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Breaker of Horses and Men posted 26 April 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Coldsnap, Commoner

As brilliant as the plot is, and I do truly mean that: the Dunyain phiolosophy, the clash of religions, Kellhus and Moengus, Achamian and Sesthwana... the historical clash between the ancient kingdoms and the Inchoroi, sranc, scylvendi and the No-god...

MY FAVORITE AND MOST RESPECTED CHARACTER IS CNAUIR.
Who is with me here? I see him underestimated here and there in these threads because he was world-born or not a sorceror, or one person implied he was just a product of having been used by Moenghus...

But let's not forget that he impressed Kellhus more than anyone else. I would wager he was the greatest mortal warrior to walk the earth, brilliant strategist, massive in all contexts... larger than life! His descriptions throughout the novels are fantastic, his penetration of all Kellhus tries! His one-liners are the best! Better than all the ajencis and dunyain philosophies. He is brutual and horrifying, and yet my favorite part of all the novels. My god, sometimes i reread how much he stands apart from even the Scylvendi as Most-violent of all Men! He beats sarcellus in one on one battle, he kills hundreds in the battle of Kiyuth, he give Kellhus pause in their first and only fight... and he represents, to me, a pure and brilliant anti-thesis to some of the concepts that the world seems to be run on: Dunyain perception and control, Sorcery, Religion, Inchoroi....

And so that is all I have to say as my first post! In a world so complex, full of insanely powerful creatures, sorceres, people.... Cnauir was by far my most favorite! view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 27 April 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by RazorSmile, Candidate

Can't argue with that. Here's hoping he appears in the next book - somehow. Perhaps kept in his prime by Inchoroi science or as a hivemind of Cnair-skinspies. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 29 April 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Sokar, Auditor

I am with you..I've been trying to explain how he became my favourite, but I still fail in that..I suppose there is something in his 'madness' that attracted me most... view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 01 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

While not my favorite character (Kellus is number one with me still), Cnaiur is definitely *among* my faves. He's number 3 for me (Ikurei Conphas is/was second).

He's smarter than the average man, but he still falls into some of their "low" ways (beats his women, kills children of rival, etc). Bakker spends time on Cnaiur's psyche and does a great job of explaining how Cnaiur mostly just apes the actions of his fellow Scylvendi while his inner intelligence constantly forces him to ask himself why he does what he does.

If Cnaiur was born in Nansur, I sort of imagine he'd be a great philosopher or at the very least, a highly intelligent general (Conphas level intelligence). view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 01 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Ummmm, are we forgetting something here? How about the fact that he is insane? Also racist? Every other word out of his mouth (if it's not a spit) is "the People" this and "the People" that -- he completely buys into the notion that everybody else is just sacrificial animal, whose lives are totally worthless.

His extreme misanthropy borders on the comic. Had he lived, he would surely be leading the No-God's cavalry during the second apocalypse. He's a well crafted character to be sure, but certainly not personally likable to me. I mean, ask yourself this: would you want him for a roommate? <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 01 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Curethan, Didact

Hehe. Cnaiur as a roomy. Nice.

Crazy as he was, I felt sorry for him. Conphas was a psychopath and much worse than Cnaiur. Interesting, however, that Kellhus could counter Conphas easily, yet Cnaiur's madness had a kind of quantum effect that Kehlus could not predict and was even in awe of.

The consult need Cnaiur - he'll be back imo and a showdown with older-Kellhus during the great ordeal would be sweet. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 01 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Sokar, Auditor

Actually..I have kind of idolized him..he could live in his insanity... Unlike Conphas, he wasn't delusioned..he knew what he was and what others pretended to be... When I read the parts concerning Serwe, his madness got even more appealing..the parts about Achamian and Esmenet are to feel sorry for, with Cnaiur I didn't, he cut his own throat as a swazond and that something you idolise rather than pity...

Again, I am not sure why, but Cnaiur is by far the most intriguing character..he simply in his complexity..and complex in his simplicity... And there is something of madness that keeps you wondering....

I am afraid that the consult will change that, just as Kellhus did when learing the art of war from Cnaiur.. (then again, Cnaiur's madness reached a certain hight after that <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->) Anyway, I hope that this maddening character does not become a rational general of some sort in the next of the series..would truly ruin it for me... view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 01 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

....he completely buys into the notion that everybody else is just sacrificial animal, whose lives are totally worthless.


I disagree, he simply tells himself and others, these things to try and convince himself that they are true, Cnauir maybe completely insane but its only because he lives a lifestyle that he knows he does not agree with.

Cnauir's story can be summed up in two words &quot;Inner Conflict&quot;. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 02 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:17uealzm
I disagree, he simply tells himself and others, these things to try and convince himself that they are true, Cnauir maybe completely insane but its only because he lives a lifestyle that he knows he does not agree with.

Cnauir's story can be summed up in two words &quot;Inner Conflict&quot;.[/quote:17uealzm]

Sure, he has questioned some aspects of Scylvendi custom under the influence of Mo, but I remember no instance where he has ever questioned the central tenet of Scylvendi ideology: everyone else is only sacrificial animal for the People to offer on the altar of the dead No-God.

