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The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 04 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Holsety, Candidate

Let me start with posts from a topic which has died. I thought about posting in there, but I wasn't sure if there were necro-posting rules here, so I've made a new topic.

Quote: "Harrol":23u57463
There is no one antagonist in this story. You have the consult, the No-God and Kellhus who can argueably be protagonists. Akka is a very human individual in fact his personality and how he feels about peopl seems very similar to Seswatha in the dreams. There are differences though, like Seswatha was politically astute where as Akka is inept because he tries to hard. Now that Akka has nothing to try so hard for he may become a master at Benjaku and therefore serve many purposes. As for turning to the consult? I doubt it. Akka will become the source of their nightmares they will scream his name in dread as his form becomes the incarnation of Seswatha on the battlefield. In TTT Akka even marvels at what he did to the Scarlet Spires because Seswatha took over in some form. Why is Seswatha so dominant in Akka and not the rest of the Mandate? I belive it is due to a kindred spirit and deeply similar motivations that go beyond simply hating the Consult.[/quote:23u57463]
Quote: "Fruitbat":23u57463
Hello... this is my first so be gentle... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->
I think Achamian the moral marker of the books. By this I mean that in a world full of near-gods, kings and the Dunyain Akka is the only character that I could really understand the motavations of. (ok... Esmi too.. but thats another chunk of a topic). At the end of TTT I don't think his leaving the Aspect Emperor's court represents a turn to powers that would seek to distroy the world. It seemed more like a man who finally really SAW what was happening and facing it. He's not running away from his future anymore, he's limping off to meet it.[/quote:23u57463]
I ital'd important parts, and bolded what I believe to be the key points I'm adopting in this post.

I couldn't help remembering Esmi's reading of The Sagas, one of my favorite parts of TTT (for anyone who's curious it all starts on 164 of the hardcover, Overlook edition). Favorite line being &quot;Scowling, she gathered them and carried them to her bed, wondering that the Apocalypse could feel so light.&quot;

Anyway, we learn a few things of import about the Anasurimbors:
-Celmomas II, the Anasurimbor who warred against the No-God, was a man of &quot;flint-hearted brilliance&quot; whose brother was stillborn; this could either relate to Kellhus, also an internally cold and calculating man, or his children, as Celmomas had a still-born brother.
-This Anasurimbor king is wise, indeed, but could ultimately only see what was self-serving.

And about Seswatha:
-He's ultimately the only wizard who really sees the truth, &quot;the gathering signs&quot; - does this relate to him now leaving Kellhus' court?
-We then get his position in several of the sagas (note there are only 8 roles given, and there are 9 sagas). I'll note the ones I got ideas about below.
1&gt;Starts as under his mighty and inconstant king.
2&gt;Is teacher and surrogate of Nau-Cayuti (who was like the best Anasurimbor till he up and died IIRC). Is this important because he teaches Kellhus, or will he teach one of Kellhus' sons?
3&gt;Powerful but resented voice in the war councils after Nau's death.
5&gt;He flees when the no-god is coming.
8&gt;Concluding saga, with Kyraneas's fall (didn't they survive and beat Mog?). He's &quot;nothing less than the world's savior&quot;.

I think it should be self-evident what my viewpoint is at this point, but I think there's strong hints that Akka is our Seswatha. He's powerful, and is one of the few people who's aware of most of what's going on, but is ultimately despised. During books 1 and 2 he is literally the only one who believes in the apocalypse, and at the end we begin to see that his expectations have held true. If his role does hold somewhat to Seswatha's, he may well be nothing less than our true hero in the series.

Another thing I find interesting is a sort of blur between Nau and Celmomas when it comes to Kellhus. If I remember correctly, Akka's pride in his student's aptitude in unraveling and elaborating on age-old philosophers, historians, and sorcerers is mirrored in one of the dreams, in terms of Nau being the greatest glory of the anasurimbors. Celmomas, meanwhile, is intelligent but not really a heroic figure, and I get the feeling Seswatha was in conflict with him more than in concurrence. Thus, Kellhus seems to mirror both Nau and Celmomas to me, but his internal personality (cold calculating) does seem to match up with Cel, even though I wouldn't describe him as particularly self-serving. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 05 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

I agree with you. There are still some unknowns but what you stated is similar to my thoughts. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 05 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Alpha Crow, Candidate

Very sharp! Nicely thought out.

The only thing I can think of for devil's advocate is that Kellhus does know the apocalypse is coming and is trying to unite humanity against it.

One thing that does stand out to me is that the author is hiding something behind Kellhus' not coming clean with what the No-God and THE God say to him and what thinks the future really holds. Most of this came to a head when he was speaking to his father in the cave. Kell knows something more than he's telling. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 05 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

True, I believe he is trying to thwart the apocalypse. Hebelieves the No-God is returning just by what the skin spies and Aurang has told him let alone from what Akka told him. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 05 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by anor277, Didact

Why should anyone feel that Achamian, alone of the Mandate, is specially linked to Seswatha? The one time we get a glimpse of Seswatha's relationship to another Mandate member (whose name I forget at the moment but he was Achamian’s bete noir on the quorum) he, the quorum member, was undergoing torment on the wall at Dagliash, apparently a favorite motif in Seswatha’s dreamscapes. I cannot therefore agree with the widespread opinion that Achamian’s relationship to the Mandate founder (whom Achamian has already denounced) as anything special. Anyway, Esmenet has already stated that Seswatha’s position in the Sagas is ambiguous, a scheming manipulator in the one source and the saviour of humanity in the next.

