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Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 08 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Scariot, Commoner

I was wiki'ing some of the terms used in tPON and I thought the definition for Heresiarch was kind of interesting. According to Wikipedia, a heresiarch is more or less the leader of a heretical movement. Modern usage of this word in particular associates 'heretical' as being opposed to the Roman Catholic church.

With numerous parallels being drawn throughout tPON relating the Inrithi factions with western Christian terms and connecting the Fanim to more Islamic and Arabic terminology (such as 'crusade' for the Inrithi and 'jihad' for the Fanim, or even the respective geographies and appearances of the two factions), I thought it was very subtle that Scott would give the leader of the 'heathen' Cishaurim such a fitting title.

Has anyone else noticed other words used in tPON series that are more than they seem at first glance? view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 29 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by brandon, Candidate

No other words i can think of. In some ways the fanim are the christian type faith, but its followers and the majority of the followers of inrithism look the same, ie brown skin, black hair and dark eyes. They're the same race, different religion (and clothes). view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 29 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Quote: "brandon":32xc6os1
No other words i can think of. In some ways the fanim are the christian type faith, but its followers and the majority of the followers of inrithism look the same, ie brown skin, black hair and dark eyes. They're the same race, different religion (and clothes).[/quote:32xc6os1]

The Fanim are really based more on Islam than Christianity. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 29 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I suppose it could be argued that the Fanim are more closely Christian than the Inrithi on the fact that the Fanim worship the Solitary God meaning monotheistic, where the Inrithi have many deities and such being a bit on the polytheistic side, both religions however have a prophet Fane for Fanimry and Inri Sejenus for the Inrithi. I usually tend to agree with Entropic on this but i can see where others can have different opinions. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 30 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Murrin, Peralogue

The pure monotheism of the Fanim also lends to them being based on islam, with their Solitary God being like the muslim god, while Inrithism has a god who has multiple forms, as well as many minor entities receiving worship--in the sense of the christian Trinity and all the saints and angels. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 30 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Which is why I usually agree with Entropic and yourself I was just saying that I see where other people have different opinions. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 31 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Harrol, Moderator

I will argue that the fanim are more like Christianity than the Inrithi based on the fact that I myself and many other do not worship saints or angels and the point that There is no Biblical Trinity or worship of the other previous mentioned. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 31 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Dagda, Commoner

Quote: "Harrol":326kzkeb
I will argue that the fanim are more like Christianity than the Inrithi based on the fact that I myself and many other do not worship saints or angels and the point that There is no Biblical Trinity or worship of the other previous mentioned.[/quote:326kzkeb]

The books are based on the First Crusade's orginization and leadership, so even if the religions are created, Inrithi are the Euorpean/Greek contigient, and the Famin are the Arab/Kurd/Turkic group.

Dagda view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 31 July 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Dagda, Commoner

Quote: "Scariot":18s99ueu
I was wiki'ing some of the terms used in tPON and I thought the definition for Heresiarch was kind of interesting. According to Wikipedia, a heresiarch is more or less the leader of a heretical movement. Modern usage of this word in particular associates 'heretical' as being opposed to the Roman Catholic church.

With numerous parallels being drawn throughout tPON relating the Inrithi factions with western Christian terms and connecting the Fanim to more Islamic and Arabic terminology (such as 'crusade' for the Inrithi and 'jihad' for the Fanim, or even the respective geographies and appearances of the two factions), I thought it was very subtle that Scott would give the leader of the 'heathen' Cishaurim such a fitting title.

Has anyone else noticed other words used in tPON series that are more than they seem at first glance?[/quote:18s99ueu]


I was wondering if the Cishaurim was related to al-Hasan ibn-al-Sabbah ( The Old Man of the Mountain ) and the Hassasians. It would relate to the Cruisades.

Dagda view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 07 August 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

I was wiki'ing some of the terms used in tPON and I thought the definition for Heresiarch was kind of interesting. According to Wikipedia, a heresiarch is more or less the leader of a heretical movement. Modern usage of this word in particular associates 'heretical' as being opposed to the Roman Catholic church.

With numerous parallels being drawn throughout tPON relating the Inrithi factions with western Christian terms and connecting the Fanim to more Islamic and Arabic terminology (such as 'crusade' for the Inrithi and 'jihad' for the Fanim, or even the respective geographies and appearances of the two factions), I thought it was very subtle that Scott would give the leader of the 'heathen' Cishaurim such a fitting title.

