islamic militants who decide to kill all the infidels.

In general, I just try to be a good person and be nice to people. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 21 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

god is ike a house of mirrors.

or something like that.





i'm tired. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 21 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Quote: &quot;xhaldur&quot;:1up48h9h
to answer the original question of this thread, I believe thousands of gods exist.

Some people call me a neo-pagan or whatever.

Personally, I believe that men make gods. I believe that in the beginning, a god is just an idea, but after hundreds, thousands, even millions of people continually pray/worship to a certain deity, that deity is then made real.

I make my own scented oils, incense, altars, charms. I've been working silver and other metals for over 10 years so I'm good at the whole charm thing by now hehe. I always wear around 3-6 charms on my body everyday and won't leave the house without them. I know that seems wierd and I suppose it is a little =P

One thing I do is keep my personal practices to myself. I usually don't talk about them to anyone, I keep it a private relationship between the deities that I do worship and myself.

I think religion is a good thing, it helps inspire many people to be someone better, to help others, etc. However there's always a flipside and it's sad that we have such extremists today in the world. Like Pat Robertson and other supreme asses of the Christian right or Islamic militants who decide to kill all the infidels.

In general, I just try to be a good person and be nice to people.[/quote:1up48h9h]


You sound like the book American Gods. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 22 March 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:1ja4mxte
Quote: &quot;xhaldur&quot;:1ja4mxte
to answer the original question of this thread, I believe thousands of gods exist.

Some people call me a neo-pagan or whatever.

Personally, I believe that men make gods. I believe that in the beginning, a god is just an idea, but after hundreds, thousands, even millions of people continually pray/worship to a certain deity, that deity is then made real.

I make my own scented oils, incense, altars, charms. I've been working silver and other metals for over 10 years so I'm good at the whole charm thing by now hehe. I always wear around 3-6 charms on my body everyday and won't leave the house without them. I know that seems wierd and I suppose it is a little =P

One thing I do is keep my personal practices to myself. I usually don't talk about them to anyone, I keep it a private relationship between the deities that I do worship and myself.

I think religion is a good thing, it helps inspire many people to be someone better, to help others, etc. However there's always a flipside and it's sad that we have such extremists today in the world. Like Pat Robertson and other supreme asses of the Christian right or Islamic militants who decide to kill all the infidels.

In general, I just try to be a good person and be nice to people.[/quote:1ja4mxte]


You sound like the book American Gods.[/quote:1ja4mxte]

haha, what i was thinking exactly. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 04 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Entropic_existence, Moderator

American Gods was an interesting concept of divinity, and how not only did belief in &quot;Thor&quot; creat Thor but as people moved they made new copies of Thor. I actually really liked that theory myself and in some ways I think it is a distinct possiblity.

The greatest thing about being a free-thinker is that more philosophical thought about metaphysics and such doesn't contradict with science and observations (only adherence to dogma ever contradicts what we see around us everyday). So my stance on dieties is &quot;maybe&quot; I really don't know. But I think that human perception shapes that concept somehow. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 04 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Entropic_existence, Moderator

And on a side note... I finally made 400+ posts! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 04 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Ziin haj-Anzrini, Commoner

I spent the last hour reading through this thread and I would like to say that it is a credit to the character of the people on this forum that this thread has retained an air of civility for over a year. I have participated in many discussions such as this over the internet and they have an unfortunate tendency to fall apart.

I, for one, am a firm believer in Christianity... I won't cite my denomination because I don't want to be categorised as such. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 05 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Quote: &quot;Ziin haj-Anzrini&quot;:3cwp9hrm
I spent the last hour reading through this thread and I would like to say that it is a credit to the character of the people on this forum that this thread has retained an air of civility for over a year. I have participated in many discussions such as this over the internet and they have an unfortunate tendency to fall apart.

I, for one, am a firm believer in Christianity... I won't cite my denomination because I don't want to be categorised as such.[/quote:3cwp9hrm]

i noticed that as well. mature and tolerant people, here. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 06 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Peter, Auditor

Quote: &quot;gierra&quot;:3s7gxro5
Quote: &quot;Ziin haj-Anzrini&quot;:3s7gxro5
I spent the last hour reading through this thread and I would like to say that it is a credit to the character of the people on this forum that this thread has retained an air of civility for over a year. I have participated in many discussions such as this over the internet and they have an unfortunate tendency to fall apart.

I, for one, am a firm believer in Christianity... I won't cite my denomination because I don't want to be categorised as such.[/quote:3s7gxro5]

i noticed that as well. mature and tolerant people, here.[/quote:3s7gxro5]


Yeah, we really must do something about that. I mean what is the point of discussion boards if not to descend into petty name-calling. Next you'll be telling me that tolerant open discussion allows for people to better understand not only each other, but also the ideas involved. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 06 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Quote: &quot;Peter&quot;:24ngftdj
Quote: &quot;gierra&quot;:24ngftdj
Quote: &quot;Ziin haj-Anzrini&quot;:24ngftdj
I spent the last hour reading through this thread and I would like to say that it is a credit to the character of the people on this forum that this thread has retained an air of civility for over a year. I have participated in many discussions such as this over the internet and they have an unfortunate tendency to fall apart.

