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The Holy War and the Consult posted 15 April 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Holy War and the Consult by Moigle90, Commoner

this might be a stupid question but what was the connection betwween the holy war and the consult? view post


The Holy War and the Consult posted 15 April 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Holy War and the Consult by Jamara, Auditor

Moenghus discovered the skin spies within the Fanim and eradicated them. The Consult believed it was the Cishaurim alone (they didn't know of the Dunyain presence) who were getting rid of their spies. The Consult required an instrument which they could use to reach the Cishaurim and wipe them out. This instruent was the Holy War. They tried to use the Holy War to wipe out the Cishaurim. Maithanet orchestrated the Holy War because Kellhus would likewise need an instrument to reach his father. And in the Holy War, Kellhus would discover the Consult. view post


The Holy War and the Consult posted 15 April 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Holy War and the Consult by Gravity Gun, Candidate

All sorcery seem to be derived from Nonmen Gnosis, except that of the Cishaurim (forgot what it's called). What do you is the importance of that, if any? Apparently it's enough to get the Consult pretty nervous. view post


The Holy War and the Consult posted 15 April 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Holy War and the Consult by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

Jamara has it mostly right. I'm not sure I remember where it says the Consult used the Holy War to wipe out the Cishaurim. As I recall, after the Cishaurim discovered the skin spies, they assumed the Scarlet Spires created them (even though Moengus tried to dissuade them). So the Ciashaurim assasinated the Grandmaster of the Scarlet Spires in retaliation, thus starting the secret war between the Scarlet Spires and the Cishaurim. (Maithanet found out about the secret war and was able persuade the Scarlet Spires to join the Holy War because of it).

Now as far as the connection between the Holy War of and the Consult...that's a tougher question to answer. The Consult is (was?) everywhere. They'd infiltrated all the Schools, they'd infiltrated the Thousand Temples, they'd infiltrated the Shrial Knights. If there's something involved with anything in the Three Seas, skin spies are present. They're caught up in the Holy War, but they're certainly not controlling it. Maithanet and Moengus conspired to create it and Kellus later controlled it. view post


The Holy War and the Consult posted 15 April 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Holy War and the Consult by anor277, Didact

Quote: "Moigle90":3tp5veap
this might be a stupid question but what was the connection betwween the holy war and the consult?[/quote:3tp5veap]

Just to repeat what others have said earlier, the Consult conspired to effect the destruction of the Cishaurim. It was not that Cishaurim sorcery posed any threat to them (Gnostic sorcery, as Achamian had related, was superior to the Psukhe, even if the latter was mysterious). The Consult would not tolerate a group that could detect and eliminate their skin-spies, and was impervious to infiltration. Of course Cishaurim impenetrability was due to Moenghus, yet he was not in full control of the Cishaurim. The susbsequent Cishaurim attack on the Scarlet Spires (from the Consult's viewpoint) may have been seen as a further indirect attack on the Consult; the Scarlet Spires was the effectual school of the Three seas and a Consult paw.

The Holy War was thus arguably conceived by the Consult, even though Maithanet and Moenghus were willing to go along with the war for reasons of their own. view post


The Holy War and the Consult posted 16 April 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Holy War and the Consult by Jamara, Auditor

I thought it was Moenghus who conspired to attack the Scarlet Spires so as to align the Scarlet Spires with the upcoming Holy War. He knew that the Holy War would need a School to enable it to reach Shimeh. And Maithanet knew about this secret war the whole time because Moenghus plotted it with him/informed him of it. That is how Maithanet knew to solicit their aide.

The Consult saw the Scarlet Spires hate of the Cishaurim as a possible tool to destroy the Cishaurim. That is why the Synthese was always pushing that the Holy War must succeed. The Holy War would destroy their enemies for them. They just had to prod it along. view post


The Holy War and the Consult posted 16 April 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Holy War and the Consult by anor277, Didact

Quote: "Jamara":3u8gbg1g
I thought it was Moenghus who conspired to attack the Scarlet Spires so as to align the Scarlet Spires with the upcoming Holy War. He knew that the Holy War would need a School to enable it to reach Shimeh. And Maithanet knew about this secret war the whole time because Moenghus plotted it with him/informed him of it. That is how Maithanet knew to solicit their aide. [/quote:3u8gbg1g]

As I recall it was Moenghus who advised against the attack on the Scarlet Spires - he was convinced (as per Kellhus a/c in TTT) that the skin-spies were agents of the Consult, whereas his colleagues immediately assumed the Scarlet Spires. Moenghus, an indifferent practitioner of the Psukhe, only led a faction of the Cishaurim; he did not control the school. Against Moenghus' advice, a punitive mission was launched against the Spires. Of course, later, Moenghus and Maithanet were able to manipulate the Scarlet Spires unlikely recruitment to the Holy War, an easy task given their special knowledge and relationship, but by this time Moenghus' aim and the Consult's aim had similar imperatives. The Consult needed an army (+ school) to march to Shimeh, and Moenghus needed Kellhus in that army to make that same journey.

The Consult saw the Scarlet Spires hate of the Cishaurim as a possible tool to destroy the Cishaurim. That is why the Synthese was always pushing that the Holy War must succeed. The Holy War would destroy their enemies for them. They just had to prod it along.

I don't disagree with you there. I recall Conphas in the latter novels suddenly realizing that he, as Emperor designate, was not the main player, and that Nansur politics was not the centre of the world. The Consult must have come to a similar realization, when they discovered that it was not the Cishaurim that had detected their skin-spies but agents from an unknown faction, the Dunyain. view post


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