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The No-God posted 23 June 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by anor277, Didact

I thought this was the appropriate section for this question, rather than the option of asking the author (and cheating?). In TWP we learn a little more of the No-God, an absolutely chilling entity, raised or summoned by the Consult and loosed upon men and non-men alike. Interestingly, the No-God possesses mortal worshippers, the Sranc and the Scylvendi. So to my question, how does the No-God attract such mortal worship; he possesses none of the usual attributes, love, forgiveness etc. and his appearance in the world was marked by widespread infant still-birth. The No-God could certainly not offer his worshippers fecundity (maybe the Inchoroi didn’t need conventional modes of reproduction). Did the Scylvendi worship the No-God to gain prowess in war in return? Ideas welcome. view post


The No-God posted 24 June 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by LooseCannon, Peralogue

The Sranc are some sort of race bred by the Inchoroi are they not? Regardless I think they are an offshoot of the No-God in one form or another so that would be a no-brainer.

As for the Scylvendi I have no idea. I would imagine it would be through a crapload of lies and manipulation on the Consult's part as the Scylvendi's seem to be easily manipulated (aside from Cnaiur of course). It is interesting to think who the Scylvendi worshipped before the No-God.

By the way, I just loved the description of that battle with the No-God and the umbilical reaching up to the sky. There's been so many evil gods in fanasy books and so few are written convincingly. The No-God, so far, as been great. Less is more as certain beer companies like to say.

P.S. Anyone have any ideas on what exactly this Heron Spear is? Just a regular piece of wood with a metal tip? Or is the "Spear" metaphoric? view post


The No-God posted 30 June 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by anor277, Didact

@Loose, you're right, the Sranc are artefacts (rather unspeakable ones!) bred by the Inchoroi. As you point out, the Scylvendi are manipulable and this mortal race somewhy pledged their worship to the No-God. (Maybe it was a case of, "We Scylvendi are so hard that we worship a monstrous demon"). As regards the Heron Spear (a gigawatt laser?) I have no idea. Achamian said it was lost when the Scylvendi sacked Cenei (after the No-God's fall obviously). I agree that the No-god is a highly original creation. view post


The No-God posted 30 June 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I see what you are saying about the Sranc and Inchoroi, but it still has never made sense to me why evil creatures serve out of loyalty. I think it is purely because the Sranc thrive on violence and the No-God offers them an organized way to go about it.

As for the Scylvendi, I believe it says that they fought for the No-God, but am not entirely sure. This being the case, it could be that they were looking for a war in which they could, like the Sranc, let loose their blood frenzy. Or, they may at the time not been the Scylvendi, but a collection of tribes peoples who were repressed by the civilized world. The No-God offered them a chance at vengeance and power. They may have only identified themselves as a group after the apocalypse. view post


The No-God posted 30 June 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Damaen, Candidate

The Sranc are some sort of race bred by the Inchoroi are they not? Regardless I think they are an offshoot of the No-God in one form or another so that would be a no-brainer.


offshoot = related, albiet distantly? That would make me cry. If Scott is such a tolkien fan its more likely No-God = Sauron. To me this means "evil all powerful god-man who was beaten in the past but for some reason is undefeatable now." Following this line th eNo-God will loom in the distance but never pose any real threat. I prefer to think of the no-god as a seperate race/power all together. My hopes is that mr. Bakker dosent pull the Tolkien ending. i hate those books. Sauron gets ring, comes back, defeated by king, who melts ring. All the hobbits die.

In closing: I hope is different and scary, that the No-God returns, is defeated, and that lots and LOTS of hobbits die. view post


The No-God posted 30 June 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by anor277, Didact

@Sovin, as far as we know the Sranc (and the skin-spies) were bred to specifications. From memory one of the skin spies anticipated a world where no wombs quicken and all hopes wither - I don't think it's such a long stretch to expect absolute loyalty from them towards the No-god.

RE the Scylvendi I think it's reasonably certain that they fought for the No-god before (and after) the 1st apocalypse. In the epic fight between Cnaiür and Sarcellus, Sarcellus says to the Scylvendi, "you and I worship the same god". Interestingly there is an indication that the Scylvendi declared war on humanity at large (the Norsirai at least) after the Norsirai killed their god.

