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The new craze posted 02 Oct 2006, 18:10 by Harrol, Moderator

What is going on with all these school shootings and attempted school shooting? It just does not make sense to me where does all this come from. view post


posted 02 Oct 2006, 20:10 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

ya there was a shooting at an amish school.. what the hell? people will blame guns. i blame working mothers. view post


posted 02 Oct 2006, 23:10 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Personally I blame spammers they drive people so crazy that they go out and shoot people what do you think happens to all the people who disappear off the board they are off blowing shit up and killing folks. view post


posted 03 Oct 2006, 04:10 by Hellscythe, Auditor

You know what it is? It is children continually being putting under an increasing burden by society to be perfect, to get good grades, to be popular and all that shit. Some of the kids just can take it anymore, so they take out there frustration violently. As for the adults, well, Im not sure bout them. view post


posted 03 Oct 2006, 05:10 by alhana, Auditor

These shootings seem to go in cycles. I remember that 1999 was a particulary bad year for school shootings too. One goes, then another, then another. One of the initial reports that I read late this afternoon seemed to indicate this one at the Amish school today could have been a copycat shooting. With each very vivid, very detailed news report about another shooting, we plant the seed of the idea in the next killer's mind. These people involved in these shootings probably gave out warning signs of their internal confusion, but no one listened. But our over-active US News Media gave them one last platform from which to rage at the world. They probably felt insignificant in life, but in the end they achieved notority. When one focuses on negative, negative is returned in kind. I rarely watch the news anymore for this reason. I do not want to dwell on the evil that will enivitably happen; I educate myself, but I leave out all the "bad news" that focuses only on what is going wrong and not what is going right. I "scan" headlines in various written forms throughout my day. I try not to focus on this kind of senseless and inconvicible violence but instead on what made the person behind it finally give up. What would have happened today if someone had given this man a word of encouragement or a kind deed? What if someone had thought to reach out to a hurting man and give him kindness or just even listened to him? Maybe everything would have still turned out the way it did, but maybe not. I will take the chance that my kindness and receptive attitudes toward others might make a difference so that if this kind of person came across my path maybe they would chose life instead of death. view post


posted 03 Oct 2006, 06:10 by vercint, Peralogue

I think it's got something to do with society's repressive views on things that can help relive the stress these kids are obviously feeling; namely sex, drugs, and alcohol. See, in societies with a liberal attitude to these largely harmless recreative activities (like in our beloved, godless Europe) such tragedies barely occur at all, whereas in more conservative places (like America and the Middle East), where said harmless recreations are frowned upon, ppl find other ways of expressing their frustrations. Such as shooting thier classmates, or blowing themselves and their neighbours to pieces... all depending on local customs, as well as the relative availability of firearms and explosive devices. view post


posted 03 Oct 2006, 12:10 by Harrol, Moderator

I agree that these are ways to express yourself i.e drugs, sex, drinking, shooting and blowing something up. I will also state that there are times when drinking becomes drunk or even buzzed when it is no longer harmless. Three years of doing shore patrol in the bar district showed me that first hand. Alhana is right to say that the children that do these things need someone to listen to them and be there for them which should be their parents or guardian. As far as I can see there is no program or initiative that will effectively take the place of parents. view post


posted 03 Oct 2006, 13:10 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

much of the problem is that too many people look for the wrong things in life. society has become so fuckin material that people can;t just be happy that they have family and friends, a roof and some food. they need more and more and MORE and they'll do whatever to get it, to hell with morals, generosity and compassion. fuck your neighbors, who cares about other people anyways? that's so old fashioned! in the past people had gratitude for what they received, but now people just have an expectation and it's pretty sickening. i think quite often about just picking up everything and moving to some tiny little house in the woods in hopes that i can raise my children to be caring and appreciative of what they have. because the problem isn;t the kids/teens.. it;'s the parents. they have ingrained these materialistic mindsets into their own children, showing that it's unnacceptable to be different, to have less than your neighbor, to do something for fun instead of money. bah! view post


posted 03 Oct 2006, 15:10 by Harrol, Moderator

True that! view post


posted 03 Oct 2006, 16:10 by Hellscythe, Auditor

Thats what I meant by my post, guys. It is society to blame for how these kids are being backed into a corner, becoming more and more burdened with higher and higher standards, more refined social obligations, like a string of a guitar thats gets twisted more and more until finally...it snaos... view post


posted 03 Oct 2006, 17:10 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

[quote="Hellscythe":1l3lsd97]Thats what I meant by my post, guys. It is society to blame for how these kids are being backed into a corner, becoming more and more burdened with higher and higher standards, more refined social obligations, like a string of a guitar thats gets twisted more and more until finally...it snaos...[/quote:1l3lsd97] it's a combination of that and mental problems. i was teased a lot. i didn;t have friends. i was different. i like violence and guns, and yet the thought of opening fire on even people that i hate is something that would never cross my mind (seriously, anyways... plotting is fun). there has to be something more to it. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 05:10 by Harrol, Moderator

It's okay G we won't make fun of you. In fact I'll be your friend just put down the chainsaw and the AK47. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 11:10 by Hellscythe, Auditor

