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No-God's questions posted 27 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Alpha Crow, Candidate

I have to ask, what do you all think about the questions the No-God asked in all the dreams? (i.e. "What do you see?") Really intrigues me.

Have to say, Mr. Bakker definitely knows how to add mystery to a story. Too many authors make their enemy simply powerful and evil with no reason or issues. The PoN series definitely leaves you questioning "what does it mean?" about a whole lot and leaves it to your imagination to figure it out. Could there be a catch in there? A portent of the future? Pattern? Reason? Weakness?

After reading Heroes Die and Blade of Tyshalle (both awesome), I'm glad amazon.com pointed me to the books. My new favorites! view post


No-God's questions posted 27 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Harrol, Moderator

I believe the No-God lacks a certain amount of self awareness. To what degree I am not sure. He is certainly a force that disturbes the cycle of life. view post


No-God's questions posted 28 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

This has certainly been asked in many other topics, for the most part people seem to agree with Harrol on the lack of self awareness but i havent decided my opinion on the questions. view post


No-God's questions posted 28 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Quote: "Harrol":36lz8azw
I believe the No-God lacks a certain amount of self awareness. To what degree I am not sure. He is certainly a force that disturbes the cycle of life.[/quote:36lz8azw]

I think this seems to be the general consensus of many of us on the board, alhough to what extent we agree or disagree is different I guess. It does seem to indicate some sort of detachment from the world, not comprehending fully what it is. But of course we could all be wrong <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


No-God's questions posted 28 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I think the lack of awareness is a good possibility but it seems a little to simple for Bakkers ideas, I feel as though their needs to be something deeper. view post


No-God's questions posted 29 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:2x8v2dxs
I think the lack of awareness is a good possibility but it seems a little to simple for Bakkers ideas, I feel as though their needs to be something deeper.[/quote:2x8v2dxs]

The No God is most definitely self aware. However, beyond that, we know nothing. Here are some of the clues:

a) He repeats the words of Anaxophus in Akka's modified dreams. Of course, we're left wondering if the original dreams were true or if the new dreams are a lie

b) His words are repeated by the Sranc in unison.

c) WHAT AM I? WHAT DO YOU SEE? This is a confused and blind creature, but NOT a creature who is not self aware. He *is* self aware.


So what can we conclude based on these clues? Not much. The No God is somehow connected to the Sranc and possibly even to mankind (e.g. Anaxophus), but completely unware of what he is or even able to see (which caused many readers to incorrectly conclude that he isn't self aware). He is the ultimate creation of the Inchoroi, but his exact nature isn't explained yet. He's definitely one of Bakker's more interesting enigmas.


Edit: Changed Celmonas reference to Anaxophus. Doh! view post


No-God's questions posted 29 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by zarathustra, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Incu-Pacifico&quot;:3pje9bd0

a) He repeats the words of Celmonas in Akka's modified dreams. Of course, we're left wondering if the original dreams were true or if the new dreams are a lie
[/quote:3pje9bd0]

I am not sure which part of the books you are refering to here. Celmonas only appears in one scene towards the start of Prince of Nothing. But I don't have the book any more.
We have indeed spent much time discusses the No-God and how much he is a conscious entity.
As Mr Bakker has spoken of the No-God planning various battlefield tactics such as the sparing of the two Northern cities in order to preserve his few sorcerous then I think this shows some form of self awareness.
On the other hand a computer can make tactical descions but is not in any way self aware.
Speculating further I wonder if the No-God is actually afraid when taking the battlefield. We know that he has avoided this up until the desisive battle. So does the No-God feel emotions if so this would be another key part in understanding the creature.
Possible further clues could come from reading Daniel Dennets book Consciosness Explained which I know has influenced the author. But I haven't got round to reading it yet nor am likely to. view post


No-God's questions posted 29 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Murrin, Peralogue

But do we really know that the No-God did plan the war, and that it chose to stay off the battlefield? That could be the perception taken of it by the people of the Three Seas, but it could just as easily have been the Consult who made the decisions, the Consult who held it back until necessary. The idea that the No-God was in charge could come from a misperception of its nature.


When it asks &quot;what do you see?&quot; that doesn't indicate that it cannot see, only that is cannot see itself. To this extent Harrol would be right to say it lacks a &quot;certain amount&quot; of self-awareness. It cannot perceive its own nature. The fact that the king repeats the words at the end suggests he may have been the one the No-God was attempting to ask, to communicate with. The No-God wanted to know what it was.

