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Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 26 October 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Harrol, Moderator

I do not know if anyone else has this problem but I can not read much fantasy anymore after reading the PON series. The only other fantasy writer I enjoy nowadays is G R R Martin. Is there anyone else out there plagued by the same problem? view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 26 October 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

No not really, I think PoN is one of the best series I have ever read but I still take pleasure in other novels and books. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 27 October 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by alhana, Auditor

I just started Earagon, the first book of the Inheirtance Series and coming soon to the a thearter near you this December! My oldest son read the book and we just bought the second book, Eldest that he is going to read as soon as he finishes Harry Potter, Half-Blood Prince again.

Just like anything else in life, I try not to compare as this limits one's judgement to make one thing "better than" and another thing "bad". I just enjoy well written literature. On the other hand, Mr. Bakker has raised the bar for what I consider to be "well written". In my opinion, the English language has become rather compromised in the over-use of slang, Webspeak, and outright bad grammar; I think it is great when an author produces a work of epic proportions that reminds us that the written word can still be an art. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 28 October 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I can be relatively snobby when it comes to fantasy, but that said I enjoy some good old swords n' sorcery, babes n' blades style fantasy novels as well. I have a guilty pleasure in the form of DnD based books and David Gemmel novels. But they don't compare, for me, to Bakker, Erickson, Martin, etc.

I'm also a fan of the Wheel of Time despite some of its many flaws. I think the world Jordan created was brilliant and exciting even if his writing can be pedantic at times.

I refuse to read Harry Potter though, I've read a few excerpts and although I can appreciate the fact that it is a pretty cool series with a good world and interesting characters the writing style and difficulty level kind of turns me off a bit. Maybe when that series is all done I'll check them all out of the library and read the entire series over a long weekend <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 28 October 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I still enjoy simpler novels like Gemmel and others likely because of the worlds they create are still interesting, even if they do not stand up against Bakker, Erikson, and Martin. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 30 October 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Harrol, Moderator

I have read all the WOT series and for the first five books I thought wow this is good. Then I read Bakker followed by Martin and it has never been the same since. I can not read the D and D novels anymore they just lack something. I just used to love reading those novels too. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 08 November 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Zarathinius, Auditor

The DnD books lack something all right: Originality. Ever since The Lord of the Rings, fantasy writers have had a hell of a time thinking of a plot that does not center around a magical object. Then again, as a player of D&amp;D, I don't mind a little pulp fantasy now and then. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 08 November 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

The DnD books lack something all right: Originality. Ever since The Lord of the Rings, fantasy writers have had a hell of a time thinking of a plot that does not center around a magical object.



Tis very true, and do forget epic quests that end up being called Fellowships. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 13 November 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Lythade, Candidate

yeah it seems that since J.R.R. Tolken wrote his books almost every fantasy novel has been compared or in someway coppied his work but i have found some awsome authors that have quite large colletions of books that have no possible commonalities to LOTR other then that they are Fantasy novels.... view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 13 November 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

Quote: &quot;Harrol&quot;:3h77aj4g
I do not know if anyone else has this problem but I can not read much fantasy anymore after reading the PON series. The only other fantasy writer I enjoy nowadays is G R R Martin. Is there anyone else out there plagued by the same problem?[/quote:3h77aj4g]

YES!!! I just entered this realm of literature (a couple of years ago) and was blown away by Scott's work! So I figured - in between each book - that I'd find other fantasy works and be equally riveted... NOT! Not Martin, not Erickson, not Rawn, not... whomever else I've read and either hated or thought little more than Scott-wannabees (despite the fact that Scott is apparently the new kid on the block). I can't read any more of this stuff and like it!

Plus I feel very uncomfortable picking up books with dragons, men with flaming swords and scantilly clad women on the cover. I used to make fun of you people... know I'm turning into you - AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Scott sucks. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 13 November 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Harrol, Moderator

It is okay Mahajanga Mordecai just let go of the pain. I just hide the fact that read fantasy. If I had to deny the fact that read fantasy most people would believe me. It is hard being a closet fantasy fan. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 13 November 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Actually I find it quite easy most people I know arent too interested in what people read so if the topic does happen to come up I tell them and they usually could careless or want to borrow the book. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 14 November 2006 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Lythade, Candidate

i'm the only person out of my whole huge family to read books and my friends like most people my age just go to the bars every night....so i don't have to hide cause there's onone to hide from <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 06 January 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

as far as Fantasy writing goes, Bakker has truly been the end for me. If anyone can suggest a Fantasy author with similar talent I hope to devour his books as well. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 06 January 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Sea_Cucumber, Candidate

When i first bought the book...