And should Seswatha magically appear in the modern Three-Seas, he would no doubt laud Kellhus’ abilities and decisiveness, and chide Achamian for his weakness in leaving Kellhus’ side. From what little we know of Seswatha’s persona, he was a super pragmatic bastard who would not scruple to lie or deceive or sacrifice his friends. He manipulated Nau-Cayuti (possibly Seswatha’s only son) into a mad raid on Golgotterath and after the success of the raid (for Seswatha but not for his protégé) he (Seswatha) failed to protect him. Again, Seswatha did what he had to do but I cannot see a more or less moral person, i.e. Achamian, repeating the actions of his predecessor. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 06 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Alpha Crow, Candidate

(possibly Seswatha’s only son)

M
Is that correct or meant Celmomas? view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 06 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

*Agrees with Anor*
The crux of Seswatha falling out with Celomas was an affair with his wife, I believe - thus the possibility that Nau is his (Seswatha's) son.

You could draw as many, if not more, parrallels between Kellhus and Seswatha if you were so inclined (manipulator, sorcerous prodigy etc).

Kellhus' viewpoint and beliefs are ignored for a good reason in the narrative, however the events of the AE would most likely centre again on Kellhus as the basis of the storyline, as the series is, like the first, named on him and is set 30 years after the PoN, when Akka will be rather old - 70 or 80 would be possitively decrepit in the cultural setting of the 3 seas. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 06 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Holsety, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Harrol&quot;:3pk8qpv2
True, I believe he is trying to thwart the apocalypse. Hebelieves the No-God is returning just by what the skin spies and Aurang has told him let alone from what Akka told him.[/quote:3pk8qpv2]
Ya, I think Kellhus is at least opposing the Consult. Honestly, what I'm hoping for is that we'll see more of what happened in the last book; the Consult sometimes finding itself out of its depth when dealing with Kellhus and others. Too many books have the shadowy ancient evil group shaping every event, up to the last 20 or 30 climatic pages.
Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:3pk8qpv2
Why should anyone feel that Achamian, alone of the Mandate, is specially linked to Seswatha?[/quote:3pk8qpv2]He is actually referred to as Seswatha directly during his escape. I believe one of the quotes is &quot;Seswatha was free&quot; or something like that.
Anyway, Esmenet has already stated that Seswatha’s position in the Sagas is ambiguous, a scheming manipulator in the one source and the saviour of humanity in the next.

Yes; and, specifically, a savior in the last. Moreover, as the Sagas are the view of a people as a whole, rather than an actual account of who the person actually is, Akka is already playing the role of a coward and a traitor openly by leaving Kellhus' court. The Sagas do not necessarily display that Seswatha was particularly inconstant; rather, they prove that the world's view of Seswatha is inconstant. If you ask me, Bakker does a very good job of making Akka's changing view of Kellhus, which is outwardly very erratic, is consistent with who Akka is. He even points to this:
Hated or adored, Seswatha was the pin in the navigator's bowl, the true hero of The Sagas, though not one cycle or chronicle acknowledged him as such. And each time Esmenet encountered some variant of his name, she would clutch her breast and think, Achaiman

(End of this part of the argument)
He manipulated Nau-Cayuti (possibly Seswatha’s only son) into a mad raid on Golgotterath and after the success of the raid (for Seswatha but not for his protégé) he (Seswatha) failed to protect him. Again, Seswatha did what he had to do but I cannot see a more or less moral person, i.e. Achamian, repeating the actions of his predecessor.

Seswatha didn't do what he had to do lightly; the desperation as he shouts at 'Nau's expression as much as his words' (rough quoting) makes it clear that he didn't want to lie to Nau. Also, Nau's death is attributed to poision, not the raid. The fact that the glossary says 'apparently' implies uncertainty, but that's a far cry from any basis that Seswatha caused Nau-Cayeti's death.

Other than lying to Nau, I know of no lies or manipulations from Seswatha. Moreover, the circumstances lead one to think he was willing to make sacrifices for a perceived to be a greater calling - would one call Abraham &quot;pragmatic&quot; since he was willing to kill Isaac?

And besides, Achaiman has done the same thing. Remember Inrau? Akka chose his mission as a mandate sorcerer over his pupil. If Seswatha did fail to protect Nau, it would only create another link between Akka and Seswatha.
Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:3pk8qpv2
*Agrees with Anor*
The crux of Seswatha falling out with Celomas was an affair with his wife, I believe - thus the possibility that Nau is his (Seswatha's) son.

You could draw as many, if not more, parrallels between Kellhus and Seswatha if you were so inclined (manipulator, sorcerous prodigy etc).[/quote:3pk8qpv2]
So, isn't that falling out yet again a parallel, with Akka and Kell conflicting over Esmi? Especially since Cel keeps his wife (presumably) and his son, and Kellhus keeps Esmi (some other post on here gave evidence that Esmi's son ain't Akka's, so forget that).

As far as Kellhus and Seswatha...again, see the above thing; there's very little reason to think Seswatha's manipulation is comparable to Kellhus' - manipulation is an instinct for the warrior-prophet, while Seswatha struggles over the betrayal of one person, no matter how dear. And, again, one can compare Sessa's use of Nau to Akka's use of Inrau. And as I pointed out already, the one most pointed to as a cold genius is Celo, a &quot;flint-hearted genius&quot;. Meanwhile, the respective roles of Akka and Kellhus link them to Sessa and Cel; Akka is a tutor and sorcerer while Kellhus is a military leader. Akka's sorcery is central to his characte; right now, I don't think the same can be said for Kellhus, except for his understanding of inutterals. And the Gnosis is Mandate, and an ancient sorcery, not a creation of Sessa, while the Dreams - which Kellhus does not have - are the firmest ties to Seswatha.