Myself, I think the No-God may have been some element of the Outside that the Consult trapped in the World, sealed within the Carapace. If the thing that became the No-God (that becomes the No-God when this is done to it) was not of the World, it would have difficulty understanding the World if it suddenly found itself trapped there. view post


No-God's questions posted 29 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

This has less to do with the questions, but in another post I discussed how it seems the No-God has comprehended the TfT or is a large piece of it hence his precise control over the Sranc. As for his awareness I think there is definitely something more to the questions than a simple lack of awareness. view post


No-God's questions posted 30 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

I am not sure which part of the books you are refering to here. Celmonas only appears in one scene towards the start of Prince of Nothing.


Doh! You're right. I meant to say Anaxophus. I have no idea what Celmonas popped into my head. Change has been made. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> view post


No-God's questions posted 30 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Murrin&quot;:24019yqo


Myself, I think the No-God may have been some element of the Outside that the Consult trapped in the World, sealed within the Carapace. If the thing that became the No-God (that becomes the No-God when this is done to it) was not of the World, it would have difficulty understanding the World if it suddenly found itself trapped there.[/quote:24019yqo]

Maybe. But what about our face changing friends? What about the Sranc? They seem to posses some means of self-awareness. Or perhaps they are machines pretending at self awareness because that's what they were programmed to do. Do they have souls? The book leaves this open. Perhaps they posses some trapped elements of the Outside as you suggest the No-God does. view post


No-God's questions posted 30 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Will, Peralogue

Several times in the books Sarcellus is described as a well trained animal. What passes for thoughts pass through what passes for its soul, etc. It seems that creations of the Tekne are as self-aware as your dog, just far better trained. It lacks the complexity of a human mind, being entirely concerned with achieving climax, which it can do only at the bidding of its masters.

Kellhus recognizes that the face-changers bear a relation to the Sranc, wishing to rut with their knives. From this it seems that the Sranc are mentally similar to the face changers, although that is admittedly somewhat of a leap. It feels like they got a good suboradinate mind going in their creations and stuck with it. (Subsequent versions of an OS?)

I don't have any real idea what is up with the No-God though, as a creation of the Tekne it seems like it would resemble Sranc/Skin-changers, but as I recall the No-God is described as being &quot;awakened&quot; by the Inchoroi and consequently it may be fundamentally different from their creations. view post


No-God's questions posted 01 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Will&quot;:3e261acs
Several times in the books Sarcellus is described as a well trained animal. What passes for thoughts pass through what passes for its soul, etc. It seems that creations of the Tekne are as self-aware as your dog, just far better trained. It lacks the complexity of a human mind, being entirely concerned with achieving climax, which it can do only at the bidding of its masters..[/quote:3e261acs]

The book suggests that the &quot;complexity&quot; of the human mind is overrated. The Dunyain master circumstances by knowing &quot;what comes before&quot;. They know the programming that drives men and so are able to manipulate &quot;regular&quot; humans in ways simular to the ways the Consult manipulates the face changers and Sranc.

This begs an interesting philosophical question. If man can be as easily manipulated as these creatures, what gives him the right to say *he* has a soul and not these creations? view post


No-God's questions posted 01 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Harrol, Moderator

Do not forget that Kellhus stated that skin-soies lacked the depth of humans but rather they were a shadow of human depth. Something to that degree was stated. For reference it was statedin TTT at a point were Akka was talking to Kellhus about how hard it was to break skin spies. view post


No-God's questions posted 01 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Harrol&quot;:35rk1lhg
Do not forget that Kellhus stated that skin-soies lacked the depth of humans but rather they were a shadow of human depth. Something to that degree was stated. For reference it was statedin TTT at a point were Akka was talking to Kellhus about how hard it was to break skin spies.[/quote:35rk1lhg]

As I recall, Kellhus or Achamian observed that the Skin Spies were products of strong conditioning; i.e. response only to a given set of circumstances. Kellhus, Dunyain trained, could break the conditioning but this would be a programme of years. Moenghus, also Dunyain trained, did have years to break the Skin Spies he had captured; hence they revealed the Consult's plans. view post


No-God's questions posted 02 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Only as much as they knew about the Consult's plans. view post


No-God's questions posted 02 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Just wanted to point out that my comment of lack of awareness to some degree in no way implied that the No-God was not self-aware. Not comprehending oneself fully is not the same thing as being non-self-aware.

It is kind of like Frankensteins Monster in a way when you think about it, and the No-God may exist in that mold to some extent. I expect that it will be a superficial comparison at best given Scotts metaphysics view post


No-God's questions posted 02 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:74w2i4sm
Only as much as they knew about the Consult's plans.[/quote:74w2i4sm]

And that knowledge may have been considerable. For instance, (i) they knew of the Consult's master plan to close the world; (ii) they knew why the Consult was at war with the Cishaurim; (iii) they also knew that an extraordinary skin spy had been placed in the upper echelons of the Mandate.

