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Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Kidruhil Lancer, Auditor

So, I work at a hotel. And I just finished checking in a guy who's in the marine core. Now, we do give lower rates to active military. The rate that I quoted, however, didn't seem good enough for this gentleman. So, he gives me this line.

"Come on, I know you got a lower rate for a guy who's been to Iraq twice."

My question is...

Why should a soldier who 1) volunteered, and 2) isn't fighting a necessary war get special treatment? I respect that he's a member of the military, and I even respect that he's seen combat. I just don't feel that going to Iraq entitles him to any special treatment above and beyond what a normal military officer gets who hasn't gone to Iraq. It would be different if Iraq had attacked us, or if we were fighting for our lives, but neither of these is true. We didn't even have a good reason for going into Iraq. Even if Sadam HAD weapons of mass destruction.. so do several other countries who don't like us. The treatment of the Iraqi's isn't even a good reason when you take into account the much worse treatment of African people in the war-lord ruled countries like Somalia.

Anyway, I just wanted to get some opinions/reactions to this. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Harrol, Moderator

Truthfully the guy just wanted a cheaper room. I seriously doubt that he truly feels entitled to a better rate. I believe he was hoping that you would feel he was entitled to a cheaper rate. Some people are always shopping for a bargain and will say whatever to get that bargain. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

Quote: "Kidruhil Lancer":2vyvyogs
So, I work at a hotel. And I just finished checking in a guy who's in the marine core. Now, we do give lower rates to active military. The rate that I quoted, however, didn't seem good enough for this gentleman. So, he gives me this line.

"Come on, I know you got a lower rate for a guy who's been to Iraq twice."

My question is...

Why should a soldier who 1) volunteered, and 2) isn't fighting a necessary war get special treatment? I respect that he's a member of the military, and I even respect that he's seen combat. I just don't feel that going to Iraq entitles him to any special treatment above and beyond what a normal military officer gets who hasn't gone to Iraq. It would be different if Iraq had attacked us, or if we were fighting for our lives, but neither of these is true. We didn't even have a good reason for going into Iraq. Even if Sadam HAD weapons of mass destruction.. so do several other countries who don't like us. The treatment of the Iraqi's isn't even a good reason when you take into account the much worse treatment of African people in the war-lord ruled countries like Somalia.

Anyway, I just wanted to get some opinions/reactions to this.[/quote:2vyvyogs]

I'm curious to know how you responded to that statement.

Personally I'm all for giving soldiers (especially combat soldiers) special treatment when they return home and I think the fact that he volunteered for the service is fantastic! I do however feel that things get shady when you consider the fact that this war in particular is rather unnecessary (IMO).

Maybe he was just fishing for a bargain, but there are those, who didn't see combat, that actually expect you to all but worship them because of their contribution. Rest assured that it is appreciated... more or less, but I do feel that the complications regarding why we're there are hard to brush aside altogether so that we can show proper respect.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I agree with you but I don't think we get to choose what wars we give our soldiers special treatment for. If we give special treatment at all, and I think we should, then it has to be across-the-board. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Before making my supreme statement on this topic I am curious on who on the board has had someone close to them serve in the military or Iraq. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Sokar, Auditor

Am I happy not to be American and be bothered by this (my apologies) non-sense! view post


Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

That's because you're a self-centered, egotistical, uber-liberal hippie whose secretly funding terrorism!

I say we bomb Sokar and his adulturate nation and spend the next decade implementing a modern, civilized nation where everyone, subsequently, aspires to be as great as the U.S.!

And though I have a few of family members currently serving in various branches of the armed forces (one in Iraq, one in Afghanistan and one on border patrol in Texas) no, I don't have anyone &quot;close&quot; to me serving in the military. Why do you ask? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Jus to see where peoples opinions are coming from. Im sure people who have noone close to them in the armed forces are goin to have different opinions than someone who does personally I think anyone who has served his nation should be treated as royalty regardless if the war was the right thing to do. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Harrol, Moderator

Jus to see where peoples opinions are coming from. Im sure people who have noone close to them in the armed forces are goin to have different opinions than someone who does personally I think anyone who has served his nation should be treated as royalty regardless if the war was the right thing to do.


