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Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 13 October 2006 in Author Q & AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Alpha Crow, Candidate

For the longest I thought perhaps it was a wily trick Kellhus was using to help his image, something he figured out or knew how to cause.
It really came to my attention when Achamian was staring at them.

Then in TTT, Kellhus didn't understand them himself, so it reasons that he is not causing it purposely and really IS the prophet (which things tend to suggest).

Anyone able to throw some light on the subject?

Thanks!
Crow view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 13 October 2006 in Author Q & AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Harrol, Moderator

Alpha there is anothere thread on this that may shed some light on that topic for you. By the way welcome to the board. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 13 October 2006 in Author Q & AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Alpha Crow, Candidate

Happen to remember the title to help the search?

Thanks for the welcome, btw <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 13 October 2006 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Alpha Crow, Candidate

Oh, disregard <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Found it under &quot;glowing hands&quot;

Yet, still no answer! Maybe Mr. Bakker is wily enough to realize the only way to make an intellectual (or would-be) happy is to NOT show them the answer. Then they joyously begin with postulates and theories, followed by all the arguments, research and cross referencing... and sleepless nights. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 14 October 2006 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Harrol, Moderator

You are right Alpha Crow he does do a good job at not giving away too much too fast. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 14 November 2006 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Harrol, Moderator

After rereading the WP I believe the haloes are perception and not reality. I cite the part where the skin spy took the image of Kellhus and interorgated Serwe. Serwe saw haloes on the hands that beat her. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 14 November 2006 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

Damn. I was just about to inform you that you are mistaken and that the statement was that a &quot;hallowed&quot; hand struck her not a &quot;haloed hand&quot;.

But, in fact, it is the latter. Damn. Now I'm confused all over again.

Is it possible that we can sum this up to Serwe being delusional? She was, after all, the most deluded person in the book... which is saying a lot given some of the characters.

Most notable example: Xerius
The man thought himself a &quot;god&quot;... LITERALLY!!!! view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 06 January 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

perhaps the haloes are there to represent the delusion of the Holy War and eventually of Kellhus himself. Like the double agent who loses his original identity after years of playing a role, eventually believing he is who he pretends to be. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 06 January 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Soul, Commoner

I think its more like, the belief of the others are turning him into what he merely pretended to be. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 08 January 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Harrol, Moderator

The perceptions of Soul and Avatar seem to both be correct to me. Kellhus and the people are falling for the delusion. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 10 February 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by XGenJester, Commoner

Quote: &quot;Harrol&quot;:2f5ck63w
The perceptions of Soul and Avatar seem to both be correct to me. Kellhus and the people are falling for the delusion.[/quote:2f5ck63w]

I disagree, I don't think Kellhus is falling for any delusion. I think he knows full well what is going on, but in order to perpetuate the delusion to the masses he must mask even his thinking, less he gives something away. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 10 February 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Madness, Peralogue

Edit: I read this again and I think I should probably put this here.

*Spoilers below*

I'm not sure I agree with you, XGen.

The whole argument of Kellhus's haloed hands is basically just the overall argument of whether Kellhus is really a prophet or not; which is just something I don't believe.

While I don't wholly agree with Harrol's writing that Kellhus is becoming deluded, we do know that Kellhus believes in the haloes, reality or otherwise.

Kellhus looked to the haloes about his hands. &quot;The crimes you've committed, Father ... the sins ... When you learn of the damnation that awaits you, when you come to believe, you will be no different from the Inchoroi.


The above quote, for me, really accentuates the fact that Kellhus not only believes in the haloes but that he believes in the scriptures inscribed on the Tusk or religion and Inrithism as a whole. This is actually something extremely scary especially if the Inchoroi did actually have a hand in writing the Tusk - which you can speculate on [url=http&#58;//forum&#46;three-seas&#46;com/viewtopic&#46;php?t=2139:g2br8dcn]here[/url:g2br8dcn].

However, since I do not believe in the Eärwaen religions - I rather think that the Nonmen commentary on religion especially regarding agencies is likely a more correct explaination - I have another theory on Kellhus's delusion.

I think that Moënghus, who remained Dûnyain despite his expulsion by the Pragma, actually nails it pretty well on the head; that the trial of the world has broken Kellhus.

As we've all read the trilogy, we know that no assertion set down by any faction of Eärwa is absolute as well that all are relative. In this light, I believe wholly that the trial of the world did &quot;break&quot; Kellhus from a Dûnyain point of view, which I maintain Moënghus offers us.