(With its spies the Consult would have been better served to operate on a need to know basis.) view post


No-God's questions posted 13 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Catalyst, Commoner

It occured to me that when the No-God asks &quot;WHAT DO YOU SEE?&quot;, this is not a result of any lack of self-awareness but because the No-God is described as being encased in a sarcophagus (the Carapace - studded with eleven Chorae). Its pretty hard to see whats going on from the interior of a solid sarcophagus.

Also, why is the No-God encased in the Carapace? Obviously for protection, but what if it also limits the No-God in some way (eg. sight, movement, perception of the world, etc)?

The No-God is certainly self-aware (he is able to comprehend there is an 'I' to ask the constant question &quot;WHAT AM I?&quot; about). But encased in the Carapace, how much can he see, even of the interior of the Carapace. If no light enters the Carapace then the No-God will not be able to even see his own form; if he even has a physical form.

The fact is that we know next to nothing about the No-God. It is possible that he is no more than a tool himself, forced to do the will of the Consult. Now surely, some of you might say, the No-God could not be forced to do anything by the Consult. But why not? We assume that the No-God possesses some sort of sorcerous ability. Fantastic, but that isn't going to help when he's encased in a solid iron sarcophagus that is studded with eleven Chorae, thus rendering it immune to sorcery. Is the Carapace as much a prison as a method of protection? Okay, but whats to stop him laying waste to the whole bunch of them? Well, even the No-God has limits (otherwise how on Earth did the Consult not win first time around). And even if he did lay waste to them, he's still trapped in a lightless sarcophagus-prison.

The glossary at the end of TTT says that the Consult summoned the No-God. Is the No-God trapped in the physical world? Does he even want to be on the world of Eärwa and Eänna? Is he being held under duress, much like Zioz during the battle for Shimeh?


Laters view post


No-God's questions posted 13 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

The idea that the chorae was there to protect him as well as resrain him is a large idea already. view post


No-God's questions posted 13 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Catalyst, Commoner

Oops. I really should read through the rest of the threads. I'm too lazy too though <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> view post


No-God's questions posted 23 December 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Anonymous, Subdidact

When I first read the series the questions of Mog-Pharau made me pity him. Even more, I found that I could relate. Which struck me as kind of strange, since I am no World-Breaker by any stretch of the imagination. And as far as I know there was no drastic increase in stillborn infants 20 years ago.
Then it struck me (with my own palm, no less. Probably for being so stupid.): Those are the fundamental questions of Man. We crawl through life asking those selfsame questions.

What am I?

What do you see?

So here is my theory: The Consult summoned THE SOUL OF MANKIND (= all the souls of man) and bound them within the Carapace, thus leaving none to animate the newborn. Since the Unconditioned Soul is, according to the Dûnyain, a thing of the future, the Consult could have easily &quot;come before&quot; the SOUL. This could also be the way the No-God controlled the hordes of Sranc, Bashrag and Wracu: By instilling parts of itself, by ensouling the soulless. So maybe Tsuramah didn't control as much as become his own minions, much in the way of the Inrithi God, the One that is Many. And when the Heron Spear shattered the Carapace all the souls were released, rendering the Hordes soulless and enabling the Cycle of Souls once more. view post


No-God's questions posted 26 December 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Harrol, Moderator

Wow <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> That a lot of what you say could be true. I never saw it that way or even thought of it. I will have to look at it futher a we will have to wait for more books to come out to know for certain, but great catch. view post


No-God's questions posted 04 January 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Sea_Cucumber, Candidate

Wow, that was a great catch....I'd always thought that the No-God, for whatever reaso, was like an infant...but with awareness and intellect, but newborn nonetheless...which would be why Mog keps asking the question...it struck me as almost petulant, like a child who needs something, and demands it repeatedly. It makes alot of sense if Mog is literally an incarnation of all the souls not on Earwa, and why he expresses those 'fundamental' questions of man.

But then, shouldnt that affect the way the Outside leaks into the world? I can't properly remember akka's description of that, and i can't find the passage...it's somewhere in tTT though. view post


No-God's questions posted 19 January 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by jwrmad, Commoner

I think the theory that the No-God is the soul of all mankind has much to recommend it. I think it is worth saying that the No-God is a product of the Tekne, which is based upon the belief that living things are simply machines of a complicated species. How the Tekne could then be connected to the binding of souls is thus unclear. However, a skin-spy did have a soul, so clearly the Tekne can have some non-mundane components. This non-contradiction reinforces the theory, it seems to me.