Well WP I look forward to you treating me like royalty I served for six years in the Navy and will be joining the National Guard here shortly. <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: --> Seriously I do not expect special treatment but of course I was never where the Iraqi's could shoot at me. I will say that floating around the Persian Gulf in 120 degree weather is no fun and the occasional harassment by the Irainians is annoying. The way I see it is this. If somone wants to show special consideration to military people then great and if not great. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 21 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

ALL HAIL HARROL THE FIRST! No really I just think service men and women deserve a little respect. Even though you may not respect the war or agree with it the soldiers are still over there fighting. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 22 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Primal, Peralogue

Fucking shit. What a milker.

Btw, a marine's two tours to iraq are less than one normal tour of a soldier's(in the military, &quot;soldier&quot; refers specifically to the general army, while &quot;marine&quot; or &quot;trooper&quot; refers to marine (trooper refers to all armed forces: army, airforce, navy, marine)). I know soldiers who have served in iraq for two years or more, and I'm sure they've been involved in more shit than that marine, yet they do not ask for nor need any kind of special treatment. This marine's behavior is not typical of other armed forces member.

Go ahead and make your supreme statement Warrior-Poet. =]
I'll post recommendations base on firsthand experience (that's all I can say about my status). view post


Modern Soldiers posted 22 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Kidruhil Lancer, Auditor

All very good opinions. And I'm all for giving soldiers respect for being in the military, and even for seeing combat. I was just making the point that he shouldn't get special treatment for being in combat when compared to other soldiers who haven't seen combat.

And I responded (as per my employee script) by telling him that the computer wouldn't let me give him anything lower than the rate he was already getting. *Snickers.* view post


Modern Soldiers posted 22 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Scilvenas, Auditor

Navy. 8 years active duty, currently in the inactive reserves until my job pays the difference in drill pay. I also did my time doing circles in the Red Sea in the middle of the summer (JTF HoA). Fun times.

Fuckin' military discount. Give me a break. Nobody really gives a shit when it comes to their own $$$. We give people better discounts because they're old or belong to fucking AAA. Hell, places will advertise a damn student discount, but you have to practically beg to get a military discount (&quot;Welcome to North Carolina, America's Most Military Friendly State&quot;... yeah, only place I've seen a discount is at the Army surpluss store). Face it, more money's been made selling yellow ribbon magnets and little flags than has been 'given away' in military discounts... by several orders of magnitude.

It's the serviceman's lot (I've never been called a trooper, and I think I'd laugh my ass off if I ever was... heh, you groundpounders...) to just deal with it. Don't want to go to Iraq? Too bad. Want to see your kid be born. Sorry, buddy. Want a better discount? Pfff, what incentive do I have to give you one? But watch the local businesses scramble when they hear about a base shutting down.

BTW, it's Marine Corps, though 'jarheads' will suffice. Sure, most of 'em are dumb as rocks and half as much fun to be around, but you think that guy really has anything to do with the shit you're talking about? If anything, you shoulda given him the discount simply because they love to fight and an arrogant attitude like that would've been more than enough to set most of 'em off.

What'd you do, offer lamely that the computer won't let you (&lt;edit&gt;hahahahaha. you did!... played the dumb clerk who can't do crap without a computer.... ooh, what power you wield! Well, he's a marine, so he probably bought it)? Christ, you're in the hotel business. You know you don't g-e-t if you don't a-s-k. Personally, I've gotten a better price at hotels by asking for the 'Manager's Discount' than the military one... which was pointed out to me by a friendly (and cute) hotel clerk.

