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Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 14 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

The end of TTT has to make you wonder. Kellus in the whirlwind of debris (to protect himself from the chorae) sounds suspciously like our buddy the No-God and HIS whirlwind. Is the No God's Carapace in fact this swirling shower of debris?


Also at one point, Kellus reconsidered the solidity of the Principle of Before and After (at Mengedda, I believe). Could the Consult Tekne research (during the Investitures) in fact be Time Travel research? Were they somehow able to get Kellus to come back in time and through his great power and mastery of Gnosis cause the Apocolypse?

The question remains, what reason would he want this? Well Kellus accused his father of wanting to bring about the Apocolypse. Or more accurately, he said that his father would *have* to bring about the Apocolypse in order to master his circumstances. Now is Kellus stuck in the same trap as his father?

Food for thought... view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 14 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Hmmm its a very good idea unlikely it will happen though, I always did see the connection between the whirlwinds though. You have some very interesting ideas Incu. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 14 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: "Incu-Pacifico":lszthz6t
The end of TTT has to make you wonder. Kellus in the whirlwind of debris (to protect himself from the chorae) sounds suspciously like our buddy the No-God and HIS whirlwind. Is the No God's Carapace in fact this swirling shower of debris?[/quote:lszthz6t]

I'm sure the parallel is intentional. I don't know (yet) what Scott is trying to do though... <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->

The whirlwhind was not the No-God's Carapace. It was a nimil sarcophagus (that was encrusted with Chorae as an additional protection). That's why they had to use the Heron Spear to crack it.

The No-God has nothing to fear from sorcery. In fact, if it is true that even the sulphurous godlings (and the gods?) can be harmed by Chorae, it seems Mog might kick their ass as well...

Quote: &quot;Incu-Pacifico&quot;:lszthz6t
Also at one point, Kellus reconsidered the solidity of the Principle of Before and After (at Mengedda, I believe). Could the Consult Tekne research (during the Investitures) in fact be Time Travel research? Were they somehow able to get Kellus to come back in time and through his great power and mastery of Gnosis cause the Apocolypse?[/quote:lszthz6t]

I think this is unlikely. They didn't have (and don't have) the knowledge or the equipment for something like that (time travel). Then I also doubt that Kellhus is/was the No-God.

I remember someone posting a theory where the No-God is Earwa's world-consciousness, traumatized and awakened by the crash of the Inchoroi ark. I happen to like the idea. Especially since it could mean that the No-God, in interaction with Kellhus, might turn out to be the Consult's worst nightmare... Or maybe not. What do I know? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

On the issue of time, it is possible that more than one concept of time could be at work simultaneously. One operating on the plane of the commonplace, and then what we might call 'sacral time'. Or it could mean that time is more of an illusion than a constant.

Consider this quote from TWP. It certainly provides a clue as to what Time might be, or at least what I called sacral time:

Quote: &quot;Teres Ansansius, The City of Men&quot;:lszthz6t
The Poet will yield up his stylus only when the Geometer can explain how Life can at once be a point and a line. How can all time, all creation, come to the now? Make no mistake: this moment, the instant of this very breath, is the frail thread from which all creation hangs.

That men dare to be thoughtless . . .[/quote:lszthz6t]

If the present can affect both past and future, then Time might well be an illusion, something fluid and mutable. Not in the sense that someone might move through time, but that actions of world-importance might shape a different History for both past and future.

Here's a bit I poached from Wikipedia that might answer as an explanation for what time in Earwa is:

Ralph Waldo Emerson considers time as presentness, where past and future are but our present projections (of our memory, hope, etc.). For Emerson, time needs a qualitative measurement rather than a quantitative one.


Quote: &quot;Incu-Pacifico&quot;:lszthz6t
The question remains, what reason would he want this? Well Kellus accused his father of wanting to bring about the Apocolypse. Or more accurately, he said that his father would *have* to bring about the Apocolypse in order to master his circumstances. Now is Kellus stuck in the same trap as his father?

Food for thought...[/quote:lszthz6t]

Well, TTT explained in detail why Moenghus would have to do something like that. Kellhus might be immune because of his mission. After all, do we know that he isn't acting according to what the Outside feels is necessary? Or that at some point Kellhus will not supplant the Outside?

There's a lot we don't really know, to be making predictions. In fact, I think the reasons and motivations of the Consult, the Outside etc. might be simply one layer of revelation, the real meat lying a bit deeper.

After all, it's too convenient for Scott to reveal the &quot;facts of life&quot; in what was nothing but an introductory trilogy. The real story is still to come. And since whether the Consult will win or lose, or whether their convictions (or those of their enemies for that matter) are true all hang in the balance, we can't say much with certainty. At least not on the metaphysics.

In fact, it seems the more Scott tells us, the more still remains to be told, and the least certainties you have.

It sure plays havoc with trying to make predictions. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 14 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

You bring up good points about inconsistencies, White Lord. I guess I was throwing those thoughts out there to see if anything would stick.

However, even given the inconsistencies you mentioned, I'm sure there's a connection somehow...I'm just missing it or as you said, it hasn't been fully revealed in this trilogy. Oh well. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 14 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Im sure Aspect-Emperor will reveal more about their relationship. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 16 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Harrol, Moderator

Well that killed a few of my predictions. White Lord is correct that Scott has not given us enough clues to piece a whole lot together. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 16 October 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Well thats the point it builds suspense and gives him thousands of possiblities for what he wants the relationship to be. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 22 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Phil, Candidate

I think Kellhus will become the No-god, though I base this on pure idle speculation, no real proof.