Off topic, I don't think the No-god is anything like Sauron, the Dark Lord is not nearly as frightening. view post


The No-God posted 01 July 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

But the behavior of the Sranc seems too chaotic to really be following out of loyalty. The upper echelons of servants would be more involved, and therefore care more. view post


The No-God posted 03 July 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by LooseCannon, Peralogue

At the end of TWP we see some sort of command structure that we didn't know existed in the northern waste lands. That big ass demon dude (sorry, the book isn't near me at the moment) and then the Nonmen on their horses basically herding the Sranc. I would wager the Sranc are pretty much mindless beasts bred for the single purpose of overwhelming and then overrunning more organized armies of humans. view post


The No-God posted 04 July 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Carnifex, Commoner

An addendum to my post above:
The Scylvendi consider the No-God to be dead. He lost the War, evidently. Why would the People of War rally to the banner of a loser, a dead man? His time is finished. view post


The No-God posted 04 July 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by saintjon, Auditor

Can't really say Cnaiur speaks for the Scylvendi as a whole seeing as he's the one who was taught to question tradition.

Also, the way Kellhus explains them, I can easily see the Scylvendi worshipping Mog-Pharau. After all, they are all about actions, and the swazond show you carry the weight of the momentum you stopped when you killed the man. as Kellhus says "to them he (Cnaiur) is the pebble that has become an avalanche" as the reason the Scylvendi held him high (although they snickered at his back at his back the whole time). Well imagine how much of this momentum the No-God, who destroyed the armies of Kuniuri at Golgotterath and other nations besides, would have. If actions are what matters to the Scylvendi that says that impact matters to them, and what could you possibly attribute more impact to than a god who slays nations? view post


The No-God posted 05 July 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

But it is true, as Carnifex said (welcome to the board!), that the fact of Mog-Pharou losing may count for more. My impression is that when a warrior dies, no matter how many swazond, they are as nothing, becuase they lost. view post


The No-God posted 06 July 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by saintjon, Auditor

Yeah you guys plead a good case. I wonder if there are enough Scylvendi left for it to make a difference though whether they worship him now or not. view post


The No-God posted 08 July 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by anor277, Didact

Just two points arising from a re-read of TDTCB (amazingly clearer now after TWP).

1. Cnaiür says unequivocally that the Scylvendi worshipped the Tusk before the No-God's arrival (they called him the Lokung).

2. He says that his chorae was a gift (generations ago) from the No-God. This makes a bit of sense in that the Inchoroi seem to be a less magically competent than the Non-men or the Gnostic schools; the "tears of god" may have been an invention to even things out. view post


The No-God posted 15 July 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by saintjon, Auditor

The creepiest No-God moment in TWP was when Kellhus saw him hanging from that circle. Suppose the Dunyain are diametrically opposed to what the No-God embodies. The Logos brings Kellhus to certainty when it's working it's magic in him. The No-God, with the constant questions about what others see, the demand to know, seems to imply that uncertainty is a big thing with... whatever the No-God is supposed to be.

I think that since hanging there tied to a corpse kellhus cared about was his most uncertain moment in the book the re-assertion of the suppressed animal (he lost control of his face and wept!) in him opened him up to some awareness of Mog-Pharau maybe? My best guess is that Mog-Pharau therefore is an embodiment of disharmony between the animal and the the intellect (hands folded like a monk, legs hunched like a beast) and that the Dunyain might do better to harmonize the animal and the intellect instead of trying to suppress the one with the other.

Is the No-God also the Darkness that Comes Before? The fear that springs up in the trackless waste between people, driving them to live like they're living an endless conflict? view post


The No-God posted 13 August 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by steve, Peralogue

Just wanted to say that Mog-Pharu is a cool sounding name. view post


The No-God posted 13 August 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by anor277, Didact

The No God also had other evocative names, "Tsurumah" (spelling?) as named by the Non-Men; the "Lokung" (Scylvendi) as well as "Mog-Pharau" from which corruption to the No-God is implied. Actually, given British slang, when the Mandate are always held to be prating about the return of Mog, I thought of a pet cat (a mog or a moggie) coming home for his dinner. view post


The No-God posted 14 August 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by legatus, Auditor

I'm partial to the Scylvendi name myself, since it kind of reminds me of the dead god Lorkhan from the Elder Scrolls game series. It makes me wonder whether Scott and the writers at Bethesda drew on a common real world mythological figure for their respective dead gods. view post


The No-God posted 14 August 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by steve, Peralogue

I guess I haven't gotten to the other names yet. All of them sound cool though. view post


The No-God posted 27 August 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Carnifex, Commoner

Quote: "saintjon":21uoc6zb
The creepiest No-God moment in TWP was when Kellhus saw him hanging from that circle. Suppose the Dunyain are diametrically opposed to what the No-God embodies. The Logos brings Kellhus to certainty when it's working it's magic in him. The No-God, with the constant questions about what others see, the demand to know, seems to imply that uncertainty is a big thing with... whatever the No-God is supposed to be.

[/quote:21uoc6zb]
This is a great point. I'm no philosophy major, but...
The Dunyain, before all other things, know themselves. They know how to think, how to look, how to move precisely as they wish.

The No-God, judging from the passages in TWP, does _not_ know himself. He can't even see his external form, much less the world inside himself.