Has anyone else noticed other words used in tPON series that are more than they seem at first glance?



I can only think of one.

Achaemenes - Founder and King of Achaemenid Dynsaty of Ancient Persia
It is my assumption that Achamian's name was derived from this guy. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 07 August 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by noodles0585, Peralogue

i have to agree that the fanim indeed do seem to be islamic in nature and the inrithi seem to be christanity in nature. it also seems that many of the scripture that are used from the tusk seem similar to the old testament but in truth because i can't seem to recall the fanim being quoted i can't say how similar it would be to the quran but my guess is that there would be some similarities. when i say scripture from the tusk i mean for an example like when kellhus is sentenced and they decide to do it according to scripture "when a man claims to be a prophet, hear him out and if he speaks truly then acclaim him for he is clean but if he speaks untruly the bound him to the corpse of his wife and hang him one cubit above the ground for he is unclean" that sounds like the old testament to me. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 31 August 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Cynical Cat, Auditor

Quote: "Harrol":2dqmxujf
I will argue that the fanim are more like Christianity than the Inrithi based on the fact that I myself and many other do not worship saints or angels and the point that There is no Biblical Trinity or worship of the other previous mentioned.[/quote:2dqmxujf]

It is important to note that the parellel is between medieval Christian practice and Inthrism, not modern Christian practices, which aside from the variations, are quite different. Medieval Christianity was theoretically monotheistic, but polytheistic in practice. Towns and villages had their own patron saint or angel that was prayed to as an intercessor between the worshipper and God. That is why pilgrimages (visitng the remains of famous saints), relics, and so forth were so important in the medieval period and why certain holidays associated with saints still survive in the modern era. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 01 September 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by alhana, Auditor

I saw a parallel between "crucifix" of Christianity upon which Jesus Christ was put to death by the Romans and "circumfix" that Kellhus was placed upon to die.

I believe that Bakker intentionally wrote the details of the two religious factions vauge to illustrate that at the root of religions, like Christianity and Islam, there is really not much difference. A couple hundred years ago different European factions of Christianity were burning each other at the stake, even though they all believed in the teachings of Jesus Christ. As in the world of Earwe, any time there is a "holy war" or "jihad" it is less about the details of doctrine and more about the placement of power. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 19 September 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by alhana, Auditor

Last night as I was looking over some of the passages at the end of TTT when Kellhus and his father are talking, it occurred to me there is another "biblical" parralel here. In the book of Genesis, two mighty nations begin a conflict that stretches to the present age and was conceived in the birth of two sets of brothers. The first was Ishamel, the father of the nations who are Arabic today and Issac, who became the heir to Abraham's nation of "the chosen people." The second set of brothers were Esau, who was first born twin to Issac but was denied his birthright for Jacob who later became known as Israel. Legend has it that Esau may have joined forces with the tribes of Ishamel when he was denied his birthright.

Ishamel represents a people who were cast out. Ishamel's mother was a maidservant given to Abraham by his wife Sarah because she could not conceive. Later when Sarah became pregnant and bore her own son, she got jealous of the son by another woman and Abraham sent Ishamel and his mother into the desert. Ishamel had the right to claim Abraham's inheritance, but he was denied it and left to die. He was saved by an angel who gave them water and then they were rescued by a tribe of nomads. Some speculate that this event sparked the intial anomosity between the two tribes of Abraham, the Muslims and the Jews.

I wonder if when Esmi's baby is born, if the reminder of Serwe will poison her mind and if she will fear for the "position" of her own son and ask that Moehengus be removed from the family. I think some sort of power struggle between these two sons will happen at some point and could have some similarities to these biblical siblings. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 20 September 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by anor277, Didact

Quote: "alhana":dqn2yijy
................

I wonder if when Esmi's baby is born, if the reminder of Serwe will poison her mind and if she will fear for the "position" of her own son and ask that Moehengus be removed from the family. I think some sort of power struggle between these two sons will happen at some point and could have some similarities to these biblical siblings.[/quote:dqn2yijy]

To continue the biblical parallel, in 20 years time Kellhus would have probably sired more bastards than Methuselah. Anyway, Moenghus is almost certainly not Kellhus' natural son, but Cnaiur's. All Kellhus future offspring (and Moenghus), however many they are, will probably be extensions of Kellhus' will - Kellhus is still the seeing man in the kingdom of the blind. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 21 September 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

As an aside, I always sympathized with Haggar (sp?). She was totally screwed over (as was Ishmael). It was Sarah's suggestion that Abe take a cocubine in the FIRST PLACE. Then when she has a baby, she just sends the poor concubine into the desert to die? - with her BABY!