Another interesting thing is the fact that the Tekne came with the Inchoroi from the Void, which resonates with discussions of the Outside in some sense. The Outside is described as a less objective existence in which &quot;Gods&quot; exist in sub-realities conforming to their will, while the World is the point of maximum objectivity in which the workings of the universe are independent of the desires of those who live within it. Now, I'll try explain my next theory clearly.

The Ark could be representative of the Inchoroi sub-reality in which they were technological &quot;Gods&quot; living in a world without souls and thus without damnation. When they crashed from the heavens into this world, they were subjected to a world involving sorcery (as compared to their apparent beam weapons e.g. the Heron Spear), Non-Men and worst of all, souls and judgment. By destroying all mankind, and perhaps Non-Men as well, the Inchoroi can eliminate all soulful creatures in existence and somehow seal this world from the Outside that was once their heaven but is now their feared future.

Ultimately this seems to connect to the idea of &quot;the other&quot; (ie that which is outside the self). Rather than having some sort of rational objective existence, the other is a product of those who view it. In a world believing in souls there are souls. In a world believing only in the Tekne, only the Tekne can exist. By removing those creatures who subscribe to the ideas of souls and the afterlife, the Inchoroi can destroy man's (and Nonmen's) ability to subjectively order &quot;the other&quot; along their lines of belief. Now, the primary issue with this is the fact that somehow the beliefs of third parties can effect the other for you, thus removing some of the subjectivity by subjecting you to their reality. This is in accordance with the philosophy of the book, however, as there is an extended discussion regarding how reality is shaped by the beliefs of others (eg why is this infant a king and this infant a slave?). This also explains why the world is the point of maximum objectivity, it is where millions of individuals meet in one place, and therefore are subjected to the whims and desires of others, rather than simply the fantasies of their own self. The irony of all this, of course, is that the Inchoroi are forced to believe in the soul (and, given this theory of the No-God, even make use of it) when attempting to destroy it, and thus align themselves with the world's belief. This susceptibility to &quot;peer pressure&quot; could be ultimately what is being critiqued. The other is changed because we allow it to be changed. We make ourselves the measure of all others, but so do we make all others the measure of ourselves. view post


No-God's questions posted 23 January 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Ulyaoth, Commoner

I never looked at the No-God as the product of the Tekne, and I think the only relation the No-God has to the Tekne is its oncoming resurrection. The No-God never seemed so much &quot;made&quot; as it was discovered, and harnessed. The Inchoroi aren't so vain as to worship their own creations, I would think, nor do I believe they would worship something they perceive as beneath them, which something made by their own hands would be.

If anything, I think the Tekne is merely a name for what we would call &quot;science.&quot; Not a religion, or competing view point. In my view, it has always seemed to be a study of biology and technology and how to apply them both to make a functional creation. The &quot;Void&quot; you refer to, is not synonymous with the outside, it's merely the word used to specify what we would call &quot;space.&quot; According to the descriptions given, The Ark is a living entity (or vessel) used to traverse it while simultaneously cultivating the lives of the creatures it held in its metaphorical (or actual) womb.

If anything, this much is true, the soul doesn't so much cause the Outside to exist, as it acts as a gateway to the Outside's jurisidiction in the organic world. When this gateway is removed, so then is its power over living entities in this life, and the next, hence the Inchoroi's goal. I don't think belief plays a factor in this, as the Inchoroi were forced to look at the Outside's existence as an inevitable fact, contradictory to belief. If it were as easy as &quot;not believing,&quot; it would be more plausible for the Inchoroi to merely construct a new religion as opposed to causing the genocide of an entire world.

The Inchoroi didn't discover the existence of the Outside, or Gods or even souls through peer pressure, they found the Outside by delving deeply beneath the Ark - a place where the destruction of their race had formulated a Tapoi which caused them to see into the Outside, and thus uncover the marker of their damnation and work towards preventing it. A goal that coincided with that of Shauriatas, who seemed to be proficient in the transferring of souls more so than the Inchoroi. I would imagine the Consult seeks to revive the No-God by utilizing his capability with that of the Tekne, or perhaps creating new branches of sorcery with this goal in mind.

I think the only prominence belief has on the world of the Prince of Nothing is personal. I do not think belief can contradict or negate existence. view post


No-God's questions posted 26 January 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Soul, Commoner

I'm not sure anyone said anything about contradicting or negating exsistence, as that would be fair easier said than done, as long as people see, feel, smell, taste, and breath they will believe they exist. If belief has no berring, then Kellhus's halloe'd hands become harder to explain, save perhaps mass hysteria, which he himself is succumbing to. Unless its the slow progression of the outside gaining interest in him. Also, the thousand-fold thought also comes into question.