okay, this requires a bit of a confession..se, i don't usually jump from fantsy series...until i buy a new book bsed on cover alone. I bought tWP on cover alone, and was riveted by how perfectly flawed all the characters seemed. now i realize it was to contrast Kellhus, but even then it was wholly unlike anything i had read, ever. It felt like it was only fantasy so scott could communicate his expressions/philosophies of humanity and our flaws.

anyways, that basiclly sums it up...reading other fantyasy has been difficult, and for the first time i've not bothered even touching those old books i used tor ead every now and again...thoughtless reading is no fun anymore

that said, well done Mr. Bakker on an amazing trilogy. I have little doubt that these series will be the stuff my grandchildren read. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 08 January 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Harrol, Moderator

I recommend G R R Martin for you Avatar. His ASOIF series is great. The first book is called A Game of Thrones. If you have already read that series then I do not know what to recommend. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 17 January 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Inner_visions, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Harrol&quot;:8kxi27eq
I do not know if anyone else has this problem but I can not read much fantasy anymore after reading the PON series. The only other fantasy writer I enjoy nowadays is G R R Martin. Is there anyone else out there plagued by the same problem?[/quote:8kxi27eq]

QFT.

I find it hard to enjoy any writing that is subpar, which is most fantasy and SF. No offense but good writing is hard to find anywhere, and fantasy and SF seem to be no exception... it's just fiction books get more publicity and awards.

IF you can't find something you're willing to read in a certain subject you might as well read something from a different subject. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

BTW anyone have any suggestions other than Erikson, Martin or Goodkin? view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 24 January 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by lordnull, Commoner

This might be obvious but the Book of the New Sun series by Gene Wolfe (Shadow of the Torturer...Claw of the Conciliator...et al) is among my favorite fantasy/sf series. It's very different from PoN but it's equally intelligent and compelling. I recently reread the books and found new things I hadn't noted before.

If you're interested in books outside the genre that have some similarities to PoN, Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian (Bakker uses a quote from it in introducing The Thousandfold Thought) is a phenomenal novel with the same kind of epic scale. And McCarthy's prose is incomparable. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 24 January 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Harrol, Moderator

Thanks Lord Null I will give it a try. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 26 January 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Whiskeyjack, Candidate

For those of you unaware, Steven Erickson's Malazan Book of the Fallen is the greatest in epic/ high fantasy lit. to date. I love the fact that Scott thanks him in his books, b/c Steven Erickson really does deserve credit for reinventing the fantasy genre. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 14 February 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by RazorSmile, Candidate

Quote: &quot;avatar_of_existence&quot;:3m6niu29
as far as Fantasy writing goes, Bakker has truly been the end for me. If anyone can suggest a Fantasy author with similar talent I hope to devour his books as well.[/quote:3m6niu29]

Try Elizabeth Bear. Her Promethean Age series, so far consisting of Blood &amp; Iron (2006) and Whiskey &amp; Water (2007) is completely different from Bakker's stuff but I can't honestly say he's better. I can pretty much guarantee the charaters are like nothing you've ever seen.

What's it about? Basically, a shadow war between Faerie, the land of elves and bad magic and an order of mortal mages called the Prometheans. Blood, pain and cost; no one is safe. Complications include Hell (and Lucifer) as a semi-neutral Third Side and the Dragon, an awesomely powerful hyper-anagogic being who owes allegiance to no one (quite the reverse, come to think of it.)

And if you ever wanted to see an incredibly weird magic system, check the Promethean brand shown in B &amp; I. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 15 February 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Curethan, Didact

I see where your coming from. Looking for more challenging, mature, thoughtful and genre busting fantasy? Try these, or don't and miss out. No hackneyed prophecies, artifact quests or manifest destinies here, I promise.


China Mieville. Takes fantasy back to the days of the Wizard of Oz then gives it an industrial revolution, a good dose of pathos and bad brown acid. This guy didn't win a slew of awards for nuttin.

Steph Swainston. One of the best anti-heroes since Elric imo, and a fantasy world that is about as derivitive as u can get. The writing and plot aren't as good as Bakker, but the characterisation and inventiveness makes up for it.

Jeff Vandemeer. I still get disturbed by the freaky mushroom people, and I don't think I have read any better prose. The story of how the guy got his work into print is damn interesting too. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 20 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Class, Commoner

I agree that the trilogy has made it difficult to read other works. There is too much childishness in most fantasy fiction which most authors big up with a bit of violence or nasty baddy stuff. ADULTS ARE YOUR READERS and I think, generally, we really don't believe that heroes (or other!) are perfect and holy and selfless and chaste and blah blah blah. For example, I loved the mental anguish that Achamian went through and the intense, natural emotions that he endured - vengance, lust, jealousy, loss, self preservation - a truly believable but unpredictable character with whom one can identify and admire, not a fairy tale 500 year old celibate magician whose life and deeds would rival JC ! Also can you tell me, was Cnaiur a good guy or a bad guy ??? He is a brilliant paradox - give us some more bad good guys and good bad guys Mr S B ! view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 21 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Jamara, Auditor

Martin is about the only thing I find equivalent, though I keep my ears open for news of another good series. I'll probably check out Erickson. But I think it is a maturity issue, not a stylist or content. I love the maturity of actions, writing, consequences, and intrigue. And I have tried and failed to reread the Chronicles, but I just can't.

