the archives

dusted off in read-only

  •  

Anasurimbur Uncertainty/Agoraphobia Principle posted 19 Apr 2006, 16:04 by n0g0d, Candidate

[b:2r2bosfp][u:2r2bosfp]This is something I wanted to post in Q&A in EEs post but then realized it was the wrong thread so I just made up a title[/u:2r2bosfp][/b:2r2bosfp] Damnation would be an outside agency. Something that they do not understand or have no control on. As EE said it is the ultimate wild card. TTT seems to bypass the Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle as things like Damnation and so on seem to get an answer. Something like a religion...with a lot of universalistic philosophy. I suppose there could be a logic to the physical and spiritual but the Dunayn are not very open to the latter as it is not something they were conditioned for. The Dunayn are not[b:2r2bosfp] well informed people [/b:2r2bosfp]and tend to have a phobia for things that they have not been able to infer on their own through logic within their fortress. Anasurimbur Conditioned Agoraphobia? Even Kellhus's first encounter with Merketrig was an example of that. They do not seem to understand what the soul is? Wanting to be a self-moving soul might be something they need to rethink [b:2r2bosfp][u:2r2bosfp]unless[/u:2r2bosfp] [/b:2r2bosfp]they have the chance of getting away with their initial premise by shutting the world from those other agencies. view post


posted 19 Apr 2006, 20:04 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Damnation must exist as a reality outside of religous constructs. We likely will never know all of the metaphysical details, Scott has stated his reasons why. As to whether Sorcerors are inherently Damned, and if Kelhus' new revelations actually mean anything remains to be seen, if we will ever have it revealed to us that is. view post


posted 19 Apr 2006, 22:04 by n0g0d, Candidate

[quote="Entropic_existence":22h44l2h]Damnation must exist as a reality outside of religous constructs. We likely will never know all of the metaphysical details, Scott has stated his reasons why. As to whether Sorcerors are inherently Damned, and if Kelhus' new revelations actually mean anything remains to be seen, if we will ever have it revealed to us that is.[/quote:22h44l2h] Also the reason why Kellhus kills his dad is because he[b:22h44l2h] IS Dunayn. [/b:22h44l2h] The Dunayn and Consult are his enemies. Moenghus even if given all the facts Kellhus holds. If Moenghus opens his mind and "understands" all the new information Kellhus got through the TTT. Or rather all the information the TTT is making him believe, he will simply side with Consult and want to shut the world off. Hence damnation IS a wild card. [u:22h44l2h]Then again there is the possibility that it is a wildcard at least for humans,[/u:22h44l2h] even if they are Anasurimbur. The World seems to control Kellhus. Seraswatha was also a Shaman.[u:22h44l2h] The world was again talking through him when he made the Anasurimbur prophecy.[/u:22h44l2h] The World protects itself I suppose. Kellhus's dad wanted to fight the Consult. Yet Kellhus killed him because he knew that given the right amount of information, Moenghus would side with the Consult as this would be his [b:22h44l2h]cultural shortest and only path....[/b:22h44l2h] Finally I grasp the Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle. :P I think Kellhus the Dunayn's[b:22h44l2h] biggest [/b:22h44l2h]enemy ever! Kellhus seems to be the avatar of all those outside agencies. Ironic he uses Dunayn skills/Sorcery to carry his deeds when he stands for the opposite. view post


posted 20 Apr 2006, 00:04 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Umm how exactly is Seswatha a shaman? A shaman is a Prophet who practices sorcery Seswatha was just the Grandmaster of the Sohonc not a prophet at all. view post


posted 20 Apr 2006, 03:04 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

To be fair he made one Prophecy, but being a Prophet is much more than this. No Shamans have existed, or at least been declared Shamans, since the Chronicles of the Tusk so yea WP Seswatha was not a Shaman :) Anyway as I said Damnation must exist as seperate reality from religious belief and convention. Yes Kelhus figures that the Dunyain would ultimately side with the Consult and I theorized that this is because Damnation is a wild card for various reasons. I'm not really sure where you are going with the rest of it n0g0d, you took a few snippets of what I said and then argued it back to me and went in a few different directions in your first post. view post