Is this an intentional opposition? I would think so. view post


The No-God posted 02 October 2004 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Ssalamanderr, Commoner

The No-God, judging from the passages in TWP, does _not_ know himself. He can't even see his external form, much less the world inside himself.


This would also explain why he speaks through the mouths of the Sranc (which is really creepy by the way). view post


The No-God posted 03 February 2005 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by RevCasy, Candidate

I don't think the No-God represents the animal, or the body, or the carnal, as Satan does in Christian mythology.

Mr. Bakker's theme doesn't seem to be that the animal is evil and the intellect is good. Rather, I think I detect the idea that self-awareness and *intergration* of the animal and the intellect is (like the Buddah's middle path) the best way. And this seems very sensible to me.

Thus, the No-God would represent the *negation* of the animal (which urge is, after all, life and reproduction), and simultaneously the *negation* of the intellect (which finds no reason in nihilism and death). In short, the No-God is the negation of the human, of both our natures.

Can there be any more profound definition of evil? view post


The No-God posted 31 August 2005 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Mithfânion, Didact

I still have no real idea what the No God is. How did he arise in the first place? What sort of being is he? Did the Inchoroi create him and did The Great Ruiner only become their master afterwards, or was he ever their master?

Achamian mentions that the renewed use of the Tekne indicates the nearnness of his return. So that is what is being used now, but was the Tekne used to bring him about in the beginning as well, or are they only doing that because they had salvaged his remains back at the Plains of Mengedda (which Akka confirms) at the end of the First Apocalypse. view post


The No-God posted 07 December 2005 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Artful, Candidate

All you have to do is look at at history to find plenty of examples of gods being worshipped out of fear. Look at how many cultures had human sacrifices, blood rituals, etc.

One good example is Baal, though how much of his bad rep is Jewish propaganda after the fact is unclear.

As for the Scylvendi, don't look any farther than the Mongols. Their Golden Horde left pyramids of skulls in their wake. They reduced the population of the entire earth by a measureable fraction. The Europeans called them 'Tartars' after Tartarus, the Greek hell. They were posed to sack the major countries of europe, and were only stopped by the death of Genghis Khan, which left a power vacuum. view post


The No-God posted 29 June 2008 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Almighty Tallest, Candidate

The Scylvendi are the People of War.

Like most things in the series, you have to take this statement to the horrifying literal truth. They are not barbarians in that they enjoy in killing and destroying their enemies. They call their raids against the Nansur 'Worship'. The Scylvendi see war as something that is as necessary as you or I see breathing. It is inevitable, and it is sacred.

So when the No-God arrives, you also have to see this as the Scylvendi would see it. You have to understand that Mog-Pharau is not a divine being that controls destruction and war. He is the divine physical manifestation of nothing. So where the Sea-God would manifest as ocean waves and dolphins, the No-God manifests as just that: nothing. Remember, for eleven years after his arrival every child was stillborn. That wasn't because of Mog-Pharau being in Earwa. That was Mog-Pharau.

How could a people like the Scylvendi, a people who worship War as a divine thing, not see Mog-Pharau as the perfect manifestation of their own beliefs? view post


The No-God posted 16 July 2008 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by anor277, Didact

Quote: "Almighty Tallest":1x2g0u0i
.........................
So when the No-God arrives, you also have to see this as the Scylvendi would see it. You have to understand that Mog-Pharau is not a divine being that controls destruction and war. He is the divine physical manifestation of nothing. So where the Sea-God would manifest as ocean waves and dolphins, the No-God manifests as just that: nothing. Remember, for eleven years after his arrival every child was stillborn. That wasn't because of Mog-Pharau being in Earwa. That was Mog-Pharau.

How could a people like the Scylvendi, a people who worship War as a divine thing, not see Mog-Pharau as the perfect manifestation of their own beliefs?[/quote:1x2g0u0i]

But can you imagine the reaction of Cnaiur's equivalent at the time upon being presented with his 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th,..dead baby from his wife/slave/rape victim? If the Scylvendi actually suffered the still-birth plague along with the rest of the Three-Seas, it should have provoked a major religious rethink. view post


The No-God posted 17 July 2008 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

The anima is the religious equivilent of the onto, the soul if you will. If the Scylvendi saw that the stillborn children's animae were being directly to the bosom of their god, then perhaps that could be counted as some kind of blessing?

I recall that the no-god has some kind of apprecition/appetite for the souls of men (i think Mekeritig says something to Seswatha-on-the-wall about how the no-god ?ate? the soul of one of the great kings and was not impressed.) - perhaps this is what caused the womb-plague amongst men. Not sure how the inchoroi did it to the Non-men, but it was a similar master-stroke in their first rising. view post


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