:chuckles: I know what its like to be picked on. I was the fat kid at school, the one who played the trading card games (Magic :TheGathering). But, I never got it into my head to go shoot my tormentors. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 13:10 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

[quote="Harrol":1wywxcjh]It's okay G we won't make fun of you. In fact I'll be your friend just put down the chainsaw and the AK47.[/quote:1wywxcjh] automatic guns are for cowards. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 14:10 by Harrol, Moderator

I agree automatic weapons are for cowards or people who just do not have a lot of time. I was picked on a lot in school but it was due to the fact that I mouthed off a lot and went to about 15 different schools. I still never wanted to shoot everyone. That may have had to do with the fact that my step-mom stayed at home and my dad was around quite a bit. I had no time to plot killing people and I had the holy living fear of God toward my dad. He was not mean but go ahead and do something he told you not to do and you would deeply regret it. So I never had some of the problems that others have had. This molester guy in PA he was very ill and I do not know that good parents or much else outside of institutionalization could have help him. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 14:10 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

you know, i think a lot of this shit stems from the fact that we discourage violence of any kind. years ago, two boys would have a fight, and they'd give eachother black eyes, learn their lesson and become to best of friends. but now we say fighting is wrong in all cases, so these kids bottle it up, cos we haven;t taught them any other way to work out their problems. then bang, one decides to steal daddy's gun and take his revenge on the world. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 14:10 by alhana, Auditor

As with any problem of human behavior, this school shooting craze does not have one cause. It is about society, violence, the media lust for reporting violence, the decay of families, bulllying at school, too much free time for pre-adults, too little time to be kids, sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, the lack of a belief in Anything that gives hope, not letting boys be boys, mental health issues, and the general loss of innocence. As yet, there has not been a single female shooter. (I am sure next week there will be one just to prove me wrong.) The only common factor about all of the shootings, starting with the notorious McDonald's shooting in the 80s in Southern California to this week's Amish school massacare is that they were all male. Something is happening to the young men of the last two generations that is causing them to lose focus on reality and decide that violence is the only way. Women turn their rage inward and men turn their rage outward. We don't teach our sons how to express their rage in a healthy way...we just tell them not to fight. Until Society as a whole figures out a way to rescue our young men from the demons that plague them, they will continue to stage these very brutal and very public way to get the point across that they are angry at the world. With that, I am going to go make a cup of cocoa for my son and read him a story 8) view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 15:10 by Harrol, Moderator

Yeah my dad took me hunting that gives perspective. Oh and lets not forget hours of manual labor thats a great way to lose your rage. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 18:10 by Hellscythe, Auditor

Well hold on. Two of the shootings were by adults,whom, only after the fact, were found out to either have been sexually molested, or to have been a molestor (sp?) I mean, there is no truly effective way of helping these people, especially if they either arent caught, in the case of the latter, or, too afraid to come forward, in the case of the former. For the former, the fear of coming forward is most likely due to the fact that society, as a whole, looks differently on those who have been molested, and molestors themselves, because most of the time, one who molests another was most likely molested himself. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 19:10 by Peter, Auditor

[quote:2fgwn2ky]you know, i think a lot of this shit stems from the fact that we discourage violence of any kind. years ago, two boys would have a fight, and they'd give eachother black eyes, learn their lesson and become to best of friends. but now we say fighting is wrong in all cases, so these kids bottle it up, cos we haven;t taught them any other way to work out their problems[/quote:2fgwn2ky] I can see the point here, but I dunno... A couple of years ago I was sharing a house with some guys and one of them was military family, having the army pay his way through uni, going to Sandhurst (UK equivalent of West Point), and he truly believed that in school if he got into a disagreement with someone and they wouldn't see reason (or 'reason') it was perfectly legitimate for them to go at it with fists to settle, well I am not sure what, who was right, who was top dog... Now to me this is obviously more civilised than taking a gun and shooting people, but it hardly seems a reasonable attitude to life. If it is an argument, then violence does not determine right, and hence is irrelevant, and if it is just about vying for social supremacy then it seems particularly backward and bestial (in the way that certain animals fight for supremacy, killing and maiming their opponants). I am not sure I can really complain about the attitude that promotes the view that all violence is wrong, if men find then that they need to take guns to their problems, then that is their failing and not that of the attitude. Having said this I am not advocating the view that a few school shootings is an acceptable cost for ideological purity, rather that if we are presented with two options both of which seem wrong, we should seek for an alternative which is not, i.e. how can we channel and control this violence, stop the factors which ostracise people and drive them to such acts. We could, in theory, attach explosive neck braces to all males and simply detonate them whenever something like this happens, that would be a solution, but most people would rather find some other option, and so we could attempt to encourage young men to work out their anger in fighting each other, but perhaps we should be looking at other ways of dealing with the problem. On a final note, awful as these shootings have been, similar things happen in Africa every year (and probably every day), and yet there is not the same interest. Young men (indeed so young as to be only boys often) there seem to have the shooting people (often other young people) market quite stitched up. I am not arguing for a downgrading of the importance of school shootings, but rather an upgrading of such deaths elsewhere. It's all very depressing. view post


