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the bible is the solution posted 14 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Aerek urs Sjaarda, Commoner

The Bible has the answers. They've remained unchanged over the last 2000 years, and were established even before that. view post


the bible is the solution posted 14 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Sokar, Auditor

I suppose you want a certain debate on this issue..perhaps you could be a little more specific, since most of the people would directly deny that! view post


the bible is the solution posted 14 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Jamara, Auditor

Quote: "Aerek urs Sjaarda":6p1ac8b2
The Bible has the answers. They've remained unchanged over the last 2000 years, and were established even before that.[/quote:6p1ac8b2]

All right. I held my tongue. But no longer. First off, 2000 years? The first half of your bible has existed for 5000 years, just ask the Jews, and take a look at how the Old Testament differs from the Torah. That is your first major point of change to the text. Second, Augustus Constantine required that the fledgingling Christian communities to unify their varying beliefs within a single book (which became the Bible) before he would publicly convert. This was a huge editing process which changed and eliminated many Gospels and Books. Thirdly, have you ever wondered why the current form of the Bible is the King James version (and the Good News is the King James version)? It's because he imposed his authority over the text and rewrote entire sections or completely eliminated some, and then had every other version of the bible existing in Europe burned. Unchanged? That is just damn ignorance. If you want to put your viewpoint up as an intelligent arguement, then check your freakin' facts. Don't just blindly follow what is fed to you. Use that grey matter and question. The bible was written by men. The Old Testament was mostly allegorical, and the new Testament so editted and rehashed it is barely a fragment of what it should be. view post


the bible is the solution posted 15 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Sokar, Auditor

The "told you so!" comes to mind... view post


the bible is the solution posted 15 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

Quote: "Jamara":2lnfp6to

If you want to put your viewpoint up as an intelligent arguement, then check your freakin' facts. Don't just blindly follow what is fed to you. Use that grey matter and question.[/quote:2lnfp6to]

I have the feeling Jamara, that none of what you say is gathered from first-hand experience and so perhaps you are the one who blindly follows what is fed you. and on top of that you don't change peoples minds by arguing angrily with them, if changing someone's mind is possible.

Not that I'm defending the christian, just think you went a little overboard. view post


the bible is the solution posted 15 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Harrol, Moderator

out of ignorance could someone tell me how the Torah is different than the Old Testament. Or atleast show me a link or a comparative book I could buy. view post


the bible is the solution posted 15 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

out of ignorance could someone tell me how the Torah is different than the Old Testament. Or atleast show me a link or a comparative book I could buy.

I'm no expert, but I believe the Torah consists of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy sometimes called the 5 Books of Moses, now if we were comparing the complete Hebrew Bible or Tanakh(sp?) to the Old Testament I think that might be where the differences occur. From what I am told the Torah is only the first part of the Hebrew Bible.

Correct me if I am wrong. view post


the bible is the solution posted 16 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Randal, Auditor

That's what I thought as well. The first five books. view post


the bible is the solution posted 21 May 2007 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Zarathinius, Auditor

Yes, yes, the Bible has the answers... the Torah I am fairly sure has most of them, although I'm sure a few might be found in the New Testament. I'm better acquainted with the Torah and Kabbala, however (not well acquainted, but better). So does Shaolin Buddhism; some of the answers are there as well. I'm sure a yogi would tell you that there are answers in Hinduism also.

Even the Principia Discordia and other works of the same nature contain answers, although their focus tends to be on helping us find the answers for ourselves.

The answers are everywhere, Aerek urs Sjaarda. Don't look for them in just one place. Even an atheist can find them; the whole process is more about personal choice than specific paths.

But then, I'm speaking in vague generalities. Oh well. view post


the bible is the solution posted 29 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by dirk69er, Candidate

Jamara, you my good sir are correct, mostly.

Constantine's council of Nicaea was held to streamline Christian beliefs so as to stop causing problems in his empire. The main issue was the persons of God and Jesus and just who they were. Most religious leaders at the time professed God and Jesus as two seperate beings. Others claimed that they were one, this conflict in beliefs caused fissures in his empire. He forced the religious leaders to combine their belief to what is commonly know as the Trinity. Although at the time only God and Jesus were mentioned.

And Constantine did not convert to Chritianity until he was on his death bed. The resolution of this issue was not the reason for his convertion.