BTW, his martial brilliance also should not be exaggerated -- certainly Conphas, probably Skauras, and maybe even Fanayal are all better than him. Remember, his incompetence nearly doomed the Inrithi on the banks of the Sempis. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 02 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Sokar, Auditor

See..here comes the difference between idolising someone to such an extent where you simply disagree with something bad being said about the character..even if grounded...
Anyway..the reason for Cnaiur not quesitoning this idealogy is because it is present in the acts of the Dunyain..at least that's how I see it in both actions of Kellhus and Moengus. And his military genius is evident from two aspects, again to me..first Kellhus wants to learn war through Cnaiur, not through Conphas, indeed perhaps because he knows how to manipulate him, whereas Conphas' vanity has always been an obstacle to that end... But also because he is of the People..they live war!
Second, there is a part I clearly remember where Caniur thinks to himself that if he would lead the battle of Kyuth? they would have won..but also Conphas himself acknowledges the strength of Cnaiur at a certain point to the end..when Caniur becomes his prisoner..where he laughs at him in disbelief that this man was the one he was afraid of..yet it is merely his vanity that takes over once again, rather the undestanding the circumstances... view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 02 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Phil, Candidate

I would also agree that Cnaiur was Conphas's better on the battlefield. The Lion of Kiyuth would have been the Dead Man of Kiyuth if Cnaiur had been in charge. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 08 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by coobek, Candidate

Agree. Cnauir is also my favourite beacuse of all the traits already mentioned above, one-liners and his barbaric intellect and madness. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 09 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Harrol, Moderator

And who else would challenge a skin spy to take a knife to his heart? view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 09 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I'm also a big fan of Cnaiur, something about the character and the conflict. I'm hoping he will be in AE as well. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 17 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Moebius, Commoner

I really like Cnauir, but he is much too confused about who he is and what he wants for him to be my favorite. I mean I guess the fact that the guy is completely insane has something to do with it, but even when he is normal or as a young man he seemed completely clueless about who he really is. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 28 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Buckethead, Peralogue

Sure, he has questioned some aspects of Scylvendi custom under the influence of Mo, but I remember no instance where he has ever questioned the central tenet of Scylvendi ideology:


i'm sorry i don't have a direct quote or specific point of reference but here goes.
i remember thinking the way you do after reading the book the first time, however after wanting to get a firmer grasp on what was going on i reread the series as closely as possible and was surprised to find that in TTT cnaiur actually begins to return to thoughts of the people's way of life being too traditional and conservative. at one point he thinks to himself that there could be no going back to that way of life because fo his disagreement to it. it is as if the more time he spends around proyas, the skin spies and the closer he gets to moenghus, the more he relapses into his young idealistic &quot;screw tradition&quot; self. he stops spending as much time telling himself he is the greatest all men and therefore the greatest scylvendi and begins to tell himself he is only the greatest of all men. i think this all culminates in moenghus' death when it is quite clear for the first time that cnaiur (although full of hatred for moenghus) really just wanted his old friend/lover/teacher and convictions back (or probably more acurately: to never have left in the first place). my take i know many will disagree... i'll try to find a quote. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 28 May 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Harrol, Moderator

I know what you are talking about. It is where he stated that he could kiss whatever lios he so choose. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 15 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by shiva, Commoner

After Cnaiur tells Akka about Kellhus and gets what he wants he doesn't kill Akka. Instead he warns Akka of Conphas' treachery and send him to warn the holy war. His last words to Akka are &quot;I'd not see Proyas dead.&quot;
He saves &quot;cattle&quot; with nothing to gain but the life of his friend, who is also cattle. there is your proof <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Shiva view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 16 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Callan S., Auditor

I always wondered if it was something about me, that I never thought he was insane. I don't like him - it was Akka that got me through the first book.

But he's never struck me as insane, like the back of the novels always refered to him as...

...now, a broken heart....that I can see. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 18 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Harrol, Moderator

Or a man who has no reference point in life outside of hate. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 19 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Callan S., Auditor

Well, exactly - no reference point except that hate, and that hate was based on...the person he loved, utterly. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 19 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Harrol, Moderator

Callan I agree. Insane? No deeply hurt and single minded? Yes. Plus a few more things that have been mentioned earlier. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 19 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

Um, I'm going to have to disagree; homey was whacked out! He was crazy! Loony! Psychotic! Off his rocker! MAD!

However it was the good kind of mad. He didn't drool on himself, or count straws in his head or any of the other stuff that would get you put in an asylum. He was just homicidal, that's all. Severely homicidal. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

His lover drove him mad. His lover's sun drove him crazy. Can you blame the guy for being a little bit loopy?

And to keep with the point of the thread...
I think he'll be much more stable when we see him next. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 22 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by slh_2000, Commoner

He'll be either stable in mind or a skin spy. either way, he MUST return! view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 22 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Harrol, Moderator

A skin spy could never duplicate Cnaiur. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 23 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Sokar, Auditor

LOL view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 23 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

Cnaiur represents to me the sheer resilience of a mind under seige. Being able not only to survive but to thrive in the presence of manipulators (until of course the ending). Cnaiur is the tragedy of the Prince of Nothing series, not to say that he's the only one, just the biggest. When a friend asked whose plight I associated myself with most in the series the answer was obvious: Cnaiur, Breaker of Men. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 24 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by non-Ajencis, Commoner

Yes, Cnaiur urs Skiotha is one of my favorite characters, too.

For some reason he reminds me of what the Mongols might have been like.

Ghengis Khan himself?

I have a niggling suspicion that Mr. Bakker models his main characters around historical figures. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 25 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Harrol, Moderator

In another thread Scott stated that he base the Scylvendi off of the Scythians and the Sarmatians not the Mongols. view post


Breaker of Horses and Men posted 26 June 2007 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by poeg, Commoner

Exactly why he's the most interesting to me. He's the only wild card in the whole deck. view post


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