Then all we're left with is &quot;sorcerous prodigy&quot;. Not a very strong comparison. If you wish to draw more comparisons, then do so, but here's a list of ties and comparisons between Akka and Sessa. (Oh, by the way, Sessa is a two syllable nick used by Nau for Seswatha; Akka, Sessa...ah-kA, se-sA...but that isn't a serious comparison XD )
-Tutors
-Used students for a perceived larger purpose
-Esmi thinks of Achaiman as she ruminates on Sessa's role in the sagas, thus making ties between the roles of Akka and Sessa.
-Gnosis.
-Captured by enemies (Akka by Spires, Sessa by Consult).
+In addition, both are captured after a battle; the fall of Tryse results in Sessa's capture, while Akka is captured fighting in the library. Sessa is tortured to find out where the heron spear is. Akka is tortured about the Gnosis and about Kellhus. Neither spill the beans.
+Finally, both are thought of as heroes for this; even Nautezera lauds Akka's battle and then escape with the Spires, while the Sagas describe Sessa heroically (this one is the 4th, which I didn't deign to notice, if you look at my list above).
Quote: &quot;TTT Pg 8&quot;:3pk8qpv2
Yes! You did well, Achamian - well enough to be written! Immortalized in our annals! But what's this about lies?[/quote:3pk8qpv2]
(By the way i just realized i didn't know how to spell Akka's full name XD )
Quote: &quot;TTT Pg 172&quot;:3pk8qpv2
In &quot;The Trisiad&quot;, the verse account of Tryse's destruction, [Sessa] was a shining beacon on the parapets, clawing dragons from the sky with sorcerous light[/quote:3pk8qpv2]
After Tryse's fall is when Sessa is captured by the consult btw.
-Akka is called Sessa in the warrior prophet's narration during his escape (I have no page number).
-Both conflict with an anasurimbor over a woman.
-Both have shifting roles, and thus people perceive them in shifting ways over time.
-Both &quot;see the truth&quot;. Even if you argue that Akka is stupid/confused when he leaves Kellhus, there is still the passage in TTT where Kellhus displays truth (himself) to Akka.
-Sessa flees, Akka leaves Kellhus' court. Both are seen as treachery. Whether either was treachery remains to be seen.

I feel there may be more, but I'm leaving things like that.

Oh, and Aspect Emperor is 20 years after the series, not 30. I've always placed Akka as late 30s to mid 40s max, he's middle aged in a nonmodern society. Even 50 would be pretty a few centuries back. I admit, I don't think it's likely, in consideration of that, that he'll actually be the hero of the series, but I continue to maintain that he's pretty much the new Seswatha, and his side is likely going to be &quot;the good side&quot;. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 07 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

+In addition, both are captured after a battle; the fall of Tryse results in Sessa's capture, while Akka is captured fighting in the library. Sessa is tortured to find out where the heron spear is. Akka is tortured about the Gnosis and about Kellhus. Neither spill the beans.

I agree with everything you stated with a couple exceptions. The first is him being tortured by the Scarlet Spires. It was only for the gnosis and not for Kellhus. Akka is like 45 or 47 if i remember correctly. Truely you made the points better than I could and I do agree with you. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 07 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Madness, Peralogue

I deeply regret my inactivity on the three-seas forums as of late. Though I've not posted in too long a time, and unfortantly must continue to do so for about another week, I have been stopping in everyday as usual just to read posts here and there. It's exciting to see activity here in the Thousandfold Thought forum, it being more frequent than usual.

Though there is much I'd like to support and rebut in the recent threads, I do not having the time at the moment. Not currently having the internet at home and only sparse breaks here at work, it's been difficult to keep up with my writing and posting.

In fact, the only reason I do post now is to rebut something anor has written and that most of you writers currently posting seem to accept as fact; something I cannot just let stand.

By the end of The Thousandfold Thought Achamian has renounced Kellhus, Esmenet, and his School. Achamian has not, ever, renounced Seswatha. Somewhere in the earlier chapters of The Thousandfold Thought Achamian refers to the late Mandate founder as his brother.

Anyhow, gotta get back to work. I hope to be back writing again soon here on the three-seas, as I've said, both to support peoples currently posting and to incite the rest of you. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 07 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

By the end of The Thousandfold Thought Achamian has renounced Kellhus, Esmenet, and his School. Achamian has not, ever, renounced Seswatha. Somewhere in the earlier chapters of The Thousandfold Thought Achamian refers to the late Mandate founder as his brother.

Anyhow, gotta get back to work. I hope to be back writing again soon here on the three-seas, as I've said, both to support peoples currently posting and to incite the rest of you.



I tend to agree with you on this one, I see no clear evidence to suggest that Akka has renounced Seswatha along with his School.
&quot;.....I renounce my School!&quot; he continued. &quot;As an assembly of hypocrites and murderers.&quot;


No where in their does it suggest that he renounces Seswatha as well. If anything the ending chapter suggests Akka has become even more like Seswatha than originally. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 08 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Holsety&quot;:1mvx48o4

Quote: &quot;anor277&quot;:1mvx48o4
Why should anyone feel that Achamian, alone of the Mandate, is specially linked to Seswatha?[/quote:1mvx48o4]He is actually referred to as Seswatha directly during his escape. I believe one of the quotes is &quot;Seswatha was free&quot; or something like that.[/quote:1mvx48o4]
That line to me was more of a metaphor; a Mandati wreaking a terrible vengeance. You've failed to point out why Achamian, alone of the Mandate, is especially linked to Seswatha. Sure, there may be parallels between he and Seswatha, but this is a different thing entirely to saying that Seswatha lives on in Achamian
[quote:1mvx48o4]Anyway, Esmenet has already stated that Seswatha’s position in the Sagas is ambiguous, a scheming manipulator in the one source and the saviour of humanity in the next.

Yes; and, specifically, a savior in the last. Moreover, as the Sagas are the view of a people as a whole, rather than an actual account of who the person actually is, Akka is already playing the role of a coward and a traitor openly by leaving Kellhus' court. The Sagas do not necessarily display that Seswatha was particularly inconstant; ...................................................
Hated or adored, Seswatha was the pin in the navigator's bowl, the true hero of The Sagas, though not one cycle or chronicle acknowledged him as such. And each time Esmenet encountered some variant of his name, she would clutch her breast and think, Achaiman
[/quote:1mvx48o4]
And Achamian has specifically denounced Seswatha as a criminal and murderer along with the rest of his school, which Seswatha founded

[quote:1mvx48o4]He manipulated Nau-Cayuti (possibly Seswatha’s only son) into a mad raid on Golgotterath and after the success of the raid (for Seswatha but not for his protégé) he (Seswatha) failed to protect him. Again, Seswatha did what he had to do but I cannot see a more or less moral person, i.e. Achamian, repeating the actions of his predecessor.