Thankfully, I now have a job that pays well enough that I don't have to try to cut every little corner I can to keep my family fed and clothed. I no longer have to feel like I'm begging to just get a good deal (and that's all it is; I always wore my hair at reg's max and regular clothes and all that so people wouldn't treat me differently).

Being the lazy squid I am, and having been stationed at several joint commands (and having friends in every service), if it came to being deployed with the Marines or the Army... please, God, send me with the Army. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 22 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Kidruhil Lancer, Auditor

Okay. Wow. Setting aside the hostility, our military discount is actually much better than AAA or AARP. (73.26 for AAA compared to 60.50 for military.) The only way he could have gotten a lower rate was if he was a commercial truck driver (we give lower rates to them because they supply 60% of our business.) And the reason I played dumb was because it was 2 in the morning and I didn't feel like getting this guy pissed off. There really was nothing I could do for him as far as the rates go. He had the lowest rate available to a non-driver.

And I wasn't saying anything negative about soldiers as a whole. As I said, I have no problem with them getting respect and a discount. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 22 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Scilvenas, Auditor

First, I apologize for the hostility. I was considering going back and editing it for that very reason. I meant to be more gruff than anything else, and as I don't really know you, KL, I have nothing against you (and the fact that you like Bakker is a point in your favor).. With the snickering and all, though... unless you're as big of a fan of the candy bar as I am? *cadburry eggs*

My problem really is about military discounts. Take your example (like I said, mine were just from personal examples... for instance, United once quoted my flight with the military discount about $100 higher than my first, non-discounted quote. shit you not). Why couldn't a servicemember get the same discount? Sure, the truckdrivers have to be catered to, but if the military clientelle is so insignificant, what would it hurt... unless we're only paying token respect. Hell, at least the truck driver can write off the expense on his taxes. This guy's just trying to get a little RnR (otherwise, the govt. would be footing the bill and he wouldn't care). It's not like he thinks there really is a button on your computer that reads &quot;2x Iraq Discount.&quot; He's just seeing if you cared enough to put a little extra effort into it. Obviously, you didn't. *shrugs* Your prerogative. But don't ask me to pat you on the back for it, especially when it seems to be in support of an agenda (most of which I actually agree with, btw) you wouldn't tell him (which would actually get you mad respect in my book, for what that's worth) but feel ok putting out there to a faceless online group.

And yeah, I probably sound like an ingrate, like the world should bow and scrape to people in the military. No, I'm happy getting any kind of a discount, and I think military service doesn't automatically entitle you to any special treatment. But when you see so much lip service paid to how great 'those brave young men and women' are, and how little is done, especially in comparison to other special interests... well, it gets a bit annoying. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 22 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Kidruhil Lancer, Auditor

Okay well, the comments about the war weren't actually going through my head at the time I checked the guy in. They were mostly unrelated comments based on my opinion of the war, rather than my opinion of the guy checking in. And I really would have helped him if I could. (I'm not really sure where the *snicker* came from.. but it was probably inapropriate.) But the fact remains that he was getting a pretty low rate, and I couldn't go any lower without getting in trouble.

I agree with your other points though. I think we (the hotel I work for) has a fairly good military discount, and frankly other businesses should follow the same path. It's certainly not right to make someone pay MORE for being in the military. That's just crap. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 22 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Curethan, Didact

&quot;Always offer soldiers (and anyone else who is trained to kill) servile respect. Use caution when deciding how badly they want that discount.&quot;

_Curethan's &quot;Guide to Longevity&quot; view post


Modern Soldiers posted 22 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

BRILLIANT!

<!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: --> view post


Modern Soldiers posted 23 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Xray the Enforcer, Auditor

Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:38vrzg8a
&quot;Always offer soldiers (and anyone else who is trained to kill) servile respect. Use caution when deciding how badly they want that discount.&quot;

_Curethan's &quot;Guide to Longevity&quot;[/quote:38vrzg8a]

LOL. Wise words, for an eyeball. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


Modern Soldiers posted 24 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Primal, Peralogue

Scilvenas,

as a seaman, you've interacted with marines before.You know what they are like. They treat you like they're your daddy, when they're the ones who were conceived out of you.