Bitch. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 14 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by RazorSmile, Candidate

To continue the biblical parallel, in 20 years time Kellhus would have probably sired more bastards than Methuselah. Anyway, Moenghus is almost certainly not Kellhus' natural son, but Cnaiur's. All Kellhus future offspring (and Moenghus), however many they are, will probably be extensions of Kellhus' will - Kellhus is still the seeing man in the kingdom of the blind.


I don't know if this counts as thread necromancy (after all, the trilogy won't be continuing for a while) but you might have gotten some names mixed up there. I'm pretty sure Moenghus isn't Cnaiur's son - or Kellhus' for that matter. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 14 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by anor277, Didact

Quote: "RazorSmile":omo52588
To continue the biblical parallel, in 20 years time Kellhus would have probably sired more bastards than Methuselah. Anyway, Moenghus is almost certainly not Kellhus' natural son, but Cnaiur's. All Kellhus future offspring (and Moenghus), however many they are, will probably be extensions of Kellhus' will - Kellhus is still the seeing man in the kingdom of the blind.


I don't know if this counts as thread necromancy (after all, the trilogy won't be continuing for a while) but you might have gotten some names mixed up there. I'm pretty sure Moenghus isn't Cnaiur's son - or Kellhus' for that matter.[/quote:omo52588]

Do you mean Moenghus (the child that Serwe bore, whose father was almost certainly Cnaiur but whose paternity she attributed to Kellhus) or Moenghus, Kellhus' father? As you know one's dead (arguably) and the other is a baby. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 14 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by RazorSmile, Candidate

Oh. That Moenghus.

Jeez <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> [size=75:3po5vnu5]What a disgraceful start to my membership ...[/size:3po5vnu5]

Yeah, I was referring to the adult (and presumably very very dead) one. My bad. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 14 February 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Yeah, I was referring to the adult (and presumably very very dead) one. My bad.


You might also find that their is a debate among a few members on whether or not Moenghus(adult) is actually dead, as for the the small blunder dont worry too much about it Id say just about everyone on this board has made a mistake at some point or another. view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 20 June 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by 1gunners4, Commoner

Hey guys, first post. Hurray!

Anyways, I think Bakker makes it pretty clear which side he associates with Christianity. The easiest clue is, of course, their Prophet: Inri Sejenus. Breaking down his name we get:

I.N.R.I., or &quot;IESVS NAZARENVS REX IVDAEORVM&quot; (&quot;Jesus of Nazarene, King of the Jews), the phrase that was nailed to the top of Jesus' cross.

Sejenus is spelled and phoenetically sounds (at least to me) almost exactly like Sejanus, a former Roman Consul and at one point probably the most powerful citizen of Rome. His connection with Jesus is that many speculate him to be the man that appointed Pontius Pilate, who is the governor that essentially sentenced Jesus to crucifixion, though he may or may not have just given him over to the Jews to do it.

The first is easily the strongest evidence, and though the latter Sejenus connection may just be a literary form of &quot;Six Degrees&quot;, I think it shows that both are actually linked to Jesus in some way.

Oh! As an added bonus for the &quot;Sejanus&quot; Bakker connection, Sejanus served as Consul along with Tiberius, with Sejanus having consolodated the power of Tiberius' now dead son in the Senate. The name of his son? Drusus. Drusus, Drusas, this alone wouldn't be too much, but added with the Sejanus/Sejenus aspect I find it pretty convincing.


Let's see... what other connections did I find (or at least think I did)...

Ikurei Conphas. Drop the last part of the surname (Ikurei) and the first part of Conphas and you are left with &quot;Ikuras&quot;, or &quot;Icarus&quot;, the Greek story about a man and his son who flew on wax wings to close to the sun and the Icarus' wings melted and he plummeted to his death. A fairly good allegory to the story of Conphas, a man who fancied himself a God and was struck down (literally). Granted, this is also probably a huuuuuge stretch, but it definitely seems that Dr. Backker knows his Greek and Roman history/mythology.

Sorry if this has all been convered before; I just finished TTT last night so I thought I'd share! view post


Heresiarch of the Cishaurim posted 20 June 2007 in The Thousandfold ThoughtHeresiarch of the Cishaurim by Harrol, Moderator

That was an interesting post. The INRI part has been discussed before but the part on Conphas has not been mentioned as far as I can remember. view post


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