However, I contradict the statement that a mature audience is the audience to be written for. I don't think I should have read, or would fully have understood Martin, and definitely not Bakker, back when I was in 6th grade. I think that it is just frustrating for us as adults that there isn't more fantasy our there for us.

As far as Harry Potter, I was very leery at first, but it is well written and quite fun! I usually reread all the books while I'm waiting for the next installment of my more serious authors. They are a fun read! view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 25 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Buckethead, Peralogue

I love that bakker is able to indulge with non-violent and non-sexual adult topics within the series as well as the sex and violence. As much as they are there, i don't feel like they are the purpose of the series. i found myself relating to the books more than any fantasy i have ever read, mostly because of the human attributes of the characters i suppose (their insecurities and shortcomings, with the exceptions of kellhus i guess). he does a great job changing the narration of his story while at the same time using it to display the thoughts and feelings of his characters. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 25 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Harrol, Moderator

I could not agree more Buckethead. In fact that almost to the &quot;t&quot; is why I like Bakker. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 25 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Madness, Peralogue

Just a comment on what Whiskeyjack wrote above.

It's funny that you mention that, Bakker crediting Erikson. Erikson himself actually credits Glen Cook, author of the Black Company novels, with the reinvention of the fantasy genre.

&quot;The thing about Glen Cook is that with The Black Company he single-handedly changed the face of fantasy - something a lot of people didn't notice and maybe still don't. He brought the story down to a human level, dispensing with the cliché archetypes of princes, kings, and evil sorcerers. Reading his stuff was like reading Vietnam War fiction on peyote.&quot; - Steve Erikson, author of Gardens of the Moon view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 30 March 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Madness&quot;:ixq1svvv
Just a comment on what Whiskeyjack wrote above.

It's funny that you mention that, Bakker crediting Erikson. Erikson himself actually credits Glen Cook, author of the Black Company novels, with the reinvention of the fantasy genre.

&quot;The thing about Glen Cook is that with The Black Company he single-handedly changed the face of fantasy - something a lot of people didn't notice and maybe still don't. He brought the story down to a human level, dispensing with the cliché archetypes of princes, kings, and evil sorcerers. Reading his stuff was like reading Vietnam War fiction on peyote.&quot; - Steve Erikson, author of Gardens of the Moon[/quote:ixq1svvv]

Am I the only person who is distinctly unimpressed by The Black Company series? I read some of the novels on the strenght of Erikson's recommendation. I don't think Glen Cook even approaches Erikson as a writer and story-teller, and has none of the latter's invention. Mind you, lately I have been getting a little tired of Erikson. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 03 April 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by lordnull, Commoner

Am I the only person who is distinctly unimpressed by The Black Company series? I read some of the novels on the strenght of Erikson's recommendation. I don't think Glen Cook even approaches Erikson as a writer and story-teller, and has none of the latter's invention. Mind you, lately I have been getting a little tired of Erikson.


I read Cook after a friend of mine gave the Black Company books a huge recommendation. I mean huge. So I read the first one and had a reaction similar to your own. I mean I enjoyed it but I didn't think Cook's books were &quot;great&quot; by any stretch of the imagination. I wrote as much on another forum and practically got shouted down Red-Scare style.

Guess it's simply a matter of taste. They really are fun to read...but I don't think they're not in the same world as say PoN or aSoIF.

I haven't read Erickson much...started Gardens of the Moon...but I'm still working on the A Feast of Crows. view post


Scott Bakker ruined it for me. posted 05 April 2007 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;lordnull&quot;:3qh0zpr5
.....................
Guess it's simply a matter of taste. They really are fun to read...but I don't think they're not in the same world as say PoN or aSoIF.

I haven't read Erickson much...started Gardens of the Moon...but I'm still working on the A Feast of Crows.[/quote:3qh0zpr5]

Agreed on Cook's status in that hierarchy. I would persist with the Erikson novels (the 7th novel is almost out now so there's a lot to read). After Gardens of the Moon, you get an idea of how big that world is and how long was its history - the revelations are slow in coming though. I won't call you a commie pinkoe if you don't like them. view post


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