posted 20 Apr 2006, 11:04 by n0g0d, Candidate

[quote="Entropic_existence":1w9rdb0b]To be fair he made one Prophecy, but being a Prophet is much more than this. No Shamans have existed, or at least been declared Shamans, since the Chronicles of the Tusk so yea WP Seswatha was not a Shaman :) Anyway as I said Damnation must exist as seperate reality from religious belief and convention. Yes Kelhus figures that the Dunyain would ultimately side with the Consult and I theorized that this is because Damnation is a wild card for various reasons. I'm not really sure where you are going with the rest of it n0g0d, you took a few snippets of what I said and then argued it back to me and went in a few different directions in your first post.[/quote:1w9rdb0b] Yes I think I tend to do that....but it is not intentional. Kellhus to Achiaman:TTT Pg 216, "Because you're a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me. Akka. The old revelations have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Shortest Path, and I say that you are[i:1w9rdb0b] not damned[/i:1w9rdb0b]." According to what Kellhus says, he understands and can predict outside agencies. This could mean that: 1/ It is a lie. He did say he was God but then he is very limited.(just before)-paraphrasing Moenghus: TTT has outgrown its vessel maybe. 2/ It is true, but understanding those agencies will be impossible for the Dunayn. Hence they are a threat. But I understand your point that damnation is [u:1w9rdb0b]not simply a question[/u:1w9rdb0b] of: not have sex too much/ not practise sorcery too much and so on. Its a concept that cannot be simplified to DOs and DONTs, like the Quran. Kellhus may not grasp all those concepts himself. But he seems to be fed thoughts from God. That might be where escapes the [u:1w9rdb0b]Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle. [/u:1w9rdb0b] God is trying to protect itself. It is[b:1w9rdb0b] bribing ppl with an escape from damnation [/b:1w9rdb0b] to prevent the Holocaust which may harm it?Consult want to Prevent the natural cycle of things-life cycle of God will be altered.... Honestly, I think I am siding with the[b:1w9rdb0b]Mog-Pharau[/b:1w9rdb0b] though I don't know if God will be killed permanently or it is something that lasts just for some time. God seems like a being that is parasitical to our souls.(Like the Matrix-where the matrix is a living being as opposed to being divided into several entities-architect so on) Dunayn want to break free. Can the Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle be overcome by the gift of Prophecy? [u:1w9rdb0b]That would still be against Dunayn goal of being self moving souls.[/u:1w9rdb0b] view post


posted 20 Apr 2006, 12:04 by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

[quote="Warrior-Poet":38h02qci]Umm how exactly is Seswatha a shaman? A shaman is a Prophet who practices sorcery Seswatha was just the Grandmaster of the Sohonc not a prophet at all.[/quote:38h02qci] He meant Celmomas. Also... [quote="n0g0d":38h02qci]"Because you're a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me. Akka. The old revelations have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Shortest Path, and I say that you are not damned." [/quote:38h02qci] Kellhus was just lying when he said this. I mean... it's not really a lie, it's just deceiving. Kellhus is suggesting that HE is the reason Akka is not damned as supposed to the fact that Akka wasn't damned to begin with; sorcery does not a sinner make. view post


posted 20 Apr 2006, 13:04 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Yea, I'm hesitant to take Kelhus claims that change the nature of Inrithism at face value, a rather large portion of it seems to have been done simply for manipulative purposes. Maybe it is true that Sorcery isn't an inherent Damnation (people can be wrong), we don't really know. That and no matter what Kelhus says you still can't be sure. Which is why there is uncertainty. You have to remember that Kelhus is the main protagonist, and he appears to have some genuine stuff going on (we know the halos are genuine, or appear to be unless Kelhus is buying in to his own myth) but he isn't a saint by any stretch. He tells people what they want or need to hear. Yea he has some real logical/intellectual insight, the No-God has spoken to him, we've seen some odd occurances with the TTT, but you never know if what he says is true or not. view post


  •  

The Three Seas Forum archives are hosted and maintained courtesy of Jack Brown.