Of course I believe the Bible has many good things in it. It was a book that was ahead of its time in many areas. Such as Job mentioning the Earth was round a few hundred years before Galileo's theory of heliocentricity. Also in matters of sanitation the Bible has shown itself superior to what was viewed at the time of the writing of some of its books. Such as the Israelites being instructed to excrete outside of there camps at an instructed distance as opposed to the Egyptians who believe rubbing human excrement on some wounds would heal them.

Then there are the morals that the Bible presents. Granted a lot of people have trouble with the Bible because they do not want to be told what to do. But the guiding principles found therein are still beneficial today.

Do you deny that the world would be a better place if everyone followed the advice at Matthew 7:12?

Anyway, the issue that people have is not with the Bibile per se but with religion and the way they represent the Bible. Religion as a whole is totally controlling and unethical, especially when upholding Bible standards. The Bible is misrepresented through them and as a result many form a paradigm of this book.

Even though I am a biology major and believe in evolution, I have taken the time to read the Bible many times in fact, through different versions and translations. And I can say that it contains good 'stuff'.

Disclaimer: This post was not intended to offend anyone. view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Harrol, Moderator

Dirk you sound a lot like Thomas Jefferson. My question is why would God allow His word to be so misused without consequences? view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Israfel, Peralogue

The same reason he allows human beings to kill and torture each other in his name? Surely whatever reason/s cover/s that would do fine for human beings altering holy texts... view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Curethan, Didact

What was the question again? view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by dirk69er, Candidate

Harrol, since I do not know you well enough, I don't know whether to take that as a compliment or not. =) view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by dirk69er, Candidate

Harrol,

Who says that there will not be consequences? In reading the Bible I remember there being an account about Job suffering evil at the hands of the devil. All that he suffered was allowed by God.

Now one would ask, 'why would God allow a man who was described as upright before the eyes of God, to suffer evil?' I too pondered this but then no sooner than I gave up the Bible offered the answer a few verses later.

The devil made a claim that man would only serve God out of selfishness. So God allowed the devil to prove his point. Ultimately, even though Job had to suffer evil, God was proven right as Job remained faithful. And Job was rewarded for his faithfulness with ten times more than what he owned previously.

Maybe that is what God is doing to today. Perhaps he is giving us enough time to prove that we would be better off without his interference or guidance, however you want to look at it.

All I can say is, I really don't know. I just know what I have read from the book and using logic and reason conclude that this might be a possiblility.

It is kind of the same thing as being a father. And someone accusing you of be a terrible father and telling others about how bad you are. Of course the natural inclination is to deny thise vehemently maybe even violently. But such a reaction might just confirm the accusations. Rather, displaying that you are a good father would be stronger than anything you may say.

What is the old saying, "actions speak louder than words.'

Anyway it's not for me to interpret the Bible. I just like to keep an open mind and consider all the possibilities. Thank you! view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Harrol, Moderator

Dirk69er saying you think similar to Thomas Jefferson is a compliment from me. I love reading his thoughts on principle and life. I used to study the Bible everyday and I mean study with a Strong's concordance looking up the original words to understand their meaning. By no means am I an expert but I was a commisioned lay leader. God does promise unpleasant recompense for altering or misconstruing His Word. This used to literally
make me tremble before I taught a study and I used to try and check carefully to make sure I taught nothing out of context and yet some how i managed to foul things up anyways. In my life I have ran across Christians that do not care that they have teaching contrary to the Bible. They merely say oh thats not what it means and then they stumble around some contrived explanation that does not even make sense to them so they can go on believing what their mom and dad taught them. Where is the revence for God in that? Further more where is God to help us see clearly. I prayed about issues for years and never gained an answer. This experience is why I posted the last statement. view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by dirk69er, Candidate

Harrol,

Please do not misunderstand my last post. I do think that there will be recompense for those who change or teach ideas contrary to Bible teachings. But to say that God is not going to do anything about it would be a mistake.

What I was trying to bring out in my post, is that just because God does not choose to do anything right now about such things, does not mean he will never do so. If there is one thing I garnered from my many readings of the book is that God has his own timetable for doing things. And he always seemed to offer warnings before actually handing out any punishment. That could be the case here. But what do I know =) view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Mandati Wannabe, Candidate

I've always been under the impression, Harrol, that that particular passage in the bible, referring to your name being stricken from the Book of Life if you edit the texts (the worst possible punishment to a faithful Christian), was an addition made by man. It seeks to validate the rest of the documents with fear.
This is a pattern I've noticed with Christianity. i.e. "Let's make up our own views on God and how you should live your life because A) I said so and B) You'll burn if you don't.