posted 04 Oct 2006, 20:10 by Harrol, Moderator

I agree hellscythe unless someone seeks help in those cases it is hard to help them or even predict what they are going to do. Peter is right it happens all the time in Africa and it is depressing. view post


posted 05 Oct 2006, 13:10 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

those are very good points, peter, and i didn;t mean to suggest that violence is an answer in all, or even most cases. obviously there has to be some better solution, but it's so against our nature. remember that humans [i:w6iqu76n]are[/i:w6iqu76n] animals, we have it in our blood to strive the be the most powerful. just because we've replaced fighting with elections does not mean all those intincts are just gonna disappear. still, a lot of it can probably be solved with good parenting. i was only half kidding when i said i blame it on working mothers. i don;t see many stay-at-home mothers anymore, and i beleive that's part of the problem. children don't get the attention they need from mum and dad because no ones home, so they are in daycare and are lost in a crowd of other kids that all need the same thing. attention. they need to know that their the centre of someone's life, and when parents are never around, how will they get that? so as they get older, daycare is replaced by tv and video games. still, the parents don;t do anything with them and leave them to their own devices and they act out. that's over simplifying it, there are obviously other mental issues in play when a person is messed up enough to pull the trigger on their peers. view post


posted 05 Oct 2006, 14:10 by Harrol, Moderator

There is no doubt in my mind that negligence in parenting has a lot to do with it. Also the prevailing mentality of hurray for me to hell with you is caused by the lack of community. I do not believe you can have a proper functioning community without a family structure to build it off of. When I say a family structure that is to say both parent are actively involved. view post


posted 05 Oct 2006, 16:10 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

absolutely.. i'm still working through issues i have with my mum, cos she wasn;t much of a mother. i can only imagine how messed up someone can get from having terribly negligent parents. i'd like to hope that my living in a large city has something to do with it. but i have lived in much smaller cities, and it's no different, possibly worse. in small towns there's not much to do besides drink and fuck, and negligent teens do not good parents make. and so the cycle continues. view post


posted 05 Oct 2006, 22:10 by Hellscythe, Auditor

Well, Im sure Ive told you guys on other threads, but I live in Queens, NY. About as close you can get to Manhattan without living there. My neighborhood is pretty safe, havent had any shootings or stuff like that. Anyway, my point is is that there are alot of kids at the nearby junior high school (6-8th grades ), and fights happen outside of the school. But we never had anything happen there like the shootings in Colorado and Pennsylvania. view post


posted 05 Oct 2006, 23:10 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

A problem that most schools have is the strictness on fighting, by stopping fights and discouraging that kind of behavior students bottle up all of there emotions to the point where they take out that anger in a much worse way, Id say fighting is quite healthy at least mentally and stops violence from escalating to guns. view post


posted 06 Oct 2006, 03:10 by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

I blmae the effing PTA and the people in and around the PTA and the people who act upon PTA standards and practices. has anyone seen the movie donnie darko? that's all i'm saying right now because i'm pissed. view post


posted 06 Oct 2006, 03:10 by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

[quote="Warrior-Poet":3qitxc8w]A problem that most schools have is the strictness on fighting, by stopping fights and discouraging that kind of behavior students bottle up all of there emotions to the point where they take out that anger in a much worse way, Id say fighting is quite healthy at least mentally and stops violence from escalating to guns.[/quote:3qitxc8w] thank you, thats exactly what i mean view post


posted 06 Oct 2006, 12:10 by Harrol, Moderator

Well maybe they do need to let children sometimes solve their own problems. I do have a hard time just letting kids fight though. I teach youth group at church to kids off the street. They try to get into fights ever so often but I always stop them. If a child is scared than they can not really enjoy themselves and learn what they came to learn. On the other hand when I was in school I must have been in 25-30 fights. Looking back on it I would never recommend that to anyone. view post


posted 06 Oct 2006, 15:10 by Hellscythe, Auditor

I only got into two when I was in school. One was to protect a pair of sixth-graders from about two dozen other six-graders, who were taunting and cursing at the pair. I dont know why there were doing it, but me and my bro told them to lay off, and when they didnt, fists flew. It lasted about 10 minutes, stopping when an old lady came out and said " get the fuck out of here you stupid spics" Those are her exact words, and Im Italian, so you know who she was talking to. The second fight was due to the insensitive ways of one of the"popular" kids in my class. view post


posted 06 Oct 2006, 18:10 by Harrol, Moderator

Mine were due to my big mouth and my inability to walk away. I was so stubborn back then. Oh wait I am still stubborn I just do not fight any more, of course I am 30 and you just do not do that at my age. view post


posted 06 Oct 2006, 19:10 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

[quote="Harrol":1wyfyx2m]of course I am 30 and you just do not do that at my age.[/quote:1wyfyx2m] at least not without a good reason. 30's too young to be that mature. view post


posted 06 Oct 2006, 19:10 by Harrol, Moderator

True enough if the need is absolutely there I will not hold back. view post


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