Seswatha didn't do what he had to do lightly; the desperation as he shouts at 'Nau's expression as much as his words' (rough quoting) makes it clear that he didn't want to lie to Nau. Also, Nau's death is attributed to poision, not the raid. The fact that the glossary says 'apparently' implies uncertainty, but that's a far cry from any basis that Seswatha caused Nau-Cauyuti's death.[/quote:1mvx48o4]
I didn't say that Seswatha engineered the death of Nau-Cauyuti, I said he failed to protect him. That is Seswatha got what he wanted from the raid, the Heron Spear, but he left his tools dangling, including that individual who didn’t get what he wanted from the raid. This is a common failing in heroes who achieve their purposes, their one time followers are left to clear up the shit they leave behind.

Other than lying to Nau, I know of no lies or manipulations from Seswatha. Moreover, the circumstances lead one to think he was willing to make sacrifices for a perceived to be a greater calling - would one call Abraham &quot;pragmatic&quot; since he was willing to kill Isaac?

I would call Isaac a pitiful, deluded fool provided that he was not testing God and was actually going to kill his son. As to the lies told by Seswatha, there is one other lie by ommission: the concealment of the Heron Spear. Of course Seswatha had excellent reasons to conceal it, but maybe, Nau-Cauyuti (while he lived) and his “mead brothers” could have used the Heron Spear to defend their homeland; maybe they should have had that option open to them. (I don’t know that they didn’t of course). Seswatha, in the context of the Three-Seas, no doubt did great things. Like the authors of other great things he no doubt committed many crimes.

And besides, Achaiman has done the same thing. Remember Inrau? Akka chose his mission as a mandate sorcerer over his pupil. If Seswatha did fail to protect Nau, it would only create another link between Akka and Seswatha.

The signal difference between Seswatha and Nau-Cauyuti on the hand and Achamian and Inrau on the other, is that Achamian was ordered to use Inrau as a tool and later Achamian repudiated the organization that issued the order. Seswatha, for all we know, decided himself to use N-C as a tool, and he took steps to manipulate him into so doing. That he failed to protect N-C afterwards counts against him in my book. Achamian persuaded Inrau to help him without deceiving him, in the knowledge that had he not recruited Inrau another less scrupulous Mandate member would replace him.

Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:1mvx48o4
*Agrees with Anor*
The crux of Seswatha falling out with Celomas was an affair with his wife, I believe - thus the possibility that Nau is his (Seswatha's) son.

You could draw as many, if not more, parrallels between Kellhus and Seswatha if you were so inclined (manipulator, sorcerous prodigy etc).

So, isn't that falling out yet again a parallel, with Akka and Kell conflicting over Esmi? Especially since Cel keeps his wife (presumably) and his son, and Kellhus keeps Esmi (some other post on here gave evidence that Esmi's son ain't Akka's, so forget that).[/quote:1mvx48o4]
Yes it's a parallel. Mind you was N-C’s mother a concubine or an actual wife? I could be thinking of the woman for whom N-C risked Golgotterath, who was definitely not his wife.

As far as Kellhus and Seswatha...again, see the above thing; there's very little reason to think Seswatha's manipulation is comparable to Kellhus' - manipulation is an instinct for the warrior-prophet, while Seswatha struggles over the betrayal of one person, no matter how dear. And, again, one can compare Sessa's use of Nau to Akka's use of Inrau. And as I pointed out already, the one most pointed to as a cold genius is Celo, a &quot;flint-hearted genius&quot;. Meanwhile, the respective roles of Akka and Kellhus link them to Sessa and Cel; Akka is a tutor and sorcerer while Kellhus is a military leader. Akka's sorcery is central to his characte; right now, I don't think the same can be said for Kellhus, except for his understanding of inutterals. And the Gnosis is Mandate, and an ancient sorcery, not a creation of Sessa, while the Dreams - which Kellhus does not have - are the firmest ties to Seswatha.
And yet Achamian himself said something along the lines of “what would Kellhus make of the Gnosis?”. The answer is something manifestly more than the current Mandate. In 20 years time, Kellhus’ sorcerous ability will probably not only surpass Achamian’s and Nautzera’s but even Seswatha’s; and there’s a probability he will transmit that knowledge to his own school of sorcerors, acolytes that will be bound more closely to him than say Achamian to Seswatha.

Besides we don’t know enough about the development of sorcery. Would a member of the ancient Gnostic schools be the sorcerous match of a modern Mandati? Probably, sorcery seems to be a reasonably dead endeavour; that is effective research is probably not being performed. That the Anagogic schools still lag behind those who employ the Gnosis, (a sorcery that was developed in the distant past) seems to be an indication of the sterile nature of enquiry into the sorcerous arts.


+In addition, both are captured after a battle; the fall of Tryse results in Sessa's capture, while Akka is captured fighting in the library. Sessa is tortured to find out where the heron spear is. Akka is tortured about the Gnosis and about Kellhus. Neither spill the beans.

Achamian’s ability to withstand torture was Seswatha’s legacy so that’s not really a fair comparison. Later, Achamian does spill his guts about Kellhus’ whereabouts to Cnaiur and the skin spies.
Finally, both are thought of as heroes for this; even Nautezera lauds Akka's battle and then escape with the Spires, while the Sagas describe Sessa heroically (this one is the 4th, which I didn't deign to notice, if you look at my list above).
Quote: &quot;TTT Pg 8&quot;:1mvx48o4
Yes! You did well, Achamian - well enough to be written! Immortalized in our annals! But what's this about lies?