The God itself, nowhere in the Bible, has told us that we MUST do something, or face eternal damnation. One of the most fundamental parts of the faith is, or should be, due to the writings in their own scriptures, that each and every one of us has free will, and thus a choice. Nothing is more important to God. We all have to choose, of our own volition, to either believe or not to believe. This extends to anything. God quite literally allows us to do anything we please, be it kindness, or harming each other, or editing the words of a paper.

If God "proved" its existence to any of us, that would be forcing us to believe, and that is not the kind of worship that God desires.

It's for this same reason that I believe that no one religion, or spiritual text for that matter, is even capable of being 100% Truth. We are all fundamentally different from each other, so how could just one interpretation of God suffice for all of us? If you choose to truly believe, then I believe God will show itself to you, as you need to view it. This doesn't make your view of God any more correct, or any more false, than anyone else's. view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Israfel, Peralogue

Yup, give me Quakers any day. view post


the bible is the solution posted 30 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Harrol, Moderator

Israfel could you please explain your post I am dense therefore I missed your point. view post


the bible is the solution posted 31 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Israfel, Peralogue

Quote: "Harrol":1knkomby
Israfel could you please explain your post I am dense therefore I missed your point.[/quote:1knkomby]

It was just a flippant reply to Mandati Wannabe <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Quote: &quot;Mandati Wannabe&quot;:1knkomby
It's for this same reason that I believe that no one religion, or spiritual text for that matter, is even capable of being 100% Truth. We are all fundamentally different from each other, so how could just one interpretation of God suffice for all of us? If you choose to truly believe, then I believe God will show itself to you, as you need to view it. This doesn't make your view of God any more correct, or any more false, than anyone else's.[/quote:1knkomby]

This could be a loose statement of what the [url=http&#58;//en&#46;wikipedia&#46;org/wiki/Religious_Society_of_Friends:1knkomby]Quakers[/url:1knkomby] (that's a link btw) tend to stress.

Or for those who dislike following links, a bit of background.

To quote from wiki:

George Fox and the other early Quaker preachers believed that direct experience of God was available to all people, without mediation (e.g. through hired clergy, or through outward sacraments). Fox described this by writing that &quot;Christ has come to teach His people Himself.&quot;


Generally the Quakers are a very nice organisation of mostly non-hierarchical Christian folk who are and have been very active in campaigning for people around the world, especially on issues of conscience. They were greatly involved in ending slavery in Britain and nowadays often are involved in anti-torture, anti-arms trade stuff. Their meetings consist of a lot of silent contemplation and waiting to be moved by God. The nicest Christians you'll encounter today, in my experience.

Hence my comment... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


the bible is the solution posted 31 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Harrol, Moderator

Well then I hope to meet some soon. I could learn alot from people like that. I am not nice and therefore could you some help there. view post


the bible is the solution posted 31 January 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Mandati Wannabe, Candidate

Except my point was that clergy and sacraments cannot show you the true God. view post


the bible is the solution posted 01 February 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Israfel, Peralogue

Quakers (in England anyway, I hear some do in America) don't have a clergy (I said non-hierarchical, remember) and I haven't noticed any sacraments. It's all about Christ/God inside you. So I don't know what you're getting at with that point, Mandati <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


the bible is the solution posted 01 February 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Mandati Wannabe, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Israfel&quot;:1yz37grn


To quote from wiki:

George Fox and the other early Quaker preachers believed that direct experience of God was available to all people, without mediation (e.g. through hired clergy, or through outward sacraments). Fox described this by writing that &quot;Christ has come to teach His people Himself.&quot;

[/quote:1yz37grn]

When I first read this, it seemed to say the exact opposite. So, you are correct, my last post was in error. view post


the bible is the solution posted 01 February 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Israfel, Peralogue

Ah, thought you'd spotted something in there I hadn't... You had me worried for a moment <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


the bible is the solution posted 11 September 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by luciferi, Candidate

ummmmmmmmm......... which bible? view post


the bible is the solution posted 11 September 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by luciferi, Candidate

My last post was meant as a jest, but it is a legitimate question of mine. Here are some questions that I believe it has no answers for (please feel free to prove me wrong):

1. According to Genesis god commanded Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowlegd of good and evil. How could God fairly give this command? To disobey could not be a sin, because Adam could not comprehend a sin until the ate of the fruit which would reveal to him the differences of right and wrong.