The first books are about a Prince of Nothing. The second series is about an Aspect Emperor. The third set of books is a big mystery.

Why the big mystery? Would it really be that much of a spoiler to tell us now? Well, Scott Bakker says so, so you have to assume he's right <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> So Kellhus must become something pretty special in the last series. What could come after Aspect Emperor? Well, I reckon it's a god of some kind.

I don't think he was the No-God of the first apocalypse, but maybe he will become the No-God of the second. Don't ask me how, I don't have a clue. Don't ask me what the metaphysical repercussions would be, cos I don't have a clue. Maybe there will be two No-Gods, and this is how Kellhus will defeat the other. Or he will just be the only No-God, and end up bringing about the apocalypse by simply existing.

And whenever the No-God asks, 'WHAT DO YOU SEE?' I can just imagine him answering, 'I see myself.' view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 23 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by lfex, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Phil&quot;:1kcy4roq
I think Kellhus will become the No-god, though I base this on pure idle speculation, no real proof.

The first books are about a Prince of Nothing. The second series is about an Aspect Emperor. The third set of books is a big mystery.

Why the big mystery? Would it really be that much of a spoiler to tell us now? Well, Scott Bakker says so, so you have to assume he's right <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> So Kellhus must become something pretty special in the last series. What could come after Aspect Emperor? Well, I reckon it's a god of some kind..'[/quote:1kcy4roq]

After some thought I decided there are only two things which make sense as a title of the third set of books. One possibility is No-God as some on the board seem to think, but another possibility is Shaman. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 23 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Phil, Candidate

Would that really require a big spoiler alert though? I can't see that needing to be kept under wraps. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 23 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by lfex, Peralogue

Well, if Kellhus becomes a Shaman, it would mean he really speaks with a voice of God. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 23 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

The majority of the Three-Seas at this point already believe he is some sort of Shaman, as the most of them believe he is a prophet and it will now be know that he practices sorcery so for all intents and purposes he is a shaman. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 24 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

I agree, Phil. The connection between the No-God and Kellus has been established (the No-God speaks to him after all!). What remains to be seen is the exact nature of that connection. I too kind of feel that he is either the No-God or somehow responsible for its creation....but I have no idea how that would work. I threw out time travel as food for thought (and suggested the Tekne as the means for that), but I really have no idea at all. Bakker has provided clues as to the No-God's nature but they are WAAY, WAAAY too (deliberately!) obtuse to draw any conclusions from. Damn you Scott! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 27 November 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Harrol, Moderator

Scott does a good job at that. i believe it is pretty clear that the no-god has too much influence over Kellhus as evidenced in Akka's last dream. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 15 January 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Ulyaoth, Commoner

I don't think we can assume Achamian's last dream was of the same order as his others. When the dream was had, everything he had faith in, everything he believed in, had been overturned, and his emotions, and heart was being shaped into stone. The dreams were, I would actually assume, becoming his own, and since dreams are caricatures of suppressed thoughts, it would only make sense that the two most pressing issues in his mind (the Apocalypse, and Kellhus) would merge.

But that's beside the point. There's a certain tidbit of information that's always stood out in my mind, and that's the fact that it's Cnaiur's narrative, not Kellhus's that coincides with the given traits of the No-God he's assumed. There's something interesting about his word usage, and thoughts. The descriptions of madness, and hints of a demonic presence perhaps possessing him, the constant &quot;I'm forgetting somethings;&quot; phrases like &quot;Again the Whirlwind,&quot; and the inner monologue when he looked at Moengus &quot;What do you see?&quot; he's also been described as having a void, amognst many other ponderous anecdotes that make me wonder. This could, of course be coincidental, but it's not entirely negligible. When I regain the books, I'd be more than happy to hunt for said occurrences and note them for the sake of reference.

But this doesn't entirely rule out Kellhus, of course. We don't know how honest he was being in his discourse with Moengus (where it was hinted he had reason to deceive him), but if he didn't then the No-God speaks to him directly and regularly, and he didn't merely have a single vision of his presence, which we glimpsed in the Warrior-Prophet. This would be interesting, and it would show more heightened signs of sentience in respect to the No-God. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 31 January 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Purple Library Guy, Commoner

Quote: &quot;Phil&quot;:1jy2nj15
So Kellhus must become something pretty special in the last series. What could come after Aspect Emperor?[/quote:1jy2nj15]

My personal fond hope is that he'll become specially dead. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 01 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by U-Boat, Commoner

I read somewhere that I cannot remember that the third trilogy is dubiously dubbed- No-God Trilogy.
Which really helps the theory that Kellhus becomes the No-God in Trilogy III.

Purple Library Guy, I share your sentiments. I'm almost convinced that Kellhus will be working actively to destroy mankind some stage during this series. view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 23 March 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by Jamara, Auditor

As far as the third trilogy title, I think that it would be less poetic to go from:

Prince of Nothing to No-God

than it would be to go from:

Prince of Nothing to God of All view post


Is Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. posted 11 March 2008 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellus the No-God? End of TTT and being in the whirlwind. by ceti, Commoner

Up until this point Kellhus has gone from victory to victory, never looking back. He may continue this streak in the next series, coming to control the very destinies of men and thus enslaving all.

It may be we readers are being stoked for his comeuppance by all the sheep in the story. view post


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