(By the way i just realized i didn't know how to spell Akka's full name XD )
Quote: &quot;TTT Pg 172&quot;:1mvx48o4
In &quot;The Trisiad&quot;, the verse account of Tryse's destruction, [Sessa] was a shining beacon on the parapets, clawing dragons from the sky with sorcerous light[/quote:1mvx48o4]
After Tryse's fall is when Sessa is captured by the consult btw.
-Akka is called Sessa in the warrior prophet's narration during his escape (I have no page number).
-Both conflict with an anasurimbor over a woman.
-Both have shifting roles, and thus people perceive them in shifting ways over time.
-Both &quot;see the truth&quot;. Even if you argue that Akka is stupid/confused when he leaves Kellhus, there is still the passage in TTT where Kellhus displays truth (himself) to Akka.
-Sessa flees, Akka leaves Kellhus' court. Both are seen as treachery. Whether either was treachery remains to be seen.

I feel there may be more, but I'm leaving things like that.

Oh, and Aspect Emperor is 20 years after the series, not 30. I've always placed Akka as late 30s to mid 40s max, he's middle aged in a nonmodern society. Even 50 would be pretty a few centuries back. I admit, I don't think it's likely, in consideration of that, that he'll actually be the hero of the series, but I continue to maintain that he's pretty much the new Seswatha, and his side is likely going to be &quot;the good side&quot;.[/quote:1mvx48o4]

In closing, yes you’re right that there are certain parallels between the careers of Achamian and Seswatha; a case for a special connection beyond that between Seswatha and any modern Mandate member has yet to be made. It is in addition a good point you make regarding Achamian’s probable age in the Aspect Emperor; he will then be a geezer, but as a sorceror (still?) that’s not too much of a handicap.

PS @Madness, good thing you’re busy if you’re itching to take apart my arguments. Achamian may have referred to Seswatha as a brother, a brother who impassively watched the torture to madness and terrible maiming of Achamian’s dearest friend. I have not got TTT on me at them moment, but when Achamian breakes with Kellhus, what does he say? He denounces his school as criminals and murderers, and I think there is reason to agree with him. Are you saying that Achamian is excluding the Mandate founder in that accusation? Why? view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 08 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

I believe that Akka sees the Mandate as persuing the war in a overly cold manner. Was Seswatha as cold as the present Mandate? I do not believe so. Where was Seswatha as Tryse fell? He was putting his neck on the block and earning the title Chigra. I do not see enough evidence to think that Akka renounced Sewatha. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 08 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Madness, Peralogue

Nah worries, anor. Except for minor points, which we drastically differ on, I've no intention of rending your arguments upon my return. Some others, however, won't be so lucky.

Since I have a couple moments once again today before I return to work, and since I've taken a break from apartment hunting, I thought I'd just quickly respond to your postscript.

I don't think Cu'jara Cinmoi intended to portray Seswatha as a malicious entity when writing of Achamian's internment by the Scarlet Spires. I believe he wrote the passages in order to show how exactly the Mandate has safeguarded the Gnosis for two millennia. When one dreams, nigh experiences, nightly acts thousandfold more horrendous than those committed by the Scarlet Spires and knows that even then the Gnosis was not surrendered, how can a Mandati of the current era relinquish their sorcery? As we learn through Achamian's narrative, the Scarlet Spires are mere understudies to the Consult.

As to your question, I do believe that Achamian renounces his School and the Quorum but not it's founder. Once again, as Cu'jara Cinmoi makes quite clear in The Darkness That Comes Before, the Quorums following Seswatha have twisted and skewed the Mandate's goal. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 08 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

Good luck with your hunting. I look forward to yours and Anors input. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 08 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Madness&quot;:35jzb3us
Nah worries, anor. Except for minor points, which we drastically differ on, I've no intention of rending your arguments upon my return. Some others, however, won't be so lucky.

Since I have a couple moments once again today before I return to work, and since I've taken a break from apartment hunting, I thought I'd just quickly respond to your postscript.

......................................................................................................................................................................................................................

As to your question, I do believe that Achamian renounces his School and the Quorum but not it's founder. Once again, as Cu'jara Cinmoi makes quite clear in The Darkness That Comes Before, the Quorums following Seswatha have twisted and skewed the Mandate's goal.[/quote:35jzb3us]

@Madness, I am glad we can disagree amicably - now if this was a politics forum we’d now be having our seconds wait upon each other. Anyway, I find it hard to divorce Seswatha from the Mandate, and from Achamian’s denunciation of the latter. The school was his instrument and he went to extraordinary lengths (apparently) so that it remained true to its original mission. And I feel the Mandate has remained faithful to that mission; it has always looked towards the re-emergence of the Consult, to the point of being a laughing stock in the Modern Three-Seas. The personal ambitions and feuds and infighting that seem to mark the other schools (bar the Cishaurim) do seem to be largely absent from the Mandate. Even Achamian said as much; when you dream the same series dreams every night and witness the same terrible scenes, personal ambitions tend to pale in comparison.

The modern school engages in kidnapping, espionage, murder, and must forcefully appropriate all of its resources from a subject population. And this was the institution that Seswatha founded. Of course, in this respect, it is no different from the other schools who must engage in the same thing, but if you damn the Mandate (and they are reasonably damnable) I feel you also point the finger of blame towards the Mandate founder. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 08 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Anyway, I find it hard to divorce Seswatha from the Mandate, and from Achamian’s denunciation of the latter. The school was his instrument and he went to extraordinary lengths (apparently) so that it remained true to its original mission. And I feel the Mandate has remained faithful to that mission; it has always looked towards the re-emergence of the Consult, to the point of being a laughing stock in the Modern Three-Seas. The personal ambitions and feuds and infighting that seem to mark the other schools (bar the Cishaurim) do seem to be largely absent from the Mandate. Even Achamian said as much; when you dream the same series dreams every night and witness the same terrible scenes, personal ambitions tend to pale in comparison.