Rather my own assertion reads as follows:

I think that Kellhus leaves the isolation of Ishüal as Dûnyain. He travels south, always south, towards Shimeh and as he becomes more and more immersed in his act as prophet he eventually becomes deluged by emotion.

At the end of The Thousandfold Thought I believe Kellhus truly does love Esmenet. I also believe that he is &quot;more&quot; as he states but not in the way he thinks. An emotional man with Dûnyain training will be &quot;more&quot; than a Dûnyain in an extremely exciting way; which I think we'll experience in The Aspect-Emperor novels. It's not as if we'll lose the cold calculating scrutiny of the Dûnyain either as Ishüal is yet to be unleashed and Cû'jara Cinmoi has hinted at a female Dûnyain walking Eärwa.

I guess just to finish off - I want to have a shower and coffee before the weekend shift - the following are the two most damaging points to Kellhus as an actual Inrithi prophet:

- As Harrol states above Serwë sees the haloes around the skin-spy's hands. This leads me to believe they are a product of delusion and not an actuality.

- I'll refer to Xinemus: Kellhus cannot heal. Perhaps if Kellhus's inferences of sorcery prove correct we may actually see a sorcerer who can create rather than solely destroy but as an Inrithi prophet whom can perform unexplainable miracles, Kellhus fails.

My final words before I go, and I apologize because they are somewhat off topic, a little food for thought.

Perhaps Kellhus already has some biological children; among the Dûnyain offspring of Ishüal. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 11 February 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Soul, Commoner

Those are some good points, especialy involving the inchoroi and the tusk. However, Kellhus' not being able to heal is not damaging. Kellhus wasn't the prophet yet, imo just as neo in the matrix wasn't the one when Morpheus found him. Kellhus won't be the prophet he claims to be, until he believes he is the prophet he claims to be which seemed to be what was happening at the end of the thousandfold thought. If the Inchoroi or probably more precisely the Mandate via the Mangecca created the tusk that is indeed pretty scarey, however the principal of the one god isn't excluded by this as kellhus expresses the god as a sort of 'World Soul'. Lets hope the Aspect Emporer touches on some of thse concepts early on. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 11 February 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Quote: &quot;Soul&quot;:2amiwhjq
....... If the Inchoroi or probably more precisely the Mandate via the Mangecca created the tusk that is indeed pretty scarey, however the principal of the one god isn't excluded by this as kellhus expresses the god as a sort of 'World Soul'. Lets hope the Aspect Emporer touches on some of thse concepts early on.[/quote:2amiwhjq]


Im not really sure what you mean by &quot;the Mandate via the Mangaecca created the tusk&quot; The Madate definitely did not create the Tusk in any way shape or form unless of course you are confusing the Consult with the Mandate. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 12 February 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Soul, Commoner

Yes, I meant Consult sorry, all the ms perhaps. The time frames for some of these events are sketchy so its hard to place, I can't recall as I don't have the glossary near by, but was the tusk brought when they broke the gates or after? view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 12 February 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Madness, Peralogue

I'm glad Warrior-Poet corrected you, Soul, though I've no idea how you confused the Consult for the Mandate.

As for the timeline, I'll just quickly give you the background of my comment as I'm only on break for 15 minutes.

I meant what I wrote to mean exactly that; solely the Inchoroi, or perhaps the Nonmen Aporic sorcerers could be responsible for the Tusk's inscriptions, if at all.

The worship of the Tusk and the chronicles of it take place just before the Breaking of the Gates. The Chronicle of the Tusk ends with the determination of four of The Five Tribes of Men to the east of the Kayarus in Eänna to enter Eärwa.

To translate that to Eärwaen history, the Nonmen had just recently - relative to Nonmen - subdued the remaining Inchoroi and their servants in the depths of Min-Uroikas.