2. Also according to Genesis god sent a world-wide flood to envelop the world for it was wicked at the time. However he seemed to like Noah and some of his family so he saved them by telling them to build an ark and gather the animals. How could Noah and his family feed or water the animals for that amount of time on the ark by any human possibility? If they were to be preserved by miracle, the ark was not necessary-to let them swim would have answered the purpose and been more indubitably miraculous. view post


the bible is the solution posted 12 September 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Cironian, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;luciferi&quot;:31cd0mmv
1. According to Genesis god commanded Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowlegd of good and evil. How could God fairly give this command? To disobey could not be a sin, because Adam could not comprehend a sin until the ate of the fruit which would reveal to him the differences of right and wrong.[/quote:31cd0mmv]

I see this (in my my own opinion) as a story with a moral, the moral being: &quot;OBEY YOUR ELDERS WITHOUT QUESTION!!!&quot; This a typical Daddy-Knows-Best story (as the bible is just that, a collection of tales), a story that tells the readers that if you don't do exactly what your elders tell you, you will lose everything.

More optimistic is my other hypothisis. Perhaps God wanted to test his creation, humankind and its nature, its curiosity. Perhaps God was making sure that Adam possessed freedom of thought, so that humankind may survive as beings upon Earth. Perhaps God wanted to see if Adam would question authority when it gives no reason to its demands. He wanted to see if man would think for itself, and if would take the fruit anyways, just to see what would happen; to take risks, to make mistakes, to truly LIVE!

So really, there are many ways of seeing the point to God's action here, of giving Adam the conundrum he did. Perhaps it means that humans must obey the god without question, perhaps it means that to question is to be human. Perhaps something completely different? There are many meanings to something as vague and metaphorical as this tome of stories.


(P.S. This post is based purely on th hypothetical that God exists, and that the tale of Eden was actually true. I myself do not believe it is, or that God exists at all, but I have posted on these hypotheticals for sheer convenience.) view post


the bible is the solution posted 13 September 2008 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by CnaiĆ¼r, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Mandati Wannabe&quot;:1aaqwsyv


The God itself, nowhere in the Bible, has told us that we MUST do something, or face eternal damnation. One of the most fundamental parts of the faith is, or should be, due to the writings in their own scriptures, that each and every one of us has free will, and thus a choice. Nothing is more important to God. We all have to choose, of our own volition, to either believe or not to believe. This extends to anything. God quite literally allows us to do anything we please, be it kindness, or harming each other, or editing the words of a paper.

If God &quot;proved&quot; its existence to any of us, that would be forcing us to believe, and that is not the kind of worship that God desires.
[/quote:1aaqwsyv]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Free Will is the key. It is up for us to decide what we do with our own life. This is the greatest gift we were given.



Quote: &quot;dirk69er&quot;:1aaqwsyv

why would God allow a man who was described as upright before the eyes of God, to suffer evil?[/quote:1aaqwsyv]

To test our faith. Most of the time a smooth ride in life doesn't allow for personal or spiritual growth. A catalyst of some sort is needed to give that push, the motivation, the obstacles needed to overcome... with this overcoming usually sprouts growth. Ask yourself, do you notice yourself personally grow when faced with obstacles and challenges, or when faced with idleness and complacency?



Quote: &quot;Israfel&quot;:1aaqwsyv

It's all about Christ/God inside you. [/quote:1aaqwsyv]

I completely agree. Recognize this, and also recognize this in everyone and everything else. How you treat yourself is the same as how you treat God. How you treat others is the same as how you treat God. How you treat an animal, even an inanimate object is the same as how you treat God. Jesus Christ taught a simple formula on how to treat others: peace and kindness, love and forgiveness. This must be how God wishes to be treated. We have the gift of free will to decide.

That's my take on life and what I learned from the Bible.



Just remember, no matter what you do or how you live your life Sweet Sejenus still loves you.

Cheers <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> view post


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