The modern school engages in kidnapping, espionage, murder, and must forcefully appropriate all of its resources from a subject population. And this was the institution that Seswatha founded. Of course, in this respect, it is no different from the other schools who must engage in the same thing, but if you damn the Mandate (and they are reasonably damnable) I feel you also point the finger of blame towards the Mandate founder.



Yes but we have no idea how the Mandate has changed over time methods and behavior wise. Look at how they have treated the Anasurimbor prophecy, they go about it as though Kellhus could be manipulated and would rather use him as a tool than a person, something I do not believe Seswatha wanted to happen. So yes perhaps they have remained faithful to the mission but how they go about it now compared to originally is up for debate. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 14 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Madness, Peralogue

It's been too long since I've had opportunity to sit at my desk in the comfort of my home and post alongside the rest of you Three Seas fanatics. Aside from the two posts above, I've posted almost nothing in about three weeks time. My first instinct then, as I love to write and love debating the issues within Cû'jara Cinmoi's world, is to find all the posts that I've read over the past weeks that incited me and respond. However, my ambition is reined by the fact I've been feeling sick and my doctor's informed me I may have strep throat; therefore, my mind is feeling somewhat mushy and inconsistent.

Regardless, I woke this afternoon, as I've been lazing around with my girlfriend's cat, Ferris, for much of the day, and decided that I wanted to attempt responding to this thread, at the very least. Whether or not these writings will find themselves posted is yet to be seen but I am going to attempt it; I'd found my mind drifting to Holsety's words on The Sagas and the First Apocalypse following waking and moving to my couch.

I guess I've no eloquent way of beginning here so I shall dive right in.

Holsety, I agree with you thousandfold that the glimpse into The Sagas that Cû'jara Cinmoi has allowed us to experience will prove a foreshadowing of what is to come for the characters we've come to know throughout the Prince of Nothing story. I admit and agree that there are comparisons to be drawn between the characters you've mentioned. However, I like neither the way you've presented these comparisons nor your overall argument.

As I said I believe The Sagas will prove a foreshadowing, as you've decided to present proof of. More so, I believe the dreams of Mandati provide closer points for comparison. Basically, as I've written elsewhere, I believe that Achamian will prove to be Seswatha, Kellhus - Celmomas II, and Esmenet's unborn child - Nau-Cayûti.

The main reason that I disagree with your arguments surrounding The Sagas as foreshadowing is that I believe you are missing entirely one side with which to compare. Again, as I've written elsewhere, the story Cû'jara Cinmoi has set out to tell will truly begin only when we've opened those crisp new pages of the first book of The Aspect-Emperor and immersed ourselves into Eärwa anew. While The Prince of Nothing was more indepth and harrowing than any fantasy I've had the pleasure of experiencing we know that Mr. Bakker wrote only to provide us, the readers, with a bottomless and realistic history with which we can enjoy a more full experience of the Second Apocalypse. Only then will we experience and understand the comparisions as Cû'jara Cinmoi intended.

That said the only way I can now provide validity to any claim of comparision specifically my own is to explain myself.

While I agree with anor that Seswatha is not specifically linked to Achamian over any other Mandate Schoolman, I do believe that by complete randomness, by being at the place at the time, so to speak, and by just being Achamian, he will prove to be the Mandati who assumes Seswatha's position throughout the Second Apocalypse.

I cannot stress enough the essence of humanity I feel Mr. Bakker conveys within his novels. All his characters, aside from the obvious nonhuman ones, no matter how extreme their characteristics, are just human in another time and place.

I, unlike what seems to be the majority of posters, don't believe that Seswatha was a decisive manipulator or ultimately despised in his time. I picture a man not too unlike Achamian, an emotional man, raised as a suthenti until his own journey to join a School. He was also intelligent as the stories surrounding his life attest. Likely, regardless of the truth surrounding Nau-Cayûti's parentage, Seswatha loved as fiercely as any human in our own history as his historical story, no matter how biased, would contain some truth concerning Sharal's and his relationship.

Unfortantly, as Achamian is just the man at the time at the place, it was Seswatha whom Nil'giccas delivered his warning to. I, unlike anor, don't believe Seswatha used Nau-Cayûti maliciously; Seswatha fought for the very lives and loves of a world, peoples unborn, so they might experience a life without fear. As we don't have a firsthand account of the events following Seswatha and Nau-Cayûti's escape from Golgotterath, as we do of their journey in, we cannot assume that Seswatha failed to protect his student. The pain, emotional and physical, that Seswatha would have experienced throughout the entirety of the Apocalypse is beyond imagination; he sacrificed more than any, having to know his name may become hated due to his actions.

As for Kellhus and Celmomas II, and Esmenet's unborn child and Nau-Cayûti, there is little real comparision that we can write until having read The Aspect-Emperor books. Even the comparisions I draw are in relation to Achamian and their future selves.

In the opening pages of The Aspect-Emperor, Kellhus will be fifty-five years old himself. As well, though I'm one of the few who do believe this, I believe at the end of The Thousandfold Thought Kellhus has become deluged with emotion, something I believe will, sadly, lead to less cool calculating manipulation on his part. After twenty more years of becoming accustomed to emotion, I believe we will experience a very different Kellhus, though someone still exceptional due to his Dûnyain heritage. I'll not, again, reiterate my arguments for Achamian journeying to Ishterebinth in the intervening years between books; I only mention it because somehow Achamian will need to surpass Kellhus's own sorcerous abilities in order to be included in the books. A possible plot comparision in itself is that Achamian returns to Anasûrimbor Kellhus's court bearing warnings of doom from the north. Kellhus may even ask Achamian to teach his &quot;son's&quot;, Möenghus and his sibling.