Again, this speculation of Inchoroi writing the Tusk was asserted by posters other than myself. Though I can see vague evidence of it, as I assert in the post linked in my above post, I find nothing conclusive. The main evidence aside from the Tusk's opinion of Nonmen and sorcery, both of which the Inchoroi would have loathed at the time of the Tusk's inscription, is that the four invading tribes of Men used Chorae in their wars against the Nonmen indicating that the Inchoroi and Men had encountered eachother prior to the Breaking of the Gates. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 21 March 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Jamara, Auditor

Hi, first time posting.
Here's my oppinion, we cannot not infer whether Kellhus actually saw his own haloes prior to the ending of TTT, but we do know that many saw them. Many that were being deluded. Eventually even Achamian falls under the delussion and sees these haloes. Eventually even Kellhus falls under the dellusion that he is the prophet (i'm not making any judgement calls yet as to whether he is or isn't) and sees the haloes.
So my point is this; if one man is deluded, his delussions are naught but another's lies. If many share the same delussion, it becomes a belief in a lie. If everyone, including the liar, believes the delussion, does it not become Truth? Belief is Truth, or so Moenghus would have us believe.
Reality is fluid, and what is believed by all, is true. If Kellhus is a false-prophet, a manipulator, who convinces everyone (including himself) that he is a prophet, does he not become a prophet. Are his words not Truth? Does not what he says become Truth? He believes it to be the Truth, and everyone believes him, so isn't it? view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 30 March 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Trutu Angotma, Peralogue

i would agree on any matter acept this. we cat say he is a prophet unless we know wether or not he truly communes with the gods. even if he lies to him self, there is a fine line between a madman and a prophet view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 30 March 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Jamara, Auditor

I'm not sure if we can infer correctly whether he does or doesn't confer with the God, but the No-God has spoken to him (or at least he has seen the same vision/dream as Mandati). That is why I'm not sure whether he is a prophet or not.

If he is, then the haloes can easily be explained as divine. I merely made an argument for why the haloes if is not a prophet. Mass delussionment. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 02 April 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Celestial Ram, Commoner

Im a believer.

I think Kellhus really has been chosen, by the Outside.
I think that the haloed hands are similar to the Mark of the sorcerers. However i think that the haloed hands are even stronger, more potent, so that even occasionaly non-few can see them. It is probably a thing of the third sight.

The only real evidence i have to support this are the vision and voices he hears. As well as the prophecy he makes. He knows he will die assasinated ( im guessing by Druass) and that his son will take over the battle against the no-God.

As for serwe. She was just delusional. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 09 April 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by shockwave, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Celestial Ram&quot;:jg8tp71d


The only real evidence i have to support this are the vision and voices he hears. As well as the prophecy he makes. He knows he will die assasinated ( im guessing by Druass) and that his son will take over the battle against the no-God.

As for serwe. She was just delusional.[/quote:jg8tp71d]

Hmm, a prophecy that Kellhus makes? I completely forgot that or i didnt read those pages well enough to understand that. Could you explain or point me to the scene/page? view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 09 April 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Quote: &quot;shockwave&quot;:3itojhjd
Quote: &quot;Celestial Ram&quot;:3itojhjd


The only real evidence i have to support this are the vision and voices he hears. As well as the prophecy he makes. He knows he will die assasinated ( im guessing by Druass) and that his son will take over the battle against the no-God.

As for serwe. She was just delusional.[/quote:3itojhjd]

Hmm, a prophecy that Kellhus makes? I completely forgot that or i didnt read those pages well enough to understand that. Could you explain or point me to the scene/page?[/quote:3itojhjd]

I overlooked this post, however coming back to it now I must also reread the section, however if we are thinking of the same scene I believe it was not a Prophecy but rather he saw the possibility that he could die, via Probability trance, but then again you may be referring to a completely diffeent scene. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 20 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by shiva, Commoner

Given Kellhus' explanation to Akka about all souls being part of god, how many believeing him to be a prophet would be required to make it true?


Shiva view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 20 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Curethan, Didact

Those who believe see the haloes. In TTT even Akka sees them occaisionaly. The abilities of a prophet are mythical - so we don't know what Sejenus really could/could not do. The only example of hieromancy that I recall is the story where he restored a man's eyesight - which Xin used to illustrate that Kellhus was not a real prophet - because he could not heal.

As I recall it is stated somewhere that true prophecies are occasionally made when a great name is dying. The prophet Sejenus re-interpreted the Tusk - thus laying down the curcuit of men's lives for the next umpteen years - a different kind of prophecy if u see my meaning. As TTT comes to its conclusion Kellhus talks about how he will re-interpret the tusk - thus beginning a new era. In doing so he becomes a true prophet as well as aspect-emperor.

