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Who was Kellus talking to? posted 13 December 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

Quote: "Incu-Pacifico":j4rglmgd
TTT, Shimeh, page 289-290:
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"I know you can hear me", he said to the world, dark and sacred. "I know that you listen."

"What was I to do?" he replied. "They attend only to what lies before their eyes. They listen only to what pleases their ears. Things unseen, things unheard...they trust to you."


"What was I to do? Tell them the truth?"


----

Anyone care to speculate on what happened during this "exchange"? Who was Kellus talking to? What is this truth he speaks of?[/quote:j4rglmgd] view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 13 December 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

judging by that first sentence ("...he said to the world..."), i imagine that he was speaking to no one and/or himself. coversing with his conscience. -shrugs-

i can;t remember the specific part of the book at the moment so i cannot be sure. view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 13 December 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

Why, the god(s) of course. Ever present, watching, "listening;" he was defending his choices to those who dare to judge. view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 14 December 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

Quote: "Mahajanga Mordecai":2g3a4tox
Why, the god(s) of course. Ever present, watching, "listening;" he was defending his choices to those who dare to judge.[/quote:2g3a4tox]

I think he was speaking to the No-God. There's something about the No-God that the bastard Bakker isn't telling us. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Oh and sorry about the double post. I meant to merely correct some spelling, but somehow the &quot;edit&quot; became a new post. Doh! view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 14 December 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Harrol, Moderator

I also thought he was speaking to the gods/God. It appeared he was trying to justify himself to some higher power. My only doubt about the No-God being the one he adresses is the fact that the No-God would not care. view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 16 December 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Harrol&quot;:39fsh0ny
I also thought he was speaking to the gods/God. It appeared he was trying to justify himself to some higher power. My only doubt about the No-God being the one he adresses is the fact that the No-God would not care.[/quote:39fsh0ny]

I misspoke. I meant to say the God. ( Or rather, I think he believes it was The God). I remember him telling Moe that the God speaks to him.

As for who it really was? I can't quite rule out our buddy, Mog P. view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 16 January 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Ulyaoth, Commoner

I think it is probable to rule out the No-God. In Kellhus' monologue he states that they &quot;listen to what pleases their ears. Things unseen, things unheard, they trust to you.&quot; The Three Seas does not trust the No-God, as far as I know, which would imply that he converses with one they do serve. I've always been curious as to the hierarchy of the Gods themselves, and I've wondered as to whether or not the &quot;God-That-Is-Solitary&quot; is the true and ruling God whereas the others are contrivances or underlings to this one. But I digress. Whomever Kellhus is speaking to is decidedly not the No-God, the thing depicted in this scene of Kellhus's monologue was something that obviously had a sense of morality, as Kellhus felt he had to justify his actions to him/her/it. view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 05 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Alpha Crow, Candidate

Doesn't he tell Moenghus that the No-God speaks to him? I don't think he meant just the dreams, though it is possible with the last one changing.. view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 25 June 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Nerdanel, Peralogue

I think Kellhus is speaking to the No-God. It's possible that Kellhus thinks he's talking to the &quot;real&quot; God.

Let's take a look at the details of the scene.

Kellhus stops at a stand of dead trees. Living and dead trees are a repeating religion-related motif in the series. The discussion goes behind the scope of this post, but I think a dead tree represents the No-God.

He faces away from the Nail of Heaven. Inri Sejenus is reputed to have risen to the Nail of Heaven, so Kellhus faces to the opposite direction from Sejenus's heaven. We haven't had a detailed treatise of Eärwan astronomy, but I think it's highly likely from an aesthetic viewpoint that while there's an extremely bright pole star in the north, the stars circle a black emptiness in the south. (I've been thinking that the name No-God - known to be a translation - would be better translated as &quot;the Anti-God&quot;. I also think that's the spoilerish name of the third series.)