It's fine that the marine Kidruhil spoke of wanted a discount. I don't have a problem with people wanting discounts. But the fact is, he was already receiving a discount - a &quot;military discount&quot;. Look at this marine's attitude and demeanor. By saying &quot;Come on, I know you got a lower rate for a guy who's been to Iraq twice&quot; he's dissing on all other military members, and also trying to milk it. You were in the middle of the ocean stuck on a piece of floating steel--does that make you any less or entitled to less than that marine who served in iraq on two tours? One marine tour is 6months or less. Less if you subtract the 2-3 weeks coming in and 2-3 weeks going out.

Another thing too, I hate people who try to glorify shit. It usually means one of two things. One, they've never been in a life-threatening situation to them and their fellow members; so they don't have that experience to know they don't want to have that experience again, and they appreciate their life and what they have. This guy obviously didn't appreciate the military discount he was already privileged to receive. Two, they've got prime ego narcissism. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 25 June 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Scilvenas, Auditor

Oh yeah, I know all about marines. Granted, a few of them were friends of mine, but by and large... jarheads.

As far as comparative service goes... I'm not exactly the most humble guy, but I gotta give respect to the guys that spend a couple years sucking sand. Sure, doing circles in the Red on a 30 year-old piece of tin (USS Mt. Whitney) wasn't any fun, but the worst I had to worry about is a dumb-ass IT messing up the gear I have to fix.

If he says he's been there twice, f*** it, who am I to judge? Is he milking it? Certainly, but you know even we put up with more than enough s*** on a daily basis to deserve a few breaks every now and then. Who can blame someone for trying to get a better deal (especially with hotel and travel... you really gotta wheel and deal those guys. otherwise...)? Now, if he was being belligerant about it, and I've seen plenty of those types in and out of uniform, it's a different story. view post


Modern Soldiers posted 08 July 2006 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by alhana, Auditor

Those who have the most right to brag, rarely do so.

My father was DRAFTED to Viet Nam. He was a college graduate, but from a very poor farmer family. He didn't have the connections to get him out of the country or to get him a desireable assignment. He is flat footed (makes his feet weak for marching) and legally blind in his right eye (he can't fire at a target for shit). If he had been alive during WWII, they would not have even let him volunteer to fight. However, he is a humble man. He never bragged about his service, he was not proud of being involved in that conflict. Yet, it made him stronger. He always hated guns and he doesn't even hunt. They tried to make him an officer, but he washed out of OT, which actually saved his life, as 2nd Lt. had the highest causality rate of all officers. Another stroke of good fortune that saved him from the Insanity of the Jungle was that they needed a clerk and because he had been to college, they traded his gun for typewriter when he landed in Nam. He got to live out the horrors of this war by typing field records, death certificates, and family notifications.

This gentle man came home from Viet Nam and landed in California in 1969. He did not kill a single person in Viet Nam. He didn't even want to be there. Yet after getting off the plane in San Diego, he had to ride the bus to Northern California to meet his fiance in San Fransico. A woman sat next to him on the whole trip and cursed at him, calling him a baby killer and a rapist. He said nothing as he rode, knowing that this woman was venting her own anger at something she did not understand.

He courted my mother by letters that crossed the Pacific Ocean. He only speaks of these things when I ask and even then he is still guarded. He cried about this once in public, when my brother took him to see the Traveling Wall Monument. He has never taken any of the discounts or benefits he could get as a veteren. I think he would rather forget about the inhumanity of this war than require others to acknowledge his sacrifice by giving him discounts and acolades. I think that our servicemen and women deserve our respect and I think we are much better about giving them appreciation for what they do. But those who have to ask and make a point of their &quot;service&quot; make light of those who truly deserve and do not ask. view post


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