The beliefs of men shape the powers of the outside in reverse I believe - Akka explained to Cnaiur how the outside is able to leak in through the souls of those who become insane - and this is borne out when Cnauir himself has lost it and the Nansur who subdue him at Joktha see the aspect of Gilgaol - even as he speaks with that power's own voice in the fight. &quot;For a thousand years I have stalked you...&quot; etc

I'm not sure what to make of the no-god speaking to Kellhus. We know that Tsuramah is a construct of the Tekne, and it follows that he would be similar to the skin-spies in that he exists only within the circle of the world as they do - this would be consistent with his powers and purpose. The fact that he is dead kind of precludes him talking to anyone, except maybe as an echo - perhaps he exists in a nascent state as the Consult works to resurrect him, but I very much doubt that he is an active participant in the events that occur - you would exepct that he would be in contact with Aurax and Aurang before he went checking out Kellhus. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 22 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:3fxiwluc
........................

I'm not sure what to make of the no-god speaking to Kellhus. We know that Tsuramah is a construct of the Tekne, and it follows that he would be similar to the skin-spies in that he exists only within the circle of the world as they do - this would be consistent with his powers and purpose. The fact that he is dead kind of precludes him talking to anyone, except maybe as an echo - perhaps he exists in a nascent state as the Consult works to resurrect him, but I very much doubt that he is an active participant in the events that occur - you would exepct that he would be in contact with Aurax and Aurang before he went checking out Kellhus.[/quote:3fxiwluc]

Just to chime in on this point, we do not know that Tsurumah was solely a product of the Tekne. He was raised by the Consult, which then included the Inchoroi brothers, Mekeritrig, Shauriatis, and other unknown individuals (probably both men and non-men versed in Gnostic and aporetic? sorcery). The point is that there may be a sorcerous component to his being, even if Mog bore aporetic artefacts and was defeated by a technological (as far as we know) device. At the moment we simply don't know; if Kellhus has communicated with him somehow, he must surely have a reality beyond technology - certainly the phrase &quot;the soul that encounters him passes no further&quot;, which Achamian related, does not describe a technological device.

I wonder how he is going to be introduced? Wnen Achamian mused with Kellhus about the No-God's nature (in WP?) he (A) could not describe him (Mog) in any meaningful way. I think we are likely to see many rabbits out of hats in the Aspect emporer.

Just regarding Kellhus' status as a prophet, I feel that all our reservations about him should also be extended to Sejenus and Fane. Both of these latter may have been the artful hucksters that we suspect Kellhus is. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 22 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Curethan, Didact

It would be kinda illogical to seal the world from the outside using something that is itself connected to the outside. I guess that doesn't exclude the use of sorcery in Mog's manufacture, but my point was that he is highly unlikely to have any kind of existence beyond death - I see his resurrection more as a kind of 'repair job'. Yes, definitely more than a machine, but so are the skin-spies (Mog's just a few orders of magnitude beyond then again).

Kellhus can see the darkness that somes before - as he aproaches Kyudea this is explicitly described - and so maybe the comunication he has with the no-god is more like listening to his echoes... But then Kellhus also talks to the world at large - asking questions that he sees as being answered. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 22 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Harrol, Moderator

I believe that the Aurang refers to the no-god's coming as a summoning not a creating. Sure they made the shell protwcting Mog but they did not create him as I understand it. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 23 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by professor plum, Peralogue

That's definitely the impression I formed, Harrol. Sticking with my oversoul theory for now... view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 23 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;professor plum&quot;:27yeg68k
That's definitely the impression I formed, Harrol. Sticking with my oversoul theory for now...[/quote:27yeg68k]


I think you shoould probably repeat that theory, too many threads in the dim, distant past to which to trawl. We don't know of course that Scott B's own ideas on the No-God's are yet mature. view post


Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 24 June 2007 in Author Q &amp; AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by professor plum, Peralogue

Sure thing, anor. What follows is a copy/paste of a couple of posts I made in the &quot;Is Achamian the No God&quot; thread a few months back. Bit of a ramblefest, but maybe some food for thought nevertheless...

=====================

Long post follows. Could be a load of bollocks. You have been warned!

What do we know about the No-God?
His presence in the World prevents live human births (I recall a mention of &quot;the great cycle of souls&quot; being interrupted). He can control Sranc, Bashrag and Wracu &quot;as extensions of his own will&quot; (No-God, Encyclopedic Glossary, TTT). His armour is a carapace adorned with chorae, surrounded by a giant whirlwind. He seems either ignorant to his own nature or inordinately focused on others' perceptions of him (&quot;WHO AM I?&quot;; &quot;WHAT DO YOU SEE?&quot;) — I would assume the former, given that he has a habit of killing those in a position to answer his questions. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

The theory I'm toying with at the moment is that these attributes point to the No-God being the repository of souls, torn from the Outside and trapped within the Carapace via the Aporos, conveniently acting as both a defense and a prison. This theory seems (to me, anyway) to satisfy the &quot;why?&quot; questions about the No-God:

Why are there no live human births?
Easy: having a soul is necessary for human life. If all the souls are locked up in the Carapace...