Kellhus speaks. The answer seems to come in the form of a sourceless wind. The No-God has been able to make wind in the past, as exemplified by his tornado. Also, the description of the branches against the constellations is reminiscent of Kellhus's dream on the Circumfix.

Kellhus responds. The answer seems to come in the faint noises made by maggots and termites, feeders on death. I don't see an explicit connection to the No-God here, but this scene has quite an emphasis on death.

Kellhus responds. The answer seems to come in the form of a twig in his sandal. The twig has a green leaf and a brown one. Kellhus is enlightened by this and realizes that not all paths are equal. Now, the question is, which leaf did Kellhus choose and why?

On this board and elsewhere, the assumption seems to be that Kellhus chose the green leaf, since that's what any of us would do. However, since Kellhus is not like any of us, the choice is not that simple, particularly with all the death imagery extant in the scene. I think he may well have chosen to brown leaf, possibly in connection with his decision to kill his father. A dead tree is a tree that is stable and will not grow unexpected branches. Kellhus has changed, but I think his Dûnyain desire to control everything shows every sign of still being there. view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 26 June 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Harrol, Moderator

True but why did he kill his father? In his pov he fore saw his father siding with the no-god and the consult. That leads me to believe he still considers himself the enemy of the consult and the no-god. view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 26 June 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Curethan, Didact

More like he's talking to the god/gods or the world at large - I recall he asks a question and the answer comes in the form of a twig that he pulls from his sandle - one leaf is green and waxy the other is brown and dead. Then he goes and kills Moenghus.

Why do the consult need to exterminate men (and non-men)? To prevent the god/s (who hold them damned) from reaching them - or perhaps to exterminate them too by proxy. The fact that they already seem to be functionally immortal doesn't seem to have given them an out. Stands to reason that if the god/s can infleunce things within Earwa that they would try and get Kellhus onside.

Heck - mebe the TTT is what's doing the talking, perhaps its become a power in its own right. (Ok thats crazy - time for a cup o tea and a lie-down) view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 27 June 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Nerdanel, Peralogue

I think outside of the strict hierarchy of Ishuäl, the Dûnyain are natural enemies. I think it's like the Kellhus/Comphas clash that came to be because both were so similar. Kellhus and Comphas are both ambitious and charismatic manipulators of other people, and while Kellhus is plain better in every respect, Conphas is good enough not to be taken in by Kellhus's deceptions and to mount some plausible opposition.

I think the Dûnyain sent Kellhus fully knowing that Kellhus and Moënghus would never cooperate. One would kill the other. Either that, or one would manipulate the other from the shadows in order to gain a greater control over the world, since there are few tools more effective than a Dûnyain who thinks he is making his own choices... view post


Who was Kellus talking to? posted 28 June 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Nerdanel&quot;:t1levp2s
I think outside of the strict hierarchy of Ishuäl, the Dûnyain are natural enemies. I think it's like the Kellhus/Comphas clash that came to be because both were so similar. Kellhus and Comphas are both ambitious and charismatic manipulators of other people, and while Kellhus is plain better in every respect, Conphas is good enough not to be taken in by Kellhus's deceptions and to mount some plausible opposition.

I think the Dûnyain sent Kellhus fully knowing that Kellhus and Moënghus would never cooperate. One would kill the other. Either that, or one would manipulate the other from the shadows in order to gain a greater control over the world, since there are few tools more effective than a Dûnyain who thinks he is making his own choices...[/quote:t1levp2s]

The Dûnyain ostensibly sent Kellhus from Ishual to assassinate Moenghus. The Dûnyain left behind arguably had no way of knowing of whether Kellhus would succeed or not, or even reach an accommodation with his father. As far as we know, this uncertainty was not too troubling; Moenghus demanded that he be sent his son and would threaten Ishual's isolation otherwise; the Dûnyain obliged him but sent Kellhus as an assassin. For the Dûnyain Kellhus departure from Ishual was a sort of zero sum game; whatever the result they would neutralize Moenghus - possibly they are aware of the potential of Kellhus. view post


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