I think Moengus pretty clearly spells out what the thousand-fold thought is. He relays the concept of a game of lies, they are so widely played out that then in-truth become reality. What a thousand, thousand believe becomes truth. Now, there are a lot of potential issues with this, as most people believe a lot of differant things, but i think by and large what is held to be 'unvirersaly true', holds sway.. now to what degree its hard to say. view post


No-God's questions posted 05 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Alpha Crow, Candidate

Two thoughts:
1) Didn't it say somewhere that the womb-plague was a virus or such?

2) Achamian notices the halos on Kellhus' hands in passing at one point and I think he's already disillusioned with him. I think the halos are real for whatever reason.

I'm still curious what exactly IS the thousandfold thought. And... what exactly happened to Kellhus' while he was circumfixed in the tree. Ripped out Serwe's heart? Came back and suddenly had haloed hands?

I think a lot of the story hinges on that particular sequence, but it is purposefully left in the dark. Kell's only plan to get down actually was in motion, but it wasn't what got him down. Yet he had revelations while in the tree that changed his planning and apparently, human status.

Did he just die on the cross and come back to the world? (so to speak) view post


No-God's questions posted 05 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Alpha Crow&quot;:3u5s8t90

Two thoughts:
1) Didn't it say somewhere that the womb-plague was a virus or such?
[/quote:3u5s8t90]
As I recall the womb-plague was the Inchoroi engineered disease that killed off all the Non-Men females (Non-Women?). It predated the spate of still-births that occurred during the No-God's existence by 1000's of years

2) Achamian notices the halos on Kellhus' hands in passing at one point and I think he's already disillusioned with him. I think the halos are real for whatever reason.

And many here would agree with you. But the haloes seem to persist even if someone who does not believe in Kellhus is observing him. Why should they disappear?

I'm still curious what exactly IS the thousandfold thought. And... what exactly happened to Kellhus' while he was circumfixed in the tree. Ripped out Serwe's heart? Came back and suddenly had haloed hands?

I think a lot of the story hinges on that particular sequence, but it is purposefully left in the dark. Kell's only plan to get down actually was in motion, but it wasn't what got him down. Yet he had revelations while in the tree that changed his planning and apparently, human status.

Did he just die on the cross and come back to the world? (so to speak)


What is the thousand-fold thought? I’m curious too, a gigantic con-trick, a mass acceptance of Kellhus' divinity? Both Moenghus and Kellhus realized they would never be able to sway the masses of the Three-Seas without appearing as a religious, messianic figure. The option was not really open to Moenghus (save through a proxy) but it was open to Kelllhus, and he even muses one time that he dare not tell them the truth. On the circumfix, Kellhus plans become actualized by belief - he becomes that divinity that the masses perceive him to be; this for mine was the thousand fold thought - the widespread recognition of Kellhus' divinity; intent and planning on Kellhus' part becomes sanctified by perfervid belief on the part of the Men of the Tusk. This belief is made even more sacred by the fact that the men of the Tusk had at one point rejected Kellhus and had done him near to death; a poignancy that Kellhus had undoubtedly intended. Of course, (as far as we know) it is a sham or a trick (Kellhus holding aloft the heart of his wife - as Eleazaras observed - was part of the trick because it was perceived that he had ripped out his own heart and not Serwe’s). But while on the circumfix Kellhus experienced visions and hallucinations, perhaps from the outside, perhaps from the No-God. Maybe this was brought on by his ordeal (he was very close to dying but then he’d been close to dying before) or maybe this was a higher state of consciousness; i.e. Kellhus has run through all the permutations and combinations and determined the status of gods, godlings, and No-Gods; maybe he has yet hidden plans to be revealed. The irony of Kellhus believing his own lies would be very funny. view post


No-God's questions posted 07 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtNo-God's questions by Alpha Crow, Candidate

I feel, intuitively I should say, there is something to the circumfix sequence. That his plan to get down was not what brought about him getting down, seems oddly important. That his plans are being superseded by his holy status and larger, divine plans, perhaps?

That being said, it seems odd that he planned and did rip out Serwe's heart just for such purposes. I'm sure everyone is as thirsty for the real answer. I would say it was physically impossible for him to do so with his bare hands, but he apparently has done similar while fighting.

Question: I'm under the impression the thousandfold thought is not for religious purposes, but the next or last step in the dunyain training. Moenghus certainly did not want to save mankind. In fact, it was implied that he wished to close off mankind to the Outside to save himself and the dunyain from hell. That part could just be fanaticism talking, also...
What do you think the basic idea of the thought is? I think it may be a super version of the probability trance. view post


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