Why is Mog-Pharau ignorant of his own nature?
Perhaps because self-awareness is new to him. Soulled beings in the World are self-aware, and quite possibly they are in the Outside, given the stuff about demons binding summoners for eternity after they bite the big one. But are they ever coerced into a single entity? Alternatively, Mog-as-Oversoul, residing in the Outside, may have always been as unknowing as we see him in the books*. Either way, as yet we still have no idea how the Consult bound him.

Why can he control Sranc, Bashrag and Wracu?
They are unsoulled. If Mog-Pharau is a vast bank of souls, given fledgling sentience by virtue of being thrust into the World... you can see where I'm going here. Put a bunch of Sranc near him and he can use his Soul Power (apologies to the late James Brown) to override their animal impulses — perhaps the mechanism involves assigning one Mog-Soul per Sranc. Why can't he do this to humans? They have souls, and while we know souls can be compelled via sorcery, we haven't seen anything to suggest that they can be overridden by other souls.

On something of a tangent, perhaps the Plains of Mengedda being haunted (by those slain in the final battle against the No-God during the Apocalypse) answers a question about where souls go when their usual egress from the World is closed. Into the ground? Where they stay, by the looks of things. (Or maybe I'm completely wrong, and the &quot;The land remembers&quot; interpretation offered by one of the characters holds. But that only raises further questions!)

Anyway, if I'm on to something with the above, I don't think any one character we've encountered will &quot;become&quot; the No-God (imagine Achamian speaking through the mouths of a thousand Sranc. &quot;COME TO ME, ESMI. KELLHUS, YOU ARE STILL A DICK&quot;).

*Perhaps this is why Kellhus perceives the No-God as he does. It's been a while since I read the last two books, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mog's described as being an old man sitting on a hill beneath a tree, still asking the same questions. Who knows, maybe Kellhus will avert the Second Apocalypse by figuring it all out and helping the No-God make sense of himself. 'Cause, like, man, what does he see, you know?

Other questions:
Why would the Scylvendi worship the No-God? Maybe someone convinced them they were damned. Maybe a God of Destruction aligned with their own inclinations just so. Maybe they bargained with the Consult for control of Kûniüri/Eämnor in return for worship and allegiance. Plenty of possibilities there.

But why would the Consult worship the No-God, ostensibly an entity either summoned and bound by them or an invention of their own devising? Here's my theory: we know Mog-Pharau is the key to their twisted brand of salvation. What if the Consult has realised that belief warps reality in Eärwa? If so, there's a strong incentive for them to at least appear to worship the No-God, so as to improve the chances of others (e.g., the Scylvendi) worshipping it too (as a greater number of worshippers would, presumably, increase the No-God's power). This raises another question — why set about eradicating soulled life instead of controlling it via religion? Perhaps they used the Scylvendi as a test case, or perhaps they reasoned that competing belief systems (which might reintroduce the promise of damnation) would inevitably reappear. Or maybe they just like all the blood and guts and slaughter. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Regarding the original post:

Quote: &quot;TWP,pg 12&quot;:3s4d5hbg

&quot;Who am I? he would often think, listening to Kellus's melodious voice. What do you see?&quot;
[/quote:3s4d5hbg]
In terms of awareness, how about &quot;Kellhus is to ordinary people as ordinary people are to the No-God&quot;? Achamian is in awe of the depth of Kellhus's perception, and this makes him question himself. The No-God seems to have the same reaction when encountering humans.

Spoiler for the final book of The Second Apocalypse (highlight):
No-God: &quot;WHO AM I? WHAT DO YOU SEE?&quot;
Kellhus: &quot;Search your feelings, bro.&quot;


=====================

I'm not sure we should simply assume that the No-God has destructive motivations of his own. If the No-God has been summoned from the Outside, is it a stretch to posit that he would be bound to the will of the Mangaecca, just as the ciphrang was bound to that of Iyokus?

Seems to me that if you were going to summon something that powerful, you'd make sure you'd be able to control it.

===================== view post


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