I, for one, am a firm believer in Christianity... I won't cite my denomination because I don't want to be categorised as such.[/quote:24ngftdj]

i noticed that as well. mature and tolerant people, here.[/quote:24ngftdj]


Yeah, we really must do something about that. I mean what is the point of discussion boards if not to descend into petty name-calling. Next you'll be telling me that tolerant open discussion allows for people to better understand not only each other, but also the ideas involved. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->[/quote:24ngftdj]

i actually prefer name-calling. it's far more interesting. mind you, i call everybody bad names. for no reason. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 06 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Heh as a Fark.com user by the same username I've seen where flamewars that involve religion head to, and usually it is straight to hell <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 25 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by MrJims, Commoner

I find exsistence a little too tidy for there not to be a creator. Mind if it was not so tidy we wouldn't be here to contemplate.
Religion, to me, was man's first attempt at politics. I don't think this effects the debate over the exsistence of god though. I'm roman catholic, I don't have to many problems with there view though I would like to think that god is a little cooler, the man has seen alot of shit. I use man loosely.
What I enjoy most about the idea of god during such a scientific and catagorizing time in the history of man is that his absence, quantifably, is as much of proof of his exsistence as not. Were we to prove god or better, he split the clouds, walked down stairs of air to the ground, played a game of texas hold'em (and lose cause it would be funny) and then left. We would be enslaved, hence freewill would be lost and any understandable purpose behind exsistence forfeit. Man entertaining the idea of god will do as he likes. Man knowing without doubt that god exsists will do as he's told.
If you care I'll go on, and on and on and on. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 26 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Echoex, Auditor

I find exsistence a little too tidy for there not to be a creator. Mind if it was not so tidy we wouldn't be here to contemplate.


But that's just it. Existence isn't tidy at all. Everything about the nature of the universe tells us we're not supposed to be here. Everything about the nature of our planet tells us that we're just another bead in the food rosarie.

I think religion is too tidy for there to be a creator.
.Ex. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 27 April 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by talek, Candidate

Insofar as I would use religious categories, I would go for an immanent god of everything, and various lesser gods. Immanent god of everything being identical to everything - the universe. The universe is conscious, analogically at least, insofar as it contains conscious beings. If you are conscious of a potato, then in a sense the universe is conscious of a potato.

Just as neurons make a network in the human brain, the interactions of things, and especially the interactions of people via language, make up the mind of the universe. It is quite different from the human mind, e.g., bigger and more distributed. When we think or discuss, the universe thinks.

In order for the universe to be truly self-conscious, as opposed to being conscious of this or that, in this way, there has to be a sentient being who considers him/herself to be the universe, i.e., a mystic.

The universe grows and understands itself better and better, although this process is by no means straightforward. In a way, the god of everything is in its infancy. Or at least, that's the way it looks from here.

The most important growth, IMHO, is moral growth.

One nice thing about an immanent god is that it doesn't hide itself away. Open your eyes and you will see it. Open your ears and you will hear it.

There are various processes, smaller than the universe as a whole, which can also be said, analogically at least, to have mind; if you don't like the idea of polytheism, you can think of them as angels or djinn rather than gods. Religions and ideologies are entities of this kind. If you call them gods, then you have something like the Hundred Gods in the Kiunnat tradition (althogh the number 100 is arbitrary). view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 16 May 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Harrol, Moderator

I would have to say that i believe in God. At the same time I do not think that there is any physical proof of God. God is to be discovered in other ways from our physical senses. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 18 May 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

die thread die! come on people, if we don't kill this thread soon, it will lay eggs in our ears and we will have little baby &quot;is there a God?&quot; threads swarming in our brains!

and to make this post relevant, God told me to do it...lol, just kidding view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 18 May 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Quote: &quot;Edge of Certainty&quot;:2k544591
die thread die! come on people, if we don't kill this thread soon, it will lay eggs in our ears and we will have little baby &quot;is there a God?&quot; threads swarming in our brains!

and to make this post relevant, God told me to do it...lol, just kidding[/quote:2k544591]

there's nothing wrong with discussing religion. at least there has been discussion here, and not flaming. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 18 May 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

I was just thinking .... if there was an omniscient entity (like God, for example) and it knew everything (that's everthing, ever) it wouldn't be capable of thinking, would it? Or percieving time... Or worrying about saving the queen...

But if it can't think, then it isn't - at least according to Descartes (that was him that said I think therefore I am, wasn't it) and he was way smarter than me. view post


Do you believe a God exists? posted 19 May 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

k....this is where the crackpot theories come in.....i don't think that God &quot;thinks&quot; in the traditional sense that he has a carbon based brain. Theologically speaking, thinking, feeling, loving, pain, pleasure, and whatnot, as we know them are physlical and scientifically explained manifestations of their counterparts in the &quot;spirit realm&quot; or whatever the hell (haha) you want to call it.

and that post i made earlier was just a joke to loosen up the tense atmosphere that i feel everytime i see that someone had made a new post..........no offense to anyone, i love this post, don't kill it. view post


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