I'm going to end this with the overall comparisions of parentage and relationships. I'd like to add that I'm sorry if this post has lost some articulation or elaboration nearing it's end. My girlfriend arrived at the apartment not to long ago and though she stands my nerdiness to a point she's leaving to her friend's cottage for a week; I guess I really should be paying a little more attention to her right now <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->. Not that I'll blame my lack of elaboration entirely on her annoying me as my sore throat and the tylenol are mucking my head.

To finish:

Though anor has expressed doubts concerning my argument, I believe that the scene nearing the end of The Thousandfold Thought involving Esmenet and Achamian's reunion is too intentional on Cû'jara Cinmoi's part not to at least instill some doubt concerning Esmenet's child's father. anor's argument is a good one stating that Kellhus and Esmenet started coupling far too early for there to be much doubt, however, the fact that Mr. Bakker wrote the following quote after Achamian and Esmenet's coupling is too implicative in my opinion. Though, again, overall I agree with anor concerning this, I have to believe that Cû'jara Cinmoi wrote it to continue blurring the truth and allow for closer parallels of the First and Second Apocalypses; though I don't share U-Boat's fear that they will mirror eachother. Cû'jara Cinmoi is too devious for that.

He watched her find her feet, saw the crescent of her belly. She was showing ... How could he not have seen that before?
view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 14 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

Tiddly tee.

Much of the debate here lately centres around the premise of this thread. That the second apocolypse will mirror the first and specifically that Seswatha is the pivot of events and as such will be present in some form during the second.

I made the point elsewhere that parallels could be drawn between Kellhus and Seswatha as easily as with Akka. It was quickly argued that Akka and Seswatha are more similar and to this I concede; however the thrust of my point is that it is a basic trait of human intelligence to drawn connections between people and events. The wise person exercises caution when doing so, or ends up with superstition instead of science.

It is an admittedly oft used plot device in Epic Fantasy to use Prophecy, Heroes Re-incarnate, Manifest Destiny etc to resolve epic conflicts between good and evil; and these devices are usually hinted at if not spelt out as the story develops. In this series it is not so, Bakker introduces many standard archetypes then procedes to tear them apart. Witness Cnair, the indefatigable barbarian who lives by his people's savage code of nobility; Akka, the wise magician entrusted with knowledge and power to stop a forgotten evil; Esmenet, the hooker with the heart of gold. All these characters are standard fodder in genre fiction, but defy their archetypes. The Celomanian prophecy, make of it what you will, is presented early in standard type - but it means little or nothing in the context of the PoN. In a 'normal' genre fantasy Kellhus would have been the simple village boy who discovered the magic sword, his heritage and a nation waiting on his return....

The first apocolypse is passed, its history is just that and the antagonists involved are largely gone and done with (on the side of niceness that is). Was it not Seswatha's role to rally humanity and providing arcane support to its rulers? Done and taken care of, and not by the mandate or Akka. The second apocolypse is a different kettle of fish, and the sagas and the Mandate are Seswatha's legacy and a tool that may used against the consult, but a history of the first world war (the war to end all wars) could not save us from the second...

PoN was the first installment of the story of the second apocolypse, the story has truly begun already - PoN is a foreshadowing of the rest of the story, the sagas are flavouring.

If things pan out as Madness suggests, with Akka and Esmenet's child off on a quest to recover the heron spear, I won't just be disapointed, I'll eat my hat! Bugger the Seswatha = Akka arguement, let's move on to the Bakker = Eddings arguement. They're both authors, both have written multi-volume, ground-breaking fantasy series....
OMG!!!! <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->

(apologies to Mr Bakker) view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 14 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

Curethan I am outraged that you would compare Bakker to Eddings. On March 16th the one year from Bakker's last post here I will burn you as a heretic. As I have always said heretics are so flammable. Madness you maybe right Akka may not be the only one to mirror Seswatha. I believe Seswatha's intent was to have many that mirrored him. The reason being to have a force that would be able to combat the Consult toe to toe. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 14 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Madness, Peralogue

As seems to be the usual as of late, I'll not be able to write much of a post at this moment. Neither will I be able to return for much of one tonight after work; as I've written my girlfriend is leaving tommorow for the cottage, and so tonight is my last opportunity to see her. However, I'm hoping that for the rest of the week, I'll be able to bunker down for some writting, following my shifts.

I've taken this opportunity on break once again today to respond quickly to a misconception of my writing. While I don't have much time, I hope I can quash this misinterpretation and allow for a more broad debate of The Aspect-Emperor.

Curethan, I took the time this morning before work to read over both my post and your own, following my initial read of yours. I've no idea really how you've interpreted my writing into a belief that the First Apocalypse will mirror the Second; this could not be any farther from my intent.

I do believe that Cu'jara Cinmoi has written the dreams and The Sagas with the intent of parallels. However, I don't in anyway believe that events will unfold as they did two thousand years prior to The Prince of Nothing.

The Heron Spear is either destroyed or in the hands of the Consult; the Scylvendi could not have kept such a weapon, else it would have been used in the past thousand years. Celmomas II was not a Dunyain nor was he an Aspect-Emperor, if Kellhus's new title proves to have support.

Furthermore, as I must depart and get back to the mundane job of edging shelves and such, I do not support any claim that Seswatha will return. I believe he is dead, though not buried as his heart is used in certain ritual initiations. His spirit may indeed be around, however, I'm more of a believer that Kellhus hypnotized Achamian and removed psychological Mandate blockings regarding the Gnosis. As well, I agree with anor that any reference to Seswatha possessing Achamian is purely metaphor regarding the use of sorcerous power.

Anyhow, I'm sorry to cut it short as I'd love to continue. I'll post again as I can. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 15 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

@ Madness. It's not really a misconception of your writing, my friend. My inference is drawn from what I see as the broad theme of this thread; speculation that the characters from PoN have been shaped to be new versions of the characters from the sagas and the Mandati dreams - i.e. Achamain is the new Seswatha, Kellhus fills Cellomas II's role etc leading to the conclusion that the events of the 2nd apocolypse will mirror the first (or why bother to fill the roles of the same daramatis personae?) Thus my inference from your suggestion of Akka, Kellhus &amp; the unborn child in those roles - I do apologise for leaping to that conclusion... (I also sprained my metaphorical ankle doing it)

Your post specifically supports that the sagas are a foreshadowing and you support the arguement that the characters of PoN are in effect filling these roles. The way the sagas etc are used in PoN are, to me, tools whereby the character's can compare themselves and their situations to those of the past, assuaging the fear, impotence and loneliness that they would other feel. They are a neccasary tool of exposition to develop and move the story along. As I tried to point out, I believe way too much signifigance is being attatched to the parralels and similarities therein vis a vis speculation on the events of AE. (and some of my attempts at demonstrative examples <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> - I have a sad tendency to take other's points to ridiculous extremes to demonstrate their flaws... I forget what that argumentative tool is called, but it often backfires)

All that said, it did start me wondering about the heron spear and how anyone is gunna kick the No-god's butt if they don't find it or stop him from being revived. I'm starting to worry that I may have to eat my hat after all <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->

@ Harrol. As l am a damp squib you may need to provide accelerant. You do realise tho, as a moderator, that after conducting my public burning you will need to ban urself for flaming (or will it be me who's flaming?) <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> That said the charges are fair and I accept ur judgement (if u can catch me, U do realise I ride a kangaroo.... heehee). Hang on, there's some Edding's acolytes at the door... view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 15 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

Trust me you are most flammable. All heretics are. Unless Sovin or Will come along and say differently in my judgement you would be the one flamming <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: --> . view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 15 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

Pffft. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 15 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Harrol&quot;:99cnyq4b
Curethan I am outraged that you would compare Bakker to Eddings. On March 16th the one year from Bakker's last post here I will burn you as a heretic. As I have always said heretics are so flammable. Madness you maybe right Akka may not be the only one to mirror Seswatha. I believe Seswatha's intent was to have many that mirrored him. The reason being to have a force that would be able to combat the Consult toe to toe.[/quote:99cnyq4b]


Agreed on that outrageous Bakker/eddings comparison. I wouldn't read Eddings to my 5-year old. Begs the question as to why I've read that stuff. The Edddings comparison is a bit more poisonous here because most of Eddings novels were the one theme, the one story going on and on and on again like a broken vinyl record age after aeon - and eddings himslef acknowledged that. Given Scott's record, I don't think any historical parallels between the Apocalypse and events the Modern Three-Seas will be so heavy-handed.


Just regarding the Heron-Spear, I will be a bit unhappy if it makes a reappearance; even in Bakker's hands it would too much of a fantasy cliche (I am often mistaken of course). As we know the Scylvendi took the Heron Spear in the sack of Cenei (1500-1000 years ago). As was remarked it is even possible that it's now in the Consult's hands. Besides it is a high technology device - if it sits for a year it will deteriorate; if it is sits for 2000 years it will be a useless crystal pile. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 16 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

Lol. You people are amusing. Let me spell it out for you. The comparison was intended to be outrageous, demonstrating that the theme of repeating past events in a new narrative is well below what we should expect from AE. By stretching the ideas presented by others that the character's in PoN are being developed to take on the roles of historical figures in the sagas I took that to the conclusion that the events of the past will also be repeated... (or why bother resurrecting ancient heroes in this way?)

Which I DON&quot;T agree with.

Eddings is a writer who has taken this fantasy cliche to its mind-numbing nadir, thus my comparison was designed to illustrate how unlikely I think this to be. Deliberate irony, people.

To sum up my arguement in simple points.

1. Yes, there are distinct similarities between the characters in PoN and individuals how opposed the consult during the 1st apocolypse. As far as so &amp; so being the new such &amp; such, this means nothing.

2. Bakker has and will continue to use familiar fantasy cliches such as prophecy and destiny before tearing them into new shapes, with the intended result of confounding the archetypes perpetrated within the genre (by authors such as Eddings) to make something fresh.

3. Speculation based on ignoring the above points and suggesting that the plot of AE is foreshadowed by the sagas seems whimsical at best.

P.S. I'm still not on fire (yes, it's March 16 - in the evening). Your moderator-jitsu is weak, Harrol. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 16 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

Well it is the morning of the 16th and in honor of the one year anniversary since Scott last posted I will burn a heretic. Oh look I found Curethan and he is picking up brite shinny objects off the ground and putting them into his mouth. <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> Wow he really is an Eddings fan. We will just put a trail of pennies on the ground to lead him to the burn site..... Ah Ha he is follwing the trail! Perfect all I need to do is light a match and let the fun begin Phoossh...... The thing about heretics is that they do not burn for long. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 18 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

Well, that isn't quite how it happened, is it.

There I was, arseing about in the forums, ingesting the pearls of wisdom I found there when I noticed Harrol, resplendent in his tall crown made of discarded bus tickets (he keeps the tickets on himself with the ego-glue secreted by his diseased mind).

He was throwing money around and cackling, which made me quite curious. I moved closer to see what he was doing. As I approached, he began screaming some nonsense about heretics, turned and dropped his pants before raising a match before his buttocks. I managed to use my wizard powers to teleport to a safe distance beyond his myopic gaze just before a massive gout of flame errupted from him. That's some super-power u got there mate! Anyway, there must have been some kind of follow through, because he seemed quite satisfied with the greasy stain of ash he left.... view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 19 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Harrol, Moderator

<!-- s:evil: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_evil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil or Very Mad" /><!-- s:evil: --> foiled again! I will have my revenge Curethan. view post


The Sagas as Foreshadowing? posted 19 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

<!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> I'm sure you will...
Just remember to serve